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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 21, 2021 14:55:18 GMT -5
It also means pony up for the infrastructure to make these things happen. Face-to-face education isn't sustainable in the rural parts of our state. But, you can't look to technology for help. Because no one makes a profit extended broadband to places where you blink, and you miss the gas station-which indicates that you've left town. I think the answer is broader than that. It's not even big ideas. You have half of the country firmly believing that we should decide on some things for the greater good. You have the other half of the country that insists that we shouldn't care about society as a whole, we should focus on the individuals within the society.
The Dems can push for good internet access for everyone. Fiscal conservative repubs can't, because that's gov't spending more money. Honestly, Republicans could convince a lot of their supporters that investing in people, especially in good "hard working" skills would be a great thing for America. The problem is, they would have to piss off their BIG donors. That money has to come from somewhere. D's have giant wealthy that rule the roost, too. They haven't gotten a great foothold in those programs either. As far as remote learning - even if we do get broadband to every home in America. Do you want an electrician that learned over Zoom? Trades traditionally use apprenticeships, because you have to manipulate something with your hands - and that isn't easy to learn via reading or watching someone. At some point in your education you have to stand next to someone and work it together. Same with surgeons. Online education can help, but it won't solve everything. Maybe create schools in certain areas that have a small dorm and a few large empty classrooms, and rotate programs through. Next question - maybe countrygirl can answer - one of the anti-immigration tropes is that tradesman have flooded in and reduced the value of those skills. That seems to be a cyclical argument, as I heard it a lot after the 2008 housing crash, but now hear finding help in the construction industry is impossible and everyone raised their prices. Is there a glut or excess in the supply here? The last few years, we have had a lot of work done on this house (roof, steps, residing, painting and now foundation work when the county releases the permits). I can't talk about the foundation work (yet, as I've not seen the workmen) but the others were largely immigrants. I'm not sure if they were legal or illegal, assuming legal because all of the companies he uses are insured and bonded. However, one of the things I have noticed is that the guy we have to do our tile work has been looking for an apprentice for ages. When he did the last work on our floor, he was complaining that he had more work than he could handle and he was looking. This was several years ago, and he is STILL looking for someone! If I was just starting out, with joints that didn't creak, I'd probably be all over this as this guy is a master at tiling and is in very high demand, learning from him would be incredible as his standards were high. I know we paid him over $100/hour (and yes, the job he did was worth this). Good tradesmen who do meticulous work seem to always be in high demand.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 21, 2021 16:03:10 GMT -5
I agree with you. There have been no proposals from the conservative side on this, I guess the tax cuts were supposed to help but as we know “trickle down economics” well, it just doesn’t trickle. In my mega corp, corporate taxes, was not a big decision maker in whether we invest or build and create more jobs. Actually if we were expected to have 12% return on a project before then now we should have a 14% because we pay less taxes. Giving tax breaks to corporations does not create more jobs, you know what creates more jobs? Demand. What creates demand? People having money in their pockets. If you provide to low earners they will spend it at a higher rate than a high earner. Me? I would have just saved it. Conservatives have had ideas in the past, but they generally get slandered and lambasted for it. Can you tell me a few of the good ones? I am really trying to approach things from a moderate or balanced perspective, but I am not getting much good policy information (current or historical) from the GOP. Usually I hear their ideas during campaign season, but that wasn't the tone this year - no presidential primary debates, no coherent oft-repeated stump speech by Trump, and not much from my GOP Senate candidate that I could reconcile. (She would say four things, which were contradictory, and I had noone to translate. They all say contradictory stuff. But usually there is someone who breaks it down for me.) So, I am really interested to hear something other than the Dem's platform.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jan 21, 2021 16:28:44 GMT -5
I am quite happy with the small business tax reform Trump ‘s tax plan put in 20% of profits from small business isn’t taxed (LLC, sole proprietor). These small businesses are pass through, the profit from the business is taxed at your income rate. Hoping Biden keeps this as so many small businesses- restaurants, cleaners, etc have been damaged by the pandemic
Also the increase in standard deductions has allowed many people to not itemize and make tax returns simpler and easier to not use paid like HR Block [br Also decreasing regulations that make building roads, and infrastructure so very time consuming and expensive. Think there was something passed that limited the review process to 2 years?
