djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2022 12:09:03 GMT -5
The fact that you can’t get the point bills is making is exactly the problem Their is an immutable truth. Trump lost a fair and free election. End of story. His inability to accept it is an issue because he continues to push a false narrative, which the Republican Party has swallowed hook, line, and sinker. He will be responsible for the fracturing of our nation if it isn’t stopped i don't even think they believe it. the GOP has been stewing over the fact that they have not won a majority vote in decades at the national level (the lone exception being Bush2 in 2004), and trying to figure out what to do about it. rather than winning some voters from the middle, they have decided that elections are the problem. and yes, i really do think it is that simple.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 22, 2022 12:09:03 GMT -5
It’s shocking that you think Trump is merely being a buffoon. He came up with a very clear plan in 2020, when he couldn’t coerce the SOS and governors of the swing states that went against him to throw out the legitimate vote and send a new set of electors to DC to vote for him. He’s been going after the current SOS and governors (even the GOP ones) with a literal vengeance - because he’s not an advocate of the GOP, he’s only ever thinking of Trump. Next he runs for office again in 2024, with his hand selected state minions in place. He rolls over the disorganized GOP candidates the same way he did in 2016, and this time if he loses the popular count and electoral count he’ll have his hand picked state minions who toss out not the WHOLE vote, but to cherry pick certain counties that are urban and heavy with Dem voters. Final leg of the plot - pick a VP he can be certain will march into Congress and, in a shocking and unpatriotic act, send the votes from states that didn’t go for him back to the states to ‘fix’ - certainly sparking a new civil war. We’re dangerously close to a populist dictatorship. The fact that anyone could think Trump is just a bumbling has been is terrifying. Wow talk about conspiracy theory It is not really a conspiracy theory if they are telling you and showing you that that is exactly what they are attempting....
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 22, 2022 14:00:04 GMT -5
Really? Care to back up that statement? After all tbe tax money spend since the 2016 election (when the grifting loser did not want to believe that he just won tbe electoral vote but not the popular one) and all the shenanigans after the 2020 election I have yet to see proof of this. And boy have they been looking... That is why I said nah to stolen. Election fraud could be throwing out mail in votes, someone who votes twice. Like I said i'm sure this does happen no proof just what I believe. Does that mean the election was stolen no, not enough of it going on. I want you to back up the claim that there is " plenty of election fraud". You made the claim so prove it or at least back it up with actual verifiable facts.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2022 14:53:13 GMT -5
i have been reading about election fraud for two decades.
the majority of election fraud is with mail in ballots, not in person voting. when it occurs on a massive scale, it is pretty obvious. and ONLY in those cases has it thrown elections.
as it normally manifests itself, it is pretty minor. i think there were less than 100 cases of voter fraud nationwide in 2020 out of 150M votes cast. most of the fraud was Republicans.
the other thing that happened was ELECTION fraud. that was more widespread, and resulted in a re-election (reballot) in, i think, Virgina? i can't remember now.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 22, 2022 15:09:31 GMT -5
That is why I said nah to stolen. Election fraud could be throwing out mail in votes, someone who votes twice. Like I said i'm sure this does happen no proof just what I believe. Does that mean the election was stolen no, not enough of it going on. I want you to back up the claim that there is " plenty of election fraud". You made the claim so prove it or at least back it up with actual verifiable facts. Did I make the claim, I might have? I think I said I believe there is plenty of election fraud. I never claim there was. Do you claim there wasn't?
