souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 23, 2020 18:40:46 GMT -5
I think there will be major shakeout s in the travel industry. Likely fewer airlines. Cruises may become less popular. Suspect tighter border controls will reappear. Places dependent on tourism may be hurt. Travel may be more like 50 years ago, where people stayed closer to home, instead of traveling cross-country and internationally Long term you may be right but I think a lot of cruise regulars who tend to be older aren't going to be deterred. We've been on two big cruises in Europe and being in our 30's we were definitely bringing the average age down. I know cruises aren't for everyone but they're a great way to see multiple countries or cities without having to plan or really do much work like dragging suitcases with you while you go from one destination to the next and that is appealing to a lot of people. We will definitely do cruises in the future but I'm not in a hurry because even with things opening up I don't want to run the risk of being on a cruise that gets quarantined or turned away from ports because people on board have tested positive.
I work for a small company and our 2020 projected travel expenses are down 75%. Eventually things will open up and in our line of business and others face to face meetings aren't going to disappear but I think a lot of business travel which all along could have been accomplished with a phone call or zoom type meeting will be reduced. I've been sent on too many trips for work that didn't seem like the best use of resources but there's a perception about being seen and it wasn't my money. I like piggy backing off of work trips to see the area or use it as a jumping off point and realize it's not something everyone gets to do but at the same time I won't miss having to travel cross country just to make an appearance that I've made multiple times already.
I see us doing more travel where we drive to our destination. We already do family camping trips and had one planned before the lock downs went into effect while it's been pushed back to later this year. Some day I'd love to get a motor home or trailer to use to go camping but we need a house first to have somewhere to park it. I can definitely see us owning one in retirement and going all over the country some day but that's 20-25 years off.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 23, 2020 18:45:34 GMT -5
I won't say never, but I just don't see me going to the movies. Even if the seating is every other seat blocked off, the chairs are all made of cloth.If movie theaters want to stay in business ,they will have to take every other chair out and make the remaining chairs a nice soft, pliable plastic that can be wiped down. Theaters can use the UV zapper gizmo. It will be a while before I am comfortable. I have a medical appt. the end of this week. Scared.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 19:10:07 GMT -5
I think we are going to be fatter... Even with effort to the contrary, it's hard to not snack or enjoy baking when home 24/7. It's interesting- I see mixed answers on this on other boards. I've had to fight weight gain because I'm on the couch, at the computer or reading instead of out running errands. My flour supply is intact- baked goods are the last thing I need. Others have said that since they're not going out to eat, grabbing snacks in the office break room and picking up food to eat on the run, they're losing weight. I wish. I'd like to see the return of drive-in theatres!
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oped
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Post by oped on May 23, 2020 19:20:37 GMT -5
We have several drive ins. The one we usually go to opened for weekends two weeks ago but we haven’t gone yet.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 23, 2020 20:30:40 GMT -5
I actually think only a few minor things will permanently change. Like jelloshots said, I don't know that we will ever shake hands again. I'm not sure movie theaters will survive this...they were already on the downward slope anyway. This could do them in for good.
I believe large group activities will continue as soon as possible. There is way too much money at stake for them not to. My city has lost millions of dollars already on cancelled events. If large groups are canceled for the rest of the year it will end up being billions of lost revenue. Many of these events are mainly attended by young people. They will continue to go if possible. It may take 1-2 years to get back to full attendance but I think it will happen.
Sports, concerts, live theater, etc. will continue. Seeing things on TV is not the same...people want to see this stuff live. Not enough people are going to be willing to pay premium prices to watch something on TV. Universities make way too much money off of sports and it is all part of the college experience. I don't see that changing...
Travel will take a big hit for a while and then people will get back to going and doing. I'm really not sure about cruises...they are such an easy way for the older crowd to travel. I feel like they will come back at some point.
In general, people have short memories and are already chomping at the bit to get back to things...my friend that works in the travel industry said there has already been an uptick of people booking future travel. I think many are hoping for a vaccine by early next year.
I agree with MPL, not much will change except what businesses actually survive.
