hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 9:00:17 GMT -5
Well, that's just nuts. How much of that time is taken up going through the line to get food? Is there any time left to go outside and play if you gobble it down fast enough? This encourages really bad eating habits. Closer to the OT- it's sad that people are turning it into a class thing. There are plenty of professional-level jobs that people of any race can't do at home, starting with doctors, nurses, dentists, etc. And daycare centers, at least in the past, weren't willing to work with parents who wanted less than a 5-day schedule. I suppose that will have to change. While you're right it's not strictly a class issues due to some high paying essential jobs, them likely having money to throw at the problem can make it less of an issue for them. If you're making 6 figures you might have money to higher tutors to supplement virtual learning or be able to hire a nanny that will watch them during the virtual school and help them with their work. Options those with a lower income just don't have. Yes, though at that point everything is basically a "class issue". There are very few things having a significant amount of money won't help you with.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 20, 2020 9:03:42 GMT -5
DAYCARE IS NECESSARY what is so hard to get about that? All 300 of my coworkers are working remotely, but there are people working on-site. Why don't we all go back? Grocery store workers are getting way more exposed than I would be in my cube. If they deemed grocery store work acceptable why am I remote? If we can send a 6 year old to a daycare center to sit around and play, what's your issue with sending that same 6 year old to a school to sit around and learn? It would be the equivalent of telling you that you can't go to your cube to work because it's too dangerous, but instead you can go to a cube in another building that's exactly the same and sit there and watch YouTube for 8 hours. Every additional kid that doesn't go to daycare, or every additional person that doesn't go into the office, helps limit the spread. If school is open, more kids will be going. Mine will, even though I'd rather they not go.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 9:16:23 GMT -5
DAYCARE IS NECESSARY what is so hard to get about that? All 300 of my coworkers are working remotely, but there are people working on-site. Why don't we all go back? Grocery store workers are getting way more exposed than I would be in my cube. If they deemed grocery store work acceptable why am I remote? If we can send a 6 year old to a daycare center to sit around and play, what's your issue with sending that same 6 year old to a school to sit around and learn? It would be the equivalent of telling you that you can't go to your cube to work because it's too dangerous, but instead you can go to a cube in another building that's exactly the same and sit there and watch YouTube for 8 hours. I give up. I'm assuming you're just intentionally being obtuse.
And I have NO issue with sending that same 6 year old to a place where they can learn. I have an issue of sending EVERY 6 year old just because.
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hoops902
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 9:20:44 GMT -5
If we can send a 6 year old to a daycare center to sit around and play, what's your issue with sending that same 6 year old to a school to sit around and learn? It would be the equivalent of telling you that you can't go to your cube to work because it's too dangerous, but instead you can go to a cube in another building that's exactly the same and sit there and watch YouTube for 8 hours. I give up. I'm assuming you're just intentionally being obtuse. You should give up when you realize you are wrong and know far less than the person you're talking to. As they say, better late than never!
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 20, 2020 9:35:02 GMT -5
Because DH and I can handle working with the kids on remote learning, if spots become limited, we'll volunteer to give our spot up so that someone else that really needs to the spot so they can work and feed, and shelter their family can take it. We'll manage.
I'm actually pretty convenience I'm just not meant to have a nice life, where I can be happy and relax. Given that, what's another year of what we've been going through already since March?
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 20, 2020 10:10:29 GMT -5
I see an issue with hallways and bussing. Different kids getting into close proximity, or really challenging scheduling for classes to avoid each other. So do away with bussing...and put kids into 1 classroom for the day for elementary schools. It seems like the "too young to stay at home" could be resolved there, and then only leaving middle school and high school to learn virtually (and I'm not sure middle school couldn't stay in the same room all day with some small modification). You can't do away with bussing, by law, and practically speaking because students couldn't get to the school without buses. Elementary students are already in one classroom all day, except for "specials" - gym, music, art, library, etc. In theory, they could move the teachers instead of the kids for some of those (gym and library have to move, obviously). Lunch is done by grade level, mixing multiple classrooms. Tripling the number of lunch periods becomes a time crunch. Not sure all of middle school could stay home and self-homeschool, 5th grade is a bit young to be left to their own devices. Believe me, we get them in the village library whenever there's a half-day (or 3) for parent/teacher conferences; we become their caregivers whether we want to or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 10:12:57 GMT -5
I think the dilemma is interesting because it is going to force us to analyze what schools really are. A lot of people call teachers "glorified babysitters," but somehow virtual learning isn't working out so well for a lot of people who are forced into home schooling. Good teachers are so much more than a collection of worksheets. By the way, I don't disagree that supervision is also an important part of education. And I think that is true for teens as well as preschoolers.
