Moneyologist post

[Deleted]

I am curious as to what you guys think the OP should do.  The thread is about contacting a son that doesn't know his father is dead.  However, if the poster contacts him, he may make a claim on the non-existent estate.


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[TheHaitian]

Agree with the person that replied back: the son deserve to know. She should try to leave ex wife out of it, seems there some ill feelings/unresolved there, but definitely get to the son.

I don’t expect nothing from my biological father, but I would expect to be told if the sperm donor is dead just like they inform me when he had a stroke last year.

Maybe he was under the mother spell, maybe he was just a teenager. Let him have closure.

[Tennesseer]

I also agree with the reply writer.  I would not though send everything all at once.  I would send a few things first and if the son expressed any interest of other belongings then I would send pretty much all that remained.

If the son expresses making a claim on the estate,  get some legal advice. 

[Deleted]

I will admit that I am the letter writer.  DH told me not to notify them because he didn't want them to cause me trouble.  It is "easy" to say have a lawyer explain or give him a monetary gift.  But lawyers cost money as do monetary gifts.  And if he decides to sue me, I lose money even if I win.  I don't understand why it should cost me money to do the "right thing."  Maybe DH, but not me.  He really had nothing, not even a car.

I can't notify the son directly.  He has the #1 first name for the year he was born, the number #5 last name, and lives in one of the most populous states.  So his mom is the only avenue.  I sent most of the pictures home to DH's family.  I think I will label the box with DH's niece's address to be sent after I die.

I hate it.  I hate it so much.  But it truly is a Pandora's box.  And he and his mom have the friends'  address if they cared.

[gs11rmb]

@bamafan1954 I'm very sorry you're going through another hardship.  I do wonder though what claim an adult son would have on the estate of his married father?  His son isn't a minor who is legally entitled to support or a share of the estate.  

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2020 20:34:04 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

@bamafan1954 I'm very sorry you're going through another hardship.  I do wonder though what claim an adult son would have on the estate of his married father?  His son isn't a minor who is legally entitled to support or a share of the estate.  

Children do have a claim on their parent's estate, at least in Alabama.  DH didn't own anything, however.  

[gs11rmb]

Sept 14, 2020 20:36:53 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Sept 14, 2020 20:34:04 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

@bamafan1954 I'm very sorry you're going through another hardship.  I do wonder though what claim an adult son would have on the estate of his married father?  His son isn't a minor who is legally entitled to support or a share of the estate.  

Children do have a claim on their parent's estate, at least in Alabama.  DH didn't own anything, however.  

Even as adults?  So, people in Alabama must leave their children a portion of their estate?

ETA:  did your husband not have a will?

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2020 20:39:46 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Sept 14, 2020 20:36:53 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Children do have a claim on their parent's estate, at least in Alabama.  DH didn't own anything, however.  

Even as adults?  So, people in Alabama must leave their children a portion of their estate?

If you died intestate (without a will), yes.  But, again, DH had no assets that were not joint.  So basically no assets.

ETA: no will.  He wanted to leave money he didn't have to his goddaughter.  So I tabled that project since he had no assets.

The problem is that you lose even if you win if you have to hire a lawyer to defend you.  I don't want to pay a lawyer to do the "right thing" that only I care about.

[Tennesseer]

SouthernSusana - regarding your husband's belongings you might have identified as something his son might like.

Why not box it up with his name on it and safely store it.  Put something in your will that when you pass on the box of goods be sent to the son's last known address.  Then it is all in the man's hands.

You will have done your duty.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2020 21:14:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

SouthernSusana - regarding your husband's belongings you might have identified as something his son might like.

Why not box it up with his name on it and safely store it.  Put something in your will that when you pass on the box of goods be sent to the son's last known address.  Then it is all in the man's hands.

You will have done your duty.

THAT is a great idea.

[raeoflyte]

Can you send it to the neice who came to his service and ask her to pass it on?

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2020 21:20:55 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Can you send it to the neice who came to his service and ask her to pass it on?

Yes, that is exactly what I will do.  She got the other family pictures.

[Deleted]

Sept 14, 2020 22:22:34 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sept 14, 2020 20:43:16 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

If you died intestate (without a will), yes.  But, again, DH had no assets that were not joint.  So basically no assets.

