Sturgis tied to 250,000 corona virus cases

[swamp]

Interesting.     I don't understand how the cell phone data can tell us this number, but I'm not surprised the rally is connected to a spread of cases. 

www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/09/sturgis-motorcycle-rally-is-now-linked-to-more-than-250000-coronavirus-cases/?fbclid=IwAR0-VNk-wM1DPD5R48UWkvJ83aYN_Sxje7e7wtKnZ6cJitLAOj2Oif3oXaQ

[busymom]

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not.  The Sturgis gathering is HUGE.  I had a former coworker who used to ride there with her husband every year, and she'd bring back pictures to show us.  It'd definitely be an interesting place to people watch. 


Remember, the locals were outvoted on whether or not to hold the rally.  The people said "no", but the local government & business interests said "yes".  And now the people will suffer for it. 

[giramomma]

It doesn't surprise me.

The Biogen Conference in Boston in Spring  could have led about 20K cases.

www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/25/an-early-covid-19-outbreak-at-one-boston-conference-may-have-led-to-20000-infections-researchers-estimate/#7ba56ba071f1

I've read somewhere else that there were like 100 or so folks at the conference.

[thyme4change]

How are there no reports of any contagion due to the many, many BLM protests? I am a good leftist liberal, voting straight ticket blue and gag whenever I think about Trump being our president, but the fact that we really haven't heard much about spread after literally millions of people walked the streets together makes me wonder if we are missing a piece of the story. I know, they were outside and we saw people wearing masks - but not everyone. They were shouting (which is bad) singing (which is bad), walking close together, etc. And most of Sturgis is outside - although I am guessing mask wearing was minimal. It just doesn't seem right.


Unless God IS [/i] using Covid to do his work.....

[jerseygirl]

In NY not allowed to collect info on participation in protests - nothing there, move on!!

[movingforward]

I'm sure Sturgis increased the spread, not sure about these numbers... There is no real data displayed.

At this point, I find the media on both sides a bit erroneous.

Okay, one side bit more erroneous...my accountant said he heard only 6% of the reported deaths are actually due to COVID-19. Seriously...that would have to be the biggest conspiracy ever. Getting hundreds upon hundreds of doctors to sign death certificates...geez, not sure what right wing radio nut he heard that one from.

[thyme4change]

Sept 8, 2020 18:30:42 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

In NY not allowed to collect info on participation in protests - nothing there, move on!!

There arr many ways to make data anonymous. I am not sure the government chipped everyone at Sturgis and followed their medical problems. There must be self reporting at some level.

Also, if there were statistical models, there isnt anyone out there trying to pin increases on the protests. And I don't believe it is because every single person that works in science and epidemic modeling is a crazy-ass loptilou fanatical socialist that is purposely lying to make Trump look bad. That is a ridiculous thought process.

[alabamagal]

Sept 8, 2020 12:29:52 GMT -5 busymom said:

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not.  The Sturgis gathering is HUGE.  I had a former coworker who used to ride there with her husband every year, and she'd bring back pictures to show us.  It'd definitely be an interesting place to people watch. 


Remember, the locals were outvoted on whether or not to hold the rally.  The people said "no", but the local government & business interests said "yes".  And now the people will suffer for it. 

Since it is mostly an informal gathering, it is pretty difficult to stop it. The bikers would still show up. Kind of like back on the 80s when Ft. Laudetdale tried to stop spring break. Started with a lot of restrictions, but college students still showed up for several years until they found another place to hang out. Took several years to significantly slow it down.

[dannylion]

Sept 8, 2020 18:17:59 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

How are there no reports of any contagion due to the many, many BLM protests? I am a good leftist liberal, voting straight ticket blue and gag whenever I think about Trump being our president, but the fact that we really haven't heard much about spread after literally millions of people walked the streets together makes me wonder if we are missing a piece of the story. I know, they were outside and we saw people wearing masks - but not everyone. They were shouting (which is bad) singing (which is bad), walking close together, etc. And most of Sturgis is outside - although I am guessing mask wearing was minimal. It just doesn't seem right.

In many of the pictures from the BLM protests, it looked like a lot of folks were wearing masks.  Apparently the Sturgis attendees were mostly not wearing masks.  Also, the protests are taking place outdoors while many of the Sturgis venues were indoors in close quarters (bars, restaurants, tattoo parlors, etc.).  

