A lot of small business will not come back...

[TheHaitian]

Do you agree?

After a hard talk with my friend that owns a restaurant, he feels he has 3 months max. After that he will probably have to call it quits.

My next door neighbor is a contractor and his saving grace is that his wife has a nice cushy government job and they always made sure they could cover everything under her income.

I need to fix a leak in my bathroom upstairs and have him replace/repair the drywall the leak damaged in the bathroom downstairs but my wife is still concerned with letting people in the house. Our pest control company only did outside this month and he said that has been a lot of his clients ; just inspect inside and do not go inside.

The owner of the bar I used to frequent said this might be the final nail in their coffin... I toyed around with buying the bar last year but he was only interested in selling the building and keep renting the bar. Last minute a family came through with some help $$$.... but the past 8 weeks did not help. Another month or so, he thinks he is done.

I am part of a small business owners community and a lot of people fear this if it continues another 2-3 months will be the end for them. In VA this hairdresser was supposed to open this week and had the first week fully booked, and now VA pushed it back another week. She was devastated and actually was on the news.

It is a crazy reminder for me that behind a lot of little shops, bars, restaurants, specialty shops ... there is a middle class man or woman that still have a family to feed and take care of. They are not all rich, rolling in it as a landlord posted.

Someone called him a greedy bastard for still wanting to collect rent during this time but like he said: there is no relief for him offered by his bank. It is either pay it now or pay it later: they are not forgiving the amount.

[formerroomate99]

Yes, Even in normal times, plenty of small and large businesses fail. Not being able to operate for two solid months he’s going to kill a lot of places.

We just don’t want to get it to the point where too many fail and we fall into a depression.

[jerseygirl]

Agree
Keeping small businesses closed is terrible. People can’t rely on government- either party. Neither have covered themselves in glory
Makes no sense to allow SOME big stores Walmart Target Home Depot and not allow for example a small shoe store to open.
Why not let younger healthy people freedom. If you’re old or medically fragile take precautions . Nursing homes need much more caution that for example NY governor Cuomo who sent patients with Covid back to nursing home
The medical system and hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed and in much of the country no problems with hospitals
I like that Elon Musk is bringing a suit against California for closing down his factory. No reason masks and distancing can’t cut down contagion
If I had a small store or business I would open and bring suit against government entity
Government can’t dole out $$$ without getting it from businesses or people earning
Think many people don’t comprehend this and think federal government can just keep shoveling out dollars. They think the other political party would be more competent- No way, neither

[pulmonarymd]

May 13, 2020 15:38:45 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Agree
Keeping small businesses closed is terrible. People can’t rely on government- either party. Neither have covered themselves in glory
Makes no sense to allow SOME big stores Walmart Target Home Depot and not allow for example a small shoe store to open.
Why not let younger healthy people freedom. If you’re old or medically fragile take precautions . Nursing homes need much more caution that for example NY governor Cuomo who sent patients with Covid back to nursing home
The medical system and hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed and in much of the country no problems with hospitals
I like that Elon Musk is bringing a suit against California for closing down his factory. No reason masks and distancing can’t cut down contagion
If I had a small store or business I would open and bring suit against government entity
Government can’t dole out $$$ without getting it from businesses or people earning
Think many people don’t comprehend this and think federal government can just keep shoveling out dollars. They think the other political party would be more competent- No way, neither

Except there are a significant proportion of the population who will act like idiots. If we would actually follow the guidelines, we would be able to open things up safer. But if we act like nothing has changed, and go back to how things were beforehand, we will be in trouble.

And again, since the hospitals in nyc were overwhelmed, what were they supposed to do with patients who did not need to be hospitalized? Where were they supposed to go? Javits and the hospital ship were not up and running until April, and the initial plan was for non-covid patients. Problem was, there wasn’t any of those

[Deleted]

I think it depends on what type of business you own, the duration of the pandemic, and how bad the overall economy gets.

I've sold items off of my website and off of Facebook this month. I'd assumed art/jewelry would be low on peoples' shopping lists, but many people are bored at home and buying fun things to enjoy. 

My original plan was to be building inventory for a year or two from now while not doing much marketing. I've changed my mind on that now and hope to have a decent holiday season.

