oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on Jul 9, 2020 8:36:28 GMT -5
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jul 9, 2020 9:27:51 GMT -5
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on Jul 9, 2020 9:36:38 GMT -5
Here’s an interview with the aap guideline author... in it he says “There are a couple of things we know now that we didn’t know when we closed schools down in March. One is that masks really do seem to work. They are very effective. Two, physical distancing works as well. If they are taking as many precautions as they can, I think the risk is pretty low.” Ie. Yes, school with social distancing and masks and as many precautions as possible.. is recommended... so... is that what trump is advocating? Is that what is actually happening? And how? www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/us/coronavirus-schools-reopening-guidelines-aap.html
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,362
|
Post by Tiny on Jul 9, 2020 9:49:22 GMT -5
I find it distressing that Trump is basically asking parents to "sell their children". He seems to have threatened to withhold Federal money if the kids do not go back to school. I get it that money "buys" everything. This just makes me wonder how many other "children" he's "bought" in the past?
Who uses children to coerce adults to do things? This isn't the first time he's done it, either.
How did this man become President of the USA? Who would hold this man up to their child as a role model?
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on Jul 9, 2020 10:17:45 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 20, 2024 5:12:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 10:18:25 GMT -5
Trump's new "Hitler youth" where they and their instructors will be sacrificed on the alter of the economy.
We could pay people to stay home and control the virus. Naw, better to ignore it, force people to work, and sacrifice a large portion of our population for a narcissist.
Great plan, America.
I would NEVER send children to school in the fall. That's a clear recipe for disaster.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,755
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 9, 2020 10:41:32 GMT -5
This is a selfish, nit-picky bit on my part, but most of you keep saying teachers. Please note that I specifically said educators. Who do you think is actually making decisions right now? Who do you think gets yelled at for all of this school stuff? Who do you think feels incredibly debilitated and confused and knows thousands of people's financial livelihoods, daily routines, mental health, and nutrition sources are riding on their decisions. That, friends, is not the teachers. Please keep school superintendents, district level directors, and principals in mind. I know they're not the faces you see, but they are the ones who have to make the actual decisions and plans.
And then the president goes and says shit like that. Because he can and he doesn't care what educators--admin, clerical staff, support staff, and teachers are going through right now.
I can't vent about this on FB or with "real" people. Thank you for letting me get it out.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,755
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 9, 2020 10:42:54 GMT -5
I find it distressing that Trump is basically asking parents to "sell their children". He seems to have threatened to withhold Federal money if the kids do not go back to school. I get it that money "buys" everything. This just makes me wonder how many other "children" he's "bought" in the past? Who uses children to coerce adults to do things? This isn't the first time he's done it, either. How did this man become President of the USA? Who would hold this man up to their child as a role model? To be fair, the Oregon governor--who is a democrat-- pulled the same crap last week. "Wear masks or I won't let schools reopen in the fall." It's incredibly frustrating.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,755
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 9, 2020 10:43:43 GMT -5
Trump's new "Hitler youth" where they and their instructors will be sacrificed on the alter of the economy. We could pay people to stay home and control the virus. Naw, better to ignore it, force people to work, and sacrifice a large portion of our population for a narcissist. Great plan, America. I would NEVER send children to school in the fall. That's a clear recipe for disaster. And there are children who will not get food if they don't go to school. Especially where you and I live in rural Oregon.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jul 9, 2020 10:48:43 GMT -5
I forgot about the food issue too!
My volunteer group works with a lot of schools that are low income. We frequently work with a Boys & Girls club which has been open through most of this - and a member regularly going there hasn't come down with the virus yet. These kids need to get back to school for various reasons.
I do realize it's not teachers making the decisions, it's just that I only have teachers in my FB feed and only know them so that's who I see insisting it's all a horrible no good idea. trump pushing it also makes it instantly become a political thing - with a huge portion of people thinking anything he touches is bad...