[Opti]

Sept 8, 2020 18:17:59 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

How are there no reports of any contagion due to the many, many BLM protests? I am a good leftist liberal, voting straight ticket blue and gag whenever I think about Trump being our president, but the fact that we really haven't heard much about spread after literally millions of people walked the streets together makes me wonder if we are missing a piece of the story. I know, they were outside and we saw people wearing masks - but not everyone. They were shouting (which is bad) singing (which is bad), walking close together, etc. And most of Sturgis is outside - although I am guessing mask wearing was minimal. It just doesn't seem right.


Unless God IS

[/i] using Covid to do his work.....
[/quote]

What I read is many of the Sturgis attendees hung out together mask-less in bars. 

[chiver78]

Sept 8, 2020 13:31:20 GMT -5 giramomma said:

It doesn't surprise me.

The Biogen Conference in Boston in Spring  could have led about 20K cases.

www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/25/an-early-covid-19-outbreak-at-one-boston-conference-may-have-led-to-20000-infections-researchers-estimate/#7ba56ba071f1

I've read somewhere else that there were like 100 or so folks at the conference.

it may have been 200 or so. all upper management, from around the world and not just even New England. biotechnology is a small industry, and most of us all know each other. a conference like this one was a lot of longtime colleagues reuniting in person for the first time in awhile, and I'm actually shocked the spread wasn't worse. that's why it spread so far, so quickly. (I live in MA, and work in pharma in Cambridge. well, until last March, anyway. my office is a couple streets over from Biogen HQ.)

[kadee79]

No link, but saw some place that the Sturgis spread cost our health care 12.2 BILLION!

[billisonboard]

Sept 8, 2020 19:55:05 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

No link, but saw some place that the Sturgis spread cost our health care 12.2 BILLION!

I am thinking I read the same thing somewhere.


Wait, I remember where - in the link in the OP of this thread.

[NastyWoman]

Sept 8, 2020 19:04:33 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Sept 8, 2020 18:17:59 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

How are there no reports of any contagion due to the many, many BLM protests? I am a good leftist liberal, voting straight ticket blue and gag whenever I think about Trump being our president, but the fact that we really haven't heard much about spread after literally millions of people walked the streets together makes me wonder if we are missing a piece of the story. I know, they were outside and we saw people wearing masks - but not everyone. They were shouting (which is bad) singing (which is bad), walking close together, etc. And most of Sturgis is outside - although I am guessing mask wearing was minimal. It just doesn't seem right.

In many of the pictures from the BLM protests, it looked like a lot of folks were wearing masks.  Apparently the Sturgis attendees were mostly not wearing masks.  Also, the protests are taking place outdoors while many of the Sturgis venues were indoors in close quarters (bars, restaurants, tattoo parlors, etc.).  

those are the exact reasons I have seen quoted. It does fit in with the recommendations of the CDC of wearing masks and avoiding prolonged indoor gatherings 

[thyme4change]

Sept 8, 2020 19:59:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 8, 2020 19:55:05 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

No link, but saw some place that the Sturgis spread cost our health care 12.2 BILLION!

I am thinking I read the same thing somewhere.


Wait, I remember where - in the link in the OP of this thread.

🤣😂🤣

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 8, 2020 20:00:58 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Sept 8, 2020 19:04:33 GMT -5 dannylion said:

In many of the pictures from the BLM protests, it looked like a lot of folks were wearing masks.  Apparently the Sturgis attendees were mostly not wearing masks.  Also, the protests are taking place outdoors while many of the Sturgis venues were indoors in close quarters (bars, restaurants, tattoo parlors, etc.).  

those are the eact reasons I have seen quoted. It does fit in with the recommendations of the CDC of wearing masks and avoiding prolonged indoor gatherings 

The study that was done (not peer reviewed) suggested that the Sturgis attendees did not spread as much disease in states where there was more compliant mask wearing and social distancing.  

[Tiny]

Sept 8, 2020 18:17:59 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

How are there no reports of any contagion due to the many, many BLM protests? I am a good leftist liberal, voting straight ticket blue and gag whenever I think about Trump being our president, but the fact that we really haven't heard much about spread after literally millions of people walked the streets together makes me wonder if we are missing a piece of the story. I know, they were outside and we saw people wearing masks - but not everyone. They were shouting (which is bad) singing (which is bad), walking close together, etc. And most of Sturgis is outside - although I am guessing mask wearing was minimal. It just doesn't seem right.


