WannabeWealthy
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Post by WannabeWealthy on Jul 8, 2020 13:26:31 GMT -5
So I got off the phone with my brother after a long conversation about saving money for retirement vs. spending freely and enjoying life NOW rather than later. His reasoning is "why live with depriving yourself of things you want to do now only to not know when you are going to die and end up leaving it to someone else in your family that will spend it enjoying life?" I have to say, he has a point. I've been struggling to try getting back financially before I got divorced and it seems like I am depriving myself of living fruitful. I don't know when I'm going to die. I know I'm not a healthy person (diabetes type-2 and high blood pressure). If I could retire today, I would fly out to Nevada and take pilot training to learn how to fly and get my pilot's license. I would take as long as it would take. I would then BUY me a plane to fly on the weekends. I would also love to travel the world and visit places I've never seen like Japan, etc.. (I know I can't do it now with the virus). So what do you guys think? Should we at least engage in some things that are expensive that we want to do NOW? What if we get too old to enjoy life to the fullest and we die early leaving our nest egg for others to enjoy life?
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jul 8, 2020 13:29:44 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with an occasional splurge, but, is your brother expecting YOU to take care of him in retirement? The way the Republicans are eyeing Social Security & Medicare, I wouldn't guarantee those programs will be remotely the same once you hit retirement age. What's he planning to live on? Cat food?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2020 13:31:24 GMT -5
Life is about balance.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 8, 2020 13:44:07 GMT -5
My grandfather worked for over 30 years for the same company and did well. Over his career he worked long hours and had long commutes when his job moved as he didn't want to move the family because my mom and her siblings were in school. My grandparents planned to do all the traveling they didn't during his working years in retirement. He ended up having health issues and they weren't even able to do 5% of the traveling they talked about. He passed away about 15 years after retiring after having a massive stroke while my grandmother lived another 11 years.
Like Thyme said it's all about balance. Had they done some traveling during his working years then they didn't risk missing out on travel in retirement due to health issues while they would have been fine financially. If they over did traveling or living it up during the working years then that comes at the expense of his career and my grandmother possibly has no liquid assets after he passes.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 8, 2020 13:57:07 GMT -5
It is ok to be poor when you are young. It sucks to be poor when you are old. Money gives you options. If you don't have it, someone else has a say. Being miserly and spending nothing, and spending frivolously are both problematic. Moderation, and planning are the key to living life. The problem that I see with people who spend like that is they never seem to have a plan, and then regret the spending when push comes to shove.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 8, 2020 13:58:50 GMT -5
Traveling when I was young and poor was fun. Drive for hours, pack snacks and a cooler, crash on friends' couches, take in the free museums/festivals/exhibits in various cities, eat from street vendors.
Now that would kill me.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 8, 2020 14:02:11 GMT -5
Traveling when I was young and poor was fun. Drive for hours, pack snacks and a cooler, crash on friends' couches, take in the free museums/festivals/exhibits in various cities, eat from street vendors. Now that would kill me. Yeah, not sleeping on a couch or the floor. If it doesn't have a bed, I ain't staying there. Road trips with no plans/places to stay were an adventure at one point. No longer
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 14:10:31 GMT -5
It is ok to be poor when you are young. It sucks to be poor when you are old. Money gives you options. If you don't have it, someone else has a say. Being miserly and spending nothing, and spending frivolously are both problematic. Moderation, and planning are the key to living life. The problem that I see with people who spend like that is they never seem to have a plan, and then regret the spending when push comes to shove. Oh, I agree. New trucks and SUVs with giant monthly payments. Manicures/pedicures, Closets full of Stuff. Disney World. Cruises. Coach purses. Dining out 2-3 times a week. There's room for a little of this in most budgets (I happily confess to going overboard on travel most of my adult life), but not for all of it and not if you can't find $500 in an emergency. I suppose I should conclude that it's none of my business and be happy because all this spending props up the economy and the stock market, but when people run out of money in old age or due to a drastic economic downturn and need support from needs-based social programs- well, yes, it IS my business because I'm a taxpayer. Traveling when I was young and poor was fun. Drive for hours, pack snacks and a cooler, crash on friends' couches, take in the free museums/festivals/exhibits in various cities, eat from street vendors. Now that would kill me. Ah, I remember my first trip to Paris when I was 24- stayed in a squalid hostel with a bathroom down the hall for the equivalent of $3/night. Three cockroaches crawled across the floor the day I moved in. I'm less tolerant of cockroaches now and I really need my own bathroom, thank you.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 8, 2020 14:15:52 GMT -5
