pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 12:20:56 GMT -5
Nah, just require that their children or grandchildren have to go to a public school without precautions. Wonder how many would be willing to do that? Trump wouldn’t give a shit. I do think some of the republican senators and representatives do. If the don't they have gone so far down the rabbit hole that there is no hope
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 14, 2020 12:55:33 GMT -5
trump said this yesterday in his Whine-a-Thon press conference: "Schools should be opened. Kids want to go to school. We're losing a lot of lives by keeping things closed." How exactly are we losing lives by keeping schools and businesses closed to stop the threat of the virus infecting even more people in the U.S.? Umm, I'm pretty sure kids don't die from not getting what they want. That logic is way off! One must consider the source of the comment (and consistent lack of logic).
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 14, 2020 16:06:55 GMT -5
We're seeing a 3% infection rate in kids 0-9. It would be better if the age range was more specific. IMHE is predicting on Oct 1, we'll have as many cases as we do now, with a chance to double by Nov 1. I'm guessing there's about 15K elementary students spread out over 30 schools..which means about 15 infected kids per school. Could get to 30. So is 15-30 sick kids per school low enough that we just say "oh well...better luck next time."
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 16:33:06 GMT -5
If kids get everything, why would they suddenly not get this one? I will say that kids seem to process illness quicker. I remember a friend saying "Welcome to Parenthood - your kids bring home a cold and sniffle for 2 days. You catch it from them and are miserable for at least 2 weeks." Certainly, co-morbidity seems to play a big part in this being harmful. I would think kids have less risk factors - less obesity, less diabetes, less heart disease, etc. Because colds are also corona viruses, and their bodies are primed better than adult bodies because they are so frequently sick. Perhaps possible antibodies are cross reacting. After all, cross reacting antibodies was how the vaccine to smallpox was developed. Jenner noted that milk maids rarely got smallpox, but frequently had cow pox lesions on their hands, so he tried vaccinating with cow pox. So cross reacting antibodies have shown that they can be effective in preventing disease. Kids are not clean creatures. They stick their fingers in their mouths and are not near as picky as adults as to cleanliness. That act in itself means that their immune system gets exposed on a regular basis. Your immune system is more than just your blood, your mucosal tissues all have the both specific and non specific immunity. A good chunk of children, nearly 20% are obese.....so I doubt if this is a good chunk of it, or you’d see a bigger segment of kids getting sick in the population. These are speculations, but are based on science. AFAIK, knowing nothing that is all we have. This isn't my thing, and I am sure I am wrong, but I am not following the logic that since kids become sick with everything that comes their way they would magically not be infected by this one. Being subject to catching ALL Coronavirus strains and they all make you sick, except this one - I'm just not following the logic. As I said before, if kids caught it, but it was mild and they bounced back real quick, that makes sense.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 14, 2020 17:00:55 GMT -5
This isn't my thing, and I am sure I am wrong, but I am not following the logic that since kids become sick with everything that comes their way they would magically not be infected by this one. Being subject to catching ALL Coronavirus strains and they all make you sick, except this one - I'm just not following the logic.
It is not that they don't get infected, but their immune systems have more recently seen a corona virus. That is what I mean that their immune system is primed. Your immune system has an memory response, that when you get sick with a similar bug it has the ability to respond - even partially. Sometimes that partial response is sufficient. Because their fingers are in their mouths more frequently, because they can be pretty gross creatures, they effectively reimmunize themselves with foreign microbes. Your mouth and gut are a substantial part of your immune system as well, so doing things like chewing on their fingernails, or eating what they've picked out of their noses, or not washing their hands after using the bathroom ultimately exposes them to things that forces their immune system to function.
There is an increasing segment of immunology right now that is looking at whether we have de-germed ourselves out of having a substantial immune system, and this does seem to have a certain amount of credibility. Have we cleaned up with using antibacterial disinfectants so much that we can't respond?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 17:04:45 GMT -5
Or, the disease is not a direct infection, but the result of an over exuberant immune response. The dexamethasone results would suggest that. So, if you have been more frequently exposed to similar viruses, you mount too good of a response, and get the multi system derangement we see.
