bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on May 17, 2020 8:33:58 GMT -5
Retired people get into car accidents, have emergency home repairs, or need to pay full price for health care . An emergency fund allows me to cover these expenses without pulling my money out of investments when the market is down 5000 points. Retired people who wish to delay drawing social security or those without pensions have a greater need for an emergency fund.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 8:46:46 GMT -5
I think someone needs to define EF. Like I said, previously, I had a few thousand in savings. Now I have 30+k. It isn't really for an emergency. It is liquid and just there. I think $5000+ in a savings account is sufficient if your job is secure. Mine was as a tenured teacher. broadly - money for the unexpected, unanticipated? Like a tree through a newish roof that you weren't planning on replacing any time soon....unemployment, medical or legal issues? May vary. For me, unemployment is my largest worry. unemployment payments (should one be able to get it!!) would not cover my bills, and I think my salary would be a time consuming job search to replace. I don't really think you need one once you are retired, especially with guaranteed income that covers all expenses and some pot of money for other things that can be tapped. You already have it covered. I know that is what Blonde Granny and @athena53 said, but I don't really think that's true. A tree through the roof can still happen, a car can still need replacing, and so on. If that "pot of money" isn't liquid, you could find yourself tapping into it during a really down period like now. And you may have to pay taxes on what you withdraw to fix that roof. I think retired people need to save for a rainy day just like anyone else. It still rains at my house, and Murphy still drops by.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 17, 2020 9:03:55 GMT -5
I've neglected our emergency fund, trying to get our retirement fund on track. I've felt secure that we can cash flow the typical emergencies. When this came down and the reality of potentially losing all sources of income hit I panicked. We've been very fortunate that everything is still coming in and we're holding on to the windfalls that have since come in so we have about 3 months expenses cash. Assuming my job paid out my pto I have 7 weeks saved there. Then assuming we'd get unemployment, I think we could float long enough to not have to touch retirement money. Might have to sell a property, and or move into one of the current rentals depending on how long this went on.
No where close to where we should be, but panic has mostly passed.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 17, 2020 9:04:38 GMT -5
broadly - money for the unexpected, unanticipated? Like a tree through a newish roof that you weren't planning on replacing any time soon....unemployment, medical or legal issues? May vary. For me, unemployment is my largest worry. unemployment payments (should one be able to get it!!) would not cover my bills, and I think my salary would be a time consuming job search to replace. I don't really think you need one once you are retired, especially with guaranteed income that covers all expenses and some pot of money for other things that can be tapped. You already have it covered. I know that is what Blonde Granny and @athena53 said, but I don't really think that's true. A tree through the roof can still happen, a car can still need replacing, and so on. If that "pot of money" isn't liquid, you could find yourself tapping into it during a really down period like now. And you may have to pay taxes on what you withdraw to fix that roof. I think retired people need to save for a rainy day just like anyone else. It still rains at my house, and Murphy still drops by. Seems to be just semantics. Stocks are pretty liquid. You sell and have the cash within minutes. Having it in stocks or bonds or money market or cash - that is just asset allocation to my mind. Once retired you can access it without penalty. If you have the money for whatever may come up - there is no need for an "emergency fund" per se. In your case, you have guaranteed income that covers yearly expected expenses. No worries on a loss of income. Then you a pot of 500k. There isn't anything that is going to come up that you can't handle. Leastwise, nothing that having a separate pot of 20k or 30k called an EF is going to change.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 17, 2020 9:07:37 GMT -5
I've neglected our emergency fund, trying to get our retirement fund on track. I've felt secure that we can cash flow the typical emergencies. When this came down and the reality of potentially losing all sources of income hit I panicked. We've been very fortunate that everything is still coming in and we're holding on to the windfalls that have since come in so we have about 3 months expenses cash. Assuming my job paid out my pto I have 7 weeks saved there. Then assuming we'd get unemployment, I think we could float long enough to not have to touch retirement money. Might have to sell a property, and or move into one of the current rentals depending on how long this went on. No where close to where we should be, but panic has mostly passed. I'm similar emotionally. Luckily work pressures were insane when things started to unravel so I didn't have time to really worry overmuch and had extra income coming through. Now that things are clearing a little - I'm having more thoughts.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on May 17, 2020 9:10:03 GMT -5
DH and I got serious about savings a few years ago when the 3rd child left the nest. We were in our late 50s, we were both unhappy in our well paid jobs, our home was paid off, but I (not DH) was uncomfortable with the amount of cash we had on hand. We had both started to max the 401Ks about 5 years ago, so we were on track with that. I joined the WIR Savers thread and really got going. It has motivated me to see the totals increase monthly. My only real vice is travel, but we have always planned for that and continued to take trips while building savings.
