Former employer might be offering me a job

[bobosensei]

A former coworker sent me a text this morning saying a department that I used to work for just got funding for two positions (one that I used to do, and got the highest possible rating for when I did it) and the manager wants my number to offer me a position.  Now this lady should have my phone number.  I worked for her for nearly a year, and she called me all the time.  Plus I included her in my email of former coworkers where I gave my personal email and cell phone number so folks could stay in touch.  I think she was really just checking to see if I would be receptive to the call.

I hate this.  I want to refuse the job out of anger, but I can't.  My logical side of the brain says what if I don't get an offer where I am interviewing now, and what if I don't get any more interviews?  In the 3 weeks I've been unemployed I've only had interest from this one company.  I know that isn't very long and jobs are just starting to come back, but there are also a lot folks out of work I'm competing with.

It looks like my way forward is to take the job with my old company if offered, but continue interviewing and looking for something else.  I'll have absolutely no qualms about quitting if I get a better offer since they had no issue laying me off for purely financial reasons.

I guess it is a good thing I was cordial to the HR lady when they laid me off.  I wanted to be so rude to her, but held my tongue.

[Deleted]

So how did you feel about the company before they cut you off?  Were there other problems that made it hard for you to be civil to the HR lady or was it just anger/sadness at being let go?

If you do go back, see if you can negotiate "no break in service" for purposes of 401(k) match vesting, vacation and any other benefits that depend on time with the company.

[Deleted]

Advice from an old lady: It's a job, and if it's offered before another offer turns up, take it. When another offer that you want turns up, resign and take the better offer. We're years past company loyalty that (usually) worked both ways. 

[haapai]

I think that you should interview for your old job and take it if the compensation is better than unemployment. 

I would suggest preparing yourself for the real possibility that the job that you used to do will not pay you what they used to pay you.  Work through some nasty scenarios involving large pay cuts, changes of duties, and changes in who you might be reporting to before you talk to your old manager. 

Then take the job no matter how much worse of a job it is.  Be employed when the federal unemployment checks stop getting cut.  It is much easier to find a job when you are employed and few things are more painful and damaging than unemployment. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Why did you want to be rude to the HR lady?  The problems you had before will still be there today.    Be careful talking yourself into the idea that it is better than UE, do some serious soul searching first.

Should you decide to take it keep looking and have a deadline in your head of how long you're willing to put up with the current position.  You can always push it out but sometimes having an "out" can make a sucky situation more tolerable than feeling like you have no options.

There is always the chance you accept this and get the other offer before the start date.  It doesn't sound like you care much about bridges so there is no reason you can't take this and the moment a better offer shows up accept and resign.

[Gardening Grandma]

I'd try very hard to be objective and not make the decision emotionally.  

[bobosensei]

Jun 9, 2020 8:52:59 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

So how did you feel about the company before they cut you off?  Were there other problems that made it hard for you to be civil to the HR lady or was it just anger/sadness at being let go?

If you do go back, see if you can negotiate "no break in service" for purposes of 401(k) match vesting, vacation and any other benefits that depend on time with the company.

We were 4 years into a 5 year private equity firm "pump and ."  Needless to say I wasn't pleased with a lot of things and had been looking for other positions before covid 19 forced the work from home.  I stopped actively looking at that point because I perceived my position to be safe, and since I hadn't gotten any interest previously I assumed it would be worse during the pandemic.  So I was content to work from home, and planned to get some certifications to help with a job search during my down time.  My plan was to start looking again once unemployment numbers were lower and more positions were coming open.  Then I was laid off.  The good thing if I am offered the job would be that I could elect to work from home 100% of the time.  I should be able to get back my internet and cell phone reimbursement too.  Internet was capped at 50 bucks, but cell phone was up to 150 so I could go back to Verizon for an unlimited plan instead of my knock off xfinity service that uses wifi hotspots.

If they do ask me to come back I'll ask for a no break in service.  It would impact the number of weeks of PTO I get, and the severance amount should I be laid off again in the future.  I think I'd also ask to see if I could get the HSA match I lost for Q2 because they let me go the pay period before it would have been put in my account.  I'm thinking these positions must be coming available in the next fiscal year so would likely be a July start date.

[busymom]

From someone who survived the Reagan Recession, I would take the job.  It may not be what you want, but when times are tough, something is better than nothing.  Then, keep looking for better opportunities.  I survived 3 years in a job I absolutely hated (as did my coworkers). (It got so bad near the end, that we were going out for lunch to a local bar, complete with drinks, then eating breath mints before going back to work.  Don't miss that job, but it DID pay the bills.)