If it weren’t so serious, it would be fun to see the layers of the onion peeled back on this one. I think we will learn quite a bit about virology and immunology
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oped
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Post by oped on Jul 14, 2020 17:27:52 GMT -5
We're seeing a 3% infection rate in kids 0-9. It would be better if the age range was more specific. IMHE is predicting on Oct 1, we'll have as many cases as we do now, with a chance to double by Nov 1. I'm guessing there's about 15K elementary students spread out over 30 schools..which means about 15 infected kids per school. Could get to 30. So is 15-30 sick kids per school low enough that we just say "oh well...better luck next time."
Realistically this isn't likely though is it? The spread is unlikely to be evenly distributed. Many won't see it at all... and a few will have it everywhere... seems more likely. Just the luck of the draw...
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 14, 2020 17:29:17 GMT -5
Or, the disease is not a direct infection, but the result of an over exuberant immune response. The dexamethasone results would suggest that. So, if you have been more frequently exposed to similar viruses, you mount too good of a response, and get the multi system derangement we see. If it weren’t so serious, it would be fun to see the layers of the onion peeled back on this one. I think we will learn quite a bit about virology and immunology There are a lot of good research projects here, if we had the time and $$ to chase them. Unfortunately, we need to deal with the virus in the population first.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 17:34:42 GMT -5
Or, the disease is not a direct infection, but the result of an over exuberant immune response. The dexamethasone results would suggest that. So, if you have been more frequently exposed to similar viruses, you mount too good of a response, and get the multi system derangement we see. If it weren’t so serious, it would be fun to see the layers of the onion peeled back on this one. I think we will learn quite a bit about virology and immunology There are a lot of good research projects here, if we had the time and $$ to chase them. Unfortunately, we need to deal with the virus in the population first. Reality gets in the way unfortunately. It is a shame people can’t get excited by these questions, because this is really science
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 15, 2020 12:29:11 GMT -5
We're seeing a 3% infection rate in kids 0-9. It would be better if the age range was more specific. IMHE is predicting on Oct 1, we'll have as many cases as we do now, with a chance to double by Nov 1. I'm guessing there's about 15K elementary students spread out over 30 schools..which means about 15 infected kids per school. Could get to 30. So is 15-30 sick kids per school low enough that we just say "oh well...better luck next time."
Realistically this isn't likely though is it? The spread is unlikely to be evenly distributed. Many won't see it at all... and a few will have it everywhere... seems more likely. Just the luck of the draw... I think that we might find different data if we looked hard enough. I am curious as to the percentage of children who actually get tested. As they seem to be able to better tolerate the virus, I would posit that if I child shows up at the doctor with cold symptoms, they are not tested for covid.....the ole if you hear footbeats, assume horses and not zebras. So it is entirely possible that the virus is more insidious in that population than we think. Also, children have not been as exposed. During the lockdown, taking children to the store really wasn’t welcomed unless it was absolutely necessary. So until the playgrounds opened back up, their exposures were likely less than most adults who were going through some of the normal living activities. The camps in MO that recently opened up bore this out. They can get infected, and spread the disease. I think that school administrators need to take a hard look at this information in deciding how to open up schools, because they do have a decent beta test here.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 15, 2020 12:45:13 GMT -5
Interesting thought I had. Saw on a news a teacher going on about Joe they catch everything so they'll get covid. But (I believe it's still part of the theory) a reason why kids aren't as affected is because of all the other Corona viruses they've been exposed to, so if the teachers were also exposed to it they probably with fare better too.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 15, 2020 13:59:09 GMT -5
Interesting thought I had. Saw on a news a teacher going on about Joe they catch everything so they'll get covid. But (I believe it's still part of the theory) a reason why kids aren't as affected is because of all the other Corona viruses they've been exposed to, so if the teachers were also exposed to it they probably with fare better too.I was positing this on another thread. Can't remember which one but it was my wild ass guess as to why kids do not seem to get as severe a disease. Your second point, I disagree with here. Kids continually have their hands in their mouth or on their face. That means that they are continually inoculating themselves against bugs. Most adults do not do this. They already know that teachers are going to be as susceptible as any adult.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 15, 2020 14:08:15 GMT -5
Interesting thought I had. Saw on a news a teacher going on about Joe they catch everything so they'll get covid. But (I believe it's still part of the theory) a reason why kids aren't as affected is because of all the other Corona viruses they've been exposed to, so if the teachers were also exposed to it they probably with fare better too.I was positing this on another thread. Can't remember which one but it was my wild ass guess as to why kids do not seem to get as severe a disease. Your second point, I disagree with here. Kids continually have their hands in their mouth or on their face. That means that they are continually inoculating themselves against bugs. Most adults do not do this. They already know that teachers are going to be as susceptible as any adult. I agree about the teachers. Healthcare workers are exposed to sick people all the time, but quite a few got this and were severely ill, and many died. Do not believe teachers will fare any better.
