flutterby
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Post by flutterby on May 25, 2020 21:16:33 GMT -5
Someone please explain to me what all the fuss is about. I live in Colorado. Every single registered voter automatically gets a mail in ballot each election. You can mail it in, drop it off at one of the many ballot dropboxes or voting locations, or just go vote in person. This has been the law here since 2013. We have one of the best systems in the nation. I have never heard of any protests concerning it here - it's just the norm and quite successful.
Why is Trump not attacking Colorado, a purple/but turning blue, state? And yet raging over other states trying to do it? And not just Trump, but so many Trump supporters? Possibly also Biden supporters and Independents are against vote by mail, but not that I'm aware of. Do they really believe, against all evidence to the contrary, that there's widespread fraud? Why does it seem to be Red states that are so against what is a safe secure way to vote? (Yeah, I already know the answer to that one)
Colorado is a leader in mail-in ballots
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oped
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Post by oped on May 25, 2020 21:20:57 GMT -5
The more people who vote... the more republicans lose.
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flutterby
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Post by flutterby on May 25, 2020 21:30:17 GMT -5
Well yes. Republican politicians know that, but does the average voter? Or do they just believe the fraud BS?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on May 25, 2020 22:09:39 GMT -5
Well yes. Republican politicians know that, but does the average voter? Or do they just believe the fraud BS? The cultist conspiracy theorists believe it because Trump feeds them. He even had his oh so very really hugely serious voter fraud commission headed by Kovach. (Sp) they quietly disbanded it when they found nothing. Now he’s at it again to get them all riled up. Plays those fools like a drum.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on May 25, 2020 22:17:16 GMT -5
We’ve been voting by mail in WA for years with no issues. The Repubicans are manufacturing an issue to try to keep voting as inconvient as possible because high turnouts do not help them.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 26, 2020 7:50:02 GMT -5
Well yes. Republican politicians know that, but does the average voter? Or do they just believe the fraud BS? The cultist conspiracy theorists believe it because Trump feeds them. He even had his oh so very really hugely serious voter fraud commission headed by Kovach. (Sp) they quietly disbanded it when they found nothing. Now he’s at it again to get them all riled up. Plays those fools like a drum. I think he also realizes there is a good chance he will lose the election and he's setting the stage to claim the states that he lost in had huge voter fraud, and then refuse to leave office. Because clearly he would win, all things being fair. For the five swing states Trump barely won in 2016, he's polling as a loser. One of them is Michigan. So if Trump can sow the seeds of voter fraud there, he will. thehill.com/homenews/campaign/499241-where-biden-trump-stand-in-key-swing-states
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 26, 2020 9:17:36 GMT -5
Such an amazingly weak piece of evidence.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on May 26, 2020 9:24:40 GMT -5
Such an amazingly weak piece of evidence. Well, that is pretty stupid. Husband, wife, voting age high schooler or college student all at the same address. Or three adult room mates at the same address.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 26, 2020 9:31:39 GMT -5
We would have 4. Roomates? Group home? Why the F does this person have these when they are not addressed to him/her?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 26, 2020 9:44:44 GMT -5
This is another of those "Democrats were against it before they were for it" type of deals. Democrats have been fighting for years against any sort of deviation from mass in-person voting. They only wanted mail in ballots for those that were home-bound/disabled. And forget any sort of action towards online voting! Yet now that the Coronavirus hit they want to make everyone think they are such champions of alternative voting...they're such douchebags.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 26, 2020 9:52:06 GMT -5
This is another of those "Democrats were against it before they were for it" type of deals. Democrats have been fighting for years against any sort of deviation from mass in-person voting. They only wanted mail in ballots for those that were home-bound/disabled. And forget any sort of action towards online voting! Yet now that the Coronavirus hit they want to make everyone think they are such champions of alternative voting...they're such douchebags. This isn't true.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 26, 2020 9:57:49 GMT -5
Bullshit. My sister is in Washington and we’ve commiserated for a decade on how hard other states make it to vote. It isn’t Dems that try to limit voting whenever possible. But republicans will lie... even when the truth is obvious.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 26, 2020 10:00:11 GMT -5
This is another of those "Democrats were against it before they were for it" type of deals. Democrats have been fighting for years against any sort of deviation from mass in-person voting. They only wanted mail in ballots for those that were home-bound/disabled. And forget any sort of action towards online voting! Yet now that the Coronavirus hit they want to make everyone think they are such champions of alternative voting...they're such douchebags. Who exactly is throwing daily temper tantrums today regarding the expansion of vote-by-mail? It ain't the Democrats.
