billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2020 11:01:02 GMT -5
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 11:13:49 GMT -5
I wonder how many more of these stories that we need to hear until people take this seriously? As of 2019 there are 400,000 deaths due to smoking related causes. Cigarettes are still legal to sell. We might have a way to go on covid 19 deaths. Maybe we should outlaw cigarette smoking and remove all subsidies for tobacco farming. If we were serious about tackling the problem. But, your smoking is not a contagious problem, and as long as it is limited so as not to affect me, you are free to destroy your health in any manner yu choose. Once you risk my health, the calculation changes. |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 19:00:24 GMT -5
I wonder how many more of these stories that we need to hear until people take this seriously? As of 2019 there are 400,000 deaths due to smoking related causes. Cigarettes are still legal to sell. We might have a way to go on covid 19 deaths. I'm cool making them illegal. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 11:34:02 GMT -5
As of 2019 there are 400,000 deaths due to smoking related causes. Cigarettes are still legal to sell. We might have a way to go on covid 19 deaths. I'm cool making them illegal. Me too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 11:49:33 GMT -5
As of 2019 there are 400,000 deaths due to smoking related causes. Cigarettes are still legal to sell. We might have a way to go on covid 19 deaths. Maybe we should outlaw cigarette smoking and remove all subsidies for tobacco farming. If we were serious about tackling the problem. But, your smoking is not a contagious problem, and as long as it is limited so as not to affect me, you are free to destroy your health in any manner yu choose. Once you risk my health, the calculation changes. My answer was in context to the post I was answering. RE; How many stories need to be heard. Not whatever you're projecting here. However...in this post you do mention "free to destroy your health" as long as it doesn't affect you. Doesn't sit well with your previous statement about shared health expense.  With that being said, should I ask questions like you do ? Like... So you're ok with big much bigger healthcare expense for smoking, but it's not ok for Covid 19 ? |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 15, 2020 12:34:54 GMT -5
Maybe we should outlaw cigarette smoking and remove all subsidies for tobacco farming. If we were serious about tackling the problem. But, your smoking is not a contagious problem, and as long as it is limited so as not to affect me, you are free to destroy your health in any manner yu choose. Once you risk my health, the calculation changes. My answer was in context to the post I was answering. RE; How many stories need to be heard. Not whatever you're projecting here. However...in this post you do mention "free to destroy your health" as long as it doesn't affect you. Doesn't sit well with your previous statement about shared health expense. With that being said, should I ask questions like you do ? Like... So you're ok with big much bigger healthcare expense for smoking, but it's not ok for Covid 19 ? I think smoking should be outlawed, however, given the experience with prohibition and illegal drugs, I am not sure that it will not cause bigger problems, so removing subsidies, taxing it to recover some of the costs, and restricting it is a more practical approach. I believe this is a real world, and not a utopian idea. The costs of COVID are inseparable from the economic damage an uncontrolled infectious disease will do. By trying to mitigate it effects, it will save money in both the short and medium term, at the same time saving many lives. A coherent and effective national response would put us in a better place. If you compare where we are compared to the EU, I would say they are likely going to have a quicker economic recovery, a better health outcome, and fewer overall deaths than us. |
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jul 15, 2020 12:55:48 GMT -5
I wonder how many more of these stories that we need to hear until people take this seriously? Many of the people that need to hear this will feel it is fake news and disregard it. |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 15, 2020 13:28:30 GMT -5
I wonder how many more of these stories that we need to hear until people take this seriously? Many of the people that need to hear this will feel it is fake news and disregard it. ...and yet, they'll believe the incoherent shit show spouted by a demented old fool completely detached from reality. "Biden is anti-windows". Right. |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 15, 2020 13:55:49 GMT -5
I wonder how many more of these stories that we need to hear until people take this seriously? As of 2019 there are 400,000 deaths due to smoking related causes. Cigarettes are still legal to sell. We might have a way to go on covid 19 deaths. Yeah, I know.. it's a wonder we bother to do anything about other things that cause death. It's just gonna happen? Right? when it's your time - it's your time Why bother doing anything about it? Think about how much less expensive cars would be without all the safety devices for example. We could probably get rid of thousands of laws and regulations involved in safety too. And if we'd stop spending money on vaccinations and treatments - think of the money we'd save! So what if more people die. Why do we bother to treat cancer patients? Leading Causes of death in America 2017 (from the CDC website): Heart disease: 647,457 Cancer: 599,108 Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936 Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201 Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383 Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404 Diabetes: 83,564 Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633 Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173 |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 15, 2020 14:05:06 GMT -5
