lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Dec 31, 2020 15:27:26 GMT -5
DH is waiting for the markets to close to calculate our net worth.
I know it has gone up an insane amount this year. It makes me think about how this pandemic has exacerbated the inequities in our society. The rich are getting richer and the poor worse off. Big business vs struggling small businesses.
Working women vs working men (many more women are quitting to stay home than men). Service jobs vs those who can work from home. Your thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 16:51:03 GMT -5
I'm very concerned about what it's done to school kids. Some will be just fine. My grandchildren are home-schooled and always have been. The girls like the curriculum so much that they sometimes ASK if they can get on the computer and complete a unit. We encourage learning, of course-. their parents, the other grandparents and me. Two great-nieces have a SAHM who has a teaching degree. Two others have a SAHM with an MBA. A great-nephew is being home-schooled partly by his grandmother, who's a retired doctor.
Compare that with kids whose parents are trying to keep them plopped in front of endless Zoom sessions while they themselves are trying to make a living at home, or the ones whose parents MUST work outside the home and send them to school but constantly worry about COVID or the ones who just aren't equipped to teach their kids, due to lack of English fluency, lack of tech skills or more serious issues such as addiction. It's been a cluster-F and only the strong and motivated will survive.
As for "the rich get richer", anyone with savings or a pension plan should have come out better this year. (The pension payments are fixed but the substantial investment returns may make the fund more likely to make the promised payments in the future.) Yet, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, only about half of workers who have access to a 401(k) actually contribute. I don't get it. In my first job back in the Dark Ages I started out by saving 2% of my pay in the company stock purchase plan even though there were no tax advantages. If they gained nothing from the stock market rally because they couldn't do without 2% (before taxes) of their pay, that was their decision.
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jd2005
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Post by jd2005 on Dec 31, 2020 16:53:12 GMT -5
From an poor vs. rich point of view, I remember when I was starting out and didn't have "what I felt" was like 2 pennies to rub together. I didn't see how I could invest in my 401k. Then, I started a job that had automatic investment at 3%, and guess what? I didn't even notice it. My money still made it to the end of the month (and this was making about $35k/yr). I think education is the way to go. Show folks that the turtle wins the race every time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2020 17:02:28 GMT -5
I actually don't have a lot of faith in the current highs in the stock market. I've watch it go up, and I've watched it go down. Plus, the way the government is spending money, inflation has already start to occur.
So I don't think there's a bigger gap necessarily between the rich and the poor. I think it is more between the haves and the have-nots. You don't have to be rich to be a have, and you don't have to be poor to be a have-not.
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buster
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Post by buster on Jan 1, 2021 3:36:28 GMT -5
Just ran the numbers and networth increased by ~15% this year, and that's even when I took a 10% pay cut for half the year and no merit increases. My company has been hit very hard by the pandemic this year, but we're expecting to make a decent recovery once schools and businesses open back up. As a "have", it was a very good year from a financial standpoint.
I also know many people who lost their jobs and had to use up what little savings they had. It has definitely been a hard year for the "have nots". I really wish the $2k stimulus would get approved. My family exceeds the financial cutoffs (we don't need it anyways), but I know there are many people in need to could really use it right about now.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jan 1, 2021 10:08:20 GMT -5
It feels a lot like 1982-83, but without the double digit interest rates. Those of us who were around when punk music was new can remember another time with a large divide. Ronald Regan trickled down on us then too. Manufacturing jobs were disappearing, the auto industry was in shambles, farm prices were in the tank and college graduates were flipping burgers.
We were not in a good place in 1983. No job, no car and a fresh degree. Lots of debt with a high interest rate.
We are in a much better place today. The pandemic has not negatively affected our finances or our family's careers and for that I am very thankful. I do feel that many of today's "needs" were categorized as "wants" when I look through my 1983 time machine lens.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jan 1, 2021 14:20:18 GMT -5
Yet, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, only about half of workers who have access to a 401(k) actually contribute. I don't get it. I don't get it either, but I'm friends with more than one person that have had an unending stream of excuses as to why they can't contribute for DECADES now. My NW is up 16% the past year. 156K. Mind boggling to me.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 1, 2021 14:47:40 GMT -5
Yet, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, only about half of workers who have access to a 401(k) actually contribute. I don't get it. I don't get it either, but I'm friends with more than one person that have had an unending stream of excuses as to why they can't contribute for DECADES now. My NW is up 16% the past year. 156K. Mind boggling to me. Me neither. When I was working at UK, the dishwasher came to me and showed me what HR sent to her. There was mandatory enrollment into the 403b, you contribute 5%, and it gets matched monthly by 10%. If you do not enroll, you get let go. I’m not sure I agree with this premise, but I do understand why it exists, especially after this experience. After 2 hours talking to her, running the math to explain what her 5% does to her taxes, I finally got her to understand the tremendous benefit she was ready to throw away. I was just looking at my Roth. It’s up 16% too. Crazy!
