Defunding/dismantling police departments

[billisonboard]

Jun 11, 2020 17:33:51 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

What’s going on in Seattle? Have family there and said 6 downtown blocks taken over without any police??

Very interesting social experiment happening there. Worth reading up on it.

[thyme4change]

Jun 11, 2020 15:51:32 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jun 8, 2020 7:32:12 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

They're not going to just flip a switch and shut off the police department.  It's more going to be switching over to a more community controlled/run force, rather than a government run one.  The MPD has a long history of corruption.  The chief is a good guy and is trying, but every effort he makes seems to get thwarted.  Officers he's tried to pull from the force keep getting reinstated...stuff like that.  Most of the people freaking out about this are not from Minneapolis.  

So they are going to have something that functions like a police department that they don’t call a police department?  Or are they going to have a whole bunch of social workers who will counsel offenders who deviate from our social standards by doing stuff such as robbing or assaulting others?

They will probably have a police department and call it a police department, but they wouldn't be responsible for all of the troubles in their area, only the ones they are well suited for.

Yes, there would be roving social workers, which is only different from patrolling police officers in mindset, skill set and preparation. When you first say it, it sounds weird, but when you say you will replace say half of police jobs with jobs requiring specific skills to do what is necessary, it starts to make sense. If police officers are actually good at that part of the job, they could apply to be in one of those positions. But if they are the kind of people who just want to be a strong authority figure because they have a gun and immunity, they will be phased out.

[Opti]

I think there many different opinions on this. I personally don't think a roving band of social workers is going to be helpful unless they are very well trained and go with the police to various situations. Some people you aren't going to be able to talk down whether they are on drugs or went off their meds. One of the latter got killed much like George Floyd except it was a knee in his back for a longer time. I think he was white. I doubt anyone marched on his behalf. More money for mental health really seems to be code for drug them all up instead of understanding drugs don't always work, they can stop working for a patient, and lastly can cause lifetime health problems which can not be corrected.


Sorry, thinking about that case and ones like it make me angry. Here's a nice cartoon, showing how different people might support this movement with various ideas of how it will work. Crap my insert isn't working. Here's the link.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-news-in-cartoons-updated-june-12/ss-AAJ7oYd?ocid=spartanntp#image=18

[billisonboard]

The ten countries with the highest incarceration rates are:

United States (737)
Russia (615)
Ukraine (350)
South Africa (334)
Poland (235)
Mexico (196)
Brazil (193)
Spain (144)
Kenya (130)
Netherlands (128)
link

[saveinla]

Something like this could work - www.gq.com/story/how-a-911-call-without-police-could-work

Minneapolis’ City Council, which has pledged to disband the city’s police force entirely, has indicated that it is looking to CAHOOTS, an Oregon-based program that sends a medic and a crisis worker (a mental health professional) as first responders to emergency calls. While CAHOOTS (which stands for Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Streets) is by no means a cure-all for systemic police brutality and racism, their model of crisis response offers a potential blueprint for how cities might rein in their police presence and replace it with services that actually protect and foster the well-being of their citizens.

[Artemis Windsong]

There will be no one to help a victim. All of us will be on our own against some extremely dangerous criminals. They are sitting back watching, waiting.

Send the people who want to defund the police to the sanctuary cities.

[thyme4change]

Jun 13, 2020 20:44:30 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

There will be no one to help a victim. All of us will be on our own against some extremely dangerous criminals. They are sitting back watching, waiting.

Send the people who want to defund the police to the sanctuary cities.

When seconds count, the police are just minutes away. I'm not sure how many crimes they stop now.

[thyme4change]

Jun 13, 2020 13:37:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think there many different opinions on this. I personally don't think a roving band of social workers is going to be helpful unless they are very well trained and go with the police to various situations. Some people you aren't going to be able to talk down whether they are on drugs or went off their meds. One of the latter got killed much like George Floyd except it was a knee in his back for a longer time. I think he was white. I doubt anyone marched on his behalf. More money for mental health really seems to be code for drug them all up instead of understanding drugs don't always work, they can stop working for a patient, and lastly can cause lifetime health problems which can not be corrected.


Sorry, thinking about that case and ones like it make me angry. Here's a nice cartoon, showing how different people might support this movement with various ideas of how it will work. Crap my insert isn't working. Here's the link.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-news-in-cartoons-updated-june-12/ss-AAJ7oYd?ocid=spartanntp#image=18

I think if you can catch the problem with social workers and social programs before the crime happens, you will accomplish something. But maybe the social workers can "patrol" homes that are at risk.

Getting people away from abusive spouse and helping them get on their feet would stop a lot of violence. How do you do that? Probably not by sending the police to the house after someone has been shot.