Right now we have about 58k in savings, which would cover over a year of expenses. We have an open HELOC with about 60k available, our HSA account has 18k in it, and we keep about $1200 in cash at home.
In the years leading up to this, we spent money on education, 2 weddings, a new roof, a new HVAC system, a new car after mine was totaled, so of course it was harder to put any real money away.
Even now, with what we have, it would be a stretch to get us to 65 and Medicare. We would both be quitting our jobs right now if not for healthcare costs. So we hang in there during this pandemic and are extremely thankful that we are in the position we are. It only pushes me to keep saving.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 9:59:05 GMT -5
broadly - money for the unexpected, unanticipated? Like a tree through a newish roof that you weren't planning on replacing any time soon....unemployment, medical or legal issues? May vary. For me, unemployment is my largest worry. unemployment payments (should one be able to get it!!) would not cover my bills, and I think my salary would be a time consuming job search to replace. I don't really think you need one once you are retired, especially with guaranteed income that covers all expenses and some pot of money for other things that can be tapped. You already have it covered. I know that is what Blonde Granny and @athena53 said, but I don't really think that's true. A tree through the roof can still happen, a car can still need replacing, and so on. If that "pot of money" isn't liquid, you could find yourself tapping into it during a really down period like now. And you may have to pay taxes on what you withdraw to fix that roof. I think retired people need to save for a rainy day just like anyone else. It still rains at my house, and Murphy still drops by. I was looking at the world through YM glasses and assuming a retired person had a stockpile of investments and after retirement there would be a good percentage not in the stock market that could be tapped for things like this. But, if someone was just living off of SS and/or a pension, then yeah, they should make sure they have proper sinking funds for car repairs and such, but I don't consider that EF stuff. Also, if someone has a guaranteed income going the credit route to cover a replacement car, or home repairs is a lot less risky.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 12:19:53 GMT -5
I know that is what Blonde Granny and @athena53 said, but I don't really think that's true. A tree through the roof can still happen, a car can still need replacing, and so on. If that "pot of money" isn't liquid, you could find yourself tapping into it during a really down period like now. And you may have to pay taxes on what you withdraw to fix that roof. I think retired people need to save for a rainy day just like anyone else. It still rains at my house, and Murphy still drops by. I was looking at the world through YM glasses and assuming a retired person had a stockpile of investments and after retirement there would be a good percentage not in the stock market that could be tapped for things like this. But, if someone was just living off of SS and/or a pension, then yeah, they should make sure they have proper sinking funds for car repairs and such, but I don't consider that EF stuff. Also, if someone has a guaranteed income going the credit route to cover a replacement car, or home repairs is a lot less risky. I'm a YM failure. I've never really had a sinking fund. I have s couple of savings accounts and a house maintenance account. But I usually ended up supplementing whatever from regular savings. Maybe the Christmas Club account is sort of what you mean.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on May 17, 2020 12:48:13 GMT -5
I'm a YM failure too. We have 3 savings accounts, one funded entirely by DH's pension. That's about to get a lot lighter since it's paying for his ramp. But that technically is a planned expense and that is what that account is specifically earmarked for: DH's medical/home expense. Then I have my savings account that I have $25 a week deposited into and my former car payment put in monthly as I paid it off two months ago. The third account is just there. I guess that would be the actual emergency fund account. I do need to go to the bank and set up a direct deposit from DH's checking because the effing website won't let me do it. And I guess another $25 a week from me won't hurt either. I need to write out my expenses and stop eating/buying so much food. Not tonight though. It's my 17th anniversary and I'm getting Polcari's damn it!
