Guess who has COVID?

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2020 20:41:09 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You cannot get sick from any of the vaccines. Not possible. So it makes no sense to not take one. Given how widespread the infection is, if you leave the house, you have a chance to bring it home. That is our current reality.

Theoretically, the mRNA vaccines should be less likely to cause an allergic reaction

Honestly confused about something. I heard even if you get the vaccine it's still not safe to just throw off the masks and go back to the old normal. Is this the case, at least until we get enough people vaccinated?

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 1, 2020 16:45:53 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Dec 1, 2020 15:46:53 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

IF the vaccine works and keeps ME from catching the virus (or at least from developing severe or long-term symptoms), I do NOT care whether anyone else gets the vaccination.

Don't we still need a significant number of our population to get vaccinated? I don't think it's as simple as get the shots and now you are good. They aren't 100% effective. Without some sort of herd immunity you are still at risk, I believe. 

They are something like 95% effective and I believe Moderna said that it is 100% effective against severe Covid.

There are idiots out there that won’t wear masks and won’t get the vaccine. I don’t care about them. Natural selection and all.I care about my family and we will get a vaccine as soon as it is available

I had severe Covid and I would much rather a couple days of mild side-effects over what I went through.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 1, 2020 21:18:24 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Dec 1, 2020 20:41:09 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You cannot get sick from any of the vaccines. Not possible. So it makes no sense to not take one. Given how widespread the infection is, if you leave the house, you have a chance to bring it home. That is our current reality.

Theoretically, the mRNA vaccines should be less likely to cause an allergic reaction

Honestly confused about something. I heard even if you get the vaccine it's still not safe to just throw off the masks and go back to the old normal. Is this the case, at least until we get enough people vaccinated?

What we do not know is if it prevents someone from becoming an asymptotic spreader. So they get infected, do not get sick, but spread the disease. People vaccinated early on could contribute to making the pandemic worse until enough people are vaccinated

[movingforward]

Dec 1, 2020 21:43:18 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 1, 2020 21:18:24 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Honestly confused about something. I heard even if you get the vaccine it's still not safe to just throw off the masks and go back to the old normal. Is this the case, at least until we get enough people vaccinated?

What we do not know is if it prevents someone from becoming an asymptotic spreader. So they get infected, do not get sick, but spread the disease. People vaccinated early on could contribute to making the pandemic worse until enough people are vaccinated

I always thought that was one of the main reasons to get vaccinated, so you wouldn't be a spreader...

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 1, 2020 22:09:18 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Dec 1, 2020 21:43:18 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

What we do not know is if it prevents someone from becoming an asymptotic spreader. So they get infected, do not get sick, but spread the disease. People vaccinated early on could contribute to making the pandemic worse until enough people are vaccinated

I always thought that was one of the main reasons to get vaccinated, so you wouldn't be a spreader...

No, the reason to be vaccinated is to prevent severe disease. The vaccines seem to be able to do that. In the example of the flu vaccine, if you get the flu despite being vaccinated, you usually do not get as sick, and it prevents deaths. The most important thing is to to keep people from dying or being sick enough to be hospitalized. Everything above that is gravy.

If enough people are vaccinated with an effective vaccine, a disease eventually runs out of victims. That shuts down transmission, and a disease can be eradicated. That is the holy grail, and has really only been achieved in regards to smallpox

[NastyWoman]

I fully intend to get vaccinated. But at the sane time I also intend to keep using masks for a while as needed and for a looooong time while taking an inter-continental flight. I am old enough that I may never take another 10+ hour flight without a mask. I already have taken disinfecting wipes for years now. And I am not a germaphobe but I was also never convinced that planes were cleaned properly in between flights

[anciana]

Dec 1, 2020 22:32:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Dec 1, 2020 22:09:18 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I always thought that was one of the main reasons to get vaccinated, so you wouldn't be a spreader...

No, the reason to be vaccinated is to prevent severe disease. The vaccines seem to be able to do that. In the example of the flu vaccine, if you get the flu despite being vaccinated, you usually do not get as sick, and it prevents deaths. The most important thing is to to keep people from dying or being sick enough to be hospitalized. Everything above that is gravy.