ETA: no will.  He wanted to leave money he didn't have to his goddaughter.  So I tabled that project since he had no assets.

The problem is that you lose even if you win if you have to hire a lawyer to defend you.  I don't want to pay a lawyer to do the "right thing" that only I care about.

Isn't that a two way street?  Wouldn't the son also have to hire a lawyer and pay that lawyer regardless of the outcome?   I would think his lawyer might want some of the 'estate' money that would be recovered by the action... and so might try to persuade the son to NOT take action - if there isn't any estate.   Unless of course the son has piles of money he's willing to spend on this 

Or is this about child support that was never paid? That the son might try to get money he should have gotten when he was a minor?  

The person suing usually wins at least in my limited experience.  The other party has to hire a lawyer with no possibility of recovering costs.

Although I think DH and his then-wife worked the child support issue out, you are another vote to leave this alone.  DH had no money except SS.  The son was early 30s when we married.  This is nothing I want to deal with.  








to deal with. 

[Deleted]

My Ex died penniless and in deep debt. His wealthy sister paid for cremation. DS was next of kin. I consulted an attorney who said there was no reason to open an estate- there was really nothing to probate- and that if any creditors called us we should tell them there was no probate but they were free to open estate proceedings if they wanted to try and collect something. No one called us. Your situation sounds similar (minus the debt part)- I assume you didn't have the estate probated because there was little there. I didn't do that for my DH, either- we'd put everything in my name except for his checking account which had about $300 in it. He did have a will which left everything to me but I didn't open an estate.

Long story short- if the son tries to claim an inheritance, tell him there were no estate proceedings because the assets were minimal, and that he can start proceedings if he wants to. I doubt he will- no attorney will take it on with no likelihood of any recovery. You can also file an "Affidavit of Small Estate" with the court- DS had to do that to claim Unclaimed funds in is Dad's name.

Here's one of many links describing what happens to the estate if someone dies without a will- typically there are "default" percentages, with the widow receiving half or more- but I doubt they'd be a factor here.

estate.findlaw.com/wills/what-happens-if-i-die-without-a-will-.html#:~:text=If%20you%20die%20without%20a%20will%2C%20it%20means%20you%20have,at%20the%20time%20of%20death.

I am NOT an attorney. I don't play one on TV. I hope swamp and any other real ones will chime in.

[Deleted]

I spent a lot of time thinking about what I would want to happen if I sent this stuff to DH's son.

The truth is that I want to rewrite history.  He and DH would have this wonderful reunion, and the son would realize what an awesome man his father was.

Only that won't happen because DH is dead.  So the son is either going to be relatively indifferent or interested in what his father may have left.

I am going to leave this alone.  If the son wants to know what happened to his father, he can ask his mother.  She can direct him to DH's good friends, whom the son actually knew.  He probably even remembers their name.  They live where they always did.  Or she can direct him to DH's family, who also live where they always did.  

[stillmovingforward]

Good choice.

[swamp]

Sept 14, 2020 20:34:04 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

@bamafan1954 I'm very sorry you're going through another hardship.  I do wonder though what claim an adult son would have on the estate of his married father?  His son isn't a minor who is legally entitled to support or a share of the estate.  

NY intestate succession laws provide a share of the estate to the children,, provided teh estate exceeds $50,000.  

[Bonny]

@bamafan 1954,

Your post is timely. I'm sort on the receiving end of this situation. My dad is probably a week or two from passing. Friday I made arrangements for my brother and I to do a last visit (later today). When I called the girlfriend to let her know she too, could make arrangements to see him and that I needed some paperwork for a military internment of his ashes she informed me that she threw out all of his stuff.

I was so shocked I was speechless. 

She knows how to reach me. And while most of my dad's stuff truly is worthless there was sentimental value in the photos and some records.

You're doing the right thing.

And if it makes any sense is it possible that the ex-wife basically poisoned his son from his father? If you listen to my MIL, DH's father was the devil incarnate. And when she gets mad at DH she says he's just like him. If he didn't have a lot of support from other family members he might actually believe her.

[HoneyBBQ]

Wow @southernsusan and Bonny. That is a lot for you guys to deal with. I hope you all find resolutions that you are able to live with and move on. There is no right or wrong answer.