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 22, 2022 15:12:27 GMT -5
Wow talk about conspiracy theory It is not really a conspiracy theory if they are telling you and showing you that that is exactly what they are attempting.... Having Trump already running in 2024 with a VP that will help overthrow a lost election. Sounds kinda out there. Now what I think the dems are really worried about is Trump running and winning. I didn't pick him in the primary's but did vote for him in the general.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 22, 2022 15:18:54 GMT -5
It is not really a conspiracy theory if they are telling you and showing you that that is exactly what they are attempting.... Having Trump already running in 2024 with a VP that will help overthrow a lost election. Sounds kinda out there. Now what I think the dems are really worried about is Trump running and winning. I didn't pick him in the primary's but did vote for him in the general. No, that is the easy part. Finding a vice-presidential candidate willing to overthrow the Constitution for Trump is as easy as overturning a rock. The tougher part is putting state officials in position to overrule valid election results, and the GOP is full speed ahead on that project.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 22, 2022 15:24:14 GMT -5
Having Trump already running in 2024 with a VP that will help overthrow a lost election. Sounds kinda out there. Now what I think the dems are really worried about is Trump running and winning. I didn't pick him in the primary's but did vote for him in the general. No, that is the easy part. Finding a vice-presidential candidate willing to overthrow the Constitution for Trump is as easy as overturning a rock. The tougher part is putting state officials in position to overrule valid election results, and the GOP is full speed ahead on that project. Actually the VP thing is totally impossible for the 2024 election.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 22, 2022 15:29:36 GMT -5
I want you to back up the claim that there is " plenty of election fraud". You made the claim so prove it or at least back it up with actual verifiable facts. Did I make the claim, I might have? I think I said I believe there is plenty of election fraud. I never claim there was. Do you claim there wasn't? Individual vote fraud is exceedingly rare, and it is committed far more often by Republicans. Organized and larger-scale vote fraud is also rare and is committed almost exclusively by Republicans. Disenfranchisement and attempted disenfranchisement of voters is unfortunately relatively common in comparison, and is again committed almost exclusively by Republicans. Gerrymandering is done by both parties, but more so by Republicans. I would also bet that it is predominantly blue states who are attempting to end gerrymandering through the use of non-partisan commissions.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 22, 2022 15:30:49 GMT -5
I want you to back up the claim that there is " plenty of election fraud". You made the claim so prove it or at least back it up with actual verifiable facts. Did I make the claim, I might have? I think I said I believe there is plenty of election fraud. I never claim there was. Do you claim there wasn't? This has been studied repeatedly and no widespread fraud is ever found. More importantly, Trump and his cronies filed over 60 suits in various courts, and not one proceeded beyond the filing, because they could not supply proof. The onus is on those who make a claim to provide proud. It is almost impossible to prove a negative. You did claim there was plenty of fraud. Prove it or shut up about it. Trump should shut up. Just because you believe something that is untrue does not mean it should be taken seriously or accepted by others. As we say in medicine, show us the data
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 22, 2022 15:35:16 GMT -5
No, that is the easy part. Finding a vice-presidential candidate willing to overthrow the Constitution for Trump is as easy as overturning a rock. The tougher part is putting state officials in position to overrule valid election results, and the GOP is full speed ahead on that project. Actually the VP thing is totally impossible for the 2024 election. The claim was that the VP would help overthrow an election. My contention was that finding one willing to try was easy. Whether it would succeed is what is actually in question. Are you saying that there could not be one willing to try, or that there would be zero chance of success? Those are very different matters.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 22, 2022 15:35:28 GMT -5
It is not really a conspiracy theory if they are telling you and showing you that that is exactly what they are attempting.... Having Trump already running in 2024 with a VP that will help overthrow a lost election. Sounds kinda out there. Now what I think the dems are really worried about is Trump running and winning. I didn't pick him in the primary's but did vote for him in the general. Trump tried to overturn a legitimate election including threatening state officials, and you think he won't try to overturn another one?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 22, 2022 16:05:54 GMT -5
Actually the VP thing is totally impossible for the 2024 election. The claim was that the VP would help overthrow an election. My contention was that finding one willing to try was easy. Whether it would succeed is what is actually in question. Are you saying that there could not be one willing to try, or that there would be zero chance of success? Those are very different matters. The VP who will count the 2024 electoral college votes in the house will be the current VP, Kamala Harris.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 22, 2022 16:08:12 GMT -5
Having Trump already running in 2024 with a VP that will help overthrow a lost election. Sounds kinda out there. Now what I think the dems are really worried about is Trump running and winning. I didn't pick him in the primary's but did vote for him in the general. Trump tried to overturn a legitimate election including threatening state officials, and you think he won't try to overturn another one? What state official?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 22, 2022 16:11:37 GMT -5
One of many.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 22, 2022 16:13:29 GMT -5
Did I make the claim, I might have? I think I said I believe there is plenty of election fraud. I never claim there was. Do you claim there wasn't? This has been studied repeatedly and no widespread fraud is ever found. More importantly, Trump and his cronies filed over 60 suits in various courts, and not one proceeded beyond the filing, because they could not supply proof. The onus is on those who make a claim to provide proud. It is almost impossible to prove a negative. You did claim there was plenty of fraud. Prove it or shut up about it. Trump should shut up. Just because you believe something that is untrue does not mean it should be taken seriously or accepted by others. As we say in medicine, show us the data I never said widespread fraud. I said penty, actually in one post I said there was voter fraud on both sides nothing that would change the outcome of the election. So no i'm not going to dig thru news clips to prove a few hundred mishandling or double voting. Guess what I don't have to shut up please feel free to block me.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 22, 2022 16:17:23 GMT -5
Many people here have provided links proving only a few hundred voting discrepancies out of millions of votes and most were be republicans. You are welcome to your opinion, but proof of the opposite have been provided. BTW many investigations were led by GOP elected leaders, i.e Attorney Generals.
