nidena
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Post by nidena on Jul 2, 2020 23:30:34 GMT -5
I looked for old threads on the topic and came across one from sesfw from last year but there wasn't much there to help me. Has anyone in the Midwest gone solar? I don't close on the house until next week so I have no idea what the electric bills will be for it. My only basis for comparison is my 30-year old, 2nd floor apartment with single-pane windows and a 25-year old water heater. I do expect to be in the house for decades so I know the investment would be worth it. I'm curious about the cons moreso than the pros. If I install it, I'm wondering if I could attach the panels to the detached garage that is only ten feet from the house rather than bolting them to the actual house. That way, if there is any kind of leak, it's not in the attic. Anyhow, what have been your or your friend's/family's experiences with solar.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 2, 2020 23:35:18 GMT -5
The cons off the top of my head is a large up front investment (or financing), the panels have an end life and the efficiency decreasing as time goes down, damage is probably a problem if it's somewhere with snow/hail/ice, if you get snow that's a chunk of the year you don't actually get energy from it, depending upon how your roof is you might no be able to place the panels optimally, there's not a good way to store the energy as far as I know and some places are putting a kibosh on selling your energy back.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jul 3, 2020 9:11:35 GMT -5
Your realtor should be able to pull the utility bills for the last two years with the seller's consent. If you want to know what the past usage has been, all you need to do is ask.
We own a house in Arizona. We spend 4 months there every winter. About 6 years ago, our next door neighbors installed solar panels on the top of their two story house. At the time, the neighbors weighed the pros and cons and came to the conclusion that the solar panels would not really SAVE them money, the solar panels would FIX their electric costs for the next 10 years. So, any electric savings would be only the rate increases over the next 10 years. Then the neighbors sold their house and moved within a few months.
New owners moved in and all was well for a few months. After a period of time, the neighborhood pigeons moved in under the solar panel. They make nests and have babies. The pigeons poop and manure runs down the side of the house when it rains. The neighbors paid an abatement company to fortify the solar panel against the pigeons. The birds had the abatement ripped off within 2 weeks. Now we are back to a pile of bird manure on the ground directly underneath the solar panel and bird excrement splashed on the stucco of the house next door. This family has two small children and I would be very concerned to have little people next to this mess.
My advice is to move into your new home and don't make any big decisions for a year. Once you experience how the mechanical systems work in your new home, you will have better insight to make changes if you so desire.
Congratulations on buying your own home!
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 3, 2020 9:45:33 GMT -5
Nidena .......... my suggestion for solar is a solar water heater first. See what that does for your electric bill.
I know when we installed a solar water heater around 1978 it cut our electric bill by 1/3 ($50) per month, and the last time I looked at the house the system was still there. This was about 5 miles out of town in the Flagstaff AZ area.
Moving into this home in the Phx area in 2007 we put in a solar water heater within two years. No problems at all. But we don't have the midwest winters here so did the full house solar last year. No problems.
Personally I would start with a water heater. The two systems are completely separate. Good luck with your decision.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 3, 2020 9:53:29 GMT -5
This corner of the Midwest is not good for solar. Lake Michigan creates extra cloud cover much of the year. I do work for a utility, however, and a handful of customers have solar. There is a program where they can sell back unused electricity from it, but that is highly dependent upon the particular electric company in the area.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 3, 2020 9:58:09 GMT -5
I guess I'm Midwest (41.8781° N) near Chicago. I have not gone Solar. I have been Solar Cooking for more than a decade - and find the whole solar power thing incredibly interesting/wonderful. So, I guess I'm more of an "armchair" solar power proponent. There are lots of solar hot water systems in my neighborhood - on houses, apartment buildings and businesses (the hot water systems seem to work really well for many unit, vintage, radiator heated Apartment buildings and vintage radiator heated houses.) I'm starting to see solar panels appear on top of regular houses. There was a Solar panel company marketing strongly in the area about 2 years ago. An acquaintance opted to have the system installed on their house. The placement of their house, the pitch of the roof, the type of roof, the age of the roofing material all played a part in the price of the system. There were a few bumps getting it installed and working (and then it was December - our least sunny month...) so they had to wait until the end of February to really start to see any consistency. I haven't heard any complaints about the system - but I also