The local drive-thru coffee shack is doing fantastic business. But, the high-end restaurant seems to struggle selling people $25 per plate takeout.

The local tire shops are booming due to tourists as well as people off work who now have time to take their vehicles in for service. 

I think this will be a lot harder on small businesses with a lot of overhead costs and those not set up to do business online. I also think in a couple years bankruptcy attorneys will be in very high demand.

[formerroomate99]

May 13, 2020 15:44:53 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 13, 2020 15:38:45 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Agree
Keeping small businesses closed is terrible. People can’t rely on government- either party. Neither have covered themselves in glory
Makes no sense to allow SOME big stores Walmart Target Home Depot and not allow for example a small shoe store to open.
Why not let younger healthy people freedom. If you’re old or medically fragile take precautions . Nursing homes need much more caution that for example NY governor Cuomo who sent patients with Covid back to nursing home
The medical system and hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed and in much of the country no problems with hospitals
I like that Elon Musk is bringing a suit against California for closing down his factory. No reason masks and distancing can’t cut down contagion
If I had a small store or business I would open and bring suit against government entity
Government can’t dole out $$$ without getting it from businesses or people earning
Think many people don’t comprehend this and think federal government can just keep shoveling out dollars. They think the other political party would be more competent- No way, neither

Except there are a significant proportion of the population who will act like idiots. If we would actually follow the guidelines, we would be able to open things up safer. But if we act like nothing has changed, and go back to how things were beforehand, we will be in trouble.

And again, since the hospitals in nyc were overwhelmed, what were they supposed to do with patients who did not need to be hospitalized? Where were they supposed to go? Javits and the hospital ship were not up and running until April, and the initial plan was for non-covid patients. Problem was, there wasn’t any of those

Javits did eventually switch to taking Covid patients, and still sat empty. Honestly I think Cuomo would rather see his people die that admit you got any help from the feds. And are you really making the case that nobody had a heart attack or got hurt or had a baby in April? Nobody got appendicitis? Nobody got a nasty infection? Nobody got just plain old bacterial pneumonia or a bad flu? In a city of 8 million, for an entire month?

[pulmonarymd]

May 13, 2020 16:07:41 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

May 13, 2020 15:44:53 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Except there are a significant proportion of the population who will act like idiots. If we would actually follow the guidelines, we would be able to open things up safer. But if we act like nothing has changed, and go back to how things were beforehand, we will be in trouble.

And again, since the hospitals in nyc were overwhelmed, what were they supposed to do with patients who did not need to be hospitalized? Where were they supposed to go? Javits and the hospital ship were not up and running until April, and the initial plan was for non-covid patients. Problem was, there wasn’t any of those

Javits did eventually switch to taking Covid patients, and still sat empty. Honestly I think Cuomo would rather see his people die that admit you got any help from the feds. And are you really making the case that nobody had a heart attack or got hurt or had a baby in April? Nobody got appendicitis? Nobody got a nasty infection? Nobody got just plain old bacterial pneumonia or a bad flu? In a city of 8 million, for an entire month?

There was a scary absence of those things, unexplainable really. But yes, if you look at the data in NYC during this period, there were significantly fewer of those illnesses, noone has an answer for it. I suspect that some of the deaths at home were due to people who refused to go to the hospital with those problems. We have seen the same thing. Hospital admissions and ED visits were down in every category except for respiratory illnesses. You may not believe it, but it did actually occur. 

The alternate sites taking patients eventually did nothing to alleviate the bottleneck in the hospitals early on. There was no good option. They were making new ICUs on an every 2-3 day basis in the early days of the epidemic. They needed to discharge everyone they could to make room for the onslaught. One hospital I am familiar with, which usually has about 575 beds, had over 700 patients, almost 100 on vents, and almost all of them COVID. Unless you were exposed to this, you literally have no idea what an absolute disaster it was.

[jerseygirl]

So Cuomo (or others) just threw up his hands and said back to nursing home is the only choice. Or not just sending back but when it the severe problem was discovered
What about all the empty hotels in NYC? Homeless and released prisoners are being put up in some hotels Empty college dorms? Insist to use Javits or USS Comfort?? YMCAs? Dedicate some nursing homes to only Covid? Surely there were other choices

Disgraceful

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Society may well experience some long lasting or even permanent changes. I'm not sure how viable certain businesses may be - small or large - in that landscape.