Think Ivanka pushed Voc Ed training? and child care? But don’t know much about actual changes More voc ed would really have helped many of the folks now in minimum wage jobs get on the way to good paying and needed jobs- plumbers, electricians, building and repairing robot s in factories etc Too many kids start college take out loans and drop out w/o degree cause they’re unsuited for academics. Germany has great apprenticeship programs but don’t seem to really succeed in the US unfortunately
Normalizing Israeli and UAE, Bahrain, Somali relations instead of just same old same old Palestine/Israeli peace talks. Moved US embassy to Jerusalem instead of just talking about it for the past many years US is now energy independent instead of relying on SA ‘Encouraging’ NATO allies to pay up instead of most of budget paid by US
Putting China on notice that taking intellectual property from US companies no longer routine if the US company wants to do business in China Normalization of tariffs on cars between EU and US, Trump is an ass but some good policy shouldn’t be dumped because of his character disaster
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 22, 2021 14:46:57 GMT -5
Normalizing Israeli and UAE, Bahrain, Somali relations instead of just same old same old Palestine/Israeli peace talks. Moved US embassy to Jerusalem instead of just talking about it for the past many years US is now energy independent instead of relying on SA ‘Encouraging’ NATO allies to pay up instead of most of budget paid by US Putting China on notice that taking intellectual property from US companies no longer routine if the US company wants to do business in China Normalization of tariffs on cars between EU and US, Trump is an ass but some good policy shouldn’t be dumped because of his character disaster How do these help the working class or lower middle class?
If you can't afford to buy a car, normalizing tariffs on cars don't do squat. Energy dependence isn't as much of a thing either...if you walk or bike because that's what you can afford. I mean, sure I suppose that you could argue, that landscaping companies might be able to afford to hire a couple of extra folks to work over the summers because the cost of fuel to get to jobs and to work machinery is stable/lower. But. Don't fool yourself, those folks are making like $10-15/hour. That doesn't scream totally able to get to upper middle class with just a little elbow grease to me...
The low income folks I worked with..they didn't give a crap about NATO and normalizing Israel. I think that's the stuff reserved for folks who are haves.....not that have nots...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 22, 2021 15:58:19 GMT -5
I am quite happy with the small business tax reform Trump ‘s tax plan put in 20% of profits from small business isn’t taxed (LLC, sole proprietor). These small businesses are pass through, the profit from the business is taxed at your income rate. Hoping Biden keeps this as so many small businesses- restaurants, cleaners, etc have been damaged by the pandemic Also the increase in standard deductions has allowed many people to not itemize and make tax returns simpler and easier to not use paid like HR Block [br Also decreasing regulations that make building roads, and infrastructure so very time consuming and expensive. Think there was something passed that limited the review process to 2 years? Think Ivanka pushed Voc Ed training? and child care? But don’t know much about actual changes More voc ed would really have helped many of the folks now in minimum wage jobs get on the way to good paying and needed jobs- plumbers, electricians, building and repairing robot s in factories etc Too many kids start college take out loans and drop out w/o degree cause they’re unsuited for academics. Germany has great apprenticeship programs but don’t seem to really succeed in the US unfortunately Normalizing Israeli and UAE, Bahrain, Somali relations instead of just same old same old Palestine/Israeli peace talks. Moved US embassy to Jerusalem instead of just talking about it for the past many years US is now energy independent instead of relying on SA ‘Encouraging’ NATO allies to pay up instead of most of budget paid by US Putting China on notice that taking intellectual property from US companies no longer routine if the US company wants to do business in China Normalization of tariffs on cars between EU and US, Trump is an ass but some good policy shouldn’t be dumped because of his character disaster I was also wondering how these will decrease the economic inequality, which is a primary concern of mine. Some of these may create jobs, but there is no guarantee that those jobs will be decent paying. Small business tax breaks and infrastructure may be the best chance at creating jobs, but some of those are notoriously low paying. Ivanka may have made a speech or two supporting vo tech and child care, but the GOP did not even consider a single program to deal with it. Not sure why. Maybe there was only a thought, without an actual proposal, or