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on May 17, 2020 12:54:38 GMT -5
I'm a YM failure too. We have 3 savings accounts, one funded entirely by DH's pension. That's about to get a lot lighter since it's paying for his ramp. But that technically is a planned expense and that is what that account is specifically earmarked for: DH's medical/home expense. Then I have my savings account that I have $25 a week deposited into and my former car payment put in monthly as I paid it off two months ago. The third account is just there. I guess that would be the actual emergency fund account. I do need to go to the bank and set up a direct deposit from DH's checking because the effing website won't let me do it. And I guess another $25 a week from me won't hurt either. I need to write out my expenses and stop eating/buying so much food. Not tonight though. It's my 17th anniversary and I'm getting Polcari's damn it! Happy Anniversary.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 17, 2020 12:58:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 13:04:35 GMT -5
I was looking at the world through YM glasses and assuming a retired person had a stockpile of investments and after retirement there would be a good percentage not in the stock market that could be tapped for things like this. But, if someone was just living off of SS and/or a pension, then yeah, they should make sure they have proper sinking funds for car repairs and such, but I don't consider that EF stuff. Also, if someone has a guaranteed income going the credit route to cover a replacement car, or home repairs is a lot less risky. I'm a YM failure. I've never really had a sinking fund. I have s couple of savings accounts and a house maintenance account. But I usually ended up supplementing whatever from regular savings. Maybe the Christmas Club account is sort of what you mean. It's semantics. A house maintenance account is a sinking fund. A "couple savings accounts" that pay for periodic expenses is a sinking fund. And then another "regular savings account" on the side? You don't have to fund them all monthly to be sinking funds. All a sinking fund really is is savings for periodic expenses.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on May 17, 2020 13:41:10 GMT -5
We just have one main pot of savings that covers planned expenses, vacations, emergencies, etc. I don't have the desire to separate car fund from vacation from house from medical emergency. It's just all there if we need it. We aim to save $1000 a month and life goes on. We have a Vanguard account that we don't touch aside from putting some money into at the end of the year. I guess that's our super emergency "everything is blowing up times 10" money.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on May 17, 2020 14:05:11 GMT -5
I'm a YM failure too. We have 3 savings accounts, one funded entirely by DH's pension. That's about to get a lot lighter since it's paying for his ramp. But that technically is a planned expense and that is what that account is specifically earmarked for: DH's medical/home expense. Then I have my savings account that I have $25 a week deposited into and my former car payment put in monthly as I paid it off two months ago. The third account is just there. I guess that would be the actual emergency fund account. I do need to go to the bank and set up a direct deposit from DH's checking because the effing website won't let me do it. And I guess another $25 a week from me won't hurt either. I need to write out my expenses and stop eating/buying so much food. Not tonight though. It's my 17th anniversary and I'm getting Polcari's damn it!Happy Anniversary!! Go for it And enjoy.
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ners
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Post by ners on May 17, 2020 14:17:40 GMT -5
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on May 17, 2020 15:15:03 GMT -5
We spend less than we earn, by a lot. Max out 401k’s, and Roths when we remember to, but otherwise we basically let money pile up. At last check DH had more than enough to pay off our mortgage just sitting in the bank I have another 50k or so in my checking account. I guess we’re a different kind of YM failure.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 17, 2020 15:18:57 GMT -5
what's polcaris?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 17, 2020 15:24:55 GMT -5
I know that is what Blonde Granny and @athena53 said, but I don't really think that's true. A tree through the roof can still happen, a car can still need replacing, and so on. If that "pot of money" isn't liquid, you could find yourself tapping into it during a really down period like now. And you may have to pay taxes on what you withdraw to fix that roof. I think retired people need to save for a rainy day just like anyone else. It still rains at my house, and Murphy still drops by. Seems to be just semantics. Stocks are pretty liquid. You sell and have the cash within minutes. Having it in stocks or bonds or money market or cash - that is just asset allocation to my mind. Once retired you can access it without penalty. If you have the money for whatever may come up - there is no need for an "emergency fund" per se. In your case, you have guaranteed income that covers yearly expected expenses. No worries on a loss of income. Then you a pot of 500k. There isn't anything that is going to come up that you can't handle. Leastwise, nothing that having a separate pot of 20k or 30k called an EF is going to change. It's a matter of timing. Yeah, you could pull that money out of retirement investments but if you happen to pull it out at the wrong time, you can be paying a larger percentage of taxes on it than you intended. It might be the difference between paying 22% vs 25%, and that's just federal tax. That also does not count on what pulling money out of your accounts will do with regards to what you pay for Medicare. IIRMA kicks in and you can find yourself paying up to an additional $400-500/mo for your Medicare for the year (on top of whatever you pay for your supplement). It really isn't as easy as you make it seem.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on May 17, 2020 15:26:33 GMT -5
what's polcaris?AA restaurant that we like to order from for special occasions since the place we went for our first date is now a Chinese place. And the other place we went to is now a memory care facility.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 17, 2020 15:31:20 GMT -5
Have a lovely meal/evening!