If enough people are vaccinated with an effective vaccine, a disease eventually runs out of victims. That shuts down transmission, and a disease can be eradicated. That is the holy grail, and has really only been achieved in regards to smallpox

I believe that Moderna and Pfizer only tested people who developed symptoms so we don't know how many were actually infected and potentially asymptomatic carriers even with the vaccine. AstraZeneca trials conducted weekly swab tests among their participants, allowing them to detect much less severe cases — including potential asymptomatic infections — among their volunteers. So, just like NastyWoman, even after I get vaccinated, hopefully in 12-18 months, I plan on continuing to wear a mask in public for a long time.

[ners]

TheHaitian  How is your brother.

Are you doing okay?

[TheHaitian]

Dec 4, 2020 21:56:35 GMT -5 ners said:

TheHaitian  How is your brother.

Are you doing okay?

I am good, on vacation so really keeping low profile. Spent yesterday mostly sleeping, did some cleaning today. Will do more housework tomorrow and what not.

Co-worker did have Covid and will be back to work Monday. Brother is staying at my cousin for now... brought them some Haitian food yesterday.

Thanks for asking

[tallguy]

Dec 1, 2020 20:41:09 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You cannot get sick from any of the vaccines. Not possible. So it makes no sense to not take one. Given how widespread the infection is, if you leave the house, you have a chance to bring it home. That is our current reality.

Theoretically, the mRNA vaccines should be less likely to cause an allergic reaction

I have not been following the details on any of the COVID vaccines so maybe this isn't relevant, and I certainly don't want to give the anti-vaxxer nuts any ammunition, but....

Is your statement above intended to apply only to the current set of COVID vaccines or to vaccines in general?  And does that safety depend on a number of factors?  First, are we at risk of rushing or even skipping any of the necessary steps in the hurry to distribution?  Second, do we have adequate safeguards to ensure that the vaccines, even if determined safe and approved, are manufactured correctly?  One of the things I have been doing to utilize my time is to check out as many as I can of The American Experience DVDs from the library.  One that I watched a couple days ago was titled The Polio Crusade about the threat of polio in the last century and the work of Drs. Salk and Sabin.  Are you aware of the Cutter incident?  Yes, it led to much better federal regulation of vaccines in the end, but a bad batch by a smaller company still harmed many thousands of people.  Not to even mention the lack of trust I have in the overly-politicized, Trumpian version of federal health regulators.        

[Opti]

I spoke to one of my fave nurses on the Covid vaccine. And I think I read much of what he has. In the two dose Pfizer vaccine, most people do fine after the first dose, but a significant portion have reduced immune function after the second dose and may need time off work to recover. They all recover, its just you might lose work time to getting the vaccine much like you might after getting Covid or even a flu vaccine if you are less than healthy while getting it. The latter is generally true for me as I have chronic sinusitis.

[justme]

Dec 4, 2020 23:51:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 1, 2020 20:41:09 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You cannot get sick from any of the vaccines. Not possible. So it makes no sense to not take one. Given how widespread the infection is, if you leave the house, you have a chance to bring it home. That is our current reality.

Theoretically, the mRNA vaccines should be less likely to cause an allergic reaction

I have not been following the details on any of the COVID vaccines so maybe this isn't relevant, and I certainly don't want to give the anti-vaxxer nuts any ammunition, but....

Is your statement above intended to apply only to the current set of COVID vaccines or to vaccines in general?  And does that safety depend on a number of factors?  First, are we at risk of rushing or even skipping any of the necessary steps in the hurry to distribution?  Second, do we have adequate safeguards to ensure that the vaccines, even if determined safe and approved, are manufactured correctly?  One of the things I have been doing to utilize my time is to check out as many as I can of The American Experience DVDs from the library.  One that I watched a couple days ago was titled The Polio Crusade about the threat of polio in the last century and the work of Drs. Salk and Sabin.  Are you aware of the Cutter incident?  Yes, it led to much better federal regulation of vaccines in the end, but a bad batch by a smaller company still harmed many thousands of people.  Not to even mention the lack of trust I have in the overly-politicized, Trumpian version of federal health regulators.        

Any vaccine does not give you the disease thus you cannot get sick (as in have the disease) from a vaccine. However, vaccines can cause noticeable immune responses (fever, fatigue, etc) that some interrupt as being "sick" when it's just an immune response and you're not actually actively sick (nor are you contagious as one is if you were actually sick).