[stillmovingforward]

Listen to athena53. I don't know what kind of engineering you were in or how long you were at the last company but.... its great they laid you off for purely financial reasons. That means your work was great but they couldn't meet payroll. It happens in my industry (aerospace). I've worked for people I've trained, I've watched good people get let go, I've got let go. It's a painful but cyclical fact of my industry.
If you liked your old company before this, take a chance seneed go back. You can always continue to look for another place.

[bobosensei]

Jun 9, 2020 9:38:26 GMT -5 haapai said:

I think that you should interview for your old job and take it if the compensation is better than unemployment. 

I would suggest preparing yourself for the real possibility that the job that you used to do will not pay you what they used to pay you.  Work through some nasty scenarios involving large pay cuts, changes of duties, and changes in who you might be reporting to before you talk to your old manager. 

Then take the job no matter how much worse of a job it is.  Be employed when the federal unemployment checks stop getting cut.  It is much easier to find a job when you are employed and few things are more painful and damaging than unemployment. 

I was making 85k a year previously but in a different role, but when I last did the job they would hire me back to do I only made 72.5k.  They also changed the bonus structure which was 12.5% when I last qualified but isn't nearly that generous now (plus we'd been told back in march there wouldn't be merit increases or bonuses this year).  I would try to get hired back at 85k because I am more knowledgeable now and the line of business I am going to has a huge gap I can fill.  I don't know if they'd pay me that though, but it is what I'd ask for.  It isn't completely out of line, and knowing the manager they will hire someone and expect me to train them and make sure their work is decent so it is more than just doing my job.  That's a lot more than unemployment even with the 600.  My insurance costs will more than double from what I had with the company versus the marketplace.

[oped]

Jun 9, 2020 8:37:48 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

It looks like my way forward is to take the job with my old company if offered, but continue interviewing and looking for something else.  I'll have absolutely no qualms about quitting if I get a better offer since they had no issue laying me off for purely financial reasons.


Yes, probably this... sorry this is in the box... can't get out of it ... gah.

[bobosensei]

Jun 9, 2020 10:11:52 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Why did you want to be rude to the HR lady?  The problems you had before will still be there today.    Be careful talking yourself into the idea that it is better than UE, do some serious soul searching first.

Should you decide to take it keep looking and have a deadline in your head of how long you're willing to put up with the current position.  You can always push it out but sometimes having an "out" can make a sucky situation more tolerable than feeling like you have no options.

There is always the chance you accept this and get the other offer before the start date.  It doesn't sound like you care much about bridges so there is no reason you can't take this and the moment a better offer shows up accept and resign.

I had beef with the HR lady because the last time I changed positions she held things up 3 or 4 months for no reason, they denied the 10k pay increase my manager put me in for even though he had the money in the budget and I knew I was underpaid in the market, then she finally put the title change through and didn't bother to tell me.  I found out when I went to ask for time off and the approval went to someone different.  And she was rude to a bunch of people when she came to our office for a visit.

I don't really care about burning bridges now.  I've seen how they treat people when it suits them.

[jelloshots4all]

Jun 9, 2020 10:33:20 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

Jun 9, 2020 8:52:59 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

So how did you feel about the company before they cut you off?  Were there other problems that made it hard for you to be civil to the HR lady or was it just anger/sadness at being let go?

If you do go back, see if you can negotiate "no break in service" for purposes of 401(k) match vesting, vacation and any other benefits that depend on time with the company.

We were 4 years into a 5 year private equity firm "pump and ."  Needless to say I wasn't pleased with a lot of things and had been looking for other positions before covid 19 forced the work from home.  I stopped actively looking at that point because I perceived my position to be safe, and since I hadn't gotten any interest previously I assumed it would be worse during the pandemic.  So I was content to work from home, and planned to get some certifications to help with a job search during my down time.  My plan was to start looking again once unemployment numbers were lower and more positions were coming open.  Then I was laid off.  The good thing if I am offered the job would be that I could elect to work from home 100% of the time.  I should be able to get back my internet and cell phone reimbursement too.  Internet was capped at 50 bucks, but cell phone was up to 150 so I could go back to Verizon for an unlimited plan instead of my knock off xfinity service that uses wifi hotspots.

If they do ask me to come back I'll ask for a no break in service.  It would impact the number of weeks of PTO I get, and the severance amount should I be laid off again in the future.  I think I'd also ask to see if I could get the HSA match I lost for Q2 because they let me go the pay period before it would have been put in my account.  I'm thinking these positions must be coming available in the next fiscal year so would likely be a July start date.