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 17, 2020 15:49:59 GMT -5
Seems to be just semantics. Stocks are pretty liquid. You sell and have the cash within minutes. Having it in stocks or bonds or money market or cash - that is just asset allocation to my mind. Once retired you can access it without penalty. If you have the money for whatever may come up - there is no need for an "emergency fund" per se. In your case, you have guaranteed income that covers yearly expected expenses. No worries on a loss of income. Then you a pot of 500k. There isn't anything that is going to come up that you can't handle. Leastwise, nothing that having a separate pot of 20k or 30k called an EF is going to change. It's a matter of timing. Yeah, you could pull that money out of retirement investments but if you happen to pull it out at the wrong time, you can be paying a larger percentage of taxes on it than you intended. It might be the difference between paying 22% vs 25%, and that's just federal tax. That also does not count on what pulling money out of your accounts will do with regards to what you pay for Medicare. IIRMA kicks in and you can find yourself paying up to an additional $400-500/mo for your Medicare for the year (on top of whatever you pay for your supplement). It really isn't as easy as you make it seem. I still consider that an asset allocation issue.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on May 17, 2020 23:02:50 GMT -5
We pulled out money last year and paid taxes from hubs 401k. That hurt but we wanted enough available so when he needs a new or gently used vehicle he can get it. His truck has 158k miles on it. Still doesn't use oil, he did some work on the plugs and runs really good I drove it the other day so don't know when that will be. But its there in his account for when he needs it.
Other then that most of our stuff is wants. He is doing wiring in his garage here and just stuff he wants to do. We really don't have any needs. We have enough available cash for new appliances or whatever. A roof shouldn't be one, this metal roof is supposed to be a 40 year roof, its why we spent so much having it put on. One day we may need a new heating/cooling system but think that is way down the road too. Right now my want is new flooring and I have the money set aside for that.
We are fortunate and we know it. So far we are fine and should remain so. The big issue is when one of us gets sick and starts to need help. That will cost and tear up the budget, but just take that in stride when/if it does. Then other spending will slow way down so that will help too. It's coming and we know it. You can only prepare so much for that.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on May 18, 2020 7:07:16 GMT -5
One of the things I've noticed reading this thread is the common thought that all retired people would have some sort of 401K or other retirement plan....and then face tax consequences if any was take out. wrong.
My DH was with a n Employee owned company. The rules with his company was when you left the company for any reason, all stock had to be sold back. He retired in 1995 when he was 51 years old. We lived on our investments until he passed away at age 71 in 2015, + SS that both of us have/had. Our only investments was the company stock, we've never had any of those other things that is the common investments available now.l
Unlike Athena, I don't take anything from my brokerage accounts. SS and VA takes care of my monthly spending and I start to panic when I think about taking any money from those accounts. A couple of years ago I had an $8K+ repair to my almost new house to have the dormer removed and rebuilt. FA sold a little bit, and sent me the money as my checking account wasn't being that generous.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 18, 2020 7:33:52 GMT -5
In strict EF funds. Zero. I have a taxable investment account I can tap into and I have credit cards.
If we're talking just right NOW, I've got a bunch of cash in my checking account because we're building a house and I pulled the funds from my taxable account when we started (because I didn't want to be selling off shares every week to pay that week's bill from the builder). In general though, we have no savings account and we have in our checking account about a month's worth of paychecks at most and close to zero at the least.
I've got a couple thousand in cash hidden around my house for poker, and a box at the casino with another couple thousand in chips...I wouldn't consider either of those an actual EF but it's the closest thing to cash that I have.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 18, 2020 9:01:40 GMT -5
We don't have an EF. Or a taxable account. Or even a savings account for DH and me anymore. Everything gets dumped into the checking account. I think there's about 15K in it right now.