haven't asked. My house is a good candidate for solar - but the cost of the electricity I use is about $30 a month for 6 months... and then $90 a month for 3 months and then $60 a month for 3 months - or about $700 a year. The taxes, fees, delivery, other charges add in about another $400. I'm spending about $1200 a year. I haven't asked my acquaintance if he's got a portion of his "electric" bill that covers the taxes, fees, delivery, other charges... I strongly suspect there's some 'constant' that they are required to pay every month. I also have not asked if they "sell" electricity during times of high output. (maybe it's more of a credit to their bill?). I know they opted for an electric lawnmower and an electric stove. I know they are a family of 4 (so they probably use a heck of lot more electricity than I do. I have one TV, one computer, etc..) I would think if they opt for an electric vehicle - their solar panels may help with that cost as well. Not sure. I would not immediately "write off" solar as too expensive or "not worth the effort". The advice to move into the house and use the first year to get settled and collect information about the house and your future plans is a good one. (I had great success lowering my electric usage by going with energy star appliances (and anything that plugs into the wall) and I was amazed at the usage reduction when I replaced many of the incandescent bulbs with LED. I did NOT replace every bulb with an LED, just the ones in light fixtures that I use every day (kitchen, hall way, frunchroom( living room), bedroom) and that are on for more than "I walked in the room, turned on a light, did something quick, turned off the light as I was leaving the room"
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jul 3, 2020 10:50:54 GMT -5
I've been in Indianapolis since only January so I definitely don't have a good idea for the winters here. I know it didn't snow much in the short time of winter that I've been here. There has been a number of rainy days.
The only immediate change I'll be making on the house is replacing a room of carpet with linoleum. It's gonna be the cat room and the carpet in there would make it too difficult to see where the one cat messes. But definitely nothing planned for the remainder of the year.
The last house I bought, I replaced eight single-pane windows just four months after moving in. This house, thankfully, needs no such major changes.
But I do want to do any changes that are major money-savers earlier rather than later.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 3, 2020 11:06:22 GMT -5
Another thing we did with this home. It has an interior room that has very little natural light so we put in a solar tube. I would love to put another one in the garage but haven't gotten around to that yet.
Lighting is a lot better and it's really neat when the moon is full. The normally dark room is lit in the middle of the night.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 3, 2020 11:24:12 GMT -5
But I do want to do any changes that are major money-savers earlier rather than later. I'd recommend figuring out how much the fridge pulls and possibly insulating pipes and blanketing the hot water heater in the first year. None of these are particularly sexy or expensive but they have really short payback periods. The fridge is the biggie. Replacing a fridge that is over ten years old may finance every other efficiency upgrade in the house. The unsexy part of it is that you may discover that your best bet is replacing a perfectly functional fridge in order to do so.
Does the new house have AC? If so, how old is it?
How shady is the house and is there a place that is a good candidate for a shade tree?
New windows and solar systems can wait until after the plumbing has plugged, the fuse box has blown, or the special assessment for sewer upgrades shows up.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jul 3, 2020 11:26:42 GMT -5
Another thing we did with this home. It has an interior room that has very little natural light so we put in a solar tube. I would love to put another one in the garage but haven't gotten around to that yet. Lighting is a lot better and it's really neat when the moon is full. The normally dark room is lit in the middle of the night. So, it's always lit? I looked them up and they sound really useful. It might be something I consider for the kitchen which is in the middle of the house and has no windows. It has a window that used to look to the outside but that space--the patio--was converted into a room. That room is the one where I'll be putting in the linoleum.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jul 3, 2020 11:30:06 GMT -5
But I do want to do any changes that are major money-savers earlier rather than later. I'd recommend figuring out how much the fridge pulls and possibly insulating pipes and blanketing the hot water heater in the first year. None of these are particularly sexy or expensive but they have really short payback periods. The fridge is the biggie. Replacing a fridge that is over ten years old may finance every other efficiency upgrade in the house. The unsexy part of it is that you may discover that your best bet is replacing a perfectly functional fridge in order to do so.
Does the new house have AC? If so, how old is it?
How shady is the house and is there a place that is a good candidate for a shade tree?
New windows and solar systems can wait until after the plumbing has plugged, the fuse box has blown, or the special assessment for sewer upgrades shows up.
