Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 26, 2020 15:03:31 GMT -5
I get it that some people will be "retired" weather they want to or not.
What about the people who could "retire" but were working because they "liked to go to work"? What will it look like if enough of them realize they don't really have to go to work AND not going to work wasn't so bad?
I'm thinking about a couple of retirees I know who has the realization that they could have "retired" earlier. they only came to that realization when something life changing happened (a spouse died or a health issue happened) that forced them to look at their "retirement plans" and how it all worked.
I'm wondering if more people will drop out of the workforce willingly (aka 'retire' or achieve financial independence) because they've been "home and not working" for 10 weeks due to the Pandemic and maybe everything financial is OK? Is that enough time to get them to have reviewed their financial situation and decide that they maybe don't need to go back to the job they "like"?? I'm thinking the people in that 60 to 63 age range...
How will that change the job landscape if enough of them do it??
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 26, 2020 15:42:26 GMT -5
No mention of that at my work, which skews older. One lady who was proud to become a senior citizen late last year, was retired by the org in January. Others who have pensions coming started retiring before all this covid stuff popped up. Others that could retire already, aren't because of the cost of healthcare. It's an extremely red area, so they believe it's all overblown. No doubt more will retire of they personally get hit hard by the illness in some way. Otherwise, it's all about the money.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 26, 2020 15:43:49 GMT -5
What does senior citizen mean these days? 55 or 65?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 26, 2020 15:51:59 GMT -5
I’m 60 and still have a kiddo in college.
What is this retirement thing you speak of?
Ain’t no one retiring in this house anytime soon, pandemic or not.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 26, 2020 16:01:17 GMT -5
I think that unless there are special provisions in place via pensions and the ilk, most older workers will continue to work until at least 65. It all boils down to health insurance, and once you are over 55, the costs become exorbitant. If TD ultimately loses his job, we are looking at roughly $24k/year for the next 3 years until he is 65.
I suspect he is not the only one working for health insurance. He would be retired in a heartbeat, but for this.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 26, 2020 16:11:37 GMT -5
What does senior citizen mean these days? 55 or 65? In the case of this particular co-worker, it's 65.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 26, 2020 16:16:42 GMT -5
What does senior citizen mean these days? 55 or 65? In the case of this particular co-worker, it's 65. Some may not be able to retire at 65. My sister is so far behind the retirement 8 ball with regards that even with health care, I doubt she can afford to retire until 70.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 26, 2020 16:16:46 GMT -5
A former coworker, SA, always said she'd retire when the director M did. When M retired, and her Asst. Director R became the new director, M asked SA to stay on to help R thru the transition (I was brand new). A few years later, R passed away suddenly, and SA continued on to fill the gap until a new director S was hired and settled. A few more minor part time employees left (married, retired out of state, etc), and we were down to 4 (one very new very part-time). Then S left abruptly for greener pastures, and director G was hired quickly. Her first week, a freak windstorm dropped a tree on SA's house, injuring her and doing lots of damage. Initially SA said she'd be out 6 weeks for the concussion recovery, but quickly decided it was finally time to retire (to manage the extensive repairs to her house).
Suddenly I was the longest term employee, director had one week, other employee a few months. That's it, 3 staff total.
Fast forward to Covid-19, that other employee's DH wanted her to quit due to health concerns (mainly his health risks, but they are both early 60s). As we were closing to the public, semi WFH, director convinced her to not quit, treat it as a paid sabbatical for now. I know this employee and her DH are looking to retirement for both of them in the near future; he's a teacher, and needs to time it right to get a pension, because he's on the cusp of qualifying.
For that matter, DH and I are entering OMY stage. DH is ready to quit anytime, less tolerance for the nonsense. Before the market dropped I'd figured he could probably quit after another school year ended (so mid calendar year 2021), and I'd play it by ear - continue part time as long as it was fun, train a replacement.
So it's conceivable the director could soon be the only one left, if we both decided to bail after months at home testing out retirement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 16:27:42 GMT -5
Alabama has a 25-year retirement for teachers in Tier 1. Most wait until at least 62 because of SS and the cost of insurance. My friend retired last year at 61 and has to pay $500 for her and her husband plus the cost of his Medicare. So insurance is a real factor.