maybe Ivanka was not aligned with the party on that one. One republican does not a party make. Simplifying taxes may actually decrease income for tax preparation services. Isreal relations has no effect on income for the average worker. The tariffs are notoriously hard on the US public, no matter what Trump claims. The whole China thing is sticky, because they do steal our technology and we do have to figure that out, but messing around with relations with the second largest (and rapidly growing) economy, which we have intertwined ourselves - it isn’t a simple fix. Wealth inequality is a very difficult problem, and maybe a few things you listed could impact it, but the majority of the great successes of the Trump presidency don't do squat for the average Joe.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 22, 2021 17:36:39 GMT -5
Training should be done in high school. I live in a densely populated area. The freshman class at the two local HS (within 5 miles of each other) is usually over 1K kids (so there's close to 4K kids). The suburbs around me have slightly lower numbers. I know my area can support having public schools with alot of class rooms and the ability to offer classes in a variety of non "reading/writing/arithmetic" subjects. I hear out there were the concrete and steel ends - that some areas have fewer than 500 HS students. Some places only have 100 HS students. How are places with few kids going to provide all the various types of "training" that would be needed to their handful of students? How much higher can taxes go out in rural areas? They seem to be overtaxed as it is (according to politicians). If there are private schools - will the wealthy really want their kids to be rubbing elbows with kids who will someday be fixing their toilets and installing the lighting in their expensive new kitchens and bathrooms? How will the "regular" kids afford going to the Private school?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jan 22, 2021 17:45:55 GMT -5
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 22, 2021 17:58:20 GMT -5
More voc ed would really have helped many of the folks now in minimum wage jobs get on the way to good paying and needed jobs- plumbers, electricians, building and repairing robot s in factories etc Too many kids start college take out loans and drop out w/o degree cause they’re unsuited for academics. Germany has great apprenticeship programs but don’t seem to really succeed in the US unfortunately I'm pretty sure vocational education requires some schooling and therefore some loans/college education. I'm skeptical that a newly minted HS student has no need of additional 'book learning' or writing skills or higher math skills and can waltz right into being an apprentice or journey man trade worker. (I'm pretty sure my "wait, he can read " sibling had to take classes, pass tests, and get certifications over the course of his non-white collar work career. I think he's got some degree that amounts to an associates. I know he's got a mile high pile of certifications and often went to training on the job (that involved reading, writing, and math) during the course of his career. He's the only one of use that doesn't have a 4 year (or higher) degree along with a couple of other degrees. ) I admit - I never really got why someone in a trade was looked down on. They had to have just as much "learning" or more than some white collar jobs.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 22, 2021 18:15:51 GMT -5
Also the increase in standard deductions has allowed many people to not itemize and make tax returns simpler and easier to not use paid like HR Block. You might want to change that it helped people who didn't have enough items to itemize. The majority (like 80% of people) of Americans take the standard deduction. Raising the standard deduction did nothing for me. In the past with deduction I was close to the new standard deduction. It really helped my renters. Didn't help me at all. I'm pretty sure it didn't make it "much easier" to fill out one's taxes. I know plenty of people who could just fill out the EZ form but who still paid to have someone fill it out for them. I'm still ok with the change and the change to withholding. It's suppose to lower one's refund at tax time. That's a good thing. I'm for it. You might want to focus on that part of it - the government collecting less money and redistributing back less.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jan 22, 2021 19:30:19 GMT -5