On a side note, I am so freaking sick of zoom Meetings. I'm hearing the same from most everyone else. They are fine for some things but not for all business. It could just be my industry, but we are so over them at this point...
ETA: I do think this will expedite the law in regards to Telehealth. Telehealth was already on the rise and this helped push it. I think we will see a lot of future legislation making Telehealth more readily available.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 23, 2020 20:36:06 GMT -5
I think this will accelerate the demise of cash.
It may be another step to the end of Catholic churches in my area. The diocese merged lots of parishes a dozen years ago. Then the sex abuse scandal got the bishop removed, and the bishop of Albany is in charge here for now. He's talking about more mergers.
My parish got merged with 2 others in the adjoining county. When our priest left to take over a different merged multi-parish (their priest retired), we had no priest, so eventually the priest of the merged parish north of us was made pastor of both parishes simultaneously (that's currently 4 churches in 2 different counties and 4 towns; several churches had been decommissioned). Just before the Pause order, I'd learned he'd shut off our parish's website, because of finances. So there's zero online presence for our churches. Being closed has likely decimated the already stretched financial situation. Even if the diocese did merge us all, again, and kept only one worship site open, most of us won't bother driving out to a distant church anymore unless it's our church, our community. So they'll all dwindle down rapidly.
I'm hoping that rural broadband initiatives will get a kick start, for online schooling. They need the push to extend internet service to everyone out here. As a short term fix, a nearby CSD has placed vans with WiFi service in a few community parking lots.
Mandated paid sick leave for all employees is something I hope gets extended permanently. Maybe state by state. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's mind boggling that NY mandated Paid Family Leave a few years ago, but not sick leave for all workers.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 23, 2020 21:12:41 GMT -5
The comments about the divide between haves and have-nots growing has my brain going in a slightly different tack.
I think this experience will spur some to embrace self-sufficiency, DIY, trying new things, thinking outside the box. This will contrast with those waiting for the government/experts to figure things out, fix things, tell us what to do.
Look at all the ways people chose to step up and find or make or donate PPE when it was in short supply for medical workers and first responders. The entrepreneurs who figured out how to shift their businesses to accommodate the Pause orders. The state governments that filled the void in federal government leadership, and developed plans for testing, joined together with other states for purchasing needed supplies and planning cooperatively.
Many may want to return to "normal" ASAP, but I think many may be emboldened by the widespread changes sweeping out the idea "but we've always done it this way" = the best/only way to do something. Once everything is up for reexamination, it's easier to imagine changes we want to see, or to ask "why can't we..."
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 23, 2020 21:52:04 GMT -5
I worry that this intense and prolonged use of hand sanitizer and disinfectants is going to give bacteria (setting aside viruses for the moment) even more ammunition against antibiotics. Are we setting ourselves up to be doubly vulnerable?
I spent the last 20 years raising kids ($$$$). They are almost flown. Our plan was to get some big trips in after we finished paying for college and before we got too old to go. I fear we won’t be able to travel as planned now.
I haven’t been in a grocery store since the middle of March, both for my own protection and to keep my cooties away from front-line essential workers. I’m still not ready to go grocery shopping. Will I ever be?