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 1, 2021 15:00:48 GMT -5
I haven't "closed" the personal finance books for 2020 yet - but a quick review of my finances shows that I am 20K away from my FIRE goal number - I didn't expect to hit my FIRE goal number until early 2022 best case/late 2022 mediocre case (worse case is I never hit the number). I may hit that goal number by the end of first quarter 2021. I live in a densely populated Urban Area. Most of my family/friends work in "back office" white collar jobs for middle (100+ employees) to Corporate America employers or in a Trade or in Education or a Government job. The only relatives/friends who aren't employed are the ones who routinely cycle thru employment/unemployment (even in the years before Covid19) so not working for some period of time is 'typical' for them. They all have spouses/partners who are employed with healthcare benefits. I think having gone thru the catastrophic job losses of the Great Recession has caused them all to adhere to a diversify income streams and have at least one person in a more 'recession proof' career with healthcare benefits. So, basically, it's looking like nearly everyone I know has survived 2020 and probably is better for it. We are all 'haves'. We might not have become millionaires - but we are all still making headway on our life journeys (buying a house, getting married, having babies). That's not to say I don't see my neighbors struggling - they may have multiple grade school aged kids AND parents trying to work from home (or in some cases a parent out of work taking up the unfamiliar role of tending the kids and house). I'm kind of happy that I spent less in 2020. A personal observation has been that for the past 3to 4 years that even though there supposedly is "no inflation" that my base cost of living has consumed any increase in income from my job that I received. I've noticed that the amount I have available for 'discretionary' spending has gone down (well, except for 2020 when I spent less on some "fixed" expenses). I'm not all that ambitious at work and pretty much just take whatever raise they will give me but I'm confident I'm fairly paid (even if it's a little bit on the low side I'm not killing myself at work doing my job). I haven't job hopped for a raise in income in 25 years. I've always been able to 'save more', cover fixed expenses, and have some fun money left over every year with "typical increases in pay" until recently. What I have noticed in the last 3 to 4 years is that my Big Pile O' Saved Up Wealth has continued to increase - as the amount from my salaried income available for discretionary stuff has dropped. I haven't increased the % (or fixed amounts) that I save. This doesn't bode well for anyone who doesn't have a Pile (tiny or ginormous) of Saved Up Wealth. Wouldn't that seem to indicate that even if someone is working but isn't contributing to investments is falling even further behind? Their income may be "keeping up" but they aren't getting ahead. Those that easily covering their expense but spending it all probably aren't feeling a pinch yet. Those that are working and covering their expenses with a little left over (but not really saving) are going to feel the pinch sooner. Neither of these groups are 'getting ahead' in 2020 (or I suspect for the last few years).
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 1, 2021 16:21:43 GMT -5
We're in a weird spot whereby every stream of income we had dropped nearly 50% (oil royalties, dividends and interest) but the stock and real estate values soared. So through a combination of moves; finally taking my small pension, am now on the ACA paying $300/mth instead of nearly $2,000/mth we're taking advantage of the situation and doing a Roth Conversion. Oddly one of my nephews is the only person I know who is unemployed. Ironically he was a 3D print operator for a very large defense contractor so it surprised me that he lost his job. According to my brother they are still doing o.k. because the wife's stay at home craft business has taken off. But I know there's a lot of hurt out there. And of course my heart goes out to those people who have lost loved ones to Covid.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Jan 1, 2021 18:40:57 GMT -5
You may not agree with him, but he makes a great point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 19:29:46 GMT -5
You may not agree with him, but he makes a great point. I do agree that there is something very wrong when I pay federal taxes on my less than 6 figure income, but huge corporations pay nothing AND receive money from the federal government to boot. I’m a generous person, sometimes to a fault, and I still feel some type of way about the money I pay in federal taxes going to help full time employees of large corporations like WalMart be able to survive and feed their families. So many people make money off of what these worker bees do, but I as a tax payer have to accept that some of MY hard earned money goes toward helping the worker bees survive even though they have full time jobs with corporations that generate millions and billions of dollars in annual profits. My problem isn’t with the worker bees, I’m a worker bee myself that’s just trying to make it, like all the rest of the worker bees. My problem is with the corporations that prefer that tax paying individuals like myself help their employees survive instead of doing right by them and sharing the ginormous profits they take in with their employees so that they don’t need social programs to be able to have decent housing and be able to eat. I’m a firm believer in the saying “if you don’t work, you don’t eat” but I’m not good with having people working for major corporations that are rolling in dough, but still not earning enough to provide a decent roof over their heads and pay for their basic needs like food and healthcare.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jan 1, 2021 19:39:49 GMT -5
I actually don't have a lot of faith in the current highs in the stock market. I've watch it go up, and I've watched it go down. Plus, the way the government is spending money, inflation has already start to occur. So I don't think there's a bigger gap necessarily between the rich and the poor. I think it is more between the haves and the have-nots. You don't have to be rich to be a have, and you don't have to be poor to be a have-not. I agree the stock market isn’t the best example of op’s point as many of us are experiencing paper gains and nothing more. If it lasts then it’s something but if the sp500 is 50% of today’s value next NYE, we got maybe what we put into it...adjusted for inflation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 20:57:34 GMT -5
DH is waiting for the markets to close to calculate our net worth.