In theory, however, educators resist the notion that the public's need for childcare should dictate the structure of education. If they didn't, we would have year-round schools with schedules that match the typical work schedule. Instead, parents are often forced to find before and after school care. Oh, and summer care as well. So while you have a valid point that these younger kids can't stay home alone all day, theoretically that isn't the school's problem. The school's problem is how to educate these kids safely and effectively.
That may mean some sort of split schedule where some of the kids come in the morning and some in the afternoon. That may mean kids alternate days of the week. There may be a blend of virtual and brick-and-mortar style learning. Schools are going to have to be creative because some schools (and class sizes) are enormous. When I was in library school, there was an AP French teacher at a large Las Vegas high school who had 45 students in each of her classes. Our high school has 2900 kids in the halls for class change every hour. That isn't safe under current conditions.
It will be interesting to see the creative solutions that schools come up with. That said, I am glad I am retired.
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hoops902
Senior Associate
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 10:18:14 GMT -5
So do away with bussing...and put kids into 1 classroom for the day for elementary schools. It seems like the "too young to stay at home" could be resolved there, and then only leaving middle school and high school to learn virtually (and I'm not sure middle school couldn't stay in the same room all day with some small modification). You can't do away with bussing, by law, and practically speaking because students couldn't get to the school without buses. Elementary students are already in one classroom all day, except for "specials" - gym, music, art, library, etc. In theory, they could move the teachers instead of the kids for some of those (gym and library have to move, obviously). Lunch is done by grade level, mixing multiple classrooms. Tripling the number of lunch periods becomes a time crunch. Not sure all of middle school could stay home and self-homeschool, 5th grade is a bit young to be left to their own devices. Believe me, we get them in the village library whenever there's a half-day (or 3) for parent/teacher conferences; we become their caregivers whether we want to or not. Do away with gym & library, it's not like those things are happening now. Do away with bussing...you can't say "you can't do away with it by law"...because laws are being changed all the time during the pandemic. There are laws about how many days a kid has to go to school also...boom out the window. Eat lunch in their classrooms. I honestly don't know anywhere that middle school starts at 5th grade. Around here it's 7th grade, and in rare circumstances 6th grade. I agree both of those could be a bit young...and if they are...treat them like the younger kids (at least here they have limited choices on different classes anyways...it's more aligned with elementary structure than a HS structure).
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 20, 2020 10:21:56 GMT -5
DAYCARE IS NECESSARY what is so hard to get about that? All 300 of my coworkers are working remotely, but there are people working on-site. Why don't we all go back? Grocery store workers are getting way more exposed than I would be in my cube. If they deemed grocery store work acceptable why am I remote? If we can send a 6 year old to a daycare center to sit around and play, what's your issue with sending that same 6 year old to a school to sit around and learn? It would be the equivalent of telling you that you can't go to your cube to work because it's too dangerous, but instead you can go to a cube in another building that's exactly the same and sit there and watch YouTube for 8 hours. I'm not understanding why a 6 yo would be going to daycare to play, instead of first grade, to learn. Even so, daycare is a small number of children. Elementary school is at least an order of magnitude more children. The more people you are exposed to, the greater the chance you are exposed to someone with Covid-19.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 10:26:35 GMT -5
You can't do away with bussing, by law, and practically speaking because students couldn't get to the school without buses. Elementary students are already in one classroom all day, except for "specials" - gym, music, art, library, etc. In theory, they could move the teachers instead of the kids for some of those (gym and library have to move, obviously). Lunch is done by grade level, mixing multiple classrooms. Tripling the number of lunch periods becomes a time crunch. Not sure all of middle school could stay home and self-homeschool, 5th grade is a bit young to be left to their own devices. Believe me, we get them in the village library whenever there's a half-day (or 3) for parent/teacher conferences; we become their caregivers whether we want to or not. Do away with gym & library, it's not like those things are happening now. Do away with bussing...you can't say "you can't do away with it by law"...because laws are being changed all the time during the pandemic. There are laws about how many days a kid has to go to school also...boom out the window. Eat lunch in their classrooms. I honestly don't know anywhere that middle school starts at 5th grade. Around here it's 7th grade, and in rare circumstances 6th grade. I agree both of those could be a bit young...and if they are...treat them like the younger kids (at least here they have limited choices on different classes anyways...it's more aligned with elementary structure than a HS structure). You live in a small town. My district has elementary schools, intermediate schools, middle schools, and high schools. But you are right about middle schools generally don't start below 6th grade. That's because in Alabama you are dealing with a different teaching certificate. You are certified to teach elementary or secondary in Alabama. Only a few fields offer K-12 certification such as art, pe, library, music, etc.