The only suggestion I have is that maybe friends or people who served with your H (Southern) may be interested in a remembrance? When my spouse's Dad died, he left behind a lot of boy scout memorabilia. He looked up old troop masters and people that were in his troop and distributed it out. Just an idea.

[Bonny]

Sept 15, 2020 10:51:12 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Wow @southernsusan and Bonny . That is a lot for you guys to deal with. I hope you all find resolutions that you are able to live with and move on. There is no right or wrong answer.

The only suggestion I have is that maybe friends or people who served with your H (Southern) may be interested in a remembrance? When my spouse's Dad died, he left behind a lot of boy scout memorabilia. He looked up old troop masters and people that were in his troop and distributed it out. Just an idea.

I'm committed to taking the high road. She'll be invited to whatever ceremony we arrange but I doubt there will be any contact after that.

[TheOtherMe]

Hugs Bonny  

I'm sorry everything was tossed out.  Most likely there were things of sentimental value.

[Deleted]

Different note, but maybe swamp can explain the reasoning behind this.  In my will, the lawyer put in phrasing that basically said I was intentionally making no provision for DH's children or their offspring.  DH was already dead at this point.

I thought it was curious that I had to "disinherit" the son, but did as I was told. 

[swamp]

Sept 15, 2020 11:26:39 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Different note, but maybe swamp can explain the reasoning behind this.  In my will, the lawyer put in phrasing that basically said I was intentionally making no provision for DH's children or their offspring.  DH was already dead at this point.

I thought it was curious that I had to "disinherit" the son, but did as I was told. 

It makes it crystal clear what your intentions are.   It's not legally necessary, but it helps.   

[busymom]

I approve of your decision, @bamafan1954, and admire that you're trying to do the right thing in a difficult situation.


I did have another thought:  Facebook.    I've managed to track down some old friends that way.  Any idea if the son has a Facebook account?

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2020 11:52:10 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 15, 2020 11:26:39 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Different note, but maybe swamp can explain the reasoning behind this.  In my will, the lawyer put in phrasing that basically said I was intentionally making no provision for DH's children or their offspring.  DH was already dead at this point.

I thought it was curious that I had to "disinherit" the son, but did as I was told. 

It makes it crystal clear what your intentions are.   It's not legally necessary, but it helps.   

I learned in Business Law that it would prove that you didn't just forget to include them, so they couldn't contest the will on that basis.

I've probably told this story before, but worth repeating:  I knew of one attorney who left his son 30 dimes in his will.  That was back when dimes were made of silver.   Yeah, 30 pieces of silver.

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2020 12:30:28 GMT -5 busymom said:

I approve of your decision, @bamafan1954 , and admire that you're trying to do the right thing in a difficult situation.


I did have another thought:  Facebook.    I've managed to track down some old friends that way.  Any idea if the son has a Facebook account?

The name is too common. 

Anyway, as I said, I've decided that I really am trying to rewrite the past, which can't be done.  

[Deleted]

Sept 15, 2020 12:37:07 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Sept 15, 2020 11:52:10 GMT -5 swamp said:

It makes it crystal clear what your intentions are.   It's not legally necessary, but it helps.   

I learned in Business Law that it would prove that you didn't just forget to include them, so they couldn't contest the will on that basis.

I've probably told this story before, but worth repeating:  I knew of one attorney who left his son 30 dimes in his will.  That was back when dimes were made of silver.   Yeah, 30 pieces of silver.

Nice sense of irony.

However, DH's son is not related to me so I am surprised that there would be any presumption that he might inherit if I didn't exclude him.

But the attorney specializes in elder law so he probably has seen stepchildren contest their stepparent's will.  The other thing that was interesting was that I made a small monetary bequest to my sister.  The will specifically says that that bequest does not go to her children if she predeceases me.  I wouldn't have thought that it would, but as Swamp says, it makes my intentions very clear.

[TheOtherMe]

My will specifies that I am not leaving anything to my half-sister.  I was advised to do that because we are related by blood and I am not married.

The last time I wrote this, people jumped on me.  My dad left her $1.00.  Yes, $1.00.  His attorney advised he leave her something, as big or small as he wanted.  They have not talked on the phone in at least 40 years.  They have no relationship besides exchanging Christmas cards.  There was nothing written in the cards other than signing their names.