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
|
Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 9, 2020 11:17:39 GMT -5
While I have sympathy for teachers and the educators who have to make the decisions, we cannot be 100% safe. It is just not realistic. Just as "essential" workers had to go to work and find ways of making it safer, keeping schools completely virtual does not work for the majority of students and parents. So, we need to find a way to do say, while minimizing the risk. Trump doesn't care about the last part. But I have little sympathy for teachers who won't go back to work unless they are assured there is no risk. This is scary for everyone, and there have been people working to keep society functioning throughout this who do not get paid what they do. They need to step up too.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on Jul 9, 2020 11:17:47 GMT -5
I find it distressing that Trump is basically asking parents to "sell their children". He seems to have threatened to withhold Federal money if the kids do not go back to school. I get it that money "buys" everything. This just makes me wonder how many other "children" he's "bought" in the past? Who uses children to coerce adults to do things? This isn't the first time he's done it, either. How did this man become President of the USA? Who would hold this man up to their child as a role model? To be fair, the Oregon governor--who is a democrat-- pulled the same crap last week. "Wear masks or I won't let schools reopen in the fall." It's incredibly frustrating. I see that more as, if we all wear masks and control the illness... then schools can open. If we don't and this thing reaches critical mass here... like it is in many states... it's unlikely. My cousin just texted and asked if I'd homeschool their kids till this is over.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on Jul 9, 2020 11:21:56 GMT -5
There is a long way between no risk and just open them up and go back.
I'm a fan of the half the class goes Monday and Wednesday and half goes Tuesday and Thursday with cyber the other days and extra cleaning fridays... cohort learning, so there can be more interactions in smaller groups, distancing made easier by fewer people in the building. Set schedules to make parent scheduling easier. Outside classes if possible. Maybe longer winter break and less time off next summer.
This also means that adults need to do LESS interacting if possible so that things stay safe for their kids to be in school.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,755
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jul 9, 2020 11:26:33 GMT -5
While I have sympathy for teachers and the educators who have to make the decisions, we cannot be 100% safe. It is just not realistic. Just as "essential" workers had to go to work and find ways of making it safer, keeping schools completely virtual does not work for the majority of students and parents. So, we need to find a way to do say, while minimizing the risk. Trump doesn't care about the last part. But I have little sympathy for teachers who won't go back to work unless they are assured there is no risk. This is scary for everyone, and there have been people working to keep society functioning throughout this who do not get paid what they do. They need to step up too. I don't want to assume you're responding specifically to me, but in case you are: I agree with what you've said. Within this thread, I'm not actually advocating one way or another for full school re-opening, hybrid, or distance learning-only. I'm just pointing out that there are real people who have to make these decisions and implement the plans that come with them. There is an incessant amount of information and opinions and upset people--from every perspective. The POTUS making generalized, political, gas-lighting statements just simply does not help. Decision-making-level educators are overwhelmed right now.
|
|
azucena
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 13:23:14 GMT -5
Posts: 5,189
|
Post by azucena on Jul 9, 2020 11:45:21 GMT -5
Chloe - appreciate your perspective.
FWIW - parents are overwhelmed right now too.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
|
Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 9, 2020 12:01:23 GMT -5
While I have sympathy for teachers and the educators who have to make the decisions, we cannot be 100% safe. It is just not realistic. Just as "essential" workers had to go to work and find ways of making it safer, keeping schools completely virtual does not work for the majority of students and parents. So, we need to find a way to do say, while minimizing the risk. Trump doesn't care about the last part. But I have little sympathy for teachers who won't go back to work unless they are assured there is no risk. This is scary for everyone, and there have been people working to keep society functioning throughout this who do not get paid what they do. They need to step up too. I don't want to assume you're responding specifically to me, but in case you are: I agree with what you've said. Within this thread, I'm not actually advocating one way or another for full school re-opening, hybrid, or distance learning-only. I'm just pointing out that there are real people who have to make these decisions and implement the plans that come with them. There is an incessant amount of information and opinions and upset people--from every perspective. The POTUS making generalized, political, gas-lighting statements just simply does not help. Decision-making-level educators are overwhelmed right now. I was agreeing with you. Sorry this didn’t come across. Just saying no without really weighing the options is not the way to go about this. Unless we don’t do anything and this surge turns into a total disaster. Jury is still out on that one. But I agree with the AAP, every effort to open schools in a safe manner should be explored
