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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 29, 2020 11:18:36 GMT -5
Age discrimination is almost impossible to prove. Any form of discrimination is difficult to prove. But if company lay offs disproportionately affected older workers they leave themselves open to that perception.I've gone through enough discrimination 'training' to know that companies want to avoid the threat of lawsuits whenever possible. I imagine that companies are even more vulnerable to people trying to sue right now because of the economic meltdown and warding off spurious lawsuits is hard enough without having to defend against a case with merit. That doesn’t matter. You need to have money to be able to sue and companies pockets are always deeper than individuals. During an economic meltdown, few are going to waste money on a case that they are more than likely going to lose and companies know this. I have already seen this up close and personal several times.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 29, 2020 11:48:18 GMT -5
Any form of discrimination is difficult to prove. But if company lay offs disproportionately affected older workers they leave themselves open to that perception.I've gone through enough discrimination 'training' to know that companies want to avoid the threat of lawsuits whenever possible. I imagine that companies are even more vulnerable to people trying to sue right now because of the economic meltdown and warding off spurious lawsuits is hard enough without having to defend against a case with merit. That doesn’t matter. You need to have money to be able to sue and companies pockets are always deeper than individuals. During an economic meltdown, few are going to waste money on a case that they are more than likely going to lose and companies know this. I have already seen this up close and personal several times. [ Most employment lawyers will take a case they think has merit on a contingency basis . No need for person to put up money. Attorney costs will come out if settlement.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 29, 2020 11:53:28 GMT -5
That doesn’t matter. You need to have money to be able to sue and companies pockets are always deeper than individuals. During an economic meltdown, few are going to waste money on a case that they are more than likely going to lose and companies know this. I have already seen this up close and personal several times. Most employment lawyers will take a case they think has merit on a contingency basis . No need for person to put up money. Attorney costs will come out if settlement. If the payout is worth their time. If you only have a few years left, they may not feel it is worth it even if you have a legitimate case.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on May 29, 2020 12:29:56 GMT -5
I believe companies will be using the COVID excuse for many things (reduced or frozen salaries, smaller 401k matches, higher prices on medical benefits) even if they are not truly feeling the business losses.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 29, 2020 12:30:58 GMT -5
That doesn’t matter. You need to have money to be able to sue and companies pockets are always deeper than individuals. During an economic meltdown, few are going to waste money on a case that they are more than likely going to lose and companies know this. I have already seen this up close and personal several times. [ Most employment lawyers will take a case they think has merit on a contingency basis . No need for person to put up money. Attorney costs will come out if settlement. Yeah.....right. You have experience with this? I do, my mom. A $50k/year job is not worth their effort. THIS happens with great regularity. If someone has a $150k/year job, they have far more resources to do this, and the case is worth their effort. But the vast majority of the cases are not here, so systemic age discrimination continues unchecked. Companies know this.
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apple 2
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Post by apple 2 on May 29, 2020 13:09:35 GMT -5
I am seeing the opposite at my workplace. We are planning to keep everyone telecommuting permanently and close some of our buildings to save on facilities expenses. More than one of my coworkers has stopped talking about retirement now that they can stay home and work without a commute. I agree, the work from home model got a huge boost. Its also better for the environment with less people on the road.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 29, 2020 13:16:53 GMT -5
My sister told me yesterday that her job has just extended their work from home until the end of the year. She said that the lease on the building is up at the same time, so she suspects that they're going to go to a mostly WFH model.
I think that WFH is a learned behavior and so much of this is going to be determined as to how long it takes the employees to learn this behavior.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 29, 2020 13:18:37 GMT -5
Well I'll be WFH for at least another month it looks like. We are still working under code red conditions. I am not sure how they will move us back to the office once that time comes. All I know is that it will be done in stages and I don't believe my department will be at the top of the list,- of course it makes it easier for everyone involved that I am a department of one, so it is not like they have to decide who has to be there on which days for coverage.