This sounds almost ridiculous, but I genuinely worry that my dog is going to lose his social skills since he can’t play or walk with other dogs. And then there’s a billion humans who are also going to lose social skills.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 23, 2020 21:56:08 GMT -5
Also, how does one date now? Are face masks the new disease-preventing condoms? Do you both have to get tested before you get to see each other without masks? Or kiss on the lips?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 23, 2020 21:56:26 GMT -5
I worry that this intense and prolonged use of hand sanitizer and disinfectants is going to give bacteria (setting aside viruses for the moment) even more ammunition against antibiotics. Are we setting ourselves up to be doubly vulnerable? I spent the last 20 years raising kids ($$$$). They are almost flown. Our plan was to get some big trips in after we finished paying for college and before we got too old to go. I fear we won’t be able to travel as planned now. I haven’t been in a grocery store since the middle of March, both for my own protection and to keep my cooties away from front-line essential workers. I’m still not ready to go grocery shopping. Will I ever be? This sounds almost ridiculous, but I genuinely worry that my dog is going to lose his social skills since he can’t play or walk with other dogs. And then there’s a billion humans who are also going to lose social skills. No need to worry about antibiotic resistance. Alcohol based hand sanitizers work in a completely different way. We are exactly like you. Third kid almost done with college and we were planning to enjoy ourselves finally. That is clearly on hold now
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 23, 2020 23:08:41 GMT -5
As far as cash going away, I have several regular spots that have Apps or just online ordering, and I love ordering ahead, using a credit card on file, and then going over and picking it up. So much more efficient for the place - their labor just has to make my sandwich or my smoothie or whatever, and not mess around taking my money. Easier for me, no lines- easy peasy. This may make that process even more the norm.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 24, 2020 7:03:03 GMT -5
As far as cash going away, I have several regular spots that have Apps or just online ordering, and I love ordering ahead, using a credit card on file, and then going over and picking it up. So much more efficient for the place - their labor just has to make my sandwich or my smoothie or whatever, and not mess around taking my money. Easier for me, no lines- easy peasy. This may make that process even more the norm. Definitely. I was surprised when we finally received a bill for medical services, and there was no option on the paper bill to pay online. We had to call, leave a message, wait a few days for a callback, before we could give a CC number to pay it. There was no way I was snail mailing a check to an office that was likely closed at the height of the pandemic. At that point I had no idea how long the shutdown might drag on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 7:06:52 GMT -5
As far as cash going away, I have several regular spots that have Apps or just online ordering, and I love ordering ahead, using a credit card on file, and then going over and picking it up. So much more efficient for the place - their labor just has to make my sandwich or my smoothie or whatever, and not mess around taking my money. Easier for me, no lines- easy peasy. This may make that process even more the norm. I think I'll do more of that as well- not food but Lowes/Home Depot purchases. I used to like browsing when I was there- interesting tools, gadgets, occasionally buying plants. I've had to make my 4th purchase in a little over a week- just keep changing what I want to do with the backsplash borders and realizing I need something new. Yesterday I picked up an order in-store, so interacted with only one person at the front desk, but then needed spackle and I had to go through 3 aisles to find it. Now I need wall-mounting tile mortar. I ordered it on-line and it will take 3-7 business days but I'm in no rush. I'm not sure when I'll ever return to restaurants. Dine-in has too many "touchpoints" and takeout from mid-level places not worth all the styrofoam packaging, taking it home, plating, reheating, etc. I don't do fast food.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2020 7:22:33 GMT -5
The last in person doctor appointment I had in mid March didn't take a copay. I was mailed a bill instead.
I do like that it has made to go orders from restaurants easier. I love being able to order online or from an app and just pick up.
A lot of places have asked for cards to eliminate handling cash. I've only seen two places saying they preferred cash.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 7:59:22 GMT -5
I'm going to have to obtain a smart phone. learn how to use it, and pay more for basic communication services as a result. Sadly, the odds are good that this phone will contain a tracking app that may not get disabled after COVID-19 is no longer a threat. I highly recommend Ting cellular service. My bill is usually about $16/month. That's if I keep data usage under 100 mb which I can do by using Wi-Fi where it's available, including at home. Can't help you on the phone itself- I have one of the high-priced brands, but Ting has an assortment for sale on its site. This WILL widen the gulf between the tech-friendly and those who aren't. My dear mother was an intelligent woman but just could not get comfortable with computers. I was concerned about what would happen if Dad died first since he was pretty good with tech, but we lost Mom in 2016. I really hope you're wrong about the tracking app but I wouldn't be surprised. I enable Location Settings only when needed (e.g. for navigation) but I know that your location can be determined anyway because your phone keeps pinging cell phone towers. You can put it on Airplane Mode and it wouldn't be able to do that, either. In the area of Des Moines where my son lives there's a grocery store near the Planet Fitness I used that accepted cans and bottles and returned the deposits. It was always doing a brisk business and they had a sign limiting how many you could redeem in one day- might have been 100. Yes, I think that will pick up again.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 24, 2020 8:11:01 GMT -5