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,362
|
Post by Tiny on Jul 9, 2020 12:32:42 GMT -5
To be honest, I think it's the densely populated Urban area schools that will have the most trouble opening (and since dense urban areas tend to be Democratic - it's kind of obvious who Trump is spewing at.) I think the picture in the article) is cute with those 6 kids and one teacher. My local K thru 6 school has 250 students (updated: checked 2018 enrollment) . As do most of the other public grade schools within 3 miles of my house (I think there are like 7 or 8 public schools and then a handful of "private religious schools". There are 3 Jr. high schools. The HS in my suburb (shares students with the HS in the next over suburb) has over 1000 students - the other suburb has over 2 thousand students (plus another 1000 plus in their "freshman center). I'm not sure how one goes about creating classrooms with 10 or 15 students per room - when you've got 200 (or more students)... I'm pretty sure Trump is slapping the Democratic Big Cities with his "I'm not gonna give you money for your schools" thing... It's also a great way to sway voters in less urban/rural areas with smaller populations who rely on Federal money to keep their schools open. Even though they may have an easier time managing in house schooling and the coronavirus. I don't think there is a one size fits all solution. I don't see why local schools with smaller populations couldn't figure out some way to teach the kids - some in the school (or in makeshift classrooms to increase the space/number of kids per teacher) I'm not sure how an urban school in a school building built in the 40s and 50s with limited room sizes intended to hold 40 or more students (and currently USED that way - with classroom sizes of 30 or more kids) and possibly 200 plus students per building... is going to social distance the kids.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,362
|
Post by Tiny on Jul 9, 2020 12:52:32 GMT -5
I'm guesses employer's in cities (where the workers are in hi rise buildings) will have the same issues as schools. I work in a cube farm - and I would be about 4 feet from 3 other people... we are separated by a cube wall... as would all the other people in the farm in "quad" kind of cubes. And then there's the poor unfortunate souls who work on the spanking new 'open floor' plan floor. They sit in rows facing another worker - separated by a 12 inch high "wall". You can see and hear EVERYONE in the farm from any location. (me and my coworkers said we'd quit if we had to use that set up).
there are 120 people on my floor. about 40 of them are in "offices". The rest of us are in cubes.
We have NOT been encouraged to come back to the office - even though the office is open and many of the people with "offices" are back in the office.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 20, 2024 5:12:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 13:25:15 GMT -5
I think a lot of people are overwhelmed right now, for various reasons. And I think we could all show each other a bit of compassion and kindness since it looks like it’s up to us to figure this shit out and look out for each other. Considering the lack of good leadership, we’re all we got. I understand the stress of the people who have to make decisions regarding our school age children. It’s just instinct for most of us to want to protect children as much as possible, at least it is for me, and it doesn’t matter if their my children or yours. I want ALL of our children to be safe and happy. I do not envy the educators that are faced with such difficult decisions right now. I do agree with what Opti said earlier, most essential workers probably do understand the concerns and fears of the teachers and others that work in schools. We may not be working with little germ factories (children), but some of us have to deal with the general public who are sometimes worse than children in refusing to follow the rules and acting ugly, or we have coworkers that are the same. Our school system is giving parents the choice of sending their children to school or have them learn virtually. I understand that working parents feel they have no choice, and that makes me sad.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,040
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 9, 2020 13:27:11 GMT -5
i think Trump senses a rare winning issue here.
he knows that most people are aware of the low infection rates for kids. he is also aware that the cost of daycare is too high for most folks to afford it. and finally, he knows that people are going to be running out of money without work.