The fridge is new, replaced in the past year. The water heater is in the laundry room part of the basement and not near an exterior wall. The ac is nearing the end of its average life span but could still have years left. It was inspected recently. There's a large shade tree in the back and the front. Only the dining room side is treeless. It's on the east side of the house so is probably very sunny in the morning.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jul 3, 2020 12:22:00 GMT -5
Another thing we did with this home. It has an interior room that has very little natural light so we put in a solar tube. I would love to put another one in the garage but haven't gotten around to that yet. Lighting is a lot better and it's really neat when the moon is full. The normally dark room is lit in the middle of the night. DH suggested we put in a light tube when we were having the house shingled. We have an interior bathroom that had no natural light source. The bathroom is now bright in the daytime and the street lights illuminate the dome in the night making for a great night light. They work well in dark hallways too.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 3, 2020 13:44:04 GMT -5
You need to look at the ROI when compared to your electric bills. I would not make any sort of decision about this until you have been in your house a year.
For us, our electric bills run around $80/mo, which is about $1000/year. It would be around a 20 year payback for it to make sense for us. However, we have friends whose home is wholly electric and their roof is better angled in that it does make sense for them. They also were able to take advantage of the huge tax advantage (which has since ended).
We did have someone from the local electric company come by and try to sell us on them. Despite being heavily wooded, facing the wrong direction and in the PNW, I told them thanks but no thanks. We had already looked into it.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jul 3, 2020 19:02:06 GMT -5
Thankfully, the ridgeline runs east/west so, if I did put them on the house, they'd get sun from morning until night, weather permitting; and the garage is a square with no ridgeline, just a peak...so panels could go on all four angles of the roof.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jul 3, 2020 22:06:51 GMT -5
Hubs figured up would cost us about $40k to put them in. The payback would be years.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 3, 2020 22:16:17 GMT -5
I have done some analysis on several municipal solar installations. Every analysis showed it would take about 30 years to recover the cost of the installation, excluding any rebates. (Taxpayers fund the rebates, so I consider the pre-rebate cost to be the true cost of the installation.) A 30 year payback period assumes that the panels do not lose efficiency over time. (Not true, the efficiency of solar panels declines over time.) And that you do not have the opportunity to invest the money you spent on the solar system.
For most folks who have access to the power grid, the decision to go solar seems to be more of an environmental or social decision than a cost saving strategy.
That said, I am under the impression that solar hardware is now much less expensive than it was a few years ago. While I am skeptical about solar panels and electricity storage systems as a cost saving strategy, each person needs to do a realistic financial analysis of the cost/benefit for their local utility area.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 4, 2020 11:41:32 GMT -5
Hubs figured up would cost us about $40k to put them in. The payback would be years.
Our whole system cost $19,900 and change. This includes a storage battery. We won't live long enough to see payback but we choose to get the system.
We have more than 300 days of sunshine per year here so it's working well for us.
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movinonup
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Post by movinonup on Jul 4, 2020 12:53:25 GMT -5
Google has a site that estimates your savings. It estimates the amount of annual usable sunlight and how much of your roof is available to mount solar panels. www.google.com/get/sunroof/how-it-works/I think the tax benefits decrease each year. Also check if the local utility or the state provides any financial incentives for energy efficient improvements. -movinonup
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jul 4, 2020 13:56:25 GMT -5
The solar 'calculators' always ignore what that money would do if you had NOT spent the $20,000 on solar. If you put $20,000 into an SP500 Index, it normally doubles every 7 years on average. So $20k grows to $40k in 7 yrs, $80k in 14 years, $160k in 21 years - and so on. I doubt that any solar system "pays for itself", ever.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 4, 2020 17:06:20 GMT -5
I have estimates for a solar installation on an apt. building. There is a 26% tax credit for this year. Because it is a commercial application I can depreciate 85% of the cost over 6 years. One version of this allows 50% of the depreciation year 1. Then the first year estimate for savings is $5000. Electricity costs will continue to rise into the future. Also the sales tax is waived.
Cost = $70,000 Tax credit =$18,200 Depreciation = $59,500 over 6 years avg. = $9916 Sales tax savings of 8.5% = $5950 Savings on electric bill = $5000 1st year and going up 30 yr. warranty
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 5, 2020 10:54:45 GMT -5
The solar 'calculators' always ignore what that money would do if you had NOT spent the $20,000 on solar. If you put $20,000 into an SP500 Index, it normally doubles every 7 years on average. So $20k grows to $40k in 7 yrs, $80k in 14 years, $160k in 21 years - and so on. I doubt that any solar system "pays for itself", ever. just as you ignored the cost of non-solar electricity over the years?