It is ok to be poor when you are young. It sucks to be poor when you are old. Money gives you options. If you don't have it, someone else has a say. Being miserly and spending nothing, and spending frivolously are both problematic. Moderation, and planning are the key to living life. The problem that I see with people who spend like that is they never seem to have a plan, and then regret the spending when push comes to shove. Oh, I agree. New trucks and SUVs with giant monthly payments. Manicures/pedicures, Closets full of Stuff. Disney World. Cruises. Coach purses. Dining out 2-3 times a week. There's room for a little of this in most budgets (I happily confess to going overboard on travel most of my adult life), but not for all of it and not if you can't find $500 in an emergency. I suppose I should conclude that it's none of my business and be happy because all this spending props up the economy and the stock market, but when people run out of money in old age or due to a drastic economic downturn and need support from needs-based social programs- well, yes, it IS my business because I'm a taxpayer. Traveling when I was young and poor was fun. Drive for hours, pack snacks and a cooler, crash on friends' couches, take in the free museums/festivals/exhibits in various cities, eat from street vendors. Now that would kill me. Ah, I remember my first trip to Paris when I was 24- stayed in a squalid hostel with a bathroom down the hall for the equivalent of $3/night. Three cockroaches crawled across the floor the day I moved in. I'm less tolerant of cockroaches now and I really need my own bathroom, thank you. Just remember, some of us have all that and still save a boat load for retirement. Except the vehicles are paid off.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 8, 2020 14:17:42 GMT -5
Oh, I agree. New trucks and SUVs with giant monthly payments. Manicures/pedicures, Closets full of Stuff. Disney World. Cruises. Coach purses. Dining out 2-3 times a week. There's room for a little of this in most budgets (I happily confess to going overboard on travel most of my adult life), but not for all of it and not if you can't find $500 in an emergency. I suppose I should conclude that it's none of my business and be happy because all this spending props up the economy and the stock market, but when people run out of money in old age or due to a drastic economic downturn and need support from needs-based social programs- well, yes, it IS my business because I'm a taxpayer. Ah, I remember my first trip to Paris when I was 24- stayed in a squalid hostel with a bathroom down the hall for the equivalent of $3/night. Three cockroaches crawled across the floor the day I moved in. I'm less tolerant of cockroaches now and I really need my own bathroom, thank you. Just remember, some of us have all that and still save a boat load for retirement. Except the vehicles are paid off. If you got it, flaunt it. Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do with their money. But when it starts raining, it good to have an umbrella
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dippyegg
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Post by dippyegg on Jul 8, 2020 14:30:14 GMT -5
I think it is a balance. Financial stress is no fun either. I want to have some cushion for rainy days and down times in life. If anything, this past year certainly has shown us that things can change on an instance. What fun is life if we save and never spend and enjoy ourselves as well?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 8, 2020 14:38:26 GMT -5
It is ok to be poor when you are young. It sucks to be poor when you are old. Money gives you options. If you don't have it, someone else has a say. Being miserly and spending nothing, and spending frivolously are both problematic. Moderation, and planning are the key to living life. The problem that I see with people who spend like that is they never seem to have a plan, and then regret the spending when push comes to shove. Oh, I agree. New trucks and SUVs with giant monthly payments. Manicures/pedicures, Closets full of Stuff. Disney World. Cruises. Coach purses. Dining out 2-3 times a week. There's room for a little of this in most budgets (I happily confess to going overboard on travel most of my adult life), but not for all of it and not if you can't find $500 in an emergency. I suppose I should conclude that it's none of my business and be happy because all this spending props up the economy and the stock market, but when people run out of money in old age or due to a drastic economic downturn and need support from needs-based social programs- well, yes, it IS my business because I'm a taxpayer. Traveling when I was young and poor was fun. Drive for hours, pack snacks and a