Companies changing logos branding- Aunt Jemima

[weltschmerz]

Jun 21, 2020 15:12:51 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 21, 2020 13:44:55 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Just for the sake of information, Ms., Mr., and Mrs. does not exist in the Russian language. All of my parents' friends were 'Aunt" and "Uncle' to me.
The polite way to address someone is Name and Patronymic.
If my name is Maria, and my father's name is Ivan, the respectful way to address me is Maria Ivanovna.

I don't think the Mammie culture nor the pancake people in 1915 were following Russian nomenclature.

I know. That's why I prefaced my post with "Just for the sake of information."

[nidena]

Jun 21, 2020 10:29:35 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Here is the AP's article refuting that.

apnews.com/afs:Content:9030960288

I have a problem with Wikipedia, because anyone can change it - so I always train of salt, but here is another perspective.

Specifically read the character section:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunt_Jemima


This one states Nancy Green was a model and a spokeswoman, but it wasn't her formula. If she were a millionaire in 1923, why was she working as a housekeeper? I doubt a food company would have made a contributor a millionaire - especially a black woman at that time. It is a pleasant story, with no mention of racism, but also isn't what the facebook post says, nor does it mention her wealthy status.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Green




Here is the song, which was often sung in blackface.



Here is a link to a book about her

www.amazon.com/dp/0813918111/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_-I37EbGYBB8XS

The summary of this book does not seem to support the millionaire, independent happy cook story.

And then, of course, the logical answer.

No one knew her story. Changing the name doesn't take away a lovely history that we all sat down and discussed at breakfast every time we had pancakes. I bet less than 2% of Americans had any clue who Nancy Green was before last week.

If her history is so important (and the lovely millionaire story is so accurate), let's put up a statue. Let's put her picture and story and proof of her widely successful food brand in museums. I hear there is a big push to empty some podiums in various parks and civic spaces across the south these days. Maybe this is the opportunity to put up the story of a supremely successful black woman who took the white guys who needed her pancake recipe for more than one million dollars.

You got me to thinking...
If she was so important, why haven't we heard anyone trying to be like her?  I mean, every Black woman I know talks about the importance of Madam C.J. Walker and, if they are stylists, she is their inspiration.  Why don't we hear people talking about how inspirational Nancy Green was/is?  Black singers talk about Ella and Nina, and those women went through some crap in their lives.  I find it REALLY hard to believe that a cook--a mammy caricature--had such an easy life as the history that is supposedly being erased.  The dissonance or disconnect is just too large between what they're telling us about her and what we know to be true regarding the Black existence 100 years ago. 

[thyme4change]

Because some people don't give a shit about black people or their stories. They just want to keep (at best) things the same or (worse) black people in an inferior position on our society. Their interest in thos story is full on fake-ass, bullshit. They are trying to trick us.

[nidena]

My question was more rhetorical then not.  When I read some of the comments on the various facebook threads about this, I want to both chuckle and cry.  The company created Aunt Jemima solely to portray a warm, mammy-figure taking care of her white children.  I've read that in more than one article that was written before it came out they were going to change the packaging.  And the people that are up in arms are the ones who identified with that.  There is such a disconnect between them mentally inserting themselves in this persona and the fact that because it's a caricature depicting a servant is why it needs to go.  I imagine these same people would have or do have the hardest time realizing that "romantic" plantation homes are nothing more than former concentration camps for Blacks.

There would not be nearly the same uproar if Energizer decided to never use their bunny again.  Or if Keebler pivoted away from their elves.  Brands change.  Brands have to change to survive.  So many people up in arms and they probably haven't bought syrup in years.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It is the same uproar over Harriet Tubman being put on the $20 bill.   I had so many people try to tell me it would be a waste of tax payer money because all the bills would have to be redesigned and reprinted.

Umm. . .take a look in your wallet right now. . money has been redesigned and reprinted numerous times.   Not one peep.

Yet when it's to put a black woman on a piece of money HOLY CRAP money is sacred and unchangable!

I never got an answer as to whether or not they would be as pissed off about waste if they were replacing Andrew Jackson with Teddy Roosevelt or an equally white male president.

[thyme4change]

Jun 23, 2020 11:05:56 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

It is the same uproar over Harriet Tubman being put on the $20 bill.   I had so many people try to tell me it would be a waste of tax payer money because all the bills would have to be redesigned and reprinted.

Umm. . .take a look in your wallet right now. . money has been redesigned and reprinted numerous times.   Not one peep.

Yet when it's to put a black woman on a piece of money HOLY CRAP money is sacred and unchangable!