I agree with others.  Take it if you are offered and keep looking.  The private equity aspect has me concerned.  I have worked for 2 companies owned by PE.  You never know when they will pull the trigger to and then your job could be gone again.

[Bonny]

Jun 9, 2020 10:45:39 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

I don't really care about burning bridges now.  I've seen how they treat people when it suits them.

Don't burn bridges. One of the reasons I got hired at my last job was due to: "The classiest exit I've ever seen" quoting a senior manager of the department.

Believe me I FELT like burning some bridges but I'm glad I didn't.

Good luck to you.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Was the funding they got a PPP loan that they have to spend on payroll by July 31st?

If so, is your old role one that will be needed after July 31st?

Even if it's not, if you'll make more than unemployment, take it.  For now.  What's that saying?  It's easier to get a new job when you have a job.  Not sure it's true in a pandemic, but it can't hurt to continue to prove yourself and to make contacts in your industry.

Good luck either way whether it's back to the old employer or onward and upward with the new one.

[movinonup]

Jun 9, 2020 10:43:21 GMT -5 oped said:

Jun 9, 2020 8:37:48 GMT -5 bobosensei said:

It looks like my way forward is to take the job with my old company if offered, but continue interviewing and looking for something else.  I'll have absolutely no qualms about quitting if I get a better offer since they had no issue laying me off for purely financial reasons.


Yes, probably this... sorry this is in the box... can't get out of it ... gah.

oped For future reference, if you are having problems getting text outside of the box, it may be easier to switch to the BBCode tab and move your text to after the last "[/quote]" tag.

bobosensei For what it's worth, I'm in the "It's easier to search for a new job when you have a job" camp.

-movinonup  

[TheHaitian]

Be smart... not spiteful! People that do things based on emotions while get a short satisfaction tends to regret it in the long run.

You need a job
They are offering you a job
Take the job
While you keep looking for another job
It is easier to get a job while you still have a job

Be smart, think long term, do what is in your best interest in the long run

[formerroomate99]

It’s a job. Take it, and keep looking for something better. Just don’t jump at the first place that’ll take you, and ignore the obvious red flags, just because you have these emotions towards that place. I made that mistake a few years ago, and it’s cost me and my family several years of turbulence.

Your ego and a sense of fairness don’t belong in the workplace. You need to think of yourself as a private contractor.

[tskeeter]

Jun 12, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

It’s a job. Take it, and keep looking for something better. Just don’t jump at the first place that’ll take you, and ignore the obvious red flags, just because you have these emotions towards that place. I made that mistake a few years ago, and it’s cost me and my family several years of turbulence.

Your ego and a sense of fairness don’t belong in the workplace. You need to think of yourself as a private contractor.

I think a sense of fairness, or element of fairness does belong in the workplace.  

A European born coworker of mine once talked about the American perspective that the only important stakeholder of a business is the stockholders.  (To me, this appears to be more true than not.).  By contrast, he contended that European businesses operate with three constituencies in mind.  First and foremost, the employees.  Second, the community.  Immediate community as well as the public interest.  Finally, the stockholders.

Maybe a more European business philosophy would encourage the high levels of employee engagement that the HR types spend so much time and energy talking about and conducting surveys about.  It’s kind of hard to be very engaged working for an employer who will kick you to the curb the second that a senior executive’s bonus is in danger.

[jerseygirl]

Jun 13, 2020 10:11:29 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 12, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

It’s a job. Take it, and keep looking for something better. Just don’t jump at the first place that’ll take you, and ignore the obvious red flags, just because you have these emotions towards that place. I made that mistake a few years ago, and it’s cost me and my family several years of turbulence.

Your ego and a sense of fairness don’t belong in the workplace. You need to think of yourself as a private contractor.

I think a sense of fairness, or element of fairness does belong in the workplace.  

A European born coworker of mine once talked about the American perspective that the only important stakeholder of a business is the stockholders.  (To me, this appears to be more true than not.).  By contrast, he contended that European businesses operate with three constituencies in mind.  First and foremost, the employees.  Second, the community.  Immediate community as well as the public interest.  Finally, the stockholders.

Maybe a more European business philosophy would encourage the high levels of employee engagement that the HR types spend so much time and energy talking about and conducting surveys about.  It’s kind of hard to be very engaged working for an employer who will kick you to the curb the second that a senior executive’s bonus is in danger.

Other side of Europeans and jobs is its extremely difficult to fire an incompetent or no longer productive employee.

[tskeeter]

Jun 13, 2020 16:08:50 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Jun 13, 2020 10:11:29 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

I think a sense of fairness, or element of fairness does belong in the workplace.  