cooler, crash on friends' couches, take in the free museums/festivals/exhibits in various cities, eat from street vendors. Now that would kill me. Ah, I remember my first trip to Paris when I was 24- stayed in a squalid hostel with a bathroom down the hall for the equivalent of $3/night. Three cockroaches crawled across the floor the day I moved in. I'm less tolerant of cockroaches now and I really need my own bathroom, thank you. First, Coach purses are not expensive. And there are plenty of us that can afford to do everything you mentioned and still save for a good retirement. I’m on track to retire before my 50th birthday and I spend plenty. Whether I will pull the trigger will depend on who wins this November. I don’t judge people for what they spend. People that make very good salaries are going to spend more than someone with a much lower salary. Doesn’t mean they will live in poverty when they are older
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 8, 2020 14:44:23 GMT -5
Let me add my support for balance.
My Mom had a major stroke while walking in to the meeting to sell their business. Mom was confined to a wheel chair for the rest of her life. The folks had put off retirement in order to amass more wealth. The result was that the folks never enjoyed the retirement they had imagined. Instead, Dad spent 14 years as Mom’s 24/7 caregiver.
The lesson DW and I took from this was to do some things sooner, rather than later. So, we’ve enjoyed several trips to Europe, annual passes to great ski areas, and a house with great views of the Sierra Nevada mountains.
Maybe there are ways to do some of the things on your bucket list at a lower cost. For example, rather than buying your own airplane, you might join a flying club. This would give you access to a plane, maybe several planes, without shouldering the full cost of an airplane by yourself. A second alternative might be to go into a partnership in an airplane with another pilot. You might even be able to rent an airplane from the place where we take your flying lessons.
Your travel aspirations may be achievable at bargain rates. Travel off season, or during the shoulder season. This allows substantial savings on airfares (we’ve often saved about 40% vs. high season rates). If you can’t drive a manual transmission, learn. In Europe, being able to drive a manual can save you 50% on a car rental. If you are more into group tours and able to travel on short notice, you might be able to fill an open seat at a bargain rate.
With a strategic approach to your bucket list, most of it might be achievable at a reasonable cost.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Jul 8, 2020 14:48:46 GMT -5
I agree it's a balance, but the OP said she was struggling financially after her divorce. I say save until you're more comfortable.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 8, 2020 14:50:08 GMT -5
Oh, I agree. New trucks and SUVs with giant monthly payments. Manicures/pedicures, Closets full of Stuff. Disney World. Cruises. Coach purses. Dining out 2-3 times a week. There's room for a little of this in most budgets (I happily confess to going overboard on travel most of my adult life), but not for all of it and not if you can't find $500 in an emergency. I suppose I should conclude that it's none of my business and be happy because all this spending props up the economy and the stock market, but when people run out of money in old age or due to a drastic economic downturn and need support from needs-based social programs- well, yes, it IS my business because I'm a taxpayer. Ah, I remember my first trip to Paris when I was 24- stayed in a squalid hostel with a bathroom down the hall for the equivalent of $3/night. Three cockroaches crawled across the floor the day I moved in. I'm less tolerant of cockroaches now and I really need my own bathroom, thank you. First, Coach purses are not expensive. And there are plenty of us that can afford to do everything you mentioned and still save for a good retirement. I’m on track to retire before my 50th birthday and I spend plenty. Whether I will pull the trigger will depend on who wins this November. I don’t judge people for what they spend. People that make very good salaries are going to spend more than someone with a much lower salary. Doesn’t mean they will live in poverty when they are older I have several of these, most I bought for less than $100. I discovered a long time ago that it is really hard to kill a Coach purse and I was really rough on purses....so it was cheaper for me to buy one Coach purse than it was to buy 3 $40 purses where the strap would break, the zipper would break or they would rip. As purses go, Coach is reasonable for the cost and there are a whole lot of purses out there that cost a hell of a lot more. On our last trip to Paris, I was looking for a purse in Paris as a souvenir as I had bought nothing the whole trip. I window shopped for the first 5 days and finally found one that piqued my interest. I went into the store to find that the purse was E1200. I pretty much said "thanks, but no thanks" and walked out. That was the end of my purse shopping for the trip. I think I wound up buying chocolate at the duty free shop instead.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 8, 2020 14:53:06 GMT -5
Also balance. But let's face it, most people suck at it.