Training should be done in high school. I live in a densely populated area. The freshman class at the two local HS (within 5 miles of each other) is usually over 1K kids (so there's close to 4K kids). The suburbs around me have slightly lower numbers. I know my area can support having public schools with alot of class rooms and the ability to offer classes in a variety of non "reading/writing/arithmetic" subjects. I hear out there were the concrete and steel ends - that some areas have fewer than 500 HS students. Some places only have 100 HS students. How are places with few kids going to provide all the various types of "training" that would be needed to their handful of students? How much higher can taxes go out in rural areas? They seem to be overtaxed as it is (according to politicians). If there are private schools - will the wealthy really want their kids to be rubbing elbows with kids who will someday be fixing their toilets and installing the lighting in their expensive new kitchens and bathrooms? How will the "regular" kids afford going to the Private school? Many vocational schools are county’ and public so all the high schools in the county feed into the vocational school. Some courses have kids take classes in morning (math English etc) and travel to voc Ed in afternoon Not just plumbing, mechanics but cooking, health care Doubt kids in private HS would be going to voc Ed
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jan 22, 2021 19:38:14 GMT -5
Also the increase in standard deductions has allowed many people to not itemize and make tax returns simpler and easier to not use paid like HR Block. You might want to change that it helped people who didn't have enough items to itemize. The majority (like 80% of people) of Americans take the standard deduction. Raising the standard deduction did nothing for me. In the past with deduction I was close to the new standard deduction. It really helped my renters. Didn't help me at all. I'm pretty sure it didn't make it "much easier" to fill out one's taxes. I know plenty of people who could just fill out the EZ form but who still paid to have someone fill it out for them. I'm still ok with the change and the change to withholding. It's suppose to lower one's refund at tax time. That's a good thing. I'm for it. You might want to focus on that part of it - the government collecting less money and redistributing back less. I was very close to the amount of my itemized deductions, so it really didn't help me. Places like H & R Block and Jackson Hewitt were as busy as ever because poor people want their money NOW, based on their last pay stub. They only get a % and pay interest until the money arrives, but to them, it's worth paying someone to prepare it. The tax cut mostly favored the upper class. It might have saved me $100.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Jan 22, 2021 20:08:20 GMT -5
The tax cuts removed all the property tax deductions for CA and NY and we are paying even more than usual. I dont mind paying if it helps maintain a lot of stuff, but the whole thing was a game and did not truly help people who needed it.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jan 22, 2021 20:31:57 GMT -5
I haven't been able to itemize for maybe 15 years even with a big mortgage. The loss of the personal exemptions for myself and the kids was more than the gain in standard deduction for me, so that didn't help me at all. The doubling of the child tax credit from 1K to 2K was supposed to offset for the loss of exemptions, but they only made $1400 of it refundable, so again it was pretty much a break even.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 22, 2021 22:20:51 GMT -5
Training should be done in high school. I live in a densely populated area. The freshman class at the two local HS (within 5 miles of each other) is usually over 1K kids (so there's close to 4K kids). The suburbs around me have slightly lower numbers. I know my area can support having public schools with alot of class rooms and the ability to offer classes in a variety of non "reading/writing/arithmetic" subjects. I hear out there were the concrete and steel ends - that some areas have fewer than 500 HS students. Some places only have 100 HS students. How are places with few kids going to provide all the various types of "training" that would be needed to their handful of students? How much higher can taxes go out in rural areas? They seem to be overtaxed as it is (according to politicians). If there are private schools - will the wealthy really want their kids to be rubbing elbows with kids who will someday be fixing their toilets and installing the lighting in their expensive new kitchens and bathrooms? How will the "regular" kids afford going to the Private school? Depends on the family - plus, if the school is in an economically diverse area, the kid is probably already mixing with future plumbers. My kid goes to a school, that I call a "dual school" - there are lots of college track/AP students, and then a lot of students who are not college bound. They have some vocational, but not full on trades. I (and other parents like me) think it is good for our kids - grounds them, but they are still getting a good education. My parents are totally freaked out by it, and I went to a wealthy high school. The solution is open enrollment - if there are half a dozen schools available, you pick the one that fits you the best. Around here, we have schools that focus on computer programming, schools that focus on arts, schools that focus on medical - and turn out pre-med students and kids that can immediately be nurse assistants, or can start at a nursing program with credits, there are general STEM schools, etc. Every school doesn't have to offer every program - if you are in a heavily populated area, and have access to transportation.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 26, 2021 12:29:19 GMT -5