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hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 10:28:28 GMT -5
I think the dilemma is interesting because it is going to force us to analyze what schools really are. A lot of people call teachers "glorified babysitters," but somehow virtual learning isn't working out so well for a lot of people who are forced into home schooling. Good teachers are so much more than a collection of worksheets. By the way, I don't disagree that supervision is also an important part of education. And I think that is true for teens as well as preschoolers. In theory, however, educators resist the notion that the public's need for childcare should dictate the structure of education. If they didn't, we would have year-round schools with schedules that match the typical work schedule. Instead, parents are often forced to find before and after school care. Oh, and summer care as well. So while you have a valid point that these younger kids can't stay home alone all day, theoretically that isn't the school's problem. The school's problem is how to educate these kids safely and effectively. That may mean some sort of split schedule where some of the kids come in the morning and some in the afternoon. That may mean kids alternate days of the week. There may be a blend of virtual and brick-and-mortar style learning. Schools are going to have to be creative because some schools (and class sizes) are enormous. When I was in library school, there was an AP French teacher at a large Las Vegas high school who had 45 students in each of her classes. Our high school has 2900 kids in the halls for class change every hour. That isn't safe under current conditions. It will be interesting to see the creative solutions that schools come up with. That said, I am glad I am retired. Theoretically it's not their problem, practically it probably is though. If people want their kids to remote learn...there's really very little to no reason at all to have that remote learning administered by someone with little/no experience in remote learning like a teacher who is used to teaching in their classroom. They might as well enroll their kids in an online program and bypass their local school system altogether. It's going to be the school district's problem, and by extension, the problem of teachers who want to retain their jobs (I think you can liken it to a lot of jobs where people say "well really that's not my job"...but it is). The person stocking shelves at Wal-Mart thinks their job is to stock shelves, but they better answer customer questions or be friendly when approached. My job isn't to teach people how to use Excel, but when my boss is asking me how to set something up I can't very well say "figure it out yourself". So they can resist the idea of it being related in any way to childcare...but they'd be well-served to understand that absent that physical presence/supervision/childcare...they may not have that job (particularly as we discuss things like online learning which have no real requirement to be done by someone who lives in that community). Same goes for worksheets not working out well for many...the system in place at the moment isn't necessarily a good system because it's something people scrambled to throw together in a lot of cases.
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hoops902
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Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 10:30:51 GMT -5
If we can send a 6 year old to a daycare center to sit around and play, what's your issue with sending that same 6 year old to a school to sit around and learn? It would be the equivalent of telling you that you can't go to your cube to work because it's too dangerous, but instead you can go to a cube in another building that's exactly the same and sit there and watch YouTube for 8 hours. I'm not understanding why a 6 yo would be going to daycare to play, instead of first grade, to learn.Even so, daycare is a small number of children. Elementary school is at least an order of magnitude more children. The more people you are exposed to, the greater the chance you are exposed to someone with Covid-19. Because schools are closed, so they can't go to first grade...and a 6 year old isn't old enough to stay at home alone. Daycare is a small number of children? My kid is in a daycare classroom that has as many kids in it as her school classroom will.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 10:37:48 GMT -5
You can't do away with bussing, by law, and practically speaking because students couldn't get to the school without buses. Elementary students are already in one classroom all day, except for "specials" - gym, music, art, library, etc. In theory, they could move the teachers instead of the kids for some of those (gym and library have to move, obviously). Lunch is done by grade level, mixing multiple classrooms. Tripling the number of lunch periods becomes a time crunch. Not sure all of middle school could stay home and self-homeschool, 5th grade is a bit young to be left to their own devices. Believe me, we get them in the village library whenever there's a half-day (or 3) for parent/teacher conferences; we become their caregivers whether we want to or not. Do away with gym & library, it's not like those things are happening now. Do away with bussing...you can't say "you can't do away with it by law"...because laws are being changed all the time during the pandemic. There are laws about how many days a kid has to go to school also...boom out the window. Eat lunch in their classrooms. I honestly don't know anywhere that middle school starts at 5th grade. Around here it's 7th grade, and in rare circumstances 6th grade. I agree both of those could be a bit young...and if they are...treat them like the younger kids (at least here they have limited choices on different classes anyways...it's more aligned with elementary structure than a HS structure). Our middle school is 5th - 8th. Here's a link so you can now say you know one.
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thyme4change
Community Leader
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Post by thyme4change on May 20, 2020 10:40:33 GMT -5
I can see a cottage industry popping up where someone will take a small number of children from one school and offer part time care, complete with a distance learning plan. There are 1,000 students at the elementary school up the street. If they go 50%, maybe some kids can learn from home. But maybe 50 people who have had their household income cut each take 10 kids and set up 5 chrome books, 5 play outside, 5 learn, and then switch. Do a craft, feed lunch, charge 25/kid/day.