A European born coworker of mine once talked about the American perspective that the only important stakeholder of a business is the stockholders.  (To me, this appears to be more true than not.).  By contrast, he contended that European businesses operate with three constituencies in mind.  First and foremost, the employees.  Second, the community.  Immediate community as well as the public interest.  Finally, the stockholders.

Maybe a more European business philosophy would encourage the high levels of employee engagement that the HR types spend so much time and energy talking about and conducting surveys about.  It’s kind of hard to be very engaged working for an employer who will kick you to the curb the second that a senior executive’s bonus is in danger.

Other side of Europeans and jobs is its extremely difficult to fire an incompetent or no longer productive employee.

I believe that you are correct.  I think there is some distinction between your point and mine, though.  What you describe is, I suspect, the result of government regulations.  What I had in mind was a business operation philosophy that places a higher value on the people who make up the organization than is exhibited by most large US businesses.

You appear to have some direct experience with European labor conditions.  Do you think that what I see as more labor friendly business philosophies in Europe are the result of government regulation?  Or are there other social factors that make European businesses more labor friendly?

[jerseygirl]

Jun 14, 2020 17:06:25 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 13, 2020 16:08:50 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Other side of Europeans and jobs is its extremely difficult to fire an incompetent or no longer productive employee.

I believe that you are correct.  I think there is some distinction between your point and mine, though.  What you describe is, I suspect, the result of government regulations.  What I had in mind was a business operation philosophy that places a higher value on the people who make up the organization than is exhibited by most large US businesses.

You appear to have some direct experience with European labor conditions.  Do you think that what I see as more labor friendly business philosophies in Europe are the result of government regulation?  Or are there other social factors that make European businesses more labor friendly?

Government regulations make firing a person extremely difficult. Government regulations also make working conditions pretty good. Was working with Dutch company and they weren’t supposed to use copiers after ‘quitting ‘ time so as to not work overtime- these were MDs and PhDs. Also a Dutch colleague told of one person in department that twice went out on about 6 months ‘disability’ primarily due to conflict with supervisor. Don’t think European companies are more labor friendly than US companies but government and union regulations drive many interactions.
I in US and a European colleague both ‘inherited’ people who had PhDs so smart but ineffective and lazy. Took me about 3 months to work with and document shortcomings even with intensive help and he was gone. European colleague could not even after more than a year of coaching so he just was transferred to another department. Seemed similar to trying to work with a strong union representation but it was government regs. As a result European companies are slow to hire cause its damn hard to remove people
I’ve never worked in a Union environment

[bobosensei]

Jun 14, 2020 18:22:37 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Jun 14, 2020 17:06:25 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

I believe that you are correct.  I think there is some distinction between your point and mine, though.  What you describe is, I suspect, the result of government regulations.  What I had in mind was a business operation philosophy that places a higher value on the people who make up the organization than is exhibited by most large US businesses.

You appear to have some direct experience with European labor conditions.  Do you think that what I see as more labor friendly business philosophies in Europe are the result of government regulation?  Or are there other social factors that make European businesses more labor friendly?

Government regulations make firing a person extremely difficult. Government regulations also make working conditions pretty good. Was working with Dutch company and they weren’t supposed to use copiers after ‘quitting ‘ time so as to not work overtime- these were MDs and PhDs. Also a Dutch colleague told of one person in department that twice went out on about 6 months ‘disability’ primarily due to conflict with supervisor. Don’t think European companies are more labor friendly than US companies but government and union regulations drive many interactions.
I in US and a European colleague both ‘inherited’ people who had PhDs so smart but ineffective and lazy. Took me about 3 months to work with and document shortcomings even with intensive help and he was gone. European colleague could not even after more than a year of coaching so he just was transferred to another department. Seemed similar to trying to work with a strong union representation but it was government regs. As a result European companies are slow to hire cause its damn hard to remove people
I’ve never worked in a Union environment

Almost everywhere I have worked there have been people that should have been fired but weren't.  In some cases I worked closely enough with management to know they tried to get rid of the person but HR or the executives seemed to either be afraid of a lawsuit or just not care.

I haven't gotten a clear answer from my former manager yet.  I did hear that one former co-worker quit, one went on a leave of absence, and I saw several more from different lines of service in places outside of the US posting on linked in today that they were laid off.  Also the guy who laid me off was also laid off.

So I'm just being patient and waiting to see if this means she can hire me back.  With so many more positions being cut they may have decided not to hire externally.  I almost can't imagine going back and trying to do the job with so many employees gone.  I always worked more than an 8 hour day, and the people I still talk to regularly are all miserable and looking for work elsewhere to escape so maybe this is a blessing for me.