[Opti]

Jun 13, 2020 21:13:30 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 13, 2020 13:37:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think there many different opinions on this. I personally don't think a roving band of social workers is going to be helpful unless they are very well trained and go with the police to various situations. Some people you aren't going to be able to talk down whether they are on drugs or went off their meds. One of the latter got killed much like George Floyd except it was a knee in his back for a longer time. I think he was white. I doubt anyone marched on his behalf. More money for mental health really seems to be code for drug them all up instead of understanding drugs don't always work, they can stop working for a patient, and lastly can cause lifetime health problems which can not be corrected.


Sorry, thinking about that case and ones like it make me angry. Here's a nice cartoon, showing how different people might support this movement with various ideas of how it will work. Crap my insert isn't working. Here's the link.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-news-in-cartoons-updated-june-12/ss-AAJ7oYd?ocid=spartanntp#image=18

I think if you can catch the problem with social workers and social programs before the crime happens, you will accomplish something. But maybe the social workers can "patrol" homes that are at risk.

Getting people away from abusive spouse and helping them get on their feet would stop a lot of violence. How do you do that? Probably not by sending the police to the house after someone has been shot.

I hadn't thought about domestic violence. If the CAHOOTS approach would work better for the beginning situations, that would be a great thing. If they took on wellness checks that could cut down a few deaths as well. 

[laterbloomer]

From what I understand they aren't talking about getting rid of armed police officers. Just reducing them and having them focus on violent crimes, drugs, theft, that kind of stuff. It makes sense to me. Why do armed cops act as traffic cops? We are paying them way too much for that. They also shouldn't be expected to deal with the crisis created when all the mental health facilities got shut down and those people ended up out on the streets. It's not their expertise. The police deal with all kinds of things that don't require a gun. They shouldn't be. Give those jobs to social workers and by law officers etc and have the police focus on violent crimes, drug running, thefts, catching abusers etc.

[Deleted]

The drug cartel took over my previous neighborhood due to a lack of sufficient law enforcement. 

It's great to think everyone will magically behave themselves with fewer police, but there is a segment of the population who will always take advantage for their own gain.

Once they take hold, then they start doing other illegal activity because they go unchecked.

My previous 'hood started with weed and then once they armed themselves and knew they could keep the law out, they added opium production, money laundering, and now human trafficking/prostitution.

What happens when there is NO ONE to call for help? How much is your property worth then? 

I lived that. It sucks and may force you to move if you live in an affected area.

Willing to do that?

[oped]

Bullshit. Most white suburban neighborhoods have very low police numbers and violence. 

The drug issue needs needs to be solved by making it legal. And by treating addiction as a community and mental health issue and not with police force.

[oped]

You know how much violent crime and property crime is solved now... piddlingly little.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2020 10:33:55 GMT -5 oped said:

You know how much violent crime and property crime is solved now... piddlingly little.

That's the part that gets to me.  I have seen a few posts on Facebook the past few weeks like one where a woman was raped, another where a man was murdered, both saying something along the lines of "And you morons want to disband the police!"  Ummm....it might be a little more convincing if the post was "Officer stops woman from being raped or man from being murdered".  It already freaking happened, the cops didn't help at all and probably won't figure out who did it either.  It's such a false sense of security that people have with the police.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 13, 2020 13:37:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think there many different opinions on this. I personally don't think a roving band of social workers is going to be helpful unless they are very well trained and go with the police to various situations. Some people you aren't going to be able to talk down whether they are on drugs or went off their meds. One of the latter got killed much like George Floyd except it was a knee in his back for a longer time. I think he was white. I doubt anyone marched on his behalf. More money for mental health really seems to be code for drug them all up instead of understanding drugs don't always work, they can stop working for a patient, and lastly can cause lifetime health problems which can not be corrected.


Sorry, thinking about that case and ones like it make me angry. Here's a nice cartoon, showing how different people might support this movement with various ideas of how it will work. Crap my insert isn't working. Here's the link.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-news-in-cartoons-updated-june-12/ss-AAJ7oYd?ocid=spartanntp#image=18

In my experience, it could be VERY useful.

Several years ago, when I was still living in KY I called 911 on my neighbor.  She was elderly, and I had not seen her in days.  Her newspapers were piling up in front of her door.  I had a key to her apartment that she had given me, so after calling her on the phone multiple times and banging on both her door and window, I tried to get into her place.  The security bar was thrown, so I called building management and told them what was going on.  They came in with a hacksaw to try to break in as she was not answering the door when we called.  I called 911.  She was in there, just did not know if she was alive or not.

So what possible reason could there be for 4 cop cars of 2 in each, an EMS vehicle and a firetruck arriving?   This was a tremendous waste of resources.  We had broken into her apartment by the time the cops arrived, so the EMS were the first ones in.  She was sick, and got hauled away by the EMS.  As I had a key, I took care of her cat while she was away.  She was home several days later.  However, there was no need for so many people to be on call like this.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 14, 2020 10:59:04 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 14, 2020 10:33:55 GMT -5 oped said:

You know how much violent crime and property crime is solved now... piddlingly little.