Maybe the libraries will step up and host kids that can't afford to go elsewhere. Most braches around here are pretty small, but might be able to take 15 or so kids and put them into 2 groups.
Maybe the schools could bring in some portables and add a few classrooms.
There will be lots of empty store fronts. I wonder if someone can muster the money to turn them into makeshift schools for a year. We'd have to hire a bunch of teachers, or maybe teacher's aides and have video of the actual teacher, while someone is in the room to keep the kids behaving, etc.
No matter what happens, it will be bad and will be more harmful to the most at risk children. The only comforting news is that pretty much every kid around the world is going through the same thing. The entire generation may fall behind. Some will fall behind more.
Creativity can improve the situation, but it will also take money. We will have to raise taxes on the wealthiest people in the nation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 10:41:30 GMT -5
If we can send a 6 year old to a daycare center to sit around and play, what's your issue with sending that same 6 year old to a school to sit around and learn? It would be the equivalent of telling you that you can't go to your cube to work because it's too dangerous, but instead you can go to a cube in another building that's exactly the same and sit there and watch YouTube for 8 hours. I'm not understanding why a 6 yo would be going to daycare to play, instead of first grade, to learn. Even so, daycare is a small number of children. Elementary school is at least an order of magnitude more children. The more people you are exposed to, the greater the chance you are exposed to someone with Covid-19. Hoops doesn't understand the concept of minimizing exposure. Good for one, good for all!
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thyme4change
Community Leader
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Post by thyme4change on May 20, 2020 10:45:10 GMT -5
Do away with gym & library, it's not like those things are happening now. Do away with bussing...you can't say "you can't do away with it by law"...because laws are being changed all the time during the pandemic. There are laws about how many days a kid has to go to school also...boom out the window. Eat lunch in their classrooms. I honestly don't know anywhere that middle school starts at 5th grade. Around here it's 7th grade, and in rare circumstances 6th grade. I agree both of those could be a bit young...and if they are...treat them like the younger kids (at least here they have limited choices on different classes anyways...it's more aligned with elementary structure than a HS structure). You live in a small town. My district has elementary schools, intermediate schools, middle schools, and high schools. But you are right about middle schools generally don't start below 6th grade. That's because in Alabama you are dealing with a different teaching certificate. You are certified to teach elementary or secondary in Alabama. Only a few fields offer K-12 certification such as art, pe, library, music, etc. In this area middle school is 5th-8th. 5 years in elementary 4 years in middle 4 years in high school It makes it easier when they are spread more evenly. If they go through 6th grade, elementary schools have to be huge and they start wielding a bunch of power because they are responsible for half a child's learning and half the students in any district.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 10:47:54 GMT -5
I can see a cottage industry popping up where someone will take a small number of children from one school and offer part time care, complete with a distance learning plan. There are 1,000 students at the elementary school up the street. If they go 50%, maybe some kids can learn from home. But maybe 50 people who have had their household income cut each take 10 kids and set up 5 chrome books, 5 play outside, 5 learn, and then switch. Do a craft, feed lunch, charge 25/kid/day. Maybe the libraries will step up and host kids that can't afford to go elsewhere. Most braches around here are pretty small, but might be able to take 15 or so kids and put them into 2 groups. Maybe the schools could bring in some portables and add a few classrooms. There will be lots of empty store fronts. I wonder if someone can muster the money to turn them into makeshift schools for a year. We'd have to hire a bunch of teachers, or maybe teacher's aides and have video of the actual teacher, while someone is in the room to keep the kids behaving, etc. No matter what happens, it will be bad and will be more harmful to the most at risk children. The only comforting news is that pretty much every kid around the world is going through the same thing. The entire generation may fall behind. Some will fall behind more. Creativity can improve the situation, but it will also take money. We will have to raise taxes on the wealthiest people in the nation. I'm not sure why you'd even hire teachers if you were running this as a business though. You can enroll in online learning that already has things like videos...and then you just have someone supervising the kids. That's why I think the idea teachers have that "daycare isn't our function" might be short-sighted. Virtual learning is already light years ahead of what most districts have in place right now...so if you were going to have kids learn virtually there's less and less reason for classroom teachers to exist (at least in the numbers they exist today). I also think that just practically speaking...having kids go 50% isn't going to do much. Expose your kid to 500 others vs 1000? And then consider how much crossover there is between the 2 groups as friends, staff, extracurriculars, these daycare/learning systems, etc. Not to mention that it would be pausing mid-day, disinfecting the entire school, then resuming. Seems...impractical IMO.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 10:51:08 GMT -5
I'm not understanding why a 6 yo would be going to daycare to play, instead of first grade, to learn. Even so, daycare is a small number of children. Elementary school is at least an order of magnitude more children. The more people you are exposed to, the greater the chance you are exposed to someone with Covid-19. Hoops doesn't understand the concept of minimizing exposure. Good for one, good for all! In your mind exposure is minimized by putting everyone into room B, instead of room A, even though both rooms are same. Reminds me a lot of President Trump's logic. So I guess congratulations are in order, you have the same intelligence level as our current President! "Big news America, we have completely ELIMINATED exposure in Room A because I'm such a smart smart man, really smart, like the smartest".