I'm going to have to obtain a smart phone. learn how to use it, and pay more for basic communication services as a result. Sadly, the odds are good that this phone will contain a tracking app that may not get disabled after COVID-19 is no longer a threat. I highly recommend Ting cellular service. My bill is usually about $16/month. That's if I keep data usage under 100 mb which I can do by using Wi-Fi where it's available, including at home. Can't help you on the phone itself- I have one of the high-priced brands, but Ting has an assortment for sale on its site. This WILL widen the gulf between the tech-friendly and those who aren't. My dear mother was an intelligent woman but just could not get comfortable with computers. I was concerned about what would happen if Dad died first since he was pretty good with tech, but we lost Mom in 2016. I really hope you're wrong about the tracking app but I wouldn't be surprised. I enable Location Settings only when needed (e.g. for navigation) but I know that your location can be determined anyway because your phone keeps pinging cell phone towers. You can put it on Airplane Mode and it wouldn't be able to do that, either. In the area of Des Moines where my son lives there's a grocery store near the Planet Fitness I used that accepted cans and bottles and returned the deposits. It was always doing a brisk business and they had a sign limiting how many you could redeem in one day- might have been 100. Yes, I think that will pick up again. I've heard of Ting, and I think it's a good option if your usage lines up well with their offerings. Here's another option: www.hsn.com/products/samsung-galaxy-a10e-583-32gb-tracfone-w1500-minutestext/9541031I've always gotten these package deals with a year of service and minutes/texts/data from either QVC or HSN. I find them to be an excellent value for me (who rarely actually talks on the phone). Out of 5 or 6 purchases, I've gotten one dud when I ignored the reviews. ETA: I think this is the phone I currently have, and it's only $70 for both the phone and the year of service with all the minutes. That's cheaper than just buying the service minutes, etc. www.hsn.com/products/motorola-moto-e5-57-16gb-tracfone-w8mp-camera-and-1500-/8879320
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 24, 2020 8:11:44 GMT -5
I worry that this intense and prolonged use of hand sanitizer and disinfectants is going to give bacteria (setting aside viruses for the moment) even more ammunition against antibiotics. Are we setting ourselves up to be doubly vulnerable? I spent the last 20 years raising kids ($$$$). They are almost flown. Our plan was to get some big trips in after we finished paying for college and before we got too old to go. I fear we won’t be able to travel as planned now. I haven’t been in a grocery store since the middle of March, both for my own protection and to keep my cooties away from front-line essential workers. I’m still not ready to go grocery shopping. Will I ever be? This sounds almost ridiculous, but I genuinely worry that my dog is going to lose his social skills since he can’t play or walk with other dogs. And then there’s a billion humans who are also going to lose social skills. I hated going to the grocery store before all this happened. I don't really care if I never step foot in a grocery store again. I do worry about the younger ones development of social skills. I sometimes wonder if we are doing them more harm than good right now, but it won't be forever... I have really come to hate the phrase "the new normal." Most of this stuff is temporary. Sure, some businesses will not survive and this may expedite certain things like Telehealth. Educators in my state have been pushing year round school for many years. This may actually help them with that because the kids are so behind right now. In general though, I don't see people wearing face masks forever, not socializing, traveling and do all the things that make us humans. I seriously hate face masks so as soon as I can stop wearing it I will. I find them hard to breathe in and overall annoying.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 24, 2020 8:24:44 GMT -5
I also really fear Amazon will take over everything. They were already putting others out of business and the timing is right for them just to completely take over. I don't care for monopolies of any kind so I'm still trying to at least somewhat support local retailers.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 24, 2020 8:29:23 GMT -5
We had almost completely gotten away from amazon but then at the beginning of this we were back in full force... trying to rebalance that now!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 8:49:46 GMT -5
We had almost completely gotten away from amazon but then at the beginning of this we were back in full force... trying to rebalance that now! I've managed to avoid them- I use them only for things I can't find near me. I understand that people who are at higher risk are self-isolating more than I am, but I've managed to minimize grocery store trips with more careful planning and don't buy much anywhere else other than home improvement stuff, as I mentioned earlier. I have a generalized version of teen persuasion's concern about the Roman Catholic churches in her diocese disappearing. I'm Episcopalian and I'm wondering how many people will come back to church (or other places of worship). My community has had weekly virtual Happy Hours Friday evenings and Morning Prayer Sunday mornings, but many of our members are older and may not want to be in the pews even after the building is opened. The few young families we have haven't been on-line in the Zoom gatherings. OTOH, when watching services at the National Cathedral I saw many comments from people who usually don't go to church, or who didn't know what the Episcopal Church was about, saying maybe they ought to go back to church. We'll see if they do, but it's all gonna be different. I think it will be a long time before we have Coffee Hour again and I really enjoyed baking for that.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2020 8:53:40 GMT -5
Amazon has it own evils but the selection is just not great around here locally. The nearby counties with greater selection have been hit harder by COVID so I'm avoiding them. And they haven't begun reopening either.