That's the part that gets to me.  I have seen a few posts on Facebook the past few weeks like one where a woman was raped, another where a man was murdered, both saying something along the lines of "And you morons want to disband the police!"  Ummm....it might be a little more convincing if the post was "Officer stops woman from being raped or man from being murdered".  It already freaking happened, the cops didn't help at all and probably won't figure out who did it either.  It's such a false sense of security that people have with the police.  

I just got a call from my sister.  Apparently my youngest niece has gotten summoned into court because the cops did an illegal search of a friend's car and my niece's purse.  In her purse, they found an empty vaping cartridge that had traces of THC.  These were Minneapolis police.  This is going to get thrown out of court, but in the meantime it takes up police department resources and parental $$ for a lawyer.  This is currently happening NOW, with all the crap that is going on in Minneapolis.  The funny thing is, the person who cited my niece called her to try to get her to tell her what she knew about her friends - but she knew very little because she had not known them long.  Because she knew nothing that they could strong arm out of her, she now gets to deal with this mess.  

[justme]

Jun 14, 2020 10:59:04 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 14, 2020 10:33:55 GMT -5 oped said:

You know how much violent crime and property crime is solved now... piddlingly little.

That's the part that gets to me.  I have seen a few posts on Facebook the past few weeks like one where a woman was raped, another where a man was murdered, both saying something along the lines of "And you morons want to disband the police!"  Ummm....it might be a little more convincing if the post was "Officer stops woman from being raped or man from being murdered".  It already freaking happened, the cops didn't help at all and probably won't figure out who did it either.  It's such a false sense of security that people have with the police.  

Cops help get convictions in around 2% of rapes if I recall correctly, might be even less. I can't think of a woman I know that was raped or sexually assaulted that went to the police - WTF are they going to do? Slut shame you and then do diddley squat.

[laterbloomer]

Jun 14, 2020 10:59:04 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jun 14, 2020 10:33:55 GMT -5 oped said:

You know how much violent crime and property crime is solved now... piddlingly little.

That's the part that gets to me.  I have seen a few posts on Facebook the past few weeks like one where a woman was raped, another where a man was murdered, both saying something along the lines of "And you morons want to disband the police!"  Ummm....it might be a little more convincing if the post was "Officer stops woman from being raped or man from being murdered".  It already freaking happened, the cops didn't help at all and probably won't figure out who did it either.  It's such a false sense of security that people have with the police.  

The way I understand it the police would be focussing on solving crimes like this rather than directing traffic and rescuing cats from trees. It pisses me off no end that we can have someone rifling through the cars in my neighbourhood for months and not even have a cop come out to look into it but I go to Costco and 2 cruisers, meaning 4 cops, spend the day there directing traffic. I'd love to see a smaller police force that can actually focus on dealing with crime and not the other crap.

[thyme4change]

Jun 14, 2020 14:38:28 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jun 13, 2020 13:37:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

I think there many different opinions on this. I personally don't think a roving band of social workers is going to be helpful unless they are very well trained and go with the police to various situations. Some people you aren't going to be able to talk down whether they are on drugs or went off their meds. One of the latter got killed much like George Floyd except it was a knee in his back for a longer time. I think he was white. I doubt anyone marched on his behalf. More money for mental health really seems to be code for drug them all up instead of understanding drugs don't always work, they can stop working for a patient, and lastly can cause lifetime health problems which can not be corrected.


Sorry, thinking about that case and ones like it make me angry. Here's a nice cartoon, showing how different people might support this movement with various ideas of how it will work. Crap my insert isn't working. Here's the link.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-news-in-cartoons-updated-june-12/ss-AAJ7oYd?ocid=spartanntp#image=18

In my experience, it could be VERY useful.

Several years ago, when I was still living in KY I called 911 on my neighbor.  She was elderly, and I had not seen her in days.  Her newspapers were piling up in front of her door.  I had a key to her apartment that she had given me, so after calling her on the phone multiple times and banging on both her door and window, I tried to get into her place.  The security bar was thrown, so I called building management and told them what was going on.  They came in with a hacksaw to try to break in as she was not answering the door when we called.  I called 911.  She was in there, just did not know if she was alive or not.

So what possible reason could there be for 4 cop cars of 2 in each, an EMS vehicle and a firetruck arriving?   This was a tremendous waste of resources.  We had broken into her apartment by the time the cops arrived, so the EMS were the first ones in.  She was sick, and got hauled away by the EMS.  As I had a key, I took care of her cat while she was away.  She was home several days later.  However, there was no need for so many people to be on call like this.  

8 cops....with guns. Waste of tax dollars.

Come on you fiscally conservative republicans. It will cost less or the same, and if they are correct that it will improve the community, the tax base will increase.