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 20, 2020 10:53:10 GMT -5
You can't do away with bussing, by law, and practically speaking because students couldn't get to the school without buses. Elementary students are already in one classroom all day, except for "specials" - gym, music, art, library, etc. In theory, they could move the teachers instead of the kids for some of those (gym and library have to move, obviously). Lunch is done by grade level, mixing multiple classrooms. Tripling the number of lunch periods becomes a time crunch. Not sure all of middle school could stay home and self-homeschool, 5th grade is a bit young to be left to their own devices. Believe me, we get them in the village library whenever there's a half-day (or 3) for parent/teacher conferences; we become their caregivers whether we want to or not. Do away with gym & library, it's not like those things are happening now. Do away with bussing...you can't say "you can't do away with it by law"...because laws are being changed all the time during the pandemic. There are laws about how many days a kid has to go to school also...boom out the window. Eat lunch in their classrooms. I honestly don't know anywhere that middle school starts at 5th grade. Around here it's 7th grade, and in rare circumstances 6th grade. I agree both of those could be a bit young...and if they are...treat them like the younger kids (at least here they have limited choices on different classes anyways...it's more aligned with elementary structure than a HS structure). If you don't have bussing, 90% of the students wouldn't be able to get to school, they live too far away to walk. The ES is 10 miles away from the MS and HS which share a campus and bus run. Logistics matter. Our district reorganized a decade ago. Formerly it was 2 ES k-6 (one in each village) and one Jr/Sr HS 7-12. The far ES became the new ES prek-4, the near ES became the MS 5-8, and the Jr/Sr HS dropped the Jr part to do only 9-12, because that's the standard HS around here now. The endpoints at grades 4, 8, 12 were to align with state testing standards. This rearrangement also worked well for the population breakdowns by age (the HS was getting too crowded), and eliminated a good bit of bussing between the far village and the HS for things like swimming (HS pool), orchestra rehearsal (joint older ES level), sports. Keeping all the MS and HS age kids in one village simplifies things immensely just because of proximity. Now, larger districts do divide the grade cutoffs differently. Some are fewer grades per building, so ES may be k-3, MS 4-6, Jr high 7-8, HS 9-12. Then MS skews even younger, because they put a Jr High level in the mix. It's not the k-8 ES that I went to ages ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 10:56:12 GMT -5
I can see a cottage industry popping up where someone will take a small number of children from one school and offer part time care, complete with a distance learning plan. There are 1,000 students at the elementary school up the street. If they go 50%, maybe some kids can learn from home. But maybe 50 people who have had their household income cut each take 10 kids and set up 5 chrome books, 5 play outside, 5 learn, and then switch. Do a craft, feed lunch, charge 25/kid/day. Maybe the libraries will step up and host kids that can't afford to go elsewhere. Most braches around here are pretty small, but might be able to take 15 or so kids and put them into 2 groups. Maybe the schools could bring in some portables and add a few classrooms. There will be lots of empty store fronts. I wonder if someone can muster the money to turn them into makeshift schools for a year. We'd have to hire a bunch of teachers, or maybe teacher's aides and have video of the actual teacher, while someone is in the room to keep the kids behaving, etc. No matter what happens, it will be bad and will be more harmful to the most at risk children. The only comforting news is that pretty much every kid around the world is going through the same thing. The entire generation may fall behind. Some will fall behind more. Creativity can improve the situation, but it will also take money. We will have to raise taxes on the wealthiest people in the nation. I can see our school (K-8) saying the upper grades remain distant learning while the lower grades all come in. Although, our 7th and 8th are in a separate wing of the building, so technically they could isolate those grades pretty easily on campus by not letting them use the lunchroom. It's a small school with less than 300 students...but also physically a small school with combined grades.