To a lot of layman it's an indistinguishable difference and the misunderstanding can lead to people not vaccinating (notably the flu vaccine), but modern vaccines cannot give you the disease thus they cannot make you sick though they can cause side effects due to your immune response.

[tallguy]

Dec 5, 2020 0:54:40 GMT -5 justme said:

Dec 4, 2020 23:51:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I have not been following the details on any of the COVID vaccines so maybe this isn't relevant, and I certainly don't want to give the anti-vaxxer nuts any ammunition, but....

Is your statement above intended to apply only to the current set of COVID vaccines or to vaccines in general?  And does that safety depend on a number of factors?  First, are we at risk of rushing or even skipping any of the necessary steps in the hurry to distribution?  Second, do we have adequate safeguards to ensure that the vaccines, even if determined safe and approved, are manufactured correctly?  One of the things I have been doing to utilize my time is to check out as many as I can of The American Experience DVDs from the library.  One that I watched a couple days ago was titled The Polio Crusade about the threat of polio in the last century and the work of Drs. Salk and Sabin.  Are you aware of the Cutter incident?  Yes, it led to much better federal regulation of vaccines in the end, but a bad batch by a smaller company still harmed many thousands of people.  Not to even mention the lack of trust I have in the overly-politicized, Trumpian version of federal health regulators.        

Any vaccine does not give you the disease thus you cannot get sick (as in have the disease) from a vaccine. However, vaccines can cause noticeable immune responses (fever, fatigue, etc) that some interrupt as being "sick" when it's just an immune response and you're not actually actively sick (nor are you contagious as one is if you were actually sick).

To a lot of layman it's an indistinguishable difference and the misunderstanding can lead to people not vaccinating (notably the flu vaccine), but modern vaccines cannot give you the disease thus they cannot make you sick though they can cause side effects due to your immune response.

Except in the case I cited, the Salk vaccine was supposed to be a "killed-virus" vaccine.  The Cutter lab screwed up and 200,000 kids were given a live virus in error due to their method being defective.  Now granted that was 1955 and we have strengthened regulation since then....

[TheHaitian]

By the way my antibody test also came back negative.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 4, 2020 23:51:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 1, 2020 20:41:09 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You cannot get sick from any of the vaccines. Not possible. So it makes no sense to not take one. Given how widespread the infection is, if you leave the house, you have a chance to bring it home. That is our current reality.

Theoretically, the mRNA vaccines should be less likely to cause an allergic reaction

I have not been following the details on any of the COVID vaccines so maybe this isn't relevant, and I certainly don't want to give the anti-vaxxer nuts any ammunition, but....

Is your statement above intended to apply only to the current set of COVID vaccines or to vaccines in general?  And does that safety depend on a number of factors?  First, are we at risk of rushing or even skipping any of the necessary steps in the hurry to distribution?  Second, do we have adequate safeguards to ensure that the vaccines, even if determined safe and approved, are manufactured correctly?  One of the things I have been doing to utilize my time is to check out as many as I can of The American Experience DVDs from the library.  One that I watched a couple days ago was titled The Polio Crusade about the threat of polio in the last century and the work of Drs. Salk and Sabin.  Are you aware of the Cutter incident?  Yes, it led to much better federal regulation of vaccines in the end, but a bad batch by a smaller company still harmed many thousands of people.  Not to even mention the lack of trust I have in the overly-politicized, Trumpian version of federal health regulators.        

There is a difference between vaccines made from virus components, killed viruses, and live, attenuated viruses. The simplest example of the latter is the chicken pox vaccine. It is a weakened strain, but a live virus. Those people who are immunosuppressed should not get that vaccine as their immune system may not keep them well. You can get sick from those vaccines. At the other end of the spectrum are the current coronavirus vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna. They are mENA vaccines. All they contain is a strand of the viruses RNA. What is needed to manufacture an intact virus is not there, so you CANNOT get covid from these vaccines. Side effects, yes. Covid, no. The incident you highlight came from a live killed vaccine. Intact, but supposedly dead virus is injected. If the virus is not dead, yes you can get sick. These types of vaccines are falling out of use as our technology improves.