the combination of cuts in UE benefits and getting kids back in school is going to appeal to many.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 9, 2020 13:29:56 GMT -5
To be honest, I think it's the densely populated Urban area schools that will have the most trouble opening ... Long bus rides for suburban and rural schools should also be a factor considered.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 9, 2020 13:31:45 GMT -5
i think Trump senses a rare winning issue here. he knows that most people are aware of the low infection rates for kids. he is also aware that the cost of daycare is too high for most folks to afford it. and finally, he knows that people are going to be running out of money without work. the combination of cuts in UE benefits and getting kids back in school is going to appeal to many. and of course he attacking people who want to make it political.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jul 9, 2020 13:42:45 GMT -5
i think Trump senses a rare winning issue here. he knows that most people are aware of the low infection rates for kids. he is also aware that the cost of daycare is too high for most folks to afford it. and finally, he knows that people are going to be running out of money without work. the combination of cuts in UE benefits and getting kids back in school is going to appeal to many. That's a great insight into his push and makes sense. Which just SUCKS because there's just so many that will just see trump pushing for it and be like neon flashing sign this is a bad idea because he's sucked soooo bad at everything else. So it leads them to ignore or downplay valid thoughts that line up with him because it's trump. I disagree with why he wants it or at the very least most of why he's pushing it, and the way he's pushing it, but I don't think the idea minus him is wrong.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,680
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jul 9, 2020 13:52:15 GMT -5
To be honest, I think it's the densely populated Urban area schools that will have the most trouble opening ... Long bus rides for suburban and rural schools should also be a factor considered. I hope those aren't too long and some of the kids crack the bus windows for air circulation.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 9, 2020 13:53:33 GMT -5
i think Trump senses a rare winning issue here. he knows that most people are aware of the low infection rates for kids. he is also aware that the cost of daycare is too high for most folks to afford it. and finally, he knows that people are going to be running out of money without work. the combination of cuts in UE benefits and getting kids back in school is going to appeal to many. That's a great insight into his push and makes sense. Which just SUCKS because there's just so many that will just see trump pushing for it and be like neon flashing sign this is a bad idea because he's sucked soooo bad at everything else. So it leads them to ignore or downplay valid thoughts that line up with him because it's trump. I disagree with why he wants it or at the very least most of why he's pushing it, and the way he's pushing it, but I don't think the idea minus him is wrong. My ex was a teacher who had very high expectations of her students. She also had very high expectations she placed on herself to help her students meet her standards. If President Trump was saying "Schools must open and I will work very hard to help them meet CDC conditions so they will be able to do so safely", I would be there with him. But he is saying "Schools must open and I will be demand that standards be lowered to make it happen."
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,433
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 9, 2020 13:57:37 GMT -5
Long bus rides for suburban and rural schools should also be a factor considered. I hope those aren't too long and some of the kids crack the bus windows for air circulation. lol, "hope" will have no impact on the miles and I am sure that open windows will be an option at least for a while into the fall and longer in some parts of the country.
|
|
resolution
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:09:56 GMT -5
Posts: 6,967
Mini-Profile Name Color: 305b2b
|
Post by resolution on Jul 9, 2020 14:05:41 GMT -5
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jul 9, 2020 14:16:30 GMT -5
I skimmed but didn't see anything on the execution. Meaning, for example, yea unemployment was increased and some parts waived but did nothing to help the execution. It took me around 6 weeks before I got my UE payments - and I applied in May which was 2 months into this. Luckily I had savings and was back from my furlough by the time I got it. But delays in payment, not informing the right people about it (this is the first I've heard about it, but not low income or a parent), barriers to applying, could have resulted in poor execution and a small amount getting it even if the program was adopted by the state.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,912
|
Post by bean29 on Jul 9, 2020 14:23:21 GMT -5
To be fair, the Oregon governor--who is a democrat-- pulled the same crap last week. "Wear masks or I won't let schools reopen in the fall." It's incredibly frustrating. I see that more as, if we all wear masks and control the illness... then schools can open. If we don't and this thing reaches critical mass here... like it is in many states... it's unlikely. My cousin just texted and asked if I'd homeschool their kids till this is over. Are you doing the homeschool consulting you thought about doing? What are you planning to do in fall? I know you had assisted a local school district in spring - but don't know if that will continue in fall or not?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,040
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 9, 2020 14:26:17 GMT -5
That's a great insight into his push and makes sense. Which just SUCKS because there's just so many that will just see trump pushing for it and be like neon flashing sign this is a bad idea because he's sucked soooo bad at everything else. So it leads them to ignore or downplay valid thoughts that line up with him because it's trump. I disagree with why he wants it or at the very least most of why he's pushing it, and the way he's pushing it, but I don't think the idea minus him is wrong. My ex was a teacher who had very high expectations of her students. She also had very high expectations she placed on herself to help her students meet her standards. If President Trump was saying "Schools must open and I will work very hard to help them meet CDC conditions so they will be able to do so safely", I would be there with him. But he is saying "Schools must open and I will be demand that standards be lowered to make it happen." precisely. I think that he will make even this potential winner a break even to lose simply because his attitude about it is all wrong.
|
|