I won't do distant with my rising 5th grader if it's going to be like it was this spring. I'll put him in the online public school or enroll him in the private that seems to have their s**t together more with the distant learning and they can be more creative with their plans because they don't need to worry about things being equitable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 10:59:29 GMT -5
I think the dilemma is interesting because it is going to force us to analyze what schools really are. A lot of people call teachers "glorified babysitters," but somehow virtual learning isn't working out so well for a lot of people who are forced into home schooling. Good teachers are so much more than a collection of worksheets. By the way, I don't disagree that supervision is also an important part of education. And I think that is true for teens as well as preschoolers. In theory, however, educators resist the notion that the public's need for childcare should dictate the structure of education. If they didn't, we would have year-round schools with schedules that match the typical work schedule. Instead, parents are often forced to find before and after school care. Oh, and summer care as well. So while you have a valid point that these younger kids can't stay home alone all day, theoretically that isn't the school's problem. The school's problem is how to educate these kids safely and effectively. That may mean some sort of split schedule where some of the kids come in the morning and some in the afternoon. That may mean kids alternate days of the week. There may be a blend of virtual and brick-and-mortar style learning. Schools are going to have to be creative because some schools (and class sizes) are enormous. When I was in library school, there was an AP French teacher at a large Las Vegas high school who had 45 students in each of her classes. Our high school has 2900 kids in the halls for class change every hour. That isn't safe under current conditions. It will be interesting to see the creative solutions that schools come up with. That said, I am glad I am retired. Theoretically it's not their problem, practically it probably is though. If people want their kids to remote learn...there's really very little to no reason at all to have that remote learning administered by someone with little/no experience in remote learning like a teacher who is used to teaching in their classroom. They might as well enroll their kids in an online program and bypass their local school system altogether. It's going to be the school district's problem, and by extension, the problem of teachers who want to retain their jobs (I think you can liken it to a lot of jobs where people say "well really that's not my job"...but it is). The person stocking shelves at Wal-Mart thinks their job is to stock shelves, but they better answer customer questions or be friendly when approached. My job isn't to teach people how to use Excel, but when my boss is asking me how to set something up I can't very well say "figure it out yourself". So they can resist the idea of it being related in any way to childcare...but they'd be well-served to understand that absent that physical presence/supervision/childcare...they may not have that job (particularly as we discuss things like online learning which have no real requirement to be done by someone who lives in that community). Same goes for worksheets not working out well for many...the system in place at the moment isn't necessarily a good system because it's something people scrambled to throw together in a lot of cases. We aren't disagreeing. That's why I keep putting in the word "theoretically."
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 11:00:36 GMT -5
Do away with gym & library, it's not like those things are happening now. Do away with bussing...you can't say "you can't do away with it by law"...because laws are being changed all the time during the pandemic. There are laws about how many days a kid has to go to school also...boom out the window. Eat lunch in their classrooms. I honestly don't know anywhere that middle school starts at 5th grade. Around here it's 7th grade, and in rare circumstances 6th grade. I agree both of those could be a bit young...and if they are...treat them like the younger kids (at least here they have limited choices on different classes anyways...it's more aligned with elementary structure than a HS structure). If you don't have bussing, 90% of the students wouldn't be able to get to school, they live too far away to walk. The ES is 10 miles away from the MS and HS which share a campus and bus run. Logistics matter. Our district reorganized a decade ago. Formerly it was 2 ES k-6 (one in each village) and one Jr/Sr HS 7-12. The far ES became the new ES prek-4, the near ES became the MS 5-8, and the Jr/Sr HS dropped the Jr part to do only 9-12, because that's the standard HS around here now. The endpoints at grades 4, 8, 12 were to align with state testing standards. This rearrangement also worked well for the population breakdowns by age (the HS was getting too crowded), and eliminated a good bit of bussing between the far village and the HS for things like swimming (HS pool), orchestra rehearsal (joint older ES level), sports. Keeping all the MS and HS age kids in one village simplifies things immensely just because of proximity. Now, larger districts do divide the grade cutoffs differently. Some are fewer grades per building, so ES may be k-3, MS 4-6, Jr high 7-8, HS 9-12. Then MS skews even younger, because they put a Jr High level in the mix. It's not the k-8 ES that I went to ages ago. When you say "the students" I assume you mean students in your district? Without knowing how your specific district operates, and being surrounded by a fair bit of small towns that share facilities here...around here you are responsible for getting your kid to that town's school (even if they don't do their classes there), then the bus takes them to the campus they attend classes at. In that kind of setup, busing isn't a problem, because you put kids who are going to the same classroom on the same buses (sections of buses). Ultimately though...it seems less problematic to tell parents "you're responsible for getting your kids to the school now instead of the buses" as opposed to "the kids are home with you all day now". Even if the current situation was voluntary to attend as opposed to a normal situation where it's required.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 11:01:17 GMT -5