That said, every day I hear of someone else I worked with who has decided to retire. Teachers come in contact with a lot of kids, and social distancing is going to be a real problem. The virtual model has a lot of flaws. Whatever is prompting them, some of them have made the decision to go ahead and do it.
I say all the time that I am glad that I retired when I did, but that was because DH's health took a sudden turn for the worst. I didn't go back, though, even to substitute. And that's totally off the table now.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 26, 2020 16:33:02 GMT -5
In the case of this particular co-worker, it's 65. Some may not be able to retire at 65. My sister is so far behind the retirement 8 ball with regards that even with health care, I doubt she can afford to retire until 70. I don't think this lady could really afford to, either. The whole situation was kind of shady, which seems to be the norm at this place.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 26, 2020 17:33:04 GMT -5
I’m 60 and still have a kiddo in college. What is this retirement thing you speak of? Ain’t no one retiring in this house anytime soon, pandemic or not. You and I seem to be at the same stage of life. Almost 60, and one still in school. I doubt many will retire voluntarily. The number of people who have enough assets to retire is distressingly small. Add in healthcare costs, and it is impossible for even people with significant savings, and those with significant savings took a big hit with the stock market crash. Without a dramatic turnaround in the economy, I fear there will be many who will be in worse shape for retirement in a year. In addition, do you really believe that there will be any significant increases in SS and Medicare benefits when this is over, given the hole we blew in the deficits. Taxes need to go up, but is there any confidence republicans will agree, or will they go back to their old standby, we need to cut spending, including entitlements
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on May 26, 2020 18:42:58 GMT -5
Politician’s definition of a tax cut. We only raised taxes 5%, instead of the seven percent that our departments included in their budget proposals. This equals a 2% tax cut.
Tax cut, to a politician, or a government bureaucrat, is not a reduction in taxes levied compared to prior years.
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sesfw
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Today is the first day of the rest of my life
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Post by sesfw on May 26, 2020 21:28:04 GMT -5
I'm 78 and work part-time, on call for a small electronics firm here in town.
When this virus first started DH got real anxious so I took 3 weeks off work. I'm back to work now and I enjoy working. When I retired unwillingly in 2003 I lasted about 6 months before going out of my patience. I found an on call, part time job in another small electronics firm before we decided to move to AZ (out of ice and snow).
Before finding the job I have, I volunteered a lot at our community center ...... and still deliver meals on wheels once a month.
I need to stay busy. Hate wondering what to do next when there is nothing to do. Not the type to sit in rocking chair on porch waiting to die.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 26, 2020 21:46:57 GMT -5
My old azz isn't going back to my PT job because it's too many people to be around. Corporate told me that I have to either come back from furlough or quit. So I quit.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 27, 2020 12:07:26 GMT -5
When I got sick, I needed 7 years to retire with healthcare benefits from my employer. This would have put me at 58, TD at 59. At the time, my health insurance would have been covered as an employee, my spouse’s at 50%. Upon reaching Medicare age, both of us would be under a Medigap policy where they covered all but $26/pp/mo. This would have been a far cry from looking at the rates out there for our age group.
At the time, I knew it was a phenomenal policy and was part of the reason we were keeping the distance thing going so long.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 27, 2020 13:37:22 GMT -5
This old biddy could have joined the FIR community ( not FIRE since I missed the cut off for early retirement) a number of years ago. Since that time my credo has been I retire atx age 70 or whenever I feel like it. Covid19 has changed that picture. At this time I will not voluntarily retire and not because of the money as I am fine in that respect. But right now I need the structure this job provides to my life. After close to 11 weeks of SIP I wouldn't know what to do with myself without my work. You can only read so many books, watch so many movies, etc., etc., etc.
It helps that I really like what I do if things go.back to more or less normal before I reach 70 my retirement goal will become again what it was before all this. That may not happen though as there is less than 1.5 years left before I reach that age. What happens if it takes longer is anyones guess...
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tractor
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Post by tractor on May 27, 2020 14:30:38 GMT -5
I know of a couple who are not “old” (mid-50’s) but both qualified for full pensions so they are retiring on June 1st. They were working from home and decided that they really had no interest in returning to the office. Figured they better enjoy life while they still could.