I've decided I'm more like "make your choices, but don't ask for my help if you didn't do your part."
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Jul 8, 2020 14:55:44 GMT -5
Just remember, some of us have all that and still save a boat load for retirement. Except the vehicles are paid off. If you got it, flaunt it. Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do with their money. But when it starts raining, it good to have an umbrella I'm certain that the attorney has a well functioning umbrella.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 14:59:14 GMT -5
I'll pile on the "balance" responses.
I tilt way more towards saving for all scenarios so I develop a budget for Entertainment and Vacations and I make myself spend it each year.
I started doing this at 33 after spending 20-33 paying off my student loans, car loan, home loan, maxing retirement accounts. I had an entertainment bucket before that but supercharged it after home payoff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 15:06:12 GMT -5
That does it! I've decided. Tomorrow I'm going to throw caution to the winds and drive all the way to the main post office instead of going to the little branch just two miles down the road. I'm going to take the scenic route even though it'll add an extra mile to the six-mile trip.
On the way home, I'm gonna stop at Publix and buy cookies. Tired of making cookies.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 8, 2020 15:09:27 GMT -5
If you got it, flaunt it. Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do with their money. But when it starts raining, it good to have an umbrella I'm certain that the attorney has a well functioning umbrella. I suspect she has it together, but the stories I could tell of high earning physicians living paycheck to paycheck. Multiple marriages, young kids at 65, multiple homes expensive cars, expensive vacations. Being a professional is no guarantee of being financially responsible. We have the same faults as everyone else. I suspect wamp could tell similar stories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 15:12:28 GMT -5
I'm certain that the attorney has a well functioning umbrella. I suspect she has it together, but the stories I could tell of high earning physicians living paycheck to paycheck. Multiple marriages, young kids at 65, multiple homes expensive cars, expensive vacations. Being a professional is no guarantee of being financially responsible. We have the same faults as everyone else. I suspect wamp could tell similar stories. Physicians are notoriously bad with money.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 8, 2020 15:15:18 GMT -5
I suspect she has it together, but the stories I could tell of high earning physicians living paycheck to paycheck. Multiple marriages, young kids at 65, multiple homes expensive cars, expensive vacations. Being a professional is no guarantee of being financially responsible. We have the same faults as everyone else. I suspect wamp could tell similar stories. Physicians are notoriously bad with money. I not sure we are any worse than average, we just have far more ways to lose it and spend irresponsibly
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 8, 2020 15:23:31 GMT -5
I suspect she has it together, but the stories I could tell of high earning physicians living paycheck to paycheck. Multiple marriages, young kids at 65, multiple homes expensive cars, expensive vacations. Being a professional is no guarantee of being financially responsible. We have the same faults as everyone else. I suspect wamp could tell similar stories. Physicians are notoriously bad with money. My ex BIL makes a physician's salary and after working for nearly 30 years has less than $100K in his 401k, a new mortgage on a $600K house and nearly $60K in credit card debt. He also signed for parent loans for my niece to the tune of nearly $100k. He just turned 58. I keep telling my sister that she has the ability to recover if she is careful. Her ex is a train wreck, and showing no signs of improving.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 15:27:15 GMT -5
The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley, still one heck of an eye opener and its 24 years old. medium.com/simple-not-easy/big-hat-no-cattle-money-lessons-from-the-millionaire-next-door-83736a1a083e"In spite of its shortcomings, I consider The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas J. Stanley the book that had the greatest influence on my approach to money. As a lawyer, Dr. Stanley shattered my preconceived notions that lawyers were wealthy. In fact, Dr. Stanley took pains to explain that lawyers and physicians are notorious for being poor accumulators of wealth (or what he calls “PAWS”)."