I talked to two more recruiters today.  One pretty promising as she is internal to the company, and I know I have the skills for the job.  The other was unexpected, and the position is for a startup.  I didn't quite fit the description, but the recruiter is trying to get me an interview anyway since the company has been growing so fast.

[justme]

Jun 13, 2020 10:11:29 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 12, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

It’s a job. Take it, and keep looking for something better. Just don’t jump at the first place that’ll take you, and ignore the obvious red flags, just because you have these emotions towards that place. I made that mistake a few years ago, and it’s cost me and my family several years of turbulence.

Your ego and a sense of fairness don’t belong in the workplace. You need to think of yourself as a private contractor.

I think a sense of fairness, or element of fairness does belong in the workplace.  

A European born coworker of mine once talked about the American perspective that the only important stakeholder of a business is the stockholders.  (To me, this appears to be more true than not.).  By contrast, he contended that European businesses operate with three constituencies in mind.  First and foremost, the employees.  Second, the community.  Immediate community as well as the public interest.  Finally, the stockholders.

Maybe a more European business philosophy would encourage the high levels of employee engagement that the HR types spend so much time and energy talking about and conducting surveys about.  It’s kind of hard to be very engaged working for an employer who will kick you to the curb the second that a senior executive’s bonus is in danger.

My understanding is it's not philosophy, but that these countries add those tenants into articles of incorporation by law. Meaning they have to abide by those things in order to incorporate and I'm assuming there's some body of government similar to our SEC that ensures that.

In the US our laws regarding incorporation only impart a duty to shareholders and by golly do they live and die by that duty.

[bobosensei]

Talked to my former manager today.  She wants me for the job, but said HR is making her post the positions for internal hires first.  She isn't sure if there will be interest.  I can think of a few people that could do the job that hate something about what they are being made to do now.  So no idea if there will be anything here for me.  She thinks if no one applies in the first week she can get permission to hire externally, but another coworker I am close to said that doesn't always happen.

[formerroomate99]

Jun 13, 2020 10:11:29 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 12, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

It’s a job. Take it, and keep looking for something better. Just don’t jump at the first place that’ll take you, and ignore the obvious red flags, just because you have these emotions towards that place. I made that mistake a few years ago, and it’s cost me and my family several years of turbulence.

Your ego and a sense of fairness don’t belong in the workplace. You need to think of yourself as a private contractor.

I think a sense of fairness, or element of fairness does belong in the workplace.

You’re not wrong. But in order to survive, one has to deal with the world as it is, not as it should be.

[tskeeter]

Jun 16, 2020 15:17:05 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Jun 13, 2020 10:11:29 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

I think a sense of fairness, or element of fairness does belong in the workplace.

You’re not wrong. But in order to survive, one has to deal with the world as it is, not as it should be.

You are correct.  One does have to deal with the world we have.  But, if we accept the world as it is, how does anything ever change?  We need to deal with the world we have, and at the same time, work to make the world into what we want it to be.  Often, that means being the squeaky wheel, and working with others to help them see a vision of the future that makes challenging the status quo worth the risk.  Our lives will not improve unless we challenge the status quo.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2020 18:22:37 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Government regulations make firing a person extremely difficult. <snip> Seemed similar to trying to work with a strong union representation but it was government regs. As a result European companies are slow to hire cause it's damn hard to remove people

I worked for a company based in Switzerland with offices all over the world. We had a team member based in Germany who was pretty much ineffective and apathetic. Our London-based boss confided that in Germany you had to practically get someone's consent to have them made redundant. Eventually he loaned her to another department. My company was reluctant to add positions in Germany for that reason.

These laws also meant that ineffective people were left in place when they could have been replaced by people who wanted to do the work.

I do think that treating your employees well is the right thing to do and will have a positive effect on their relationships with customers- Costco is a shining example.

[bobosensei]

Talked to the former manager yesterday.  She said they paused the search to wait on the final budget approvals.  In years past this might be mid October, but she thinks it won't be nearly that long this year but still might take 5 or 6 weeks.  She did get some internal candidates, but said she feels she will need to post externally.  I'm not sure if she will be able to persuade HR to post it externally.  But I know if she can they will offer the job to me.  And at this point I'd probably take whatever they offered and just keep looking for a job that I want.

[bobosensei]

The job was finally posted for external applicants so I applied this morning.  I'm hoping to get another interview with the company I talked to yesterday though because the money with them will very likely be more and it matches my current career path.

I sent a message to the hiring manager that I applied because there were already 7 applicants, and I wanted to make sure that I didn't slip through the cracks.