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dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
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Post by dondub on May 26, 2020 10:31:04 GMT -5
Didn’t take long for the krapp to appear. Our blue state has voted by mail for years. One of our more popular Repo-Con pols, Slade Gorton, was famously opposed to the simple concept of motor-voter registration. Why would any real American oppose voter registration?
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on May 26, 2020 10:41:26 GMT -5
This is another of those "Democrats were against it before they were for it" type of deals. Democrats have been fighting for years against any sort of deviation from mass in-person voting. They only wanted mail in ballots for those that were home-bound/disabled. And forget any sort of action towards online voting! Yet now that the Coronavirus hit they want to make everyone think they are such champions of alternative voting...they're such douchebags. Even if that were true (and I don't know whether it is or isn't), times change and positions change. It's time for voting by mail.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 26, 2020 11:25:52 GMT -5
This is another of those "Democrats were against it before they were for it" type of deals. Democrats have been fighting for years against any sort of deviation from mass in-person voting. They only wanted mail in ballots for those that were home-bound/disabled. And forget any sort of action towards online voting! Yet now that the Coronavirus hit they want to make everyone think they are such champions of alternative voting...they're such douchebags. Let's not stoop to pointing fingers and calling each other names. There are legitimate reasons why we might want to be cautious. What gives me pause is the potential to make votes go poof. We need to figure out how to build the best system possible. On another voting issue we have discussed here a few times: I just read an analysis of the effects of Gerrymandering on bi-partisanship. We know that both parties are willing to use Gerrymandering if they think they can make it work in their favor. But when legislators think they don't have to compete for votes to win re-election, they are not willing to cross the lines and actually do what they were elected to do - legislate. So we get things like our current Senate - that refuses to do anything. It does not benefit Americans as a whole- just the special interests that can buy the Votes of our legislators.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 26, 2020 11:33:51 GMT -5
Such an amazingly weak piece of evidence. What bothers me about this it, I don't think if they got to the person they were addressed to they would present it as "Evidence" there was a problem, so either the prior tenant moved away and they were still delivered, or someone stole them? 'Cause that looks like someone's kitchen counter.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 26, 2020 11:59:35 GMT -5
... What gives me pause is the potential to make votes go poof. ... How, specifically, does a by mail system make it any more likely to have ballots not counted than any other system?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 26, 2020 12:01:37 GMT -5
OMG! We receive 2 ballots at this single address, one addressed to TD2K, one addressed to Penguin Mich. As I never changed my last name, there is nothing in our mailing that would demonstrate we are married.