I know it has gone up an insane amount this year. It makes me think about how this pandemic has exacerbated the inequities in our society. The rich are getting richer and the poor worse off. Big business vs struggling small businesses.
Working women vs working men (many more women are quitting to stay home than men). Service jobs vs those who can work from home. Your thoughts?
I believe the pandemic has shone a spotlight on the inequities you mentioned. The people that do the work that allows other people to shelter in place to protect themselves.... producing and delivering the necessities.... are also some of the lowest paid and least respected segments of this society. I am constantly reminded of the opinions that mocked these people for not doing “ better” for themselves, even here on these boards. But when the shit hit the fan in 2020, who was out there putting themselves at risk for serious illness or even death, making things happen, getting things to the people whose circumstances allowed them to stay safely at home? The same people that so many looked down on and mocked for not “bettering, themselves, that’s who. And honestly, since I’m an “essential” employee myself that doesn’t work in healthcare, I feel some type of way about how little regard is shown for our health and well being. We’re real people too, people that aren’t necessarily thrilled about the risks we take to do our jobs and help others get through this pandemic. We have hopes and dreams too and I can say from personal experience that it’s terrifying to know that keeping the income we and our families depend on is less than ideal when it also involves the risk of contracting a virus that can also wipe our families out. The money I’ve invested for retirement has grown during this crisis, but what good is that to me if I get COVID and die because I’m an “essential” employee that has to show up for work every day? My heirs will have some major cash if I die, but I would hope they’d prefer to have me living and healthy. What good is a brilliant CEO or any kind of leader, without the work of the worker bees? Without us, in our current circumstances, our entire society would collapse in a hot minute. But hey, let’s keep propping up the millionaires and multi-billion dollar industries and let the little guys that are wiling to work every day to try to make a living suffer and go hungry. I don’t see that working well, but what the fuck do I know.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jan 2, 2021 12:36:36 GMT -5
What good is a brilliant CEO or any kind of leader, without the work of the worker bees? .......... but what the fuck do I know.
A place I worked at in a prior life had the motto of ........ 'If I can see farther, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants.' I have always felt the massive encouragement of a college degree is overrated for most people. Without the people on the bottom (like me), the ones on top will topple. The company I work for now has been wonderful with the disbursement of their stimulus package. All of us have benefited and the company is still moving forward. A little slower but still forward. One of my brothers is an 18 wheel driver and they have worked as much as wanted. People like my bro and SIL have kept this country fed and with gasoline. Utility workers have kept this country with electricity, water, gas.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 2, 2021 13:09:35 GMT -5
I actually don't have a lot of faith in the current highs in the stock market. I've watch it go up, and I've watched it go down. Plus, the way the government is spending money, inflation has already start to occur. So I don't think there's a bigger gap necessarily between the rich and the poor. I think it is more between the haves and the have-nots. You don't have to be rich to be a have, and you don't have to be poor to be a have-not. I agree the stock market isn’t the best example of op’s point as many of us are experiencing paper gains and nothing more. If it lasts then it’s something but if the sp500 is 50% of today’s value next NYE, we got maybe what we put into it...adjusted for inflation. I think there may be a subset of high income earners with big investments who ARE taking the gains and using it to pay down debt (mortgages on their nearly or over a million dollar houses) or who might be taking the gains and buying a bigger more expensive house. I bet some are also buying new ultra high end stuff. Basically, spending the gains on things that don't have much of a "trickle" down to the middle class (or lower). I suspect from a high income earner with big investments - that it makes sense to turn some of the "paper gains" into actual stuff. Odds are for them - taking the gains doesn't change their "future retirement" or even their "future spending". It's just icing on the cake. The difference would be that the majority of people seeing the "paper gains" need them for future living expenses (retirement). They can't "lock in the gain" by taking some of the gain and converting it to another asset (like a house or other real estate) or into something that enhances their middle class/lower class life. I may have enough to FIre - but I'm looking at having close to a median income for my area. And I will probably need a part time job for pin money. I'm more FI than re. I'm looking at maintaining my fairly "frugal" lifestyle. It isn't gonna be blow and hookers ever after.