Unless God IS using Covid to do his work.....

I'm guessing it's because you are comparing two different kinds of events - Sturgis 10s of thousands of people coming together for MULTIPLE days and nights (spending the night in hotel rooms or tents, eating in groups, talking in groups, drinking in groups that probably change often during the day) versus a protest which I'm guessing would be thousands (or even 10s of thousands)  of local people leaving their home, coming together locally for the day to march, and then going home in the evening (after the protest) and then NOT going to another large gathering the next day...

I'm not sure 10's of thousands of non-local people converged on a protest march and then packed up the "caravan" to move to the next protest...

When I've gone and marched in protests in the past - I and maybe a couple friends OR the person/group linking me to the protest would usually have a meet up place the day of the protest (near a public transportation stop OR near the parking garage(s) we would be parking our cars) and then we'd walk over to the protest sight and wait for it to start (or if we were helping with something - like passing out flyers or what ever we'd "get our instructions" and go do that..). We tended to "socialize" a bit with other people (mostly small talk) unless we actually KNEW someone from another group. We'd march, we'd listen to speeches, we'd head back to our cars/public transportation for the ride home. My "group" MIGHT decide to grab some food - but it would just be us - we'd most likely NOT run into other protesters we'd been with.   I'm pretty sure the majority of the protesters were local - I'm sure there were some out of town folks but they would have been in the minority.  

Even when all of the office workers poured out of buildings and filled the streets for a 911 memorial - we were only "together" for about 2 hours. That wasn't really a protest - but it had some of the qualities... lots of people, people giving speeches, and a unifying theme.

Even when several HUNDRED THOUSAND people converged in Chicago for the Women's March in 2017 - I'm guessing a lot them came from the local area (chicago's got a population of 3milion) and then went home afterwards.   I'm sure some came from out of town - but I wouldn't be surprised if they just went home (even if it was a 2 or 3 hour drive).   I'm sure some number of them spent the night in a hotel or at friends.   It all happened in one day - and the majority of people only had contact with the people they went with or met at the March.   There wasn't a lot of time to socialize.   
I think of Sturgis more like a convention - people spending lots of time together non-stop 24 hours a day  for many days.

(the biggest convention I've been to was 60,000 plus people together for 4 days... people were together everywhere - the convention ballrooms, the hotel lobbies, the hotel elevator bays, the streets, the restaurants, EVERYWHERE pretty much 24 hours a day. In an area maybe 6 city blocks by 5 city blocks (the convention center and the hotels and the surrounding "downtown area").  For four days I was surrounded day and night by people who had similar interests to me!  It was amazing and fun.    I imagine sturgis was a bit like that - 10's of thousands of people in a fixed area socializing for DAYS.

[bookkeeper]

I think the headline is somewhat misleading.  Immediately after the rally, over 300 cases of covid could be traced back to rally goers.  After everyone left, the city of Sturgis covid tested every city employee and any city resident that wanted a test. The city council had quite a predicament when deciding to host the rally or not.  The majority of the tax revenue for the year comes from the rally event.  If the city officially canceled the rally and people came anyway, there would be no garbage pick up, portable toilets, additional law enforcement, first responders, etc.  These services must be planned in advance or people will get hurt.  The other back story about the rally, is that the campgrounds outside of the city limit of Sturgis do not pay city taxes and therefore do not contribute to the ambulance service.  The city has refused to provide ambulance service to these campgrounds which swell to the size a a small town during the rally. These campgrounds outside the city limits stated early on that the rally was going to happen outside of the city limits no matter what.  So, a bit of a pissing match going on there that forced the city to go forward.

The 4th of July spectacular with our governor Kristi Noem and her favorite president at Mount Rushmore opened up a flood gate of tourism that continued through the rally.  Our governor basically invited everyone to come, and bring your covid with you!

I stayed home for both events.