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 22, 2022 16:17:50 GMT -5
Not even close to threatening. He said you know what they done and your not reporting it that is a criminal offense. If he would have said do what I want or you will be sorry that is a threat. Not reminding him of what is a criminal offense. People wonder why nothing will happen to Trump if this is what they have. Oh bother
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 22, 2022 16:19:26 GMT -5
Many people here have provided links proving only a few hundred voting discrepancies out of millions of votes and most were be republicans. You are welcome to your opinion, but proof of the opposite have been provided. BTW many investigations were led by GOP elected leaders, i.e Attorney Generals. And I agree with you
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 22, 2022 16:24:35 GMT -5
The claim was that the VP would help overthrow an election. My contention was that finding one willing to try was easy. Whether it would succeed is what is actually in question. Are you saying that there could not be one willing to try, or that there would be zero chance of success? Those are very different matters. The VP who will count the 2024 electoral college votes in the house will be the current VP, Kamala Harris. True, but I was thinking more generally. It would not put Trump into office in 2024, but would enable the overthrow of future elections.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2022 16:27:58 GMT -5
scgal:
i remember when Republicans were accusing Obama of wanting to eschew the election and appoint himself president for life. do you?
so, yeah, i am not doing any "whataboutism", but i just want to point this out. we were all laughing. so now it is your turn.
but i would also say that we are perfectly serious. since we have a guy who still think he is president running.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on May 22, 2022 16:36:44 GMT -5
trump is dangerous. He threatens and fires people to get his way. His "art of the deal." Remember him withholding military aid to Ukraine until they got dirt on Hunter Biden? Not someone I want in charge of anything. He will never be found guilty of anything, he even has said that. You are right he is always careful to be border line with words. But someday it will catch up to him.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 22, 2022 16:36:53 GMT -5
Trump lies. All the time. From the transcript of the call- In Pennsylvania, they had well over 200,000 more votes than they had people voting. And uh that doesn't play too well, and the legislature there is, which is Republican, is extremely activist and angry. I mean, there were other things also that were almost as bad as that. But, uh, they had as an example, in Michigan, a tremendous number of dead people that voted. I think it was I think, Mark, it was 18,000. Some unbelievably high number, much higher than yours, you were in the 4-5,000 category.
www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pennsylvania-2020-election-voter-turnout/
Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar says the more than 6.9 million Pennsylvanians who voted exceeded turnout in every presidential election since at least 1960. Not only that, but an apparently record-breaking 70.93% of voting-age Pennsylvanians voted, compared to 1960's record of 70.3%.
By comparison, about 6.1 million Pennsylvanians voted in the 2016 presidential election when 61 percent of the voting-age population voted.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2022 16:46:51 GMT -5
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 22, 2022 16:47:08 GMT -5
This has been studied repeatedly and no widespread fraud is ever found. More importantly, Trump and his cronies filed over 60 suits in various courts, and not one proceeded beyond the filing, because they could not supply proof. The onus is on those who make a claim to provide proud. It is almost impossible to prove a negative. You did claim there was plenty of fraud. Prove it or shut up about it. Trump should shut up. Just because you believe something that is untrue does not mean it should be taken seriously or accepted by others. As we say in medicine, show us the data I never said widespread fraud. I said penty, actually in one post I said there was voter fraud on both sides nothing that would change the outcome of the election. So no i'm not going to dig thru news clips to prove a few hundred mishandling or double voting. Guess what I don't have to shut up please feel free to block me. So you are just blowing smoke? Ok, nice of you to admit that
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 22, 2022 16:54:37 GMT -5
Elections can be contested and they need to be contested in a timely manner. There were lawsuits and recounts. None of the lawsuits had any merit and did not show examples of fraud. He can believe what he wants, but lying about his loss is dishonest. So is he lying because that is what he believes?[$b] I'm not talking proof just belief. I know it doesn't have any merit but I don't care that he think it does. trump knows he lost the 2020 election and the election was fair. But telling his supporters the 2020 election was fair would not get the same reaction from them as it does when he continues to claim it was not a fair election and his election was stolen from him and his supporters. If trump had conceded the election like every other past presidential candidate has done in the past after the election was called, would we really have had all these Republican controlled states changing their election laws and making it difficult for minorities and others to vote in future elections? I don't think so. It was a solution in search of a problem.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 22, 2022 17:02:10 GMT -5