There are several in my line of work (public/private electric utilities) who are past the minimum retirement age who will likely decide the new normal isn’t what they wanted and will just retire so the can stay home and fish, sleep in, garden, etc. People are realizing that there is some life other than working. We still have well funded, old fashioned pensions so that helps.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on May 27, 2020 14:33:40 GMT -5
I haven't seen it yet but suspect that a few of my older coworkers will retire this fall and winter. I work in a grocery store and mask use and social distancing are already pretty weak, including among management and workers. I suspect that a lot of folks in their sixties and seventies will find this situation intolerable, especially if we have a second wave.
Folks with vulnerable parents and household members will be particularly likely to take this option. They may not fear for their own health as much as they fear being the person who sickens someone that they love.
I'm not sure how many folks will be financially set to retire or even if they will run the numbers before they quit. There's quite a bit of anger and tension simmering. It really gnaws at your soul to perform services for folks who are being so thoughtless and selfish.
Thanksgiving may be the turning point. It's always hard to work like a dog so that others can have a nice holiday when you only get a few hours off. This year, it will be much worse because it isn't even about time off anymore. I just can't work in a grocery store and spend time around my parents in their late seventies.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on May 27, 2020 14:58:53 GMT -5
I am seeing the opposite at my workplace. We are planning to keep everyone telecommuting permanently and close some of our buildings to save on facilities expenses. More than one of my coworkers has stopped talking about retirement now that they can stay home and work without a commute.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 27, 2020 15:30:37 GMT -5
i'm hoping so, at least at my company. My AP clerk is 73 and was fine until we implement an accounting system this year. He just can't catch on to the system. Couple that with the fact that he doesn't really grasp excel. For 5 years his work was acceptable because the owners didn't know any better and they were using QuickBooks, which any monkey can use. Now that we have an actual system, he is struggling. Plus, he doesn't like change so he fights me every step of the way.
It's really sad but when you don't keep up with technology it is hard to stay employed. He is absolutely the nicest guy but he has got to go. He is working from home right now and it is causing major stress in my department. My other clerk just broke down in tears today because his absence is causing her about 6-8 extra hours each week as she has to scan him all invoices, stuff the envelopes, file, etc. It is no longer working so I have HR doing research on how far my accommodations have to go. When you have a job that is dependent on being in the office, you don't have a choice but to be here. His wife has lung issues so I get why he doesn't want to come in. I'm really hoping when I push him to come back next week, he just resigns...on the other hand, he has told me that he has no choice but to work.
If he comes back, I will be putting him on a PIP and most likely terminating him eventually. It would make my life so much easier if he resigned...I am fine with terminating people when they can't do their job. I would just prefer that he makes the decision...makes it easier on all of us!
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 27, 2020 17:00:46 GMT -5
DDIL is a teacher and has a baby due (her first) Oct 15. I’m pretty sure she will not be going back to teaching in Oct.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 17:26:23 GMT -5
One of my coworkers is planning to retire in the next couple of years. We were both quarantined due to working closely with another coworker that tested positive for COVID-19.
When we came back to work, he said those 2 weeks had him tempted to just go ahead and retire. 2 weeks of not having to go to work, without a decrease in income got him to thinking lol.
I’d retire tomorrow if I could, even without COVID-19. I didn’t quite understand the people that were bitching about being at home all the time.... not the ones that were able to work from home and still have income. I like being at home, and if I could work and make the same money without leaving my house...... sign me up! But I do understand that that may be me just being weird again, since I’m ok with not being around other people for a while.
But back to the OP, my coworkers and I are “essential” and don’t have jobs that can be done from home. So, barring when we’ve had to quarantine, we didn’t get a taste of what it would be like to be home every day. I don’t know of anyone that’s decided to go ahead and retire because of current events. Doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened (I work in a building with hundreds of other people), but because it’s the kind of job people work at for decades, then retire, and it’s rare for someone to just resign, word usually gets around when someone retires.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on May 27, 2020 19:39:48 GMT -5
Here is what I think the 'older' people should be worried about...they will be the first to be laid off when companies start to slash expenses. DH and I are 59 and 60 and highly paid, so betting we would be first to go. Companies are going to be struggling this year, and probably into next year. We have our ducks pretty much in a row, we would either take Cobra for 18 months, or hope the ACA hangs on for awhile. Other than health insurance issue, we would be OK.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on May 28, 2020 10:57:11 GMT -5
Here is what I think the 'older' people should be worried about...they will be the first to be laid off when companies start to slash expenses. DH and I are 59 and 60 and highly paid, so betting we would be first to go. Companies are going to be struggling this year, and probably into next year. We have our ducks pretty much in a row, we would either take Cobra for 18 months, or hope the ACA hangs on for awhile. Other than health insurance issue, we would be OK. Wouldn't that open them up to an age discrimination lawsuit?