Hoops doesn't understand the concept of minimizing exposure. Good for one, good for all! In your mind exposure is minimized by putting everyone into room B, instead of room A, even though both rooms are same. Reminds me a lot of President Trump's logic. So I guess congratulations are in order, you have the same intelligence level as our current President! "Big news America, we have completely ELIMINATED exposure in Room A because I'm such a smart smart man, really smart, like the smartest". These people have to work (or more accurately their parents do), so put them in Room A or Room B. What difference does it make? Make it a fucking school if that makes you feel better. But we don't need to send 100% of the students to school during a pandemic because 20% need childcare.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 11:01:45 GMT -5
Theoretically it's not their problem, practically it probably is though. If people want their kids to remote learn...there's really very little to no reason at all to have that remote learning administered by someone with little/no experience in remote learning like a teacher who is used to teaching in their classroom. They might as well enroll their kids in an online program and bypass their local school system altogether. It's going to be the school district's problem, and by extension, the problem of teachers who want to retain their jobs (I think you can liken it to a lot of jobs where people say "well really that's not my job"...but it is). The person stocking shelves at Wal-Mart thinks their job is to stock shelves, but they better answer customer questions or be friendly when approached. My job isn't to teach people how to use Excel, but when my boss is asking me how to set something up I can't very well say "figure it out yourself". So they can resist the idea of it being related in any way to childcare...but they'd be well-served to understand that absent that physical presence/supervision/childcare...they may not have that job (particularly as we discuss things like online learning which have no real requirement to be done by someone who lives in that community). Same goes for worksheets not working out well for many...the system in place at the moment isn't necessarily a good system because it's something people scrambled to throw together in a lot of cases. We aren't disagreeing. That's why I keep putting in the word "theoretically." I know, I'm not disagreeing with you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 11:08:01 GMT -5
I can see a cottage industry popping up where someone will take a small number of children from one school and offer part time care, complete with a distance learning plan. There are 1,000 students at the elementary school up the street. If they go 50%, maybe some kids can learn from home. But maybe 50 people who have had their household income cut each take 10 kids and set up 5 chrome books, 5 play outside, 5 learn, and then switch. Do a craft, feed lunch, charge 25/kid/day. Maybe the libraries will step up and host kids that can't afford to go elsewhere. Most braches around here are pretty small, but might be able to take 15 or so kids and put them into 2 groups. Maybe the schools could bring in some portables and add a few classrooms. There will be lots of empty store fronts. I wonder if someone can muster the money to turn them into makeshift schools for a year. We'd have to hire a bunch of teachers, or maybe teacher's aides and have video of the actual teacher, while someone is in the room to keep the kids behaving, etc. No matter what happens, it will be bad and will be more harmful to the most at risk children. The only comforting news is that pretty much every kid around the world is going through the same thing. The entire generation may fall behind. Some will fall behind more. Creativity can improve the situation, but it will also take money. We will have to raise taxes on the wealthiest people in the nation. I can see our school (K-8) saying the upper grades remain distant learning while the lower grades all come in. Although, our 7th and 8th are in a separate wing of the building, so technically they could isolate those grades pretty easily on campus by not letting them use the lunchroom. It's a small school with less than 300 students...but also physically a small school with combined grades.
I won't do distant with my rising 5th grader if it's going to be like it was this spring. I'll put him in the online public school or enroll him in the private that seems to have their s**t together more with the distant learning and they can be more creative with their plans because they don't need to worry about things being equitable.
I taught for ACCESS, Alabama's virtual education system. They had a good online curriculum, but the problem was pacing. Some kids need more individual help, etc. They had facilitators, hoops902, who weren't teachers. Their function was to keep kids on task so that they weren't cruising the internet or IMing their friends. A facilitator, however, did not have the knowledge to pace, answer content questions, and evaluate the student's work. Work also has to be adjusted to conform to special education accommodations. Teaching virtually was time consuming so you can't have one "master" teacher for hundreds of kids. I had a class of 15 once in addition to my regular teaching load, and I was working a couple of extra hours every day.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 20, 2020 11:18:40 GMT -5
I'm not understanding why a 6 yo would be going to daycare to play, instead of first grade, to learn.Even so, daycare is a small number of children. Elementary school is at least an order of magnitude more children. The more people you are exposed to, the greater the chance you are exposed to someone with Covid-19. Because schools are closed, so they can't go to first grade...and a 6 year old isn't old enough to stay at home alone. Daycare is a small number of children? My kid is in a daycare classroom that has as many kids in it as her school classroom will. But how many kids are in the daycare itself? I'm used to daycares being a half dozen kids max in a home setting, or what, 15 kids in a commercial one? If you are talking larger numbers than that, there's no way I'd send my little ones to a warehousing type daycare scenario. In the ES situation, the kids are exposed to most of the kids in the school, regardless of keeping them in a single 25-30 kid classroom daily. They ride the bus, or walk. They all funnel in one door (safety protocols after school shootings, to eliminate the threat of unauthorized people getting in) and fan out to the different grade wings. Multi-age orchestra and band and chorus. Lunch. Recess. Our district (a small, rural one) has roughly 100 kids per grade level. That's ~472 kids in the ES (UPK isn't universal, they limit slots to 72).