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anciana
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Post by anciana on Jul 17, 2020 14:48:06 GMT -5
This is not good and not sure why these kids were tested initially. Was it as the article suggests as a precaution before going to a camp or was it afterwards when someone at a camp became sick so everyone was tested? Was it because members of their family became sick? Either way, these numbers seem awfully high. Hoping the people deciding on school openings will look at this data.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 17, 2020 14:52:49 GMT -5
This is not good and not sure why these kids were tested initially. Was it as the article suggests as a precaution before going to a camp or was it afterwards when someone at a camp became sick so everyone was tested? Was it because members of their family became sick? Either way, these numbers seem awfully high. Hoping the people deciding on school openings will look at this data. The kids weren’t sick, so it is not a problem
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 17, 2020 15:49:25 GMT -5
One of my kid's school just announced no in person classes until mid-October. Either they are sure Trump can't cut off funding or the funding isn't enough to risk getting kids and staff sick.
This house of cards is going to crumble.
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Post by pooks on Jul 17, 2020 19:51:24 GMT -5
DD's college just announced a change to their reopening plan. Covid tests are in short supply, so they are removing the test requirement to start school. This change gives us an out, without penalty, if we want to cancel housing. Have to make the decision soon. Half of the classes she enrolled in have changed from in person to online only and everything will be online after Thanksgiving break.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 17, 2020 20:43:17 GMT -5
One of my kid's school just announced no in person classes until mid-October. Either they are sure Trump can't cut off funding or the funding isn't enough to risk getting kids and staff sick. This house of cards is going to crumble. There isn't actually that much federal funding for public education. The state in which I live, the federal funds are average about 10% of the operating budget (discount bonds for capital improvements). So--while I'm not advocating one way or another--a school district could decide to risk federal funding be pulled knowing it would "only" cost them 10% of their operational budget.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 18, 2020 1:22:46 GMT -5
One of my kid's school just announced no in person classes until mid-October. Either they are sure Trump can't cut off funding or the funding isn't enough to risk getting kids and staff sick. This house of cards is going to crumble. There isn't actually that much federal funding for public education. The state in which I live, the federal funds are average about 10% of the operating budget (discount bonds for capital improvements). So--while I'm not advocating one way or another--a school district could decide to risk federal funding be pulled knowing it would "only" cost them 10% of their operational budget. I thought it was 10% max. So, even though my state is poorly funded, losing 10% for one single year wouldn't be tragic.