Yes, we are rushing things. We do not have the luxury of time. We have a clear risk, coronavirus infection, with a know mortality, and significant short term and long term health effects. In the other side, we have a vaccine with unclear risks, and potential significant benefits. Although the type of technology is new, vaccination has been around for hundreds of years, and it is the greatest breakthrough in medicine ever. In my opinion, Bering in the middle of this, the risk of unknown, but likely quite low, long term side effects is dwarfed by the known, serious risks of infection. And, our ability to protect ourselves is less due to how widespread the disease is now. Things are far riskier now than in the spring.

I have little concern about the manufacturing of these things. The technology is solid, and well understood. I think that is likely the safest part of this whole process, although shit does happen.

We are in a lousy place. We need more time, but taking that time prolongs our misery. All of the decisions are less than perfect. But we are here because of our selfishness, our poor response, and a government and a president that abdicated their responsibility to lead us through this. A vaccine is now the only way to get through this, get life back to normal, and minimize deaths, because we will not do what is necessary to control it otherwise

[justme]

Dec 5, 2020 1:59:23 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Dec 5, 2020 0:54:40 GMT -5 justme said:

Any vaccine does not give you the disease thus you cannot get sick (as in have the disease) from a vaccine. However, vaccines can cause noticeable immune responses (fever, fatigue, etc) that some interrupt as being "sick" when it's just an immune response and you're not actually actively sick (nor are you contagious as one is if you were actually sick).

To a lot of layman it's an indistinguishable difference and the misunderstanding can lead to people not vaccinating (notably the flu vaccine), but modern vaccines cannot give you the disease thus they cannot make you sick though they can cause side effects due to your immune response.

Except in the case I cited, the Salk vaccine was supposed to be a "killed-virus" vaccine.  The Cutter lab screwed up and 200,000 kids were given a live virus in error due to their method being defective.  Now granted that was 1955 and we have strengthened regulation since then....

Well I don't consider 1955 modern 😉 so wasn't including that. Especially since the polio vaccine has since changed. I think - oral to injected but maybe it's the same otherwise.

ETA didn't know chicken pox was a dead virus, but my childhood was before the vaccine or at least I got it before it was widely used.

[pulmonarymd]

Dec 5, 2020 8:04:03 GMT -5 justme said:

Dec 5, 2020 1:59:23 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Except in the case I cited, the Salk vaccine was supposed to be a "killed-virus" vaccine.  The Cutter lab screwed up and 200,000 kids were given a live virus in error due to their method being defective.  Now granted that was 1955 and we have strengthened regulation since then....

Well I don't consider 1955 modern 😉 so wasn't including that. Especially since the polio vaccine has since changed. I think - oral to injected but maybe it's the same otherwise.

ETA didn't know chicken pox was a dead virus, but my childhood was before the vaccine or at least I got it before it was widely used.

The varicella vaccine is a live attenuated virus. Not a killed virus. Significant difference, as inmunosupressed people should not receive it

[ners]

TheHaitian Glad you are doing well. 

[Deleted]

I was perfectly healthy and in my early 20s.

I was given the chicken pox vaccine and ended up with a red, itchy, bumpy rash all over my body and a high fever. I was advised it was not safe to get the second shot.

I tested negative for the titre for chicken pox, or whatever it's called.  

I don't have an egg allergy but was told my reaction was an allergic reaction.

I had the one and only flu shot I have ever gotten a few years later when forced by my employer.

I was very sick for 2 weeks and almost lost my job. I was told it was coincidence and couldn't have been from the vaccination.

Makes me really look forward to the COVID vaccines. I'll get one, but not in the next year. I want to know what side effects it has before I'll agree to get one. 

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 5, 2020 13:02:32 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

I was perfectly healthy and in my early 20s.

I was given the chicken pox vaccine and ended up with a red, itchy, bumpy rash all over my body and a high fever. I was advised it was not safe to get the second shot.

I tested negative for the titre for chicken pox, or whatever it's called.  

I don't have an egg allergy but was told my reaction was an allergic reaction.

I had the one and only flu shot I have ever gotten a few years later when forced by my employer.

I was very sick for 2 weeks and almost lost my job. I was told it was coincidence and couldn't have been from the vaccination.

Makes me really look forward to the COVID vaccines. I'll get one, but not in the next year. I want to know what side effects it has before I'll agree to get one. 