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 26, 2021 13:10:58 GMT -5
This does not surprise me. And little of that money will 'trickle down' to help the rest of Americans.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 26, 2021 13:12:22 GMT -5
I live in a densely populated area. The freshman class at the two local HS (within 5 miles of each other) is usually over 1K kids (so there's close to 4K kids). The suburbs around me have slightly lower numbers. I know my area can support having public schools with alot of class rooms and the ability to offer classes in a variety of non "reading/writing/arithmetic" subjects. I hear out there were the concrete and steel ends - that some areas have fewer than 500 HS students. Some places only have 100 HS students. How are places with few kids going to provide all the various types of "training" that would be needed to their handful of students? How much higher can taxes go out in rural areas? They seem to be overtaxed as it is (according to politicians). If there are private schools - will the wealthy really want their kids to be rubbing elbows with kids who will someday be fixing their toilets and installing the lighting in their expensive new kitchens and bathrooms? How will the "regular" kids afford going to the Private school? Many vocational schools are county’ and public so all the high schools in the county feed into the vocational school. Some courses have kids take classes in morning (math English etc) and travel to voc Ed in afternoon Not just plumbing, mechanics but cooking, health care Doubt kids in private HS would be going to voc Ed Do low income kids get "railroaded" into the vocation skills programs - or do the Private Schools "scholarship" in the smart poor kids?
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jan 26, 2021 14:08:43 GMT -5
Many vocational schools are county’ and public so all the high schools in the county feed into the vocational school. Some courses have kids take classes in morning (math English etc) and travel to voc Ed in afternoon Not just plumbing, mechanics but cooking, health care Doubt kids in private HS would be going to voc Ed Do low income kids get "railroaded" into the vocation skills programs - or do the Private Schools "scholarship" in the smart poor kids? No low income kids don’t get ‘railroaded’. The voc Ed schools Are treated like just another specialized magnet school. These schools offer for example the medical speciality schools courses in being a CRNA and kids who want to be doctors or nurses. Trying to break the old links between low income and limited careers. Plumbers and electricians are well paid and skilled. Both the kids and society benefit. Why not offer private school scholarships to low income smart kids? I don’t get your issues with this
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 26, 2021 14:48:31 GMT -5
Low income kids are already railroaded away from success. They have to work 5 times as hard to get opportunities that rich kids take for granted.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 26, 2021 17:53:46 GMT -5
Do low income kids get "railroaded" into the vocation skills programs - or do the Private Schools "scholarship" in the smart poor kids? No low income kids don’t get ‘railroaded’. The voc Ed schools Are treated like just another specialized magnet school. These schools offer for example the medical speciality schools courses in being a CRNA and kids who want to be doctors or nurses. Trying to break the old links between low income and limited careers. Plumbers and electricians are well paid and skilled. Both the kids and society benefit. Why not offer private school scholarships to low income smart kids? I don’t get your issues with this My issue is it's difficult to implement (can you say socialism? And the rich don't like paying for stuff they don't get to use or have.) The property taxes in low income or middle income areas aren't enough to pay for public school systems. And that's were the Federal Government comes in - GIVING money to poor people. And I'm pretty sure most wealthy people hate paying taxes - especially when they do not directly benefit from those tax dollars. That's my issue with it. Who pays for it? The poor can't pay for it. The rich will do whatever they can to not pay for it (that whole school voucher thing so rich people don't have to pay to support the public school system their kids don't use but sure they'll help "worthy" poor kids get into their private schools - but NOT all the kids). And how much more money can the Federal Government print? Just look at the States that get the most aide from the Federal Government... Do you think they could implement this without monetary help?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jan 26, 2021 17:59:43 GMT -5