[thyme4change]

Sept 9, 2020 7:37:35 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

I think the headline is somewhat misleading.  Immediately after the rally, over 300 cases of covid could be traced back to rally goers.  After everyone left, the city of Sturgis covid tested every city employee and any city resident that wanted a test. The city council had quite a predicament when deciding to host the rally or not.  The majority of the tax revenue for the year comes from the rally event.  If the city officially canceled the rally and people came anyway, there would be no garbage pick up, portable toilets, additional law enforcement, first responders, etc.  These services must be planned in advance or people will get hurt.  The other back story about the rally, is that the campgrounds outside of the city limit of Sturgis do not pay city taxes and therefore do not contribute to the ambulance service.  The city has refused to provide ambulance service to these campgrounds which swell to the size a a small town during the rally. These campgrounds outside the city limits stated early on that the rally was going to happen outside of the city limits no matter what.  So, a bit of a pissing match going on there that forced the city to go forward.

The 4th of July spectacular with our governor Kristi Noem and her favorite president at Mount Rushmore opened up a flood gate of tourism that continued through the rally.  Our governor basically invited everyone to come, and bring your covid with you!

I stayed home for both events.

If every one of those 300 gave it to 2 people, and all of those people gave it to 2 people and so on....how long does it take to get to 250,000? Were those 300 all in South Dakota? Does it include people that brought it back to other areas?

[bookkeeper]

Yes, the infection rate grows exponentially.  That 300 figure was a preliminary number of people who had attended and contracted covid, no matter where they were from.

The South Dakota infection rate took a big jump after the Sturgis rally and the subsequent start of school.  It has declined last week.  Iowa is on freaking fire!

The infection numbers are a political game as well.  Our governor is not above manipulating the Department of Health for her own purposes.

[nidena]

Within minutes of sharing the link to my FB, a friend of mine--a motorcycle enthusiast and stauch Trump supporter--commented "Fake News".  Another friend asked "Why is this fake news?" and the conversation went from there.  Obviously, the first friend disagreed with the stats in the article.  My response: I'm not having this conversation.

[justme]

Sept 9, 2020 8:13:54 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Sept 9, 2020 7:37:35 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

I think the headline is somewhat misleading.  Immediately after the rally, over 300 cases of covid could be traced back to rally goers.  After everyone left, the city of Sturgis covid tested every city employee and any city resident that wanted a test. The city council had quite a predicament when deciding to host the rally or not.  The majority of the tax revenue for the year comes from the rally event.  If the city officially canceled the rally and people came anyway, there would be no garbage pick up, portable toilets, additional law enforcement, first responders, etc.  These services must be planned in advance or people will get hurt.  The other back story about the rally, is that the campgrounds outside of the city limit of Sturgis do not pay city taxes and therefore do not contribute to the ambulance service.  The city has refused to provide ambulance service to these campgrounds which swell to the size a a small town during the rally. These campgrounds outside the city limits stated early on that the rally was going to happen outside of the city limits no matter what.  So, a bit of a pissing match going on there that forced the city to go forward.

The 4th of July spectacular with our governor Kristi Noem and her favorite president at Mount Rushmore opened up a flood gate of tourism that continued through the rally.  Our governor basically invited everyone to come, and bring your covid with you!

I stayed home for both events.

If every one of those 300 gave it to 2 people, and all of those people gave it to 2 people and so on....how long does it take to get to 250,000? Were those 300 all in South Dakota? Does it include people that brought it back to other areas?

If you keep it at 2, it takes 9 steps to get to 153k and 10 to get to 307k.

Change it to 3 people and you hit 218k at step 6. 4 people gets it to 307k on step 5. 

Though there's also a question on whether there were more than 300 slightly less than immediately after.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 9, 2020 9:43:53 GMT -5 nidena said:

Within minutes of sharing the link to my FB, a friend of mine--a motorcycle enthusiast and stauch Trump supporter--commented "Fake News".  Another friend asked "Why is this fake news?" and the conversation went from there.  Obviously, the first friend disagreed with the stats in the article.  My response: I'm not having this conversation.

Put that "Fake News" Facebook friend on 30-snooze. And then when 30 days is up, put him on another 30-day snooze.

[thyme4change]

I have now snoozed a few people. One of them I never really liked, and I am happy to find a way to get him off my feed, even if he never talks about politics ever. He is just a jerk about everything.