I LOVE voting by mail. I vote on my time schedule, where I can research my choices in real time.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 26, 2020 12:46:03 GMT -5
... What gives me pause is the potential to make votes go poof. ... How, specifically, does a by mail system make it any more likely to have ballots not counted than any other system? I am not against mail in voting, I did use it in the last election. I was very paranoid that my vote would not be counted though - so I am just saying that we should discuss the potential issues, and come up with the best resolutions to ensure that votes get properly counted and move forward. We should not being fighting the rules of the process out as people are casting their ballots and changing the rules from day to day. There were a number of issues in WI in the days before/after the election. Mail in ballots went missing/were not delivered to intended recipients. People had to submit a photo of their ID - but there were issues with that - (I personally experienced this. I took the pictures of my ID, and then was not sure it worked. When I contacted the city clerk - she said she had not received. I thought the timing was too tight so I did not try to resubmit, but then I got my ballot in the mail. Now I read that if you were homebound during the last election and said you could not present an id due to being homebound, you would have still gotten your mail in ballot even if you did not present photo id. I don't think I was aware of that, although I followed the instructions in the local newspaper. Also, we had a ping pong match going between the Democratic Governor/Republican Legislature/Courts as to what the rules governing mail in ballots were with the rules changing every 5 minutes. The rules should not be changing after you put your ballot in the mail. They also should not be changing as the city clerks are mailing ballots out. First they said you had until the following Friday for you mailed ballot to get back, then the courts said it had to be postmarked by (I think ) the day after the election. That was controversial b/c our state law does not have a postmark requirement. I could have dropped my ballot at the city hall, but when I had dropped my taxes off in the drop box it did not feel right - It is a new building but to actually but something in the drop box you have to pull ahead of the box, get out of your car and open the box and put it in. It is just set up really weird/awkward if you drive a SUV. I was afraid if I left my ballot in the box, they would claim somehow that it was invalid, wrong box, wrong timing etc. My Mom's city had where you could drive your ballot to a location, and hand it to someone and they would witness it etc. That would be good too. I would think that they could claim the ballots were never received. They also can claim your ballot was not postmarked in a timely manner. There were issues in Wisconsin that the post office had not stamped a postmark on the ballots that were mailed back. I dropped my ballot off at the airport post office and handed it across the counter. The city had put a metered postage stamp on the return envelope, without a date. I told the mail person it needed a date stamp. She told me that b/c there was already postage on it, they would not stamp it at that location, but it would be stamped "downtown" when it was processed. I was very afraid my vote would not be counted, b/c I mailed my ballot the day before the election, was not sure if it was received by election day - but I checked the state web site, and it was counted. The Republicans in WI refuse to let city halls/clerks offices be open extended hours/weekends so max people can do in-person voting. This also would be desirable. Or we could make election day a holiday so every one can vote (Assuming no pandemic).
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jelloshots4all
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Post by jelloshots4all on May 26, 2020 12:47:04 GMT -5
OMG! We receive 2 ballots at this single address, one addressed to TD2K, one addressed to Penguin Mich. As I never changed my last name, there is nothing in our mailing that would demonstrate we are married. I LOVE voting by mail. I vote on my time schedule, where I can research my choices in real time.
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jelloshots4all
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Post by jelloshots4all on May 26, 2020 12:52:49 GMT -5
OMG! We receive 2 ballots at this single address, one addressed to TD2K, one addressed to Penguin Mich. As I never changed my last name, there is nothing in our mailing that would demonstrate we are married. I LOVE voting by mail. I vote on my time schedule, where I can research my choices in real time. Sorry my post didn't work. I absolutely support voting by mail. However, my biggest concern is that trump is decimating the Postal System which could negatively impact both parties. But after watching what happened in WI in April, we need other solutions
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 26, 2020 13:04:38 GMT -5