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svwashout
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Post by svwashout on Jan 3, 2021 10:43:05 GMT -5
This survey breaks down self-reported employee financial changes during 2020 by occupational sector and its results surprised me. In the first chart the top three gainers I would have assumed would have been net losers in 2020. Even the restaurant/hotel sector came out ahead of health care. www.yahoo.com/finance/news/harris-poll-workers-who-won-lost-in-the-pandemic-125931865.htmlAt the opposite end real estate was the biggest loser, but given the recent press about sharp gains in home values over the past year that (for once) is not concentrated in the already expensive metro areas, I would imagine now to be a good time to be in the business of selling homes across most of the country. Anyway this result seems inconsistent with the "workers lost/shareholders won" mantra, where like in retail 53% of employees "did better through 2020" while many if not most of their employers gained the dreaded "Q" on their stock symbols.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Jan 3, 2021 12:13:11 GMT -5
This survey breaks down self-reported employee financial changes during 2020 by occupational sector and its results surprised me. In the first chart the top three gainers I would have assumed would have been net losers in 2020. Even the restaurant/hotel sector came out ahead of health care. www.yahoo.com/finance/news/harris-poll-workers-who-won-lost-in-the-pandemic-125931865.htmlAt the opposite end real estate was the biggest loser, but given the recent press about sharp gains in home values over the past year that (for once) is not concentrated in the already expensive metro areas, I would imagine now to be a good time to be in the business of selling homes across most of the country.Anyway this result seems inconsistent with the "workers lost/shareholders won" mantra, where like in retail 53% of employees "did better through 2020" while many if not most of their employers gained the dreaded "Q" on their stock symbols. According to Zillow, my house value has increased by more than $30K this year. There are not enough homes in this area to meet the demand. Mobil homes which would normally depreciate are appreciating this year. Of course, the county is getting taxes based on the appreciated value. We could sell our rental for $20K more than we put into it. Since we went into that game with the intention of staying there a few years, we're going to sit on it for now. It will make us more than that over the long term.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jan 4, 2021 11:24:59 GMT -5
My neighbors just put their home on the market January 2nd. Tons of people were viewing it all weekend. Of course, I also live in a tech city where jobs haven't been effected as much. Corporations are moving here, and we have also been "open" since mid-May.
My home supposedly increased by 30K this year as well.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jan 4, 2021 16:47:37 GMT -5
Our house on Zillow is at $318k for the first time.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jan 8, 2021 17:30:13 GMT -5
You may not agree with him, but he makes a great point. I do agree that there is something very wrong when I pay federal taxes on my less than 6 figure income, but huge corporations pay nothing AND receive money from the federal government to boot. I’m a generous person, sometimes to a fault, and I still feel some type of way about the money I pay in federal taxes going to help full time employees of large corporations like WalMart be able to survive and feed their families. So many people make money off of what these worker bees do, but I as a tax payer have to accept that some of MY hard earned money goes toward helping the worker bees survive even though they have full time jobs with corporations that generate millions and billions of dollars in annual profits. My problem isn’t with the worker bees, I’m a worker bee myself that’s just trying to make it, like all the rest of the worker bees. My problem is with the corporations that prefer that tax paying individuals like myself help their employees survive instead of doing right by them and sharing the ginormous profits they take in with their employees so that they don’t need social programs to be able to have decent housing and be able to eat. I’m a firm believer in the saying “if you don’t work, you don’t eat” but I’m not good with having people working for major corporations that are rolling in dough, but still not earning enough to provide a decent roof over their heads and pay for their basic needs like food and healthcare. On the one hand, isn't Walmart's fault that their employees had children they couldn't and likely never would be able to support. That's what your tax dollars are paying for, for the most part. And there has really never been a time in our country's history when a job in low end retail was able to support a family, so why are we expecting retailers to pay factory wages for retail labor? On the other hand, it isn't these people's fault that the factories have shut down, and that they graduated high school with no marketable skills, because the schools gutted their trade programs and pushed a college prep curriculum on kids they know darn well don't have the