The other one - I was also never a huge fan of hers in person, but she always posted cute pictures of her family and I enjoyed looking at her trips, etc. Recently, she has gone full on QAnon crazy pants. Total deep end. I'm cool if you have different political opinions, but she was raging incoherently, including telling someone they weren't a "real man" because her disagreed with her. Fake numbers, masks only to test our obedience, pedophilia rings, etc. Total tin foil hat stuff. She had several people (who I dont know) disagreeing with her, but nobody really joining in - not even on her least crazy stuff.

Her going that deep rocked me a little. I have several independent connections to her. Now I am trying to figure out which ones might be walking the same path but either aren't as far along or are just quieter about their belief that Tom Hanks eats babies (or whatever). My husband thinks her fabulous lifestyle is financially ruined by this and that is why she has globbed onto anything to explain why it isn't her fault. There is ample reason to believe they were living way outside their means when things were good.

Hopefully she is an outlier and there are more normal people out there than not.

[tractor]

Sturgis had over 480,000 attendees this year (I was there last week, just passing through). I’m sure the place was overrun, as always although most of it takes place out on huge campgrounds just outside of town. They also stopped at every bar within 200 miles to/from the rally.

I saw many pictures posted of topless women, chaps, and old fat guys... I have no doubt it increased the numbers, the amount quoted seems high, but everything is overstated these days.

[tcu2003]

Sept 9, 2020 10:49:18 GMT -5 tractor said:

Sturgis had over 480,000 attendees this year (I was there last week, just passing through). I’m sure the place was overrun, as always although most of it takes place out on huge campgrounds just outside of town. They also stopped at every bar within 200 miles to/from the rally.

I saw many pictures posted of topless women, chaps, and old fat guys... I have no doubt it increased the numbers, the amount quoted seems high, but everything is overstated these days.

I might have passed you! We were in SD last week!

There was definitely not a lot of mask-wearing by locals in SD, which doesn’t help anything. We wore our masks, and a few corporate type places mandate them (ie all hotels in the Marriott family), but lots of independently owned restaurants (chain or not) did not have a mandate for their employees to wear masks.

[TheOtherMe]

Sept 9, 2020 10:05:52 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 9, 2020 9:43:53 GMT -5 nidena said:

Within minutes of sharing the link to my FB, a friend of mine--a motorcycle enthusiast and stauch Trump supporter--commented "Fake News".  Another friend asked "Why is this fake news?" and the conversation went from there.  Obviously, the first friend disagreed with the stats in the article.  My response: I'm not having this conversation.

Put that "Fake News" Facebook friend on 30-snooze. And then when 30 days is up, put him on another 30-day snooze.

I've stopped snoozing that crowd.  I'm unfriending them, whether they be a real life friend, family member or online friend.  I'm not reading any more of that BS.

I also have reported several posts for racism and fake news.  I know one I reported for racism got the person a 7 day time out and the person still doesn't understand why it was racist.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 9, 2020 10:02:54 GMT -5 justme said:

Sept 9, 2020 8:13:54 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If every one of those 300 gave it to 2 people, and all of those people gave it to 2 people and so on....how long does it take to get to 250,000? Were those 300 all in South Dakota? Does it include people that brought it back to other areas?

If you keep it at 2, it takes 9 steps to get to 153k and 10 to get to 307k.

Change it to 3 people and you hit 218k at step 6. 4 people gets it to 307k on step 5. 

Though there's also a question on whether there were more than 300 slightly less than immediately after.

3-4 infections from each case was calculated early in the pandemic.  The optimal goal was to get it under 1 with mask wearing, social distancing and contact tracing.  

[NastyWoman]

Sept 8, 2020 21:15:33 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 8, 2020 20:00:58 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

those are the eact reasons I have seen quoted. It does fit in with the recommendations of the CDC of wearing masks and avoiding prolonged indoor gatherings 

The study that was done (not peer reviewed) suggested that the Sturgis attendees did not spread as much disease in states where there was more compliant mask wearing and social distancing.  

I saw a report like that too. If true, and it seems plausible to me, it is once again the people who act responsibly who pull the asses of the idiots out of the fire. I am getting more than a little tired of these special snowflakes who feel that it is their "right" to behave as they please thereby putting others at risk.

They have reached the point that they need to do away with a plethora of laws like drunk driving? Others should just stay home so the drunk driver can't hit them. We also need to have women stay indoors at all times, so as not to restrict the date rapist in his movements any time. And on and on. IDIOTS