We did not call her when dad died.  She knows because the attorney sent her the letter including the will.  She did not contest the will.  Her dollar has been mailed to her.  No one knows if what she did with the envelope.

Please DO NOT criticize my dad for his decision.  After getting the divorce decree, I understand the situation better than I did before I read it.  

Dad made this decision about 20 years ago.  He did not have dementia when he made the decision.  He knew what he wanted to do.  I'm certain there is more to it than I was ever told and that information went to his grave with him.

[tskeeter]

Sept 15, 2020 10:43:53 GMT -5 Bonny said:

@bamafan 1954,

Your post is timely. I'm sort on the receiving end of this situation. My dad is probably a week or two from passing. Friday I made arrangements for my brother and I to do a last visit (later today). When I called the girlfriend to let her know she too, could make arrangements to see him and that I needed some paperwork for a military internment of his ashes she informed me that she threw out all of his stuff.

I was so shocked I was speechless. 

She knows how to reach me. And while most of my dad's stuff truly is worthless there was sentimental value in the photos and some records.

You're doing the right thing.

And if it makes any sense is it possible that the ex-wife basically poisoned his son from his father? If you listen to my MIL, DH's father was the devil incarnate. And when she gets mad at DH she says he's just like him. If he didn't have a lot of support from other family members he might actually believe her.

Bonny, I think you will find the National cemetery system easy to work with.  With a staff made up of veterans, they really act as though their mission is to ensure that deceased veterans receive the honor and respect they deserve. 

I think the only documents the cemetery wanted when we buried my Dad was his DD-214 (his discharge document) and a death certificate.  In addition to the original DD-214, Dad had a wallet sized copy.  So you might want to check your Dad’s wallet to see if he has the wallet version, too.

Even if you can’t find Dad’s DD-214, talk to the staff at the cemetery.  I’m sure they’ve dealt with lost DD-214’s before and have a procedure to handle the situation.  If you can, ask your Dad for his service ID number.  Knowing Dad’s ID will be helpful in establishing that he is eligible for veteran’s benefits.  Information about places he was stationed or ships Dad served on might also be helpful to ensure that your Dad’s information gets attached to the correct person’s service record.

[bobosensei]

Sept 15, 2020 13:06:06 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Sept 15, 2020 12:37:07 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I learned in Business Law that it would prove that you didn't just forget to include them, so they couldn't contest the will on that basis.

I've probably told this story before, but worth repeating:  I knew of one attorney who left his son 30 dimes in his will.  That was back when dimes were made of silver.   Yeah, 30 pieces of silver.

Nice sense of irony.

However, DH's son is not related to me so I am surprised that there would be any presumption that he might inherit if I didn't exclude him.

But the attorney specializes in elder law so he probably has seen stepchildren contest their stepparent's will.  The other thing that was interesting was that I made a small monetary bequest to my sister.  The will specifically says that that bequest does not go to her children if she predeceases me.  I wouldn't have thought that it would, but as Swamp says, it makes my intentions very clear.

I would recommend keeping whatever information you have supporting that your DH had nothing of value and only got SS during the marriage.  The presumption could be that anything accumulated during your marriage was half your DH's, and therefore x percent should go to his son.  And the son could try to sue at your death making it your kid's problem to fight.

I don't know that I would pass anything on to the son since he was an adult for long enough to have reached out on his own if he wanted, and you said that mutual friends tried to connect when your DH was sick.  I know you feel bad about it, but it wasn't your fence to mend.

When my mom's dad died there was a huge fight.  My nanny had promised giving a truck to our family and asked about guns and other keepsakes.  We also knew pawpaw had an insurance policy she would would split between his first 3 kids.  Well, my grandmother instigated my aunt into starting all kinds of trouble, and talked her into filing a lawsuit.  Nanny lived in Alabama at the time, but I know my mom said pawpaw always put everything in her name only.  So even though she never worked outside the home the assets were in her name because my grandmother was a vengeful alcoholic.  Nanny was so upset I'm not sure if we got anything at all.  If we did it was only a few thousand dollars.  We later re-established a relationship with her, but I remember my mom being so mad at everyone at the time.  And that was when I found out my aunt was the product of an affair that  my grandmother had and what prompted the divorce.  My mom and everyone else on his side of the family said she looked just like the man who ran the gas station down the road...but this was all 30 years ago so take it with a grain of salt.