inclination or ability to succeed in college. When I moved to my new town, the wages for entry level jobs where at least 50% higher, despite having a similar cost of living. And while the economy is pretty good, a big part of the reason is the fact that the high schools have wonderful trade programs. These schools not only didn't gut what they had. They also went to businesses, asked "What do you need?" and created new programs, for jobs that didn't exist 20 years ago. As a result, the vast majority of high school students are graduating either with a well paying trade or a couple years of college credits. Since there isn't this oversupply of unskilled labor, businesses have to compete for workers. I'm not saying that we don't need to do more to protect workers, no matter what they choose to do. We obviously do. Minimum wage needs to be indexed for inflation. And cruel practices, like expecting low wage workers to be on call 24/7, need to stop. But a lot of the same goals can be achieved by being a little more sensible with education, and giving different kinds of people decent options that will fit them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 17:47:23 GMT -5
When I moved to my new town, the wages for entry level jobs were at least 50% higher, despite having a similar cost of living. And while the economy is pretty good, a big part of the reason is the fact that the high schools have wonderful trade programs. These schools not only didn't gut what they had. They also went to businesses, asked "What do you need?" and created new programs, for jobs that didn't exist 20 years ago. As a result, the vast majority of high school students are graduating either with a well paying trade or a couple years of college credits. Since there isn't this oversupply of unskilled labor, businesses have to compete for workers. In 1997, my expensive school system in Bergen County, NJ hired a consulting firm (ka-ching!) to survey employers about what skillsets they needed in employees going into this century. It was called "Horizon 2000". The result was a proposed $17 million bond issue to tart up the two high schools, including a lot of deferred maintenance, a "state-of-the-art" photo darkroom, greatly enhanced performing arts spaces, and $1 million for landscaping. It passed. I was so darn glad to move out of there.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jan 8, 2021 17:49:15 GMT -5
Ok, I'll bite.
The too many children is a fallacy. Pretty sure there are lots of single people working at walmart who aren't making a living wage either. Not to mention the lack of healthcare if they are forced to hover at part-time.
And training trade skills is a nice idea but not feasible everywhere particularly the poorest school districts who don't habe the funds to set up training.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Jan 8, 2021 17:55:05 GMT -5
It's not the answer to everything wrong, but I also believe there isn't one single answer. There are dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of different answers that will all move the needle a little bit. That's what we really need to see. The needle moving gives people motivation to keep pushing. If some of answer A works, then city C can take what works and discard what isn't in their implementation. They can then try action B to see if the needle moves more for them.
I see the biggest problem as too many people wanting a single answer and there not being a forum for multiple answers with various outcomes. There are also too many people involved in trying to solve the problem so that nothing gets done because people start politicizing the issues. If we all were to focus on this one issue, we could resolve it. If even 30% of the population focused on it, we could probably resolve it. The whole thing just keeps falling to the bottom of the barrel.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jan 9, 2021 13:19:25 GMT -5
I'm on Bogleheads a lot. It's like an entirely different universe, the employment perks the high earners and MegaCorp employees get, compared to the complete lack of perks that many lower income earners and small business workers get. I think that's where much of the chasm lies.
I'm sensitive to it because I'm living it - my little employer has no health insurance, no vacation/PTO, no sick leave (ok, this is changing, only because the state mandated it due to Covid). There was no retirement plan until 18 months ago, and it took a determined Board member to push that promise thru 4 years after it had been made (and less than a year before said Board member's death). But it's only a SIMPLE IRA, with a crappy, expensive sponsor. The 3% match on that was our "raise" that year (none for 2 staff under the hourly min to contribute), and the state minimum wage bump was the raise for 3 staffers last year and this year (none for me).
At the minimum, I think employment standards need to be STANDARD: either every employer offers health insurance, or none and we all go thru ACA. Every employer offers a 401k (because an IRA is NOT equivalent). Every employer offers sick leave, minimum vacation time.
Those lower income earners can't possibly save at a proportional rate (need less retirement savings vs higher earners because spend less) if they have no vehicle to save in and no match or tiny 3% match vs 1:1 match at MegaCorps.