As of 2019 there are 400,000 deaths due to smoking related causes. Cigarettes are still legal to sell. We might have a way to go on covid 19 deaths. Yeah, I know.. it's a wonder we bother to do anything about other things that cause death. It's just gonna happen? Right? when it's your time - it's your time Why bother doing anything about it? Think about how much less expensive cars would be without all the safety devices for example. We could probably get rid of thousands of laws and regulations involved in safety too. And if we'd stop spending money on vaccinations and treatments - think of the money we'd save! So what if more people die. Why do we bother to treat cancer patients? Leading Causes of death in America 2017 (from the CDC website): Heart disease: 647,457 Cancer: 599,108 Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936 Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201 Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383 Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404 Diabetes: 83,564 Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633 Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173 He doesn't care about any of that, we already went around on preventing things on another thread. If you look at you list, Covid will be the third leading cause of death in the US this year. A disease no on heard of 8 months ago. It will also cause more than 3x(at least) the number of pneumonia and influenza deaths. Yet, idiots continue to compare the 2, and do not even try to understand this. One reason this will continue unabated. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 15, 2020 14:15:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I know.. it's a wonder we bother to do anything about other things that cause death. It's just gonna happen? Right? when it's your time - it's your time Why bother doing anything about it? Think about how much less expensive cars would be without all the safety devices for example. We could probably get rid of thousands of laws and regulations involved in safety too. And if we'd stop spending money on vaccinations and treatments - think of the money we'd save! So what if more people die. Why do we bother to treat cancer patients? Leading Causes of death in America 2017 (from the CDC website): Heart disease: 647,457 Cancer: 599,108 Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936 Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201 Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383 Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404 Diabetes: 83,564 Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633 Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173 He doesn't care about any of that, we already went around on preventing things on another thread. If you look at you list, Covid will be the third leading cause of death in the US this year. A disease no on heard of 8 months ago. It will also cause more than 3x(at least) the number of pneumonia and influenza deaths. Yet, idiots continue to compare the 2, and do not even try to understand this. One reason this will continue unabated. Add to this that I do not believe that all COVID deaths have been accounted for. There was a time where no one got tested, so the deaths were attributed to pneumonia or another infectious disease. We are at 136K deaths from early March until mid July - and this was with a large segment of the country on lock down. Who knows what the debacle in Arizona, FL and TX will add to the total. These are all numbers games. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 15, 2020 14:18:08 GMT -5
He doesn't care about any of that, we already went around on preventing things on another thread. If you look at you list, Covid will be the third leading cause of death in the US this year. A disease no on heard of 8 months ago. It will also cause more than 3x(at least) the number of pneumonia and influenza deaths. Yet, idiots continue to compare the 2, and do not even try to understand this. One reason this will continue unabated. Add to this that I do not believe that all COVID deaths have been accounted for. There was a time where no one got tested, so the deaths were attributed to pneumonia or another infectious disease. We are at 136K deaths from early March until mid July - and this was with a large segment of the country on lock down. Who knows what the debacle in Arizona, FL and TX will add to the total. These are all numbers games. There is no doubt we are undercounting. The most accurate way to know is to compare deaths from respiratory infections in 2019 and 2020, and see the excess, then subtract out the COVID deaths. The excess are all likely COVID, because, other than influenza, there are few respiratory infections that cause pneumonia that have a significant seasonality. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 15, 2020 14:20:07 GMT -5
Add to this that I do not believe that all COVID deaths have been accounted for. There was a time where no one got tested, so the deaths were attributed to pneumonia or another infectious disease. We are at 136K deaths from early March until mid July - and this was with a large segment of the country on lock down. Who knows what the debacle in Arizona, FL and TX will add to the total. These are all numbers games. There is no doubt we are undercounting. The most accurate way to know is to compare deaths from respiratory infections in 2019 and 2020, and see the excess, then subtract out the COVID deaths. The excess are all likely COVID, because, other than influenza, there are few respiratory infections that cause pneumonia that have a significant seasonality. Shouldn't we have some of those estimates by now? We are in the middle of summer. ETA: OTOH, the number crunchers are probably up to their asses in alligators with COVID, so maybe not. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 15, 2020 14:37:18 GMT -5