This is one reason why most on the right have given up on the idea of government programs helping people get out of poverty. For decades, all we heard was that anyone who didn't want to do things the left's way was an evil person. It's too bad. There is a lot that government could do to help people that would be cheaper in the long run. What are those things? For starters, basic health care
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jan 26, 2021 18:04:19 GMT -5
For starters, basic health care Have you seen a republican plan to supply that?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 27, 2021 9:30:39 GMT -5
No low income kids don’t get ‘railroaded’. The voc Ed schools Are treated like just another specialized magnet school. These schools offer for example the medical speciality schools courses in being a CRNA and kids who want to be doctors or nurses. Trying to break the old links between low income and limited careers. Plumbers and electricians are well paid and skilled. Both the kids and society benefit. Why not offer private school scholarships to low income smart kids? I don’t get your issues with this My issue is it's difficult to implement (can you say socialism? And the rich don't like paying for stuff they don't get to use or have.) The property taxes in low income or middle income areas aren't enough to pay for public school systems. And that's were the Federal Government comes in - GIVING money to poor people. And I'm pretty sure most wealthy people hate paying taxes - especially when they do not directly benefit from those tax dollars. That's my issue with it. Who pays for it? The poor can't pay for it. The rich will do whatever they can to not pay for it (that whole school voucher thing so rich people don't have to pay to support the public school system their kids don't use but sure they'll help "worthy" poor kids get into their private schools - but NOT all the kids). And how much more money can the Federal Government print? Just look at the States that get the most aide from the Federal Government... Do you think they could implement this without monetary help? This is why we need to enroll employers - especially those that need certain kinds of labor. If we can convince companies we will provide them with a steady, trained workforce, they can pick up some of the cost. And, using the trickle economics theory - except more functional, once those employees have a decent wage, their money will be pumped into the economic machine, creating funding through taxes that can be used as additional support for the programs. I still think we should charge back employers like Amazon and Walmart for any employee they have that is on public programs. If they are working some minimum number of hours and still need medicaid, food stamps, section 8 and other support programs, maybe those companies aren't as profitable as they appear. We are subsidizing them so Bezos can buy another private plane, and then wondering why our system doesn't work. Uh-doi.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jan 27, 2021 10:21:19 GMT -5
My issue is it's difficult to implement (can you say socialism? And the rich don't like paying for stuff they don't get to use or have.) The property taxes in low income or middle income areas aren't enough to pay for public school systems. And that's were the Federal Government comes in - GIVING money to poor people. And I'm pretty sure most wealthy people hate paying taxes - especially when they do not directly benefit from those tax dollars. That's my issue with it. Who pays for it? The poor can't pay for it. The rich will do whatever they can to not pay for it (that whole school voucher thing so rich people don't have to pay to support the public school system their kids don't use but sure they'll help "worthy" poor kids get into their private schools - but NOT all the kids). And how much more money can the Federal Government print? Just look at the States that get the most aide from the Federal Government... Do you think they could implement this without monetary help? This is why we need to enroll employers - especially those that need certain kinds of labor. If we can convince companies we will provide them with a steady, trained workforce, they can pick up some of the cost. And, using the trickle economics theory - except more functional, once those employees have a decent wage, their money will be pumped into the economic machine, creating funding through taxes that can be used as additional support for the programs. I still think we should charge back employers like Amazon and Walmart for any employee they have that is on public programs. If they are working some minimum number of hours and still need medicaid, food stamps, section 8 and other support programs, maybe those companies aren't as profitable as they appear. We are subsidizing them so Bezos can buy another private plane, and then wondering why our system doesn't work. Uh-doi. I completely agree that the taxpayers are subsidizing large corporations. I do wonder, however, what proportion of their employees are receiving support because of children. I mean, does an adult full-time employee of Walmart make so little that he or she qualifies for food stamps and Medicaid? That's different than a single mother of three (with a deadbeat ex who doesn't pay child support) working full-time at Walmart and needing government assistance. Is it the responsibility of corporations to pay enough to an individual employee that they don't require welfare or should they pay enough that a single employee can support a family on that wage? That's not even taking into account companies that schedule workers just under the full-time hourly rate to avoid paying benefits.