The haves are participating in the stock market, which gives them both a pool of stored up wealth (to buoy them up in bad times) and a source of passive income. The have-nots are not, so when they stop treading water, they sink.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jan 18, 2021 16:44:00 GMT -5
It's not the answer to everything wrong, but I also believe there isn't one single answer. There are dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of different answers that will all move the needle a little bit. That's what we really need to see. The needle moving gives people motivation to keep pushing. If some of answer A works, then city C can take what works and discard what isn't in their implementation. They can then try action B to see if the needle moves more for them.
I see the biggest problem as too many people wanting a single answer and there not being a forum for multiple answers with various outcomes. There are also too many people involved in trying to solve the problem so that nothing gets done because people start politicizing the issues. If we all were to focus on this one issue, we could resolve it. If even 30% of the population focused on it, we could probably resolve it. The whole thing just keeps falling to the bottom of the barrel.
This is one reason why most on the right have given up on the idea of government programs helping people get out of poverty. For decades, all we heard was that anyone who didn't want to do things the left's way was an evil person. It's too bad. There is a lot that government could do to help people that would be cheaper in the long run.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jan 18, 2021 17:21:20 GMT -5
It's not the answer to everything wrong, but I also believe there isn't one single answer. There are dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of different answers that will all move the needle a little bit. That's what we really need to see. The needle moving gives people motivation to keep pushing. If some of answer A works, then city C can take what works and discard what isn't in their implementation. They can then try action B to see if the needle moves more for them.
I see the biggest problem as too many people wanting a single answer and there not being a forum for multiple answers with various outcomes. There are also too many people involved in trying to solve the problem so that nothing gets done because people start politicizing the issues. If we all were to focus on this one issue, we could resolve it. If even 30% of the population focused on it, we could probably resolve it. The whole thing just keeps falling to the bottom of the barrel.
This is one reason why most on the right have given up on the idea of government programs helping people get out of poverty. For decades, all we heard was that anyone who didn't want to do things the left's way was an evil person. It's too bad. There is a lot that government could do to help people that would be cheaper in the long run. What plan do the republicans have to solve the problems? I haven’t seen aby
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Jan 18, 2021 17:33:06 GMT -5
This is one reason why most on the right have given up on the idea of government programs helping people get out of poverty. For decades, all we heard was that anyone who didn't want to do things the left's way was an evil person. It's too bad. There is a lot that government could do to help people that would be cheaper in the long run. What plan do the republicans have to solve the problems? I haven’t seen aby Well, "trickle down" of course! 🙄
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Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,357
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Post by Tiny on Jan 18, 2021 17:50:13 GMT -5
It's not the answer to everything wrong, but I also believe there isn't one single answer. There are dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of different answers that will all move the needle a little bit. That's what we really need to see. The needle moving gives people motivation to keep pushing. If some of answer A works, then city C can take what works and discard what isn't in their implementation. They can then try action B to see if the needle moves more for them.
I see the biggest problem as too many people wanting a single answer and there not being a forum for multiple answers with various outcomes. There are also too many people involved in trying to solve the problem so that nothing gets done because people start politicizing the issues. If we all were to focus on this one issue, we could resolve it. If even 30% of the population focused on it, we could probably resolve it. The whole thing just keeps falling to the bottom of the barrel.
This is one reason why most on the right have given up on the idea of government programs helping people get out of poverty. For decades, all we heard was that anyone who didn't want to do things the left's way was an evil person. It's too bad. There is a lot that government could do to help people that would be cheaper in the long run. What are those things?
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thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,327
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 19, 2021 8:28:55 GMT -5
This is one reason why most on the right have given up on the idea of government programs helping people get out of poverty. For decades, all we heard was that anyone who didn't want to do things the left's way was an evil person. It's too bad. There is a lot that government could do to help people that would be cheaper in the long run. My husband and I discussed the $15/ hour minimum wage last night, and we both have reservations, his thoughts being a little more formed than my thoughts. In the end, I am extremely worried about the wage and wealth gap. We are back to the point where every other society with a gap this large starts seeing serious consequences for it. Our social unrest right now is tied to that gap. Maybe this time the rich people have been more successful getting the poor people to turn on each other rather than them, but that won't last forever, and I am prime to be a loser in the case of turmoil. I am so wide open to anything we could do as a society that would balance the scales a little, but haven't heard much from conservatives that would close the gap. Obviously eliminating regulations would help business, but i see no way that would get to the workers. I am also the first to admit I haven't been very diligent about searching out conservative policy ideas. So, please, please let me know what they are proposing that could close that gap a little.
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