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 11:21:35 GMT -5
I can see our school (K-8) saying the upper grades remain distant learning while the lower grades all come in. Although, our 7th and 8th are in a separate wing of the building, so technically they could isolate those grades pretty easily on campus by not letting them use the lunchroom. It's a small school with less than 300 students...but also physically a small school with combined grades.
I won't do distant with my rising 5th grader if it's going to be like it was this spring. I'll put him in the online public school or enroll him in the private that seems to have their s**t together more with the distant learning and they can be more creative with their plans because they don't need to worry about things being equitable.
I taught for ACCESS, Alabama's virtual education system. They had a good online curriculum, but the problem was pacing. Some kids need more individual help, etc. They had facilitators, hoops902 , who weren't teachers. Their function was to keep kids on task so that they weren't cruising the internet or IMing their friends. A facilitator, however, did not have the knowledge to pace, answer content questions, and evaluate the student's work. Work also has to be adjusted to conform to special education accommodations. Teaching virtually was time consuming so you can't have one "master" teacher for hundreds of kids. I had a class of 15 once in addition to my regular teaching load, and I was working a couple of extra hours every day. I was speaking more to what I think would be LIKELY to happen in that kind of business popping up in a random town, as opposed to what I think a very good setup would be. I think the more likely scenario is someone random "supervising" the kids while they do online classes...who likely doesn't have a great skill set for answering questions, pacing, etc. I think the more likely setup is essentially a "computer lab" where students enroll themselves (or parents enroll them) into the state's online education system much as they would if they were just doing it at home, but essentially plays babysitter by providing a physical location for them to attend daily to do that stuff. You absolutely CAN have one "master" teacher for hundreds of kids, just like you do in collegiate online classes. I'm not saying it's a great setup for learning...but it's certainly possible. You have videos, standardized homework/tests/questions, etc. It might be a stretch to call it "teaching" i suppose...self-paced and guided online tutorial viewing? It's not too different than what's happening around here right now for HS kids...teacher makes a video, students watch the video, complete basic homework handouts, done. Whether 5 kids or 500 kids watch the video doesn't make much difference. The biggest issue right now is the handouts are paper because they haven't been digitized to complete. Again, not saying it's an ideal learning system...but I can definitely see someone having that setup (especially if the alternatives seem poor).
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 20, 2020 11:28:40 GMT -5
Because schools are closed, so they can't go to first grade...and a 6 year old isn't old enough to stay at home alone. Daycare is a small number of children? My kid is in a daycare classroom that has as many kids in it as her school classroom will. But how many kids are in the daycare itself? I'm used to daycares being a half dozen kids max in a home setting, or what, 15 kids in a commercial one? If you are talking larger numbers than that, there's no way I'd send my little ones to a warehousing type daycare scenario. In the ES situation, the kids are exposed to most of the kids in the school, regardless of keeping them in a single 25-30 kid classroom daily. They ride the bus, or walk. They all funnel in one door (safety protocols after school shootings, to eliminate the threat of unauthorized people getting in) and fan out to the different grade wings. Multi-age orchestra and band and chorus. Lunch. Recess. Our district (a small, rural one) has roughly 100 kids per grade level. That's ~472 kids in the ES (UPK isn't universal, they limit slots to 72). Couple hundred. Rooms vary from 10-15 kids (and my kid is in a room that can best be described as a "double room" (like a preschool, they have their own 2 classrooms and then they all interact together for a bunch of stuff too). They have about 20 rooms total...it's one of the smaller non-home daycares around. It's essentially the same setup as a Kindergarten is here in terms of her wing of the building. There's no reason they need things like multi-age orchestra, band, chorus...multi age lunches or recess. Those things take a snap of the fingers to fix. Things like the door and transportation...same issues daycares have. They go in one door, someone has to get them there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 11:30:23 GMT -5
I give up. I'm assuming you're just intentionally being obtuse. You should give up when you realize you are wrong and know far less than the person you're talking to. As they say, better late than never @minnesota, being a jerk to the women on this board is just his thing. Ignoring him, like many of us are doing, makes your experience nicer here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 11:34:17 GMT -5
Perhaps this country needs to find a way where scraping by doesn't require 2 full-time incomes, so people can watch their own children when necessary and tend to their educational needs.
The problem is school has now become daycare and the feeding program for many children in this country without parents having any other options. Perhaps new options are needed?
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