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 27, 2021 10:38:55 GMT -5
Not pandemic specific but on the general topic: CEO compensation surged 14% in 2019 to $21.3 millionIn 2019, the ratio of CEO-to-typical-worker compensation was 320-to-1 under the realized measure of CEO pay; that is up from 293-to-1 in 2018 and a big increase from 21-to-1 in 1965 and 61-to-1 in 1989. I think this is a very important factor. Who is it that has a measure of control over compensation structure and might reverse this trend if they chose?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jan 27, 2021 11:15:27 GMT -5
But they can't afford to pay $15 an hour to employees.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jan 27, 2021 11:25:07 GMT -5
But they can't afford to pay $15 an hour to employees. Those big places definitely can. I do worry about the small business owners. My cousin owns a fast food place (not a franchise) with maybe 10-20 employees...nearly all high school and college kids...and he's worried about how much he's going to have to increase prices to cover the additional wages.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 27, 2021 12:00:30 GMT -5
But they can't afford to pay $15 an hour to employees. Those big places definitely can. I do worry about the small business owners. My cousin owns a fast food place (not a franchise) with maybe 10-20 employees...nearly all high school and college kids...and he's worried about how much he's going to have to increase prices to cover the additional wages. and I doubt your cousin and other small business owners are making 320 times the average wage of employees. Now if those big places distributed income more widely, the price increases at places like fast food joints would be more acceptable to their customers.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Jan 27, 2021 12:26:08 GMT -5
How big is big, though? Is it 100x the average wage? 200x? Do we try to determine it by number of employees? It's easy to say if the big places distributed more, price increases would be more acceptable. But what if you have a small LLC where the owner makes 350x what they pay their lowest paid employee. Does that count as someone who should be paying more salary? Do his struggles with getting the business up and running just disappear because he's successful? I know there's an answer somewhere, but I don't know what it is.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 27, 2021 13:17:18 GMT -5
How big is big, though? Is it 100x the average wage? 200x? Do we try to determine it by number of employees? It's easy to say if the big places distributed more, price increases would be more acceptable. But what if you have a small LLC where the owner makes 350x what they pay their lowest paid employee. Does that count as someone who should be paying more salary? Do his struggles with getting the business up and running just disappear because he's successful? I know there's an answer somewhere, but I don't know what it is.
A question is to what degree success was/is a "he" thing and to what degree it was/is a "we" thing involving employees. Also in my mind there is a difference between an owner who started and built a business and a MBA who worked their way up to CEO. I like to equate this issue to an all-you-can-eat buffet. Theoretically a person who paid to be in line could load everything onto their plate if they are strong and skilled enough. I think, for the most part, people don't just pile on as much food as they can. In this circumstance, I do believe people show restraint and on some level think about those who follow them. My theory of the impact of the dependence of officers on enlisted service members for survival and how that translated back to the civilian workplace after WWII I think is relevant in the difference between 1965 numbers and those in current years. That 25-30 year old officer coming out of the war was the 45-50 year old senior management of 1965 and actually knew the people on the production line. Few in senior management these days ever spent a minute with their work force, let alone shared a foxhole with bullets coming at them. Makes it a lot easier to think you are 320 times more important to the success of an operation.
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