The good thing is that I have a hard office and, due to the nature of my work and the tendency of others to try to eavesdrop, my door is closed a lot of the time so I have a fairly safe set up.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 29, 2020 13:28:35 GMT -5
[ Most employment lawyers will take a case they think has merit on a contingency basis . No need for person to put up money. Attorney costs will come out if settlement. Yeah.....right. You have experience with this? I do, my mom. A $50k/year job is not worth their effort. THIS happens with great regularity. If someone has a $150k/year job, they have far more resources to do this, and the case is worth their effort. But the vast majority of the cases are not here, so systemic age discrimination continues unchecked. Companies know this. Yes actually I did sue and received a very nice settlement as did my attorney. I was making about $200,000 then. so you’re correct it was worth the effort for the attorney but I wouldn’t just rule it out. Especially if it’s a large company and can find a similar group. Myself and 2 similarly aged colleagues who headed therapeutic groups were passed over for s young guy with only failures with his projects but was the favored friend of European Clinical head. My colleagues just didn’t want to ‘risk’ but I was angry so went ahead. Company was sold anyway in 2 years
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 29, 2020 13:35:05 GMT -5
Yeah.....right. You have experience with this? I do, my mom. A $50k/year job is not worth their effort. THIS happens with great regularity. If someone has a $150k/year job, they have far more resources to do this, and the case is worth their effort. But the vast majority of the cases are not here, so systemic age discrimination continues unchecked. Companies know this. Yes actually I did sue and received a very nice settlement as did my attorney. I was making about $200,000 then. so you’re correct it was worth the effort for the attorney but I wouldn’t just rule it out. Especially if it’s a large company and can find a similar group. Myself and 2 similarly aged colleagues who headed therapeutic groups were passed over for s young guy with only failures with his projects but was the favored friend of European Clinical head. My colleagues just didn’t want to ‘risk’ but I was angry so went ahead. Company was sold anyway in 2 years And you had the resources to do so. Think about this for a minute......if they do it for you, making 4x what my mom made, what makes you think that they do not do it at a greater frequency for those who do not have your resources? Hell, even your colleagues didn't want to risk it! For my mom (and ironically, my best friend's mom), they could not find a lawyer to take it on a contingency basis because it was not worth their time. It all depends upon how much money you have, NOT that it does not happen. Consider yourself privileged that most others do not have.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 29, 2020 13:52:36 GMT -5
But it’s not the resources of the person that is needed just to clarify.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 29, 2020 13:56:23 GMT -5
But it’s not the resources of the person that is needed just to clarify. YOU had a job that was worth the lawyer taking the time to take your case on a contingency basis. THAT is a resource that you used. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say other than you do not recognize the privilege you had that most do not. A $200K job is worth a lawyer's time, a $50K job is not. Is that clear enough?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 29, 2020 13:56:32 GMT -5
No, it is the expected return from a successful result that determines if it is worthwhile. If it is a relatively low paying job, even a successful outcome may not lead to a significant award, so not worth their time. Same dynamics in medical malpractice. A demonstrated injury is not enough. Has to be the correct injury.
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cyanne
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Post by cyanne on May 29, 2020 13:57:35 GMT -5
They don't have to fire you. They can just make your work conditions or job so horrible that you will leave. This is what happened to my step-father. They transferred him to a new city and then gave him split shifts/swing shifts until he couldn't take it anymore. He was unable to work two days overnights and then three days day shift at the age of 62.
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obelisk
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Post by obelisk on May 29, 2020 15:07:49 GMT -5
Older workers in large corporations will be offered early retirement packages. These are the fortunate ones.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on May 29, 2020 15:09:25 GMT -5
Any form of discrimination is difficult to prove. But if company lay offs disproportionately affected older workers they leave themselves open to that perception.I've gone through enough discrimination 'training' to know that companies want to avoid the threat of lawsuits whenever possible. I imagine that companies are even more vulnerable to people trying to sue right now because of the economic meltdown and warding off spurious lawsuits is hard enough without having to defend against a case with merit. That doesn’t matter. You need to have money to be able to sue and companies pockets are always deeper than individuals. During an economic meltdown, few are going to waste money on a case that they are more than likely going to lose and companies know this. I have already seen this up close and personal several times. But the PP stated that she and her husband were highly compensated employees. They'll certainly have the money to hire a lawyer and, if they have a good case, the pay out could be significant.
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