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on May 28, 2020 11:04:17 GMT -5
I have been a volunteer at the VA Medical Center in Fayetteville, AR for 5 years. After receiving a survey from the VA Tuesday, I will not be returning to the VA in January. The volunteers I have talked to will also not be returning. It's too dangerous for us at ages 75+ to stay in that situation. I will certainly miss those days and the friends I have made, but I've made arrangements to have a new puppy living with me in a few weeks...and I can't wait.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on May 28, 2020 11:10:04 GMT -5
but I've made arrangements to have a new puppy living with me in a few weeks...and I can't wait. Love those butt wags ...................
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 28, 2020 13:18:29 GMT -5
Here is what I think the 'older' people should be worried about...they will be the first to be laid off when companies start to slash expenses. DH and I are 59 and 60 and highly paid, so betting we would be first to go. Companies are going to be struggling this year, and probably into next year. We have our ducks pretty much in a row, we would either take Cobra for 18 months, or hope the ACA hangs on for awhile. Other than health insurance issue, we would be OK. Wouldn't that open them up to an age discrimination lawsuit? Age discrimination is almost impossible to prove.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 28, 2020 13:41:01 GMT -5
Here is what I think the 'older' people should be worried about...they will be the first to be laid off when companies start to slash expenses. DH and I are 59 and 60 and highly paid, so betting we would be first to go. Companies are going to be struggling this year, and probably into next year. We have our ducks pretty much in a row, we would either take Cobra for 18 months, or hope the ACA hangs on for awhile. Other than health insurance issue, we would be OK. I'm a 'dinosaur' at work and I'm not particularly interested in learning new skills or keeping current on technology. This isn't a surprise to me... I've been working towards early retirement or Financial independence for a good 10 years now. I'm alittle worried that I won't have a job in 18 months (the end of a big project I'm working on) but I'm also ok with it. I should be fine financially. And staying with my employer another 12 to 18 months makes my pension at 65 bigger. I'm 56... the absolute best case scenario was that I maintain my high paid job until 59.5. If I could do that it would be a slam dunk to "early retirement". Leaving the high paid job anytime between now and 59.5 puts me in the financial independence zone - I'm gonna need a job - but it doesn't have to be high paid. And it still sets me up for "early retirement" maybe at 59.5 or a year or two after that. I'm standing on the cusp of change that I've planned for - big change and it's alittle scary. That's kind of what prompted this thread. I wondered if other people might be in good shape financially but didn't realize it until the upheaval of Covid19. And if they'd take a chance at FI or RE
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on May 29, 2020 8:34:04 GMT -5
Wouldn't that open them up to an age discrimination lawsuit? Age discrimination is almost impossible to prove. Any form of discrimination is difficult to prove. But if company lay offs disproportionately affected older workers they leave themselves open to that perception. I've gone through enough discrimination 'training' to know that companies want to avoid the threat of lawsuits whenever possible. I imagine that companies are even more vulnerable to people trying to sue right now because of the economic meltdown and warding off spurious lawsuits is hard enough without having to defend against a case with merit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2020 10:34:54 GMT -5
That's kind of what prompted this thread. I wondered if other people might be in good shape financially but didn't realize it until the upheaval of Covid19. And if they'd take a chance at FI or RE At 61 the politics got toxic at my company and I never did deal with politics well. I'd planned to work till 65 but I quit- last day was one week after I made the decision. Health insurance was an unhappy surprise- DH was Medicare-eligible but my ACA premiums doubled in the 4 years till I qualified- but it was a great decision and life is good. Not COVID-19 but similar.
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