Not even close to threatening. He said you know what they done and your not reporting it that is a criminal offense. If he would have said do what I want or you will be sorry that is a threat. Not reminding him of what is a criminal offense. People wonder why nothing will happen to Trump if this is what they have. Oh bother He was lying and planting multiple untrue stories. Here's just part of the transcript where he does this- Trump: Well, you better check the ballots because they are shredding ballots, Ryan. I'm just telling you, Ryan. They're shredding ballots. And you should look at that very carefully. Because that's so illegal. You know, you may not even believe it because it's so bad. But they're shredding ballots because they think we're going to eventually get ... because we'll eventually get into Fulton. In my opinion it's never too late. ... So, that's the story. Look, we need only 11,000 votes. We have are far more than that as it stands now. We'll have more and more. www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.htmlEarlier in the call, Raffensberger let's him know that old ballots were shredded, but Trump doesn't want the truth. He wants stories that make it sound like he won. I don't go to rallies. Don't intend to in the future, yet I've voted every time. Here's just part of Trump's reasoning in the call. (In the end its who shows up to vote, not who shows up to your speeches and merchandising parties.) I think it's pretty clear that we won. We won very substantially in Georgia. You even see it by rally size, frankly. We'd be getting 25-30,000 people a rally and the competition would get less than 100 people. And it never made sense.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 22, 2022 17:02:40 GMT -5
This has been studied repeatedly and no widespread fraud is ever found. More importantly, Trump and his cronies filed over 60 suits in various courts, and not one proceeded beyond the filing, because they could not supply proof. The onus is on those who make a claim to provide proud. It is almost impossible to prove a negative. You did claim there was plenty of fraud. Prove it or shut up about it. Trump should shut up. Just because you believe something that is untrue does not mean it should be taken seriously or accepted by others. As we say in medicine, show us the data I never said widespread fraud. I said penty, actually in one post I said there was voter fraud on both sides nothing that would change the outcome of the election. So no i'm not going to dig thru news clips to prove a few hundred mishandling or double voting. Guess what I don't have to shut up please feel free to block me. So, was there enough fraud to care about or not. You are backpedaling about your claim. I think plenty of fraud means it is substantial fraud. Was it significant. Do you believe it was significant even when you have been provided data to the contrary. So you just ignore truth to continue to believe falsehood? Continue to post nonsense and I will continue to call it out
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 22, 2022 18:38:43 GMT -5
Not even close to threatening. He said you know what they done and your not reporting it that is a criminal offense. If he would have said do what I want or you will be sorry that is a threat. Not reminding him of what is a criminal offense. People wonder why nothing will happen to Trump if this is what they have. Oh bother Not threatening? He threatened and he followed through. Trump has been on a raging vendetta to get both Kemp, the GA governor, and Raffensburger, the Secretary of State, to lose their re-election campaigns. He’s picked GOP opponents who start their campaign stump speeches with “Trump was cheated out of the 2020 election.” Trump picked Perdue, a former senator, to run against Kemp and threatened that if Kemp won the GOP primary (and he will, most likely) he would rather vote for Stacy Abrams, the Dem candidate for governor, than Kemp. The MAGA voters are parroting Trump and saying they won’t vote for Kemp. So just like Trump caused the GA GOP to lose both senate seats in 2021, he could lose the GA governor race for them this year - and you know what? He doesn’t care. Nothing matters to him except destroying his enemies and setting himself up for more grifting opportunities.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 22, 2022 18:50:59 GMT -5
Not even close to threatening. He said you know what they done and your not reporting it that is a criminal offense. If he would have said do what I want or you will be sorry that is a threat. Not reminding him of what is a criminal offense. People wonder why nothing will happen to Trump if this is what they have. Oh bother He was lying and planting multiple untrue stories. Here's just part of the transcript where he does this- Trump: Well, you better check the ballots because they are shredding ballots, Ryan. I'm just telling you, Ryan. They're shredding ballots. And you should look at that very carefully. Because that's so illegal. You know, you may not even believe it because it's so bad. But they're shredding ballots because they think we're going to eventually get ... because we'll eventually get into Fulton. In my opinion it's never too late. ... So, that's the story. Look, we need only 11,000 votes. We have are far more than that as it stands now. We'll have more and more. www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.htmlEarlier in the call, Raffensberger let's him know that old ballots were shredded, but Trump doesn't want the truth. He wants stories that make it sound like he won. I don't go to rallies. Don't intend to in the future, yet I've voted every time. Here's just part of Trump's reasoning in the call. (In the end its who shows up to vote, not who shows up to your speeches and merchandising parties.) I think it's pretty clear that we won. We won very substantially in Georgia. You even see it by rally size, frankly. We'd be getting 25-30,000 people a rally and the competition would get less than 100 people. And it never made sense.
Him and his stupid rally size obsession and his gross inflation of his own rally counts. Like rallies are like the TV ratings - high ratings mean people like you. Only they don’t - high ratings can also mean the show is a hot mess that people watch only to see what bursts into flame this episode. Just like the Trump admin used to be. The daily dumpster fire.
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