How, specifically, does a by mail system make it any more likely to have ballots not counted than any other system? I am not against mail in voting, I did use it in the last election. I was very paranoid that my vote would not be counted though - so I am just saying that we should discuss the potential issues, and come up with the best resolutions to ensure that votes get properly counted and move forward. We should not being fighting the rules of the process out as people are casting their ballots and changing the rules from day to day. There were a number of issues in WI in the days before/after the election. Mail in ballots went missing/were not delivered to intended recipients. People had to submit a photo of their ID - but there were issues with that - (I personally experienced this. I took the pictures of my ID, and then was not sure it worked. When I contacted the city clerk - she said she had not received. I thought the timing was too tight so I did not try to resubmit, but then I got my ballot in the mail. Now I read that if you were homebound during the last election and said you could not present an id due to being homebound, you would have still gotten your mail in ballot even if you did not present photo id. I don't think I was aware of that, although I followed the instructions in the local newspaper. Also, we had a ping pong match going between the Democratic Governor/Republican Legislature/Courts as to what the rules governing mail in ballots were with the rules changing every 5 minutes. The rules should not be changing after you put your ballot in the mail. They also should not be changing as the city clerks are mailing ballots out. First they said you had until the following Friday for you mailed ballot to get back, then the courts said it had to be postmarked by (I think ) the day after the election. That was controversial b/c our state law does not have a postmark requirement. I could have dropped my ballot at the city hall, but when I had dropped my taxes off in the drop box it did not feel right - It is a new building but to actually but something in the drop box you have to pull ahead of the box, get out of your car and open the box and put it in. It is just set up really weird/awkward if you drive a SUV. I was afraid if I left my ballot in the box, they would claim somehow that it was invalid, wrong box, wrong timing etc. My Mom's city had where you could drive your ballot to a location, and hand it to someone and they would witness it etc. That would be good too. I would think that they could claim the ballots were never received. They also can claim your ballot was not postmarked in a timely manner. There were issues in Wisconsin that the post office had not stamped a postmark on the ballots that were mailed back. I dropped my ballot off at the airport post office and handed it across the counter. The city had put a metered postage stamp on the return envelope, without a date. I told the mail person it needed a date stamp. She told me that b/c there was already postage on it, they would not stamp it at that location, but it would be stamped "downtown" when it was processed. I was very afraid my vote would not be counted, b/c I mailed my ballot the day before the election, was not sure if it was received by election day - but I checked the state web site, and it was counted. The Republicans in WI refuse to let city halls/clerks offices be open extended hours/weekends so max people can do in-person voting. This also would be desirable. Or we could make election day a holiday so every one can vote (Assuming no pandemic). Fully agree good procedures need to be in place well ahead of the election. On the topic of an all mail in ballot election: How, specifically, does a by mail system make it any more likely to have ballots not counted than any other system?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 26, 2020 13:08:49 GMT -5
Sorry my post didn't work. I absolutely support voting by mail. However, my biggest concern is that trump is decimating the Postal System which could negatively impact both parties. But after watching what happened in WI in April, we need other solutions We have several secure ballot boxes you can drive by and drop your ballot into. They can be mailed too, but for us it is just as easy to drop them off at the ballot box. It’s almost across the street from the PO!
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flutterby
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Post by flutterby on May 26, 2020 13:56:34 GMT -5
We can track our ballots. I know exactly where it is in the process at all times.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 26, 2020 14:18:04 GMT -5
Sorry my post didn't work. I absolutely support voting by mail. However, my biggest concern is that trump is decimating the Postal System which could negatively impact both parties. But after watching what happened in WI in April, we need other solutions We have several secure ballot boxes you can drive by and drop your ballot into. They can be mailed too, but for us it is just as easy to drop them off at the ballot box. It’s almost across the street from the PO! Mine is right in front of the library.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 26, 2020 14:56:33 GMT -5
I am not against mail in voting, I did use it in the last election. I was very paranoid that my vote would not be counted though - so I am just saying that we should discuss the potential issues, and come up with the best resolutions to ensure that votes get properly counted and move forward. We should not being fighting the rules of the process out as people are casting their ballots and changing the rules from day to day. There were a number of issues in WI in the days before/after the election. Mail in ballots went missing/were not delivered to intended recipients. People had to submit a photo of their ID - but there were issues with that - (I personally experienced this. I took the pictures of my ID, and then was not sure it worked. When I contacted the city clerk - she said she had not received. I thought the timing was too tight so I did not try to resubmit, but then I got my ballot in the mail. Now I read that if you were homebound during the last election and said you