And this is the frustrating part. You have posted non-stop about how bad this is, why isn’t their a national shut down, trumpeters aren’t wearing masks, etc...and you are refusing to get a vaccine (at least in the next 12 months). If everyone had your attitude and refused a vaccine until everyone else for it, how would this end?

[TheOtherMe]

There were no vaccines for chicken pox, measles or mumps when I was a kid so I had all of those diseases.  Measles was by far the worst for me.  

I got shingles before I was old enough for the vaccine.  I have now had the old vaccine.  I had a reaction that only 1% of people get and it did take antibiotics to clear it up.  

I was vaccinated for small pox but they never "took".  I do not have a scar on my arm.

I have had vaccines for tetanus, etc (DPT?) and pneumonia twice.

I get a flu shot annually.

I will get the covid vaccine as soon as it's available to me.

[Deleted]

I'm with TheOtherMe .  I had all the "usual" childhood diseases.  I only remember measles.  My kids were spared that by the MMR vaccine.  Not the chicken pox, though.  Their small private school was isolated enough that no one got it . . . until WHAM they all did including the headmaster, who was hospitalized with chicken pox pneumonia.  My daughter was a senior in high school and most unhappy.  

My attitude is that if there is a vaccine for anything, I will take it.  I did a clinical trial for the earlier Shingles vaccine when they were testing its effectiveness for the 50-60 age group.  I was in the group that got the vaccine.  I always get the flu vaccine.  I got the two-shot newer Shingle shot.  I got the hepatitis A & B shots.  I got whatever boosters I was supposed to get.  I got Part 1 of the pneumonia shot and will get the Part 2 one in February.  And, of course, I got the smallpox and polio vaccines as a child.

I believe in vaccines.  Yes, there are people who shouldn't take them.  I am not one of them.  I hate shots with a horrible passion, but I would be first in line if that was an option.

And like others on here, I won't be discarding my mask right away.  As has been said, the covid vaccine doesn't guarantee that you won't get covid.  It only means that you will be spared the worst.  I don't want it at all so it is still my responsibility to stay away from potential carriers.

By the way, my niece has covid and the flu (strand B) simultaneously.  They tested her for both.  She even repeated the covid test.  She is miserable but holding in there.

[toomuchreality]

 pulmonarymd
      
There is a difference between vaccines made from virus components, killed viruses, and live, attenuated viruses. The simplest example of the latter is the chicken pox vaccine. It is a weakened strain, but a live virus. Those people who are immunosuppressed should not get that vaccine as their immune system may not keep them well. You can get sick from those vaccines. At the other end of the spectrum are the current coronavirus vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna. They are mENA vaccines. All they contain is a strand of the viruses RNA. What is needed to manufacture an intact virus is not there, so you CANNOT get covid from these vaccines. Side effects, yes. Covid, no. The incident you highlight came from a live killed vaccine. Intact, but supposedly dead virus is injected. If the virus is not dead, yes you can get sick. These types of vaccines are falling out of use as our technology improves.

Yes, we are rushing things. We do not have the luxury of time. We have a clear risk, coronavirus infection, with a know mortality, and significant short term and long term health effects. In the other side, we have a vaccine with unclear risks, and potential significant benefits. Although the type of technology is new, vaccination has been around for hundreds of years, and it is the greatest breakthrough in medicine ever. In my opinion, Bering in the middle of this, the risk of unknown, but likely quite low, long term side effects is dwarfed by the known, serious risks of infection. And, our ability to protect ourselves is less due to how widespread the disease is now. Things are far riskier now than in the spring.

I have little concern about the manufacturing of these things. The technology is solid, and well understood. I think that is likely the safest part of this whole process, although shit does happen.

We are in a lousy place. We need more time, but taking that time prolongs our misery. All of the decisions are less than perfect. But we are here because of our selfishness, our poor response, and a government and a president that abdicated their responsibility to lead us through this. A vaccine is now the only way to get through this, get life back to normal, and minimize deaths, because we will not do what is necessary to control it otherwise [/quote]


Thank you so much for this information! Although I still couldn't explain it to someone else, it makes sense and is well written.

I appreciate your posts and all your efforts, very much!

Stay safe and stay well.
TMR