There is no doubt we are undercounting. The most accurate way to know is to compare deaths from respiratory infections in 2019 and 2020, and see the excess, then subtract out the COVID deaths. The excess are all likely COVID, because, other than influenza, there are few respiratory infections that cause pneumonia that have a significant seasonality. Shouldn't we have some of those estimates by now? We are in the middle of summer. ETA: OTOH, the number crunchers are probably up to their asses in alligators with COVID, so maybe not. Where I live, when we looked at April, we had over twice as many deaths than we did in 2019. When you subtracted out the ones attributed to COVID, we missed 500. In the US, through the end of May, when you looked at overall mortality, and subtracted oth the COVID deaths, we were 30k short. We had 90K officially, and it was likely the real number was 120k. Sobering. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 16, 2020 6:51:52 GMT -5
Maybe we should outlaw cigarette smoking and remove all subsidies for tobacco farming. If we were serious about tackling the problem. But, your smoking is not a contagious problem, and as long as it is limited so as not to affect me, you are free to destroy your health in any manner yu choose. Once you risk my health, the calculation changes. My answer was in context to the post I was answering. RE; How many stories need to be heard. Not whatever you're projecting here. However...in this post you do mention "free to destroy your health" as long as it doesn't affect you. Doesn't sit well with your previous statement about shared health expense. With that being said, should I ask questions like you do ? Like... So you're ok with big much bigger healthcare expense for smoking, but it's not ok for Covid 19 ? Follow the news. United healthcare just announced their profits for the last quarter. They were 50% of last years earnings. This was due to decreased visits for everything but covid, and cancellations of elective surgery. So no, spending did not increase significantly Trump actually found a way to control healthcare costs! |
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jul 16, 2020 8:00:38 GMT -5
Maybe we should outlaw cigarette smoking and remove all subsidies for tobacco farming. If we were serious about tackling the problem. But, your smoking is not a contagious problem, and as long as it is limited so as not to affect me, you are free to destroy your health in any manner yu choose. Once you risk my health, the calculation changes. Not whatever you're projecting here. And again! And again and again and again!  |
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jul 16, 2020 8:31:03 GMT -5
Shouldn't we have some of those estimates by now? We are in the middle of summer. ETA: OTOH, the number crunchers are probably up to their asses in alligators with COVID, so maybe not. Where I live, when we looked at April, we had over twice as many deaths than we did in 2019. When you subtracted out the ones attributed to COVID, we missed 500. In the US, through the end of May, when you looked at overall mortality, and subtracted oth the COVID deaths, we were 30k short. We had 90K officially, and it was likely the real number was 120k. Sobering. FWIW - these are the numbers I've seen in a couple of reports too |
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Post by Opti on Jul 16, 2020 8:38:58 GMT -5
Maybe we should outlaw cigarette smoking and remove all subsidies for tobacco farming. If we were serious about tackling the problem. But, your smoking is not a contagious problem, and as long as it is limited so as not to affect me, you are free to destroy your health in any manner yu choose. Once you risk my health, the calculation changes. My answer was in context to the post I was answering. RE; How many stories need to be heard. Not whatever you're projecting here. However...in this post you do mention "free to destroy your health" as long as it doesn't affect you. Doesn't sit well with your previous statement about shared health expense. With that being said, should I ask questions like you do ? Like... So you're ok with big much bigger healthcare expense for smoking, but it's not ok for Covid 19 ? I don't want to play this rabbit hole even if you do. I understand your point that knowing something will kill people and people actually avoiding it, is not something we can count on in general for the population. Generally the public is scared of the unknown more than the known they feel they can protect themselves from. Smoking is a choice. Except for people holding Covid parties, getting Covid is not a choice much like the shooting massacres that seemed to be in vogue for a time. I would love for people to stop smoking, but its unlikely that will happen any time soon. People aren't dying within 3 weeks or so of being within 6 feet of a smoker. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 12:04:49 GMT -5
As of 2019 there are 400,000 deaths due to smoking related causes. Cigarettes are still legal to sell. We might have a way to go on covid 19 deaths. Yeah, I know.. it's a wonder we bother to do anything about other things that cause death. It's just gonna happen? Right? when it's your time - it's your time Why bother doing anything about it? (Snipped for brevity) You're kind of missing the point of my answer. It was in regards to how much death is needed for covid 19 to be taken as seriously as it should be. You might want to read the post it was answering. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 12:14:24 GMT -5