I never got an answer as to whether or not they would be as pissed off about waste if they were replacing Andrew Jackson with Teddy Roosevelt or an equally white male president.

Actually, when they did the big change a while ago and used all new pictures, it was a pretty big deal. A lot of people really hated it. Tubman was a bigger hurdle for sure, but the change was infuriating to some people, leaving the same people and just using indifferent picture. Not sure why. There are a lot of stupid people out there.

[justme]

So on FB I've seen someone post about another woman who was Aunt Jemima and how her family is talking about her being erased. Well if no one knows who the fuck Aunt Jemima actually was or of there was 2 dozen of them she's already been erased!

[weltschmerz]

It is the same uproar over Harriet Tubman being put on the $20 bill. I had so many people try to tell me it would be a waste of tax payer money because all the bills would have to be redesigned and reprinted.

We put Viola Desmond (our Rosa Parks, but earlier) on the $10 bill. People did not complain, but there were roars of approval. Nobody complained about wasting taxpayer money.





humanrights.ca/story/one-womans-resistance

[thyme4change]

Jun 23, 2020 11:02:36 GMT -5 nidena said:

There would not be nearly the same uproar if Energizer decided to never use their bunny again.  Or if Keebler pivoted away from their elves.  Brands change.  Brands have to change to survive.  So many people up in arms and they probably haven't bought syrup in years.

How long until we can get of those dumb charmin bears. They started more than 20 years ago. Does a bear shit in the woods - I get the joke - but when will it end??

#bearslivesmatter

[weltschmerz]

I can't stand those bears.

[Tiny]

Jun 23, 2020 11:05:56 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

It is the same uproar over Harriet Tubman being put on the $20 bill.   I had so many people try to tell me it would be a waste of tax payer money because all the bills would have to be redesigned and reprinted.

Umm. . .take a look in your wallet right now. . money has been redesigned and reprinted numerous times.   Not one peep.

Yet when it's to put a black woman on a piece of money HOLY CRAP money is sacred and unchangable!

I never got an answer as to whether or not they would be as pissed off about waste if they were replacing Andrew Jackson with Teddy Roosevelt or an equally white male president.

Not to mention plenty of other companies and products have had their branding changed (when was the last time you saw Ronald McDonald in an advertisement or on the packaging?  And what about when Kentucky Fried Chicken became KFC?  And that Nike swoop thing?  ) I don't remember anyone being upset with Ronald vanished from view.   

And as for KFC - I'm kind of surprise the state of Kentucky didn't vanish as it was erased from the history of Fried Chicken.  Or that Fried Chicken wasn't erased from memory.   And now we just eat breaded chicken.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Speaking of KFC I asked DH now who is the colonel going to dance with at his plantation if they get rid of Mrs Butterworth?

I still can't believe not a single person in their advertising department raised a hand and went "Umm. . ."

[thyme4change]

Jun 23, 2020 14:16:16 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Jun 23, 2020 11:05:56 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

It is the same uproar over Harriet Tubman being put on the $20 bill.   I had so many people try to tell me it would be a waste of tax payer money because all the bills would have to be redesigned and reprinted.

Umm. . .take a look in your wallet right now. . money has been redesigned and reprinted numerous times.   Not one peep.

Yet when it's to put a black woman on a piece of money HOLY CRAP money is sacred and unchangable!

I never got an answer as to whether or not they would be as pissed off about waste if they were replacing Andrew Jackson with Teddy Roosevelt or an equally white male president.

Not to mention plenty of other companies and products have had their branding changed (when was the last time you saw Ronald McDonald in an advertisement or on the packaging?  And what about when Kentucky Fried Chicken became KFC?  And that Nike swoop thing?  ) I don't remember anyone being upset with Ronald vanished from view.   

And as for KFC - I'm kind of surprise the state of Kentucky didn't vanish as it was erased from the history of Fried Chicken.  Or that Fried Chicken wasn't erased from memory.   And now we just eat breaded chicken.  

The very first pair of Nikes had the swoosh. Not sure why it is in that list.

[thyme4change]

I just went and looked at my Cream of Wheat box in my pantry. Sure as shit, there is a black cook on it, in a pristine white uniform with a red bow tie. I am so clueless. I don't recall seeing him, ever. And that is white blindness in a nutshell. There is slave imaginary in my cabinet for my entire life, and I didn't even care enough to notice its existence at all. 🤬

[nidena]

Jun 23, 2020 13:48:24 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 23, 2020 11:02:36 GMT -5 nidena said:

There would not be nearly the same uproar if Energizer decided to never use their bunny again.  Or if Keebler pivoted away from their elves.  Brands change.  Brands have to change to survive.  So many people up in arms and they probably haven't bought syrup in years.