could not present an id due to being homebound, you would have still gotten your mail in ballot even if you did not present photo id. I don't think I was aware of that, although I followed the instructions in the local newspaper. Also, we had a ping pong match going between the Democratic Governor/Republican Legislature/Courts as to what the rules governing mail in ballots were with the rules changing every 5 minutes. The rules should not be changing after you put your ballot in the mail. They also should not be changing as the city clerks are mailing ballots out. First they said you had until the following Friday for you mailed ballot to get back, then the courts said it had to be postmarked by (I think ) the day after the election. That was controversial b/c our state law does not have a postmark requirement. I could have dropped my ballot at the city hall, but when I had dropped my taxes off in the drop box it did not feel right - It is a new building but to actually but something in the drop box you have to pull ahead of the box, get out of your car and open the box and put it in. It is just set up really weird/awkward if you drive a SUV. I was afraid if I left my ballot in the box, they would claim somehow that it was invalid, wrong box, wrong timing etc. My Mom's city had where you could drive your ballot to a location, and hand it to someone and they would witness it etc. That would be good too. I would think that they could claim the ballots were never received. They also can claim your ballot was not postmarked in a timely manner. There were issues in Wisconsin that the post office had not stamped a postmark on the ballots that were mailed back. I dropped my ballot off at the airport post office and handed it across the counter. The city had put a metered postage stamp on the return envelope, without a date. I told the mail person it needed a date stamp. She told me that b/c there was already postage on it, they would not stamp it at that location, but it would be stamped "downtown" when it was processed. I was very afraid my vote would not be counted, b/c I mailed my ballot the day before the election, was not sure if it was received by election day - but I checked the state web site, and it was counted. The Republicans in WI refuse to let city halls/clerks offices be open extended hours/weekends so max people can do in-person voting. This also would be desirable. Or we could make election day a holiday so every one can vote (Assuming no pandemic). Fully agree good procedures need to be in place well ahead of the election. On the topic of an all mail in ballot election: How, specifically, does a by mail system make it any more likely to have ballots not counted than any other system? Well, when I vote in person, I put the ballot into the machine and can see it is tallied. There is no way for me to verify if it is counted the way I voted though. But, when you mail your ballot back, there are a lot of ways it could go missing along the way. If your postal worker just misplaces it for a day or two, it could be "late" so it would not count.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 26, 2020 15:40:54 GMT -5
Fully agree good procedures need to be in place well ahead of the election. On the topic of an all mail in ballot election: How, specifically, does a by mail system make it any more likely to have ballots not counted than any other system? Well, when I vote in person, I put the ballot into the machine and can see it is tallied. There is no way for me to verify if it is counted the way I voted though. But, when you mail your ballot back, there are a lot of ways it could go missing along the way. If your postal worker just misplaces it for a day or two, it could be "late" so it would not count. Making sure I understand there is a machine in the voting booth that gives you an indication that your vote has been "tallied" and that gives you confidence that your vote ends up in the totals for the election. Further you acknowledge that there is the possibility that your vote could go to a person for whom you did not vote. I assume that this could be done by error or intent. So, with the machine it is possible for someone to use the fact you voted as a way to boost the vote total for one candidate and decrease it for your preferred choice. This two vote swing would be done with no change in the total votes that were cast meaning no indication there was vote tampering. Consider that with a mail in ballot, the worst that could happen is a single loss of vote for your preferred candidates either through fault or fraud. And if through fraud, it very difficult if not impossible for only the ballots with votes for any particular candidate to be targeted for non-delivery.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 26, 2020 16:35:38 GMT -5
I don’t get it. I live in one of the reddest states in the union and we automatically got mail in ballots from the first time we moved in here. And I was here for four years before I bothered to get an in-state drivers license. Come to think of it, I’m not sure how they tracked us down.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 26, 2020 16:41:07 GMT -5
There's tracking of your mail in ballot. I forget the exact different steps tracked but it definitely includes mailing you the ballot and it being accepted by them. I think there was even a step in there where it was received but not accepted (ie making sure your signature matches well enough and other stuff).
My state doesn't including postage so I just dropped it off at a drop off place. In fact I think one of the times I did it was on election day lol
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