Corona outbreak in Oregon tied to Church

[swamp]

apnews.com/b2d7a8af05e862dc3e1d1c3d0cf0afd0?fbclid=IwAR2CgqjcWNIoIbKpKJaO9BF55TU1hP1zwwHtePZFp12nRJobqlchtXUouQ4

Imagine that, packing people into a small space spreads coronavirus. 

[sesfw]

   

[Tennesseer]

Pray together, you get the plague together.

Amen.

[pulmonarymd]

But, you mean it is not related to the protests. Isn't that what all the conservatives are having a cow about. Shocked, I tell you, shocked

[haapai]

While I remain amazed that anyone thinks that attending church as normal isn't insanely risky and possibly homicidal, I also have to point our that it is really easy to figure out who attended religious services on a certain date. People tend to remember whether or not they went to services on a particular date. 

Please contrast this with a request from public health authorities who want o know who I worked with five to ten days ago.  Realistically speaking, I have no clue who I worked with unless I have access to a work schedule and accurate information regarding who showed up unscheduled and who called in.  Do you think that HR is helpful in such a situation?  Do you imagine that I somehow have the ability to inform my coworkers through a mass forum that they may have been exposed?  If you answer, yes, you don't know my workplace.  We do not have an unfiltered forum that we could use to transmit this information. 

I think that religious services are being unfairly identified as occasions that contribute to the spread of COVID-19 simply because they keep records and maintain web sites, e-mail lists, and phone trees.

end of rant. 

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 12:10:39 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Pray together, you get the plague together.

Amen.

No need for cynicism. What they did was just plain stupid. The Bishop in the Diocese for my denomination developed a set of guidelines that were different depending on the church and each church had to make a case to the Bishop for what date they'd start services, using the precautions already developed (masks, social distancing, no communion wine, no congregational singing, no coffee hour among others). My church, which had windows that could be open for air circulation and (sadly) average attendance well below our seating capacity, resumed services 5/31. So far so good. I should also mention that local secular authorities permitted it as well- so we were complying with the law but also using our brains.

The church in the article was open against local regulations and apparently not taking any precautions.

Matthew 4:7: "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

[lynnerself]

This is my state and I've been following this outbreak. See my posts on the "what does reopening look like in your state".

It's an interesting example of how a very small rural county with almost no cases can suddenly explode. A lot of the remote areas think they are immune somehow.At least they have a hospital, although a small one. The last figure I saw is that 5 people were hospitalized.

This outbreaks accounted for almost 1/2 of the new cases in the state for 2 days and has totally skewed statistics for the state.

The county voluntarily went from phase 2 to phase 1 restrictions.

When these outbreaks happen, the contact tracing gets interesting. By State standards they are only required to have a couple of employees for this job (based on county population). So they are totally overwhelmed.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 18, 2020 14:18:24 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jun 18, 2020 12:10:39 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Pray together, you get the plague together.

Amen.

No need for cynicism. What they did was just plain stupid. The Bishop in the Diocese for my denomination developed a set of guidelines that were different depending on the church and each church had to make a case to the Bishop for what date they'd start services, using the precautions already developed (masks, social distancing, no communion wine, no congregational singing, no coffee hour among others). My church, which had windows that could be open for air circulation and (sadly) average attendance well below our seating capacity, resumed services 5/31. So far so good. I should also mention that local secular authorities permitted it as well- so we were complying with the law but also using our brains.

The church in the article was open against local regulations and apparently not taking any precautions.

Matthew 4:7: "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

What you outlined is how a responsible leader would deal with these situations, have reasonable guidelines, and adjust them if a case can be made. Without leadership at the top, we are dependent on every leader being reasonable and rational, a big ask. But it goes to show how people will get bent out of shape about one risk, feel another, possibly riskier activity, is ok, because I agree with it or it is something I want to do. And why we are in the situation we are in.

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2020 14:35:56 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

What you outlined is how a responsible leader would deal with these situations, have reasonable guidelines, and adjust them if a case can be made. Without leadership at the top, we are dependent on every leader being reasonable and rational, a big ask. But it goes to show how people will get bent out of shape about one risk, feel another, possibly riskier activity, is ok, because I agree with it or it is something I want to do. And why we are in the situation we are in.

While I agree with sentiments you've expressed in earlier posts about lack of leadership at the top, I think this is a case where local leadership is even more important. NY is not MO, for example. Spikes at a local meatpacking plant or nursing home, while a serious matter needing to be addressed, mean something different than a spike in the general population. Of course, leadership at the top could have paid more attention to credible sources and led by example.

We'll remember come November.

[jerseygirl]

Our church published guidelines for opening next Sunday. Over 60 or vulnerable watch online at home. Only 50 in church that holds maybe 300 and normally filled. Need to register and bring ticket or QR code to enter. Collection basket for donations stays in back of church, urged to give online. Everyone must wear masks. No singing no shaking hands
Daily mass usually 2 dozen attendees so no ticket needed, still masks
etc

[empress of self-improvement]

I think I'll stick to the Church of My Bed for the rest of my life.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 18, 2020 14:54:24 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jun 18, 2020 14:35:56 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

What you outlined is how a responsible leader would deal with these situations, have reasonable guidelines, and adjust them if a case can be made. Without leadership at the top, we are dependent on every leader being reasonable and rational, a big ask. But it goes to show how people will get bent out of shape about one risk, feel another, possibly riskier activity, is ok, because I agree with it or it is something I want to do. And why we are in the situation we are in.

While I agree with sentiments you've expressed in earlier posts about lack of leadership at the top, I think this is a case where local leadership is even more important. NY is not MO, for example. Spikes at a local meatpacking plant or nursing home, while a serious matter needing to be addressed, mean something different than a spike in the general population. Of course, leadership at the top could have paid more attention to credible sources and led by example.