How long until we can get of those dumb charmin bears. They started more than 20 years ago. Does a bear shit in the woods - I get the joke - but when will it end??

#bearslivesmatter

Enjoy the GO!  

[mcsangel2]

Jun 20, 2020 7:54:48 GMT -5 Opti said:

Thank you for the OP. I was OK with the rebranding of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's prior to reading this. Now I am unsure about the former. The Eskimo pies one I admit I don't get. 

Eskimo is considered a racial slur by some because of the way it has been used by non-natives.

[thyme4change]

I guess we gotta rebrand eskimo kisses too.

[Opti]

Jun 23, 2020 14:39:41 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Speaking of KFC I asked DH now who is the colonel going to dance with at his plantation if they get rid of Mrs Butterworth?

I still can't believe not a single person in their advertising department raised a hand and went "Umm. . ."

They certainly could change it, he's been dead for awhile. His life is an interesting story, I only knew part of it.

Colonel Harland David Sanders was an American businessman, best known for founding fast food chicken restaurant chain Kentucky Fried Chicken and later acting as the company's brand ambassador and symbol. His name and image are still symbols of the company. The title 'colonel' was honorary – a Kentucky Colonel – not the military rank.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Sanders

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 25, 2020 15:43:57 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I guess we gotta rebrand eskimo kisses too.

I'll be honest that never made one lick of sense to me. Why would eskimos kiss differently than other people?

I imagine if we dug deep enough it is probably a stereotype.

I've always called them gnome kisses cause I was obsessed with David the Gnome as a kid.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 25, 2020 18:06:30 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 25, 2020 15:43:57 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I guess we gotta rebrand eskimo kisses too.

I'll be honest that never made one lick of sense to me. Why would eskimos kiss differently than other people?

I imagine if we dug deep enough it is probably a stereotype.

I've always called them gnome kisses cause I was obsessed with David the Gnome as a kid.

When two people greet each other by rubbing their noses together, we call this cute gesture an Eskimo kiss. The commonly told story of Eskimo kisses is that people living in the frigid north can’t engage in a traditional mouth-to-mouth kiss because their lips might freeze together in the cold. This story is, of course, untrue, however many Inuit cultures do rub their noses together.

curioushistorian.com/the-truth-behind-eskimo-kisses

That being said, the word Eskimo is offensive to some. It's derogatory in the Inuit culture.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 25, 2020 19:24:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jun 25, 2020 18:06:30 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I'll be honest that never made one lick of sense to me. Why would eskimos kiss differently than other people?

I imagine if we dug deep enough it is probably a stereotype.

I've always called them gnome kisses cause I was obsessed with David the Gnome as a kid.

When two people greet each other by rubbing their noses together, we call this cute gesture an Eskimo kiss. The commonly told story of Eskimo kisses is that people living in the frigid north can’t engage in a traditional mouth-to-mouth kiss because their lips might freeze together in the cold. This story is, of course, untrue, however many Inuit cultures do rub their noses together.

curioushistorian.com/the-truth-behind-eskimo-kisses

That being said, the word Eskimo is offensive to some. It's derogatory in the Inuit culture.

Yeah I just came across that info in a book I'm reading. Learned something new.

[thyme4change]

Jun 25, 2020 19:24:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jun 25, 2020 18:06:30 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

.

That being said, the word Eskimo is offensive to some. It's derogatory in the Inuit culture.

This is new info to me. I can't think of the last time I used the word Eskimo, but I will be careful going forward. I don't run into that culture - pretty much ever.

I use Native Americans, but all the Native Americans I know still proudly call themselves Indians. I'm wondering if that will phase out generationally. It would help me out, because then I won't have to distinguish India-Indians. As I seem to have a growing number of people with that background in my life.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 26, 2020 7:54:17 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 25, 2020 19:24:00 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That being said, the word Eskimo is offensive to some. It's derogatory in the Inuit culture.

This is new info to me. I can't think of the last time I used the word Eskimo, but I will be careful going forward. I don't run into that culture - pretty much ever.

I use Native Americans, but all the Native Americans I know still proudly call themselves Indians. I'm wondering if that will phase out generationally. It would help me out, because then I won't have to distinguish India-Indians. As I seem to have a growing number of people with that background in my life.

We haven't called them Indians in a really, really long time. They're "First Nations" and a huge part of the Canadian diaspora.