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 5, 2020 10:55:31 GMT -5
I have estimates for a solar installation on an apt. building. There is a 26% tax credit for this year. Because it is a commercial application I can depreciate 85% of the cost over 6 years. One version of this allows 50% of the depreciation year 1. Then the first year estimate for savings is $5000. Electricity costs will continue to rise into the future. Also the sales tax is waived. Cost = $70,000Tax credit =$18,200 Depreciation = $59,500 over 6 years avg. = $9916 Sales tax savings of 8.5% = $5950 Savings on electric bill = $5000 1st year and going up 30 yr. warranty that's pretty pricey. how many units in the building?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jul 5, 2020 12:50:48 GMT -5
I have estimates for a solar installation on an apt. building. There is a 26% tax credit for this year. Because it is a commercial application I can depreciate 85% of the cost over 6 years. One version of this allows 50% of the depreciation year 1. Then the first year estimate for savings is $5000. Electricity costs will continue to rise into the future. Also the sales tax is waived. Cost = $70,000Tax credit =$18,200 Depreciation = $59,500 over 6 years avg. = $9916 Sales tax savings of 8.5% = $5950 Savings on electric bill = $5000 1st year and going up 30 yr. warranty that's pretty pricey. how many units in the building? 24 and currently in process to add 2 more in an old community room and office/storeroom.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Jul 5, 2020 13:08:01 GMT -5
The solar 'calculators' always ignore what that money would do if you had NOT spent the $20,000 on solar. If you put $20,000 into an SP500 Index, it normally doubles every 7 years on average. So $20k grows to $40k in 7 yrs, $80k in 14 years, $160k in 21 years - and so on. I doubt that any solar system "pays for itself", ever. just as you ignored the cost of non-solar electricity over the years? I get what Phil is saying. Reminds me of my last house that was heated with propane. I was responsible to spend the money up front to fill the tank. Often times, I would prepay a winter's worth of propane in the summer months to get the best price. Today I have a different house with natural gas that bills me monthly. One house cost me $4000 up front to stay warm. The next house costs me $60 a month only in the winter to stay warm. Solar is like this example over a 20 year span, instead of just one heating season as in my example. I feel as all technology improves, so will solar. I doubt the current installations will be relevant for a 20 year span. Although I have seen some really old wind turbines outside of Palm Springs, CA - so what do I know?
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Jul 5, 2020 13:18:01 GMT -5
I see now they may be starting to lease the systems here. But our geo thermal and stuff pulls a lot of electricity.
We just think at our age not really practical and southern Indiana has a lot of gloomy days.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Jul 5, 2020 15:34:52 GMT -5
From all the websites I've looked at, the cost of solar installation has gone down every year. On the flip side, the cost of electricity has gone up. But it doesn't appear that what I'd pay for a year or two of regular electricity will be more than the amount I'd save by waiting that year or two.
I'm a big fan of LED bulbs. You can use them in more fixtures than you can in CFLs. Those get too hot in closed-in fixtures.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 5, 2020 18:08:38 GMT -5
All of our light bulbs are LEDs ....... both inside and outside.
All of our Christmas lights are LEDs ...... both inside and outside.
Really see the difference during the Holiday season. Years ago our power bill would almost double for December, now they are consistent with the rest of the year.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 11, 2020 18:58:47 GMT -5
I see now they may be starting to lease the systems here. But our geo thermal and stuff pulls a lot of electricity. We just think at our age not really practical and southern Indiana has a lot of gloomy days. I wonder if high efficiency motors for your geo thermal pumps might be an opportunity for you? At least when it comes time to replace pumps. I suspect that like many other things, your geo thermal system was engineered with components that allow sale at a particular price point, rather than using the components that will be the most cost effective over the long term.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 13, 2020 18:48:51 GMT -5
In many areas you can call the utility companies and get the utility bills for your house and for similar houses in the neighborhood. This only works if the house has not been vacant for a long time. If your bills are higher than the neighbors, You might get more bang for your buck dealing with unsexy infrastructure things like weatherstripping, new appliances furnace and AC.
And there’s something to be said for waiting a while and see how things shake out. You don’t know if your property taxes are going to go up by 50%, like Iurs did, or if a bunch of appliances are going to break at the same time.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 9:41:34 GMT -5
If we turn the congress and executive branch blue, would tax breaks increase?
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