I placed orders with other places in the beginning due to the lag time. They were corporations as well, it wasn't like a small local place was open to take my business.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 24, 2020 9:45:04 GMT -5
I have a vague memory of a conversation with my father from when I was young. I think it was about a version of solitaire. I was telling him that I could win a lot more if only I could do "X". He simply said, "But that isn't how that game is played." He had to repeat it a few times as I argued with him.
COVID 19 won't take into account what will or won't work out well for the existing economic system. It won't take into account any of our personal preferences. Predictions based on such factors: "That is not how this game will be played, IM(not so)HO of course."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 10:52:59 GMT -5
I have a vague memory of a conversation with my father from when I was young. I think it was about a version of solitaire. I was telling him that I could win a lot more if only I could do "X". He simply said, "But that isn't how that game is played." He had to repeat it a few times as I argued with him. COVID 19 won't take into account what will or won't work out well for the existing economic system. It won't take into account any of our personal preferences. Predictions based on such factors: "That is not how this game will be played, IM(not so)HO of course." I actually agree with your father's sentiment. I think one of the biggest problems is we seem to be treating the COVID like it needs to do what we need/want it to do. Until we fix that, people will die unnecessarily. I remember back in the early 1980s when I was in school, my grandfather went on a rant one night about how one day cash money would be gone and it would all be electronic and connected to biometrics. His views at the time were to buy gold/silver and can/dry as much food as possible for the day the electronic system went down to protect wealth.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 24, 2020 10:55:19 GMT -5
I think we are going to be fatter... Even with effort to the contrary, it's hard to not snack or enjoy baking when home 24/7. It's interesting- I see mixed answers on this on other boards. I've had to fight weight gain because I'm on the couch, at the computer or reading instead of out running errands. My flour supply is intact- baked goods are the last thing I need. Others have said that since they're not going out to eat, grabbing snacks in the office break room and picking up food to eat on the run, they're losing weight. I wish. I'd like to see the return of drive-in theatres! My cousin shares the best meme's:
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 24, 2020 11:17:13 GMT -5
I have a vague memory of a conversation with my father from when I was young. I think it was about a version of solitaire. I was telling him that I could win a lot more if only I could do "X". He simply said, "But that isn't how that game is played." He had to repeat it a few times as I argued with him. COVID 19 won't take into account what will or won't work out well for the existing economic system. It won't take into account any of our personal preferences. Predictions based on such factors: "That is not how this game will be played, IM(not so)HO of course." I actually agree with your father's sentiment. I think one of the biggest problems is we seem to be treating the COVID like it needs to do what we need/want it to do. Until we fix that, people will die unnecessarily. ... I question how many will die "unnecessarily". We need to collect data on how this virus behaves. People will die in that process. I support using the greatest percentage as possible of volunteers to test the limits. I see beaches and churches as excellent things to open up. They are non-essential activities and thus totally populated with those who make the choice to be there. Granted someone who is volunteering themselves could kill someone else in the process, say in a car crush with an essential worker traveling to or from work, but all life has risk.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on May 24, 2020 11:28:09 GMT -5
My RV is now resturant seating. I live so far from anything that takeout (which we really can't afford) would be cold by the time we get home. DH got paid yesterday and really wanted to go out. We parked in the parking lot of his favorite inexpensive resturant and ordered take out. With drinks. It was great! We eat, drank (limited) and people watched for about 3 hours (to let the alcohol leave my system before driving home). We had a nice time out of the house. By ourselves.