My job is stable. I work for local gov't. I will probably be taking furloughs but in the past they tried to stagger them out over time. I cover the health insurance.
DH's job is probably stable. He's fairly integral to the company so my take is that they have to go under before he loses his job.
We 15% to retirement and I'll have a pension. I still need to rebalance but at this point, I figure I'll just keep on riding it out until July when I turn 50. DH's accounts are less risky than mine so he's probably doing better but we're not looking at either account right now.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 18, 2020 9:26:08 GMT -5
We don't have an EF. Or a taxable account. Or even a savings account for DH and me anymore. Everything gets dumped into the checking account. I think there's about 15K in it right now.
My job is stable. I work for local gov't. I will probably be taking furloughs but in the past they tried to stagger them out over time. I cover the health insurance.
DH's job is probably stable. He's fairly integral to the company so my take is that they have to go under before he loses his job.
We 15% to retirement and I'll have a pension. I still need to rebalance but at this point, I figure I'll just keep on riding it out until July when I turn 50. DH's accounts are less risky than mine so he's probably doing better but we're not looking at either account right now.
what happens at 50? Access to accounts penalty free if loss of job?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 18, 2020 9:43:00 GMT -5
We don't have an EF. Or a taxable account. Or even a savings account for DH and me anymore. Everything gets dumped into the checking account. I think there's about 15K in it right now.
My job is stable. I work for local gov't. I will probably be taking furloughs but in the past they tried to stagger them out over time. I cover the health insurance.
DH's job is probably stable. He's fairly integral to the company so my take is that they have to go under before he loses his job.
We 15% to retirement and I'll have a pension. I still need to rebalance but at this point, I figure I'll just keep on riding it out until July when I turn 50. DH's accounts are less risky than mine so he's probably doing better but we're not looking at either account right now.
what happens at 50? Access to accounts penalty free if loss of job? Oh, nothing like that. I figured I'll shift to less risky funds for some of the account, so all my eggs aren't in a high risk basket. I should be able to retire with full benefits at 55, although health insurance cost is the big question. I started working full time with the City at 1993, when I was 23. They usually offer at "85 and out" where you need to be 55 years old with 30+ years of full time service to get full benefits. My pension would be maxed at 70% of my highest base salary average for 3 years.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 18, 2020 9:58:23 GMT -5
what happens at 50? Access to accounts penalty free if loss of job? Oh, nothing like that. I figured I'll shift to less risky funds for some of the account, so all my eggs aren't in a high risk basket. I should be able to retire with full benefits at 55, although health insurance cost is the big question. I started working full time with the City at 1993, when I was 23. They usually offer at "85 and out" where you need to be 55 years old with 30+ years of full time service to get full benefits. My pension would be maxed at 70% of my highest base salary average for 3 years. That is awesome!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 18, 2020 10:08:10 GMT -5
Oh, nothing like that. I figured I'll shift to less risky funds for some of the account, so all my eggs aren't in a high risk basket. I should be able to retire with full benefits at 55, although health insurance cost is the big question. I started working full time with the City at 1993, when I was 23. They usually offer at "85 and out" where you need to be 55 years old with 30+ years of full time service to get full benefits. My pension would be maxed at 70% of my highest base salary average for 3 years. That is awesome! Yeah, I tend to treat that as my 'cash/bonds' portion of a retirement plan and leave the 457 for growth.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 18, 2020 10:13:39 GMT -5
My job is stable. I work for local gov't. I will probably be taking furloughs but in the past they tried to stagger them out over time. I cover the health insurance.
DH's job is probably stable. He's fairly integral to the company so my take is that they have to go under before he loses his job.
I used to think where I was was very stable to. I'm lucky. I expect up to 1/2 of our department to get extra furloughs on top of the ones we already have to take. We're seeing our dean go after relatively small sums of money in the great scheme of things: we got restructured so our particular school could get 1-2 million, instead of that money going back to campus. I'm betting the special furloughs are only going to save 10% off of our operating budget.
I feel like it's the equivalent of looking for change in the sofa cushions...And when it gets to that point, that one is scrounging for change...it's bad.
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