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WannabeWealthy
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Post by WannabeWealthy on Jul 8, 2020 15:29:22 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with an occasional splurge, but, is your brother expecting YOU to take care of him in retirement? The way the Republicans are eyeing Social Security & Medicare, I wouldn't guarantee those programs will be remotely the same once you hit retirement age. What's he planning to live on? Cat food? LOL! Well, I certainly don't want to take care of him. If we don't get SS, then I'm screwed anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 15:31:52 GMT -5
Physicians are notoriously bad with money. My ex BIL makes a physician's salary and after working for nearly 30 years has less than $100K in his 401k, a new mortgage on a $600K house and nearly $60K in credit card debt. He also signed for parent loans for my niece to the tune of nearly $100k. He just turned 58. I keep telling my sister that she has the ability to recover if she is careful. Her ex is a train wreck, and showing no signs of improving. One of my son's classmates is in a dual physician parent household. I spent a lot of time during fundraising activities talking to his mom and omg. I just don't get how people making that much can be so broke. It's not something I can comprehend making less than 1/10th what they do. I get that there are a crap ton of student loans, but maybe not building the 700K house overlooking the river is a good idea then? (In an area where 250K will get you a very nice place).
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 8, 2020 15:46:38 GMT -5
I want to know more about life expectancy in your family and your brother's savings habits and health issues before commenting. Context matters. Your brother could be a spendthrift idiot justifying his own grasshopper ways or he could be communicating some pretty damn sound ways of dealing with chronic conditions that tend to lead to reduced life expectancy preceded by infirmity and disability at an unusually young age.
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WannabeWealthy
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Post by WannabeWealthy on Jul 8, 2020 15:55:24 GMT -5
I agree it's a balance, but the OP said she was struggling financially after her divorce. I say save until you're more comfortable. I'm a he. Not struggling. I'm struggling to make the money back that I lost. I lost a good bit of money and feel behind now. It took me awhile to amass that money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 16:01:00 GMT -5
After reading some of the posts, I'm rethinking my cruise to the main post office tomorrow and spending money on cookies instead of making them myself. Darmmit. I was looking forward to frivolity.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 8, 2020 16:01:13 GMT -5
My ex BIL makes a physician's salary and after working for nearly 30 years has less than $100K in his 401k, a new mortgage on a $600K house and nearly $60K in credit card debt. He also signed for parent loans for my niece to the tune of nearly $100k. He just turned 58. I keep telling my sister that she has the ability to recover if she is careful. Her ex is a train wreck, and showing no signs of improving. One of my son's classmates is in a dual physician parent household. I spent a lot of time during fundraising activities talking to his mom and omg. I just don't get how people making that much can be so broke. It's not something I can comprehend making less than 1/10th what they do. I get that there are a crap ton of student loans, but maybe not building the 700K house overlooking the river is a good idea then? (In an area where 250K will get you a very nice place). I don't get it either. Both he and my sister have been like this when the 2 of them were making a combined $250K. In their case at the time, there were no student loans nor were there private school loans for their kids.
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