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Post by saveinla on Jul 19, 2020 12:39:14 GMT -5
There is new study from South Korea about school reopening and the covid spread. www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.htmlIn the heated debate over reopening schools, one burning question has been whether and how efficiently children can spread the virus to others. A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do. The findings suggest that as schools reopen, communities will see clusters of infection take root that include children of all ages, several experts cautioned.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 20, 2020 10:24:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 10:36:22 GMT -5
Until they figure this virus out more, opening schools in any form is a phenomenally bad idea. Even babies get this, despite people being told otherwise. And, since there is a lack of testing, I'm sure there's more children and young adults as well who are positive. In my state, unless you are sick or were exposed you can't even get a test so they clearly aren't testing "healthy" people. 85 Babies Test Positive for COVID-19 in One Texas County, Health Official Says time.com/5868678/corpus-christi-babies-coronavirus/
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 20, 2020 10:52:15 GMT -5
There isn't actually that much federal funding for public education. The state in which I live, the federal funds are average about 10% of the operating budget (discount bonds for capital improvements). So--while I'm not advocating one way or another--a school district could decide to risk federal funding be pulled knowing it would "only" cost them 10% of their operational budget. I thought it was 10% max. So, even though my state is poorly funded, losing 10% for one single year wouldn't be tragic. I think losing 10% of a "guarenteed" funding might be more of a concern for districts with little other 'income' streams (local taxes). That 10% might be used for "necessities" like keeping the lights on versus "auxillery" or "nicer stuff" or "conveniences" for the school district. I know for my urban school districts a 10% cut in budget will cause some belt tightening and a gnashing of teeth and some "pet project expenses" will need to be cut... but the bulk of my school districts ability to provide an education will remain intact.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 20, 2020 10:57:28 GMT -5
Until they figure this virus out more, opening schools in any form is a phenomenally bad idea.
Even babies get this, despite people being told otherwise. And, since there is a lack of testing, I'm sure there's more children and young adults as well who are positive. In my state, unless you are sick or were exposed you can't even get a test so they clearly aren't testing "healthy" people. 85 Babies Test Positive for COVID-19 in One Texas County, Health Official Says time.com/5868678/corpus-christi-babies-coronavirus/ yeah, I haven't heard of many children dying or being adversely effected by having a bout of Covid 19... but not many kids have gotten it. Kids die from the flu - and I don't mean kids that already were compromised - I mean healthy kids who no one would suspect would die from something as common place as the flu. I think the numbers are between 40 and 200 children die every year from the flu. That's not a whole lot when you think about the total number of kids in America. But do you really want to be the family that loses a child to the flu? What if the number of children who die from Covid19 are higher ? Even if it's a little more than 200 kids? Who wants to be that family?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 20, 2020 11:02:15 GMT -5
Until they figure this virus out more, opening schools in any form is a phenomenally bad idea.
Even babies get this, despite people being told otherwise. And, since there is a lack of testing, I'm sure there's more children and young adults as well who are positive. In my state, unless you are sick or were exposed you can't even get a test so they clearly aren't testing "healthy" people. 85 Babies Test Positive for COVID-19 in One Texas County, Health Official Says time.com/5868678/corpus-christi-babies-coronavirus/ yeah, I haven't heard of many children dying or being adversely effected by having a bout of Covid 19... but not many kids have gotten it. Kids die from the flu - and I don't mean kids that already were compromised - I mean healthy kids who no one would suspect would die from something as common place as the flu. I think the numbers are between 40 and 200 children die every year from the flu. That's not a whole lot when you think about the total number of kids in America. But do you really want to be the family that loses a child to the flu? What if the number of children who die from Covid19 are higher ? Even if it's a little more than 200 kids? Who wants to be that family? I heard an interview with a woman whose son was a normal healthy teenager. He didn't feel great but went to basketball try-outs, came home, went to sleep, 24 hours later he was admitted to the hospital, 24 hours after that his organs starting shutting down and he died. And I think of her every year when I and my children get our flu shots. Terrifying and heartbreaking.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 10:02:23 GMT -5
There are many children who have died or become disabled due to COVID. It was leaked that an internal memo to DeVos predicted 11K deaths of children in the US if schools opened. One woman lost both of her college-age kids to it. From the CDC: "In the United States, 2% of confirmed cases of COVID-19 were among persons aged <18 years.4 In China, 2.2% of confirmed cases of COVID-19 were among persons aged <19 years old.1 In Italy, 1.2% of COVID-19 cases were among children aged <18 years.2 In Spain, 0.8% of confirmed cases of COVID-19 were among persons aged < 18 years.5" www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/pediatric-hcp.htmlA Florida mother lost a son to Covid-19. Days later, her daughter also died of it www.cnn.com/2020/07/20/us/florida-mother-2-children-covid-19-deaths/index.html
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