I can see my RV becoming our new 'restaurant seating' for a long time.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 24, 2020 11:48:06 GMT -5
The last in person doctor appointment I had in mid March didn't take a copay. I was mailed a bill instead. I do like that it has made to go orders from restaurants easier. I love being able to order online or from an app and just pick up. A lot of places have asked for cards to eliminate handling cash. I've only seen two places saying they preferred cash. Cash only? Maybe they are going to evade taxes? Seems like a good year to say that business was down 80% and therefore, no taxes.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2020 13:01:00 GMT -5
They do take cards but they are saying they prefer cash due to the processing fees. Maybe it's true, maybe they are trying to avoid taxes.
I know a couple places that are cash only. One is a small take out only food stand. I think they changed but Zips dry cleaners only used to take cash.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 24, 2020 13:12:20 GMT -5
I worry that this intense and prolonged use of hand sanitizer and disinfectants is going to give bacteria (setting aside viruses for the moment) even more ammunition against antibiotics. Are we setting ourselves up to be doubly vulnerable? I spent the last 20 years raising kids ($$$$). They are almost flown. Our plan was to get some big trips in after we finished paying for college and before we got too old to go. I fear we won’t be able to travel as planned now. I haven’t been in a grocery store since the middle of March, both for my own protection and to keep my cooties away from front-line essential workers. I’m still not ready to go grocery shopping. Will I ever be? This sounds almost ridiculous, but I genuinely worry that my dog is going to lose his social skills since he can’t play or walk with other dogs. And then there’s a billion humans who are also going to lose social skills. No need to worry about antibiotic resistance. Alcohol based hand sanitizers work in a completely different way. We are exactly like you. Third kid almost done with college and we were planning to enjoy ourselves finally. That is clearly on hold now Like everyone else I have made some bad choices and some good ones in life. It looks like I lucked out with at least one of them: I have travelled for as long as I can remember. My parents may have a lot to do with that since they took us camping all over Europe way before that was the "thing to do". We trekked across the world with little kids and it was not fancy either but it was fun (think traveling across Java by train, bus, taxi with a 6yo and a 2yo, no reservations type of travel). I still have a lot of places to go, but whether I can do so will depend on how long this will take. 11to 15 hour plane rides may be beyond what I can do if this takes too long. That said - I have my old biddy card and there are plenty of NPs still on my list of places to go. taking a boat to Europe may be slower but that would be easier on the old bones. Not giving up quite yet... Moral of my post: if you want to travel sacrfice luxury over time as you can never know what will happen
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haapai
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Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,880
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Post by haapai on May 24, 2020 13:23:20 GMT -5
They do take cards but they are saying they prefer cash due to the processing fees. Maybe it's true, maybe they are trying to avoid taxes. I know a couple places that are cash only. One is a small take out only food stand. I think they changed but Zips dry cleaners only used to take cash. Processing fees have dropped so substantially over the last 20 years that the restaurant or recreational business telling you this is probably lying, unless they sell skin, then they might be telling you the truth. (There are lots of chargebacks if you sell T or A.) A good way to figure out if the no credit cards policy is really about fees is to figure out whether you are talking to the owner, the owner's spouse, or one of their children. If they are any of those three, the business is avoiding declaring revenue.
If they are not one of the above, there's a distinct possibility that the employee in question isn't going to be reporting the revenue to their boss. You've got to be working with scandalously thin margins, or having someone else take a cut, to be willing to refuse plastic. Remember those 18% higher tabs that we used to talk about 10-20 years ago. You only forgo that kind of increased revenue when you are facing 25-40% effective taxation on revenue that you have a decent chance of not declaring.
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