We'll remember come November.

Leadership matters because it sets a tone. If it was taken seriously at the top, people would work to do what was necessary. Unfortunately, with this disease, once it is established, you have to work hard to keep it contained. For example, if it is in a nursing home, someone brought it in from the outside. Where did it come from. Once inside, workers can then take it back out. Same with the meat-packing plants. So preventing it from being established is important. In addition, if leadership at the top was consistent, we would have a more unified plan, instead of the haphazard state-by-state approach. Now, competent local leadership can offset poor leadership, but it is not a replacement. 

If you look at Arizona, for example, they are headed for a disaster. 85% of beds are full. They need to lockdown again, or they are headed for a disaster. That is the risk of thinking because you are not NYC, you won't get as bad.

[Deleted]

If people wouldn't insist what they do needs to be an exemption from staying at home and away from other people, this pandemic would kill exponentially fewer people. 

In-person church services aren't a necessity during a pandemic. Neither are many other things people seem to have excuses for.

[haapai]

Also, it is summer.  Hold worship services in the parking lot or on a bit of adjacent grass, preferably shaded by trees or buildings..  Bring an umbrella for both rain and sun.  Why are we having these issues in the summer when they are so easy to overcome? 

[swamp]

The Catholic Church here used to hold what was called "camp mass" on Saturdays at about 5 pm.    It was in a field near where a whole bunch of people had waterfront camps, there was boat dockage available, and everyone would show up in their bathing suits and sit on blankets or lawn chairs.   

if you gotta go to church, that's how I want to do it.  

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jun 19, 2020 13:28:49 GMT -5 swamp said:

The Catholic Church here used to hold what was called "camp mass" on Saturdays at about 5 pm.    It was in a field near where a whole bunch of people had waterfront camps, there was boat dockage available, and everyone would show up in their bathing suits and sit on blankets or lawn chairs.   

if you gotta go to church, that's how I want to do it.  

Mass on Cape Cod in the summer is similar. And no Homily, and almost everyone heads straight out after Communion.

[resolution]

It will probably be a long time before I go back to mass at my church. We started back up on 05/31 with all kinds of restrictions, but from what I can see on the Facebook Live stream, the new rules are already being broken.

We got rid of the hymns and said no singing, but the congregation is still singing responses back to the priest and singing the Our Father. 
Masks are required at all times except when receiving the host, but I can see people leaving the altar with their masks still off.
People are also supposed to enter and exit the church in a certain pattern to limit contact between people, but apparently they are all ignoring it and walking wherever they please. 

[wvugurl26]

I am thankful my in laws have been going to outdoor mass. We loaned them chairs to take to sit in. We are going Wednesday night for a celebration. I've seen pictures of pews taped off and spacing but we will see. Hopefully due to the time it will be lightly attended.

[tskeeter]

Jun 18, 2020 13:01:54 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

But, you mean it is not related to the protests. Isn't that what all the conservatives are having a cow about. Shocked, I tell you, shocked

Not all the conservatives.  The media doesn’t present news based on actual statistical data.  I don’t believe that the media collected options from every conservative in the country.  If they did, they missed me.  What the media reports is the opinions of a very few, highly vocal folks whose statements are controversial.

A conservative who thinks social distancing, wearing a mask, and no large gatherings, including political rallies, and smaller paint brushes, are a good idea.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 20, 2020 12:50:26 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 18, 2020 13:01:54 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

But, you mean it is not related to the protests. Isn't that what all the conservatives are having a cow about. Shocked, I tell you, shocked

Not all the conservatives.  The media doesn’t present news based on actual statistical data.  I don’t believe that the media collected options from every conservative in the country.  If they did, they missed me.  What the media reports is the opinions of a very few, highly vocal folks whose statements are controversial.

A conservative who thinks social distancing, wearing a mask, and no large gatherings, including political rallies, and smaller paint brushes, are a good idea.

Unfortunately, rational conservatives are few and far between. Congratulations if you are one. But if you are planning on voting for the lying pos in the White House, you are still part of the problem

[jerseygirl]

Jun 20, 2020 14:27:10 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 20, 2020 12:50:26 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Not all the conservatives.  The media doesn’t present news based on actual statistical data.  I don’t believe that the media collected options from every conservative in the country.  If they did, they missed me.  What the media reports is the opinions of a very few, highly vocal folks whose statements are controversial.

A conservative who thinks social distancing, wearing a mask, and no large gatherings, including political rallies, and smaller paint brushes, are a good idea.

Unfortunately, rational conservatives are few and far between. Congratulations if you are one. But if you are planning on voting for the lying pos in the White House, you are still part of the problem

Yep they’re all deplorables - how’d that go last time?

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 20, 2020 16:09:45 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Jun 20, 2020 14:27:10 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Unfortunately, rational conservatives are few and far between. Congratulations if you are one. But if you are planning on voting for the lying pos in the White House, you are still part of the problem

Yep they’re all deplorables - how’d that go last time?

If they vote for this clusterfuck, they are. Never thought I would see conservatives be ok with threatening to use the military against America citizens in the US. Wasn’t the concern about helicopters being used by Obama a right wing talking point. Well, trump actually did. If you defend that, yes, you are a deplorable.

They pretzel that Republicans have twisted themselves into to defend trump’s actions is unbelievable. If a democratic president did it, there would be unending hearings o it. But all we hear are crickets from the republicans. They have forgotten that their responsibility is to the constitution, not trump.

Masks are a political issue, are you kidding me! The party of life, yeah right. 120,000 dead is an inconvenience. Trump criticized Biden over the H1N1 death toll. Any republicans care to comment? Haven’t heard it. Conservatives have lost their conscience. You might as well own ot