My answer was in context to the post I was answering. RE; How many stories need to be heard. Not whatever you're projecting here. However...in this post you do mention "free to destroy your health" as long as it doesn't affect you. Doesn't sit well with your previous statement about shared health expense. With that being said, should I ask questions like you do ? Like... So you're ok with big much bigger healthcare expense for smoking, but it's not ok for Covid 19 ? I don't want to play this rabbit hole even if you do. I understand your point that knowing something will kill people and people actually avoiding it, is not something we can count on in general for the population. Generally the public is scared of the unknown more than the known they feel they can protect themselves from. Smoking is a choice. Except for people holding Covid parties, getting Covid is not a choice much like the shooting massacres that seemed to be in vogue for a time. I would love for people to stop smoking, but its unlikely that will happen any time soon. People aren't dying within 3 weeks or so of being within 6 feet of a smoker. My post was in context to the post it was answering. Not that interested in the cost of healthcare variable, in regards to a socialized cost rabbit hole I buy an underwritten health insurance, who's cost takes into account my life long health/behavior. For a time they were called Cadillac plans I think. No co-pays, $500 total yearly deductible/out of pocket. The first long paragraph in your post did cover, rabbit holes, killing, fear, smoking, parties, shooting massacres, what's in vogue. The second short paragraph seems to compare some incomparable items. You do seem to be making a good argument for using my (Snipped for brevity) habit. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 12:16:36 GMT -5
Not whatever you're projecting here. And again! And again and again and again! Stop projecting that I'm using projecting while you're projecting again. Way too much projecting, with little regard to comprehension. Hmmm, 'comprehension'... Might have a new one. |
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jul 17, 2020 12:24:21 GMT -5
And again! And again and again and again! Stop projecting that I'm using projecting while you're projecting again. Way too much projecting, with little regard to comprehension. Hmmm, 'comprehension'... Might have a new one. You've accused others of comprehension issues, yet no one comprehends. No one but you. Sounds like a personal problem. 😉 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 12:34:32 GMT -5
Stop projecting that I'm using projecting while you're projecting again. Way too much projecting, with little regard to comprehension. Hmmm, 'comprehension'... Might have a new one. You've accused others of comprehension issues, yet no one comprehends. No one but you. Sounds like a personal problem. 😉 Nah, no problem over here. You might be projecting a bit with your "no one comprehends" I haven't seen the contract that states you speak for every one. Edit; uh oh, we got a wrist slap on another thread, have to stop now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2020 12:40:08 GMT -5
My answer was in context to the post I was answering. RE; How many stories need to be heard. Not whatever you're projecting here. However...in this post you do mention "free to destroy your health" as long as it doesn't affect you. Doesn't sit well with your previous statement about shared health expense. With that being said, should I ask questions like you do ? Like... So you're ok with big much bigger healthcare expense for smoking, but it's not ok for Covid 19 ? Follow the news. United healthcare just announced their profits for the last quarter. They were 50% of last years earnings. This was due to decreased visits for everything but covid, and cancellations of elective surgery. So no, spending did not increase significantly Trump actually found a way to control healthcare costs! The Trump insertion in your post seems a bit off, unless you were making an attempt at levity. |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 17, 2020 12:42:56 GMT -5
Battles over wearing face coverings intensified even as the US shattered another daily coronavirus record and health officials warned hospitalizations are getting out of control in some areas. There were 77,255 new cases reported Thursday, topping a previous high set two days ago, according to Johns Hopkins University. At least 943 people were reported dead that day.www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html....and they're still arguing about masks? It boggles the mind. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 17, 2020 13:32:19 GMT -5
Follow the news. United healthcare just announced their profits for the last quarter. They were 50% of last years earnings. This was due to decreased visits for everything but covid, and cancellations of elective surgery. So no, spending did not increase significantly Trump actually found a way to control healthcare costs! The Trump insertion in your post seems a bit off, unless you were making an attempt at levity. Trump promised better, cheaper healthcare. Appears he has finally delivered |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 11:34:14 GMT -5
The Trump insertion in your post seems a bit off, unless you were making an attempt at levity. Trump promised better, cheaper healthcare. Appears he has finally delivered What did he deliver ? |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 20, 2020 11:40:02 GMT -5
Trump promised better, cheaper healthcare. Appears he has finally delivered What did he deliver ? Clearly it is a joke. I don't think anyone has had a premium decrease. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 11:49:50 GMT -5
Clearly it is a joke. I don't think anyone has had a premium decrease. I guess. That's why I mentioned levity. I'm old fashioned with medical insurance. I feel you're buying coverage for risk, if anything risk has gone up with covid-19 |
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