But I'm unsure if the OP is asking us to feel more for a small business owner going out of business vs an employee losing their job? There are a lot of people out of work right now, it seems the same to me.

[jerseygirl]

Think I saw once that about 50% of US employees work for small businesses . So if a business fails so go the employees. Helping employees ONLY will decrease numbers of businesses that can hire people. We can’t continue to have large numbers of people only dependent on government. Government will fail or just state printing money - Venezuela

[Rukh O'Rorke]

May 13, 2020 16:45:53 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Think I saw once that about 50% of US employees work for small businesses . So if a business fails so go the employees. Helping employees ONLY will decrease numbers of businesses that can hire people. We can’t continue to have large numbers of people only dependent on government. Government will fail or just state printing money - Venezuela

you are obsessed with this notion! wedging it into every discourse whether it fits the narrative or not!

new businesses will mushroom up to replace the old - as new entrepreneurs find goods and services people are willing to pay for now.

constantly bailing out failing business is a reward for failure and a recipe for disaster.

[jerseygirl]

But these many weren’t failing until forced to ‘fail’ by government
Not the usual business that wasn’t run well or needed that is normal

[Rukh O'Rorke]

May 13, 2020 16:57:05 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

But these many weren’t failing until forced to ‘fail’ by government
Not the usual business that wasn’t run well or needed that is normal

what business are being forced fail by the government? Are you referring to the shelter in place?

they'd all be closed by now anyway due to everyone sick and many dying. 

[NastyWoman]

May 13, 2020 16:37:39 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 13, 2020 16:07:41 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Javits did eventually switch to taking Covid patients, and still sat empty. Honestly I think Cuomo would rather see his people die that admit you got any help from the feds. And are you really making the case that nobody had a heart attack or got hurt or had a baby in April? Nobody got appendicitis? Nobody got a nasty infection? Nobody got just plain old bacterial pneumonia or a bad flu? In a city of 8 million, for an entire month?

There was a scary absence of those things, unexplainable really. But yes, if you look at the data in NYC during this period, there were significantly fewer of those illnesses, noone has an answer for it. I suspect that some of the deaths at home were due to people who refused to go to the hospital with those problems. We have seen the same thing. Hospital admissions and ED visits were down in every category except for respiratory illnesses. You may not believe it, but it did actually occur. 

The alternate sites taking patients eventually did nothing to alleviate the bottleneck in the hospitals early on. There was no good option. They were making new ICUs on an every 2-3 day basis in the early days of the epidemic. They needed to discharge everyone they could to make room for the onslaught. One hospital I am familiar with, which usually has about 575 beds, had over 700 patients, almost 100 on vents, and almost all of them COVID. Unless you were exposed to this, you literally have no idea what an absolute disaster it was.

I don't know about other parts of the country but here in the Bay Area the news reported on that fairly early on. And doctors were pleading with people to not stay home in case of an emergency out of fear of an infection. People were staying home with strokes and heart attacks too long and often could not be saved once they arrived. I have taken to limiting the time I watch the news lately so I don't know if that is still going on. But since C19 is stubborn around here despite the now almost 9 weeks SIP it would not amaze me if this were still going on

[swamp]

May 13, 2020 16:07:41 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

May 13, 2020 15:44:53 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Except there are a significant proportion of the population who will act like idiots. If we would actually follow the guidelines, we would be able to open things up safer. But if we act like nothing has changed, and go back to how things were beforehand, we will be in trouble.

And again, since the hospitals in nyc were overwhelmed, what were they supposed to do with patients who did not need to be hospitalized? Where were they supposed to go? Javits and the hospital ship were not up and running until April, and the initial plan was for non-covid patients. Problem was, there wasn’t any of those

Javits did eventually switch to taking Covid patients, and still sat empty. Honestly I think Cuomo would rather see his people die that admit you got any help from the feds. And are you really making the case that nobody had a heart attack or got hurt or had a baby in April? Nobody got appendicitis? Nobody got a nasty infection? Nobody got just plain old bacterial pneumonia or a bad flu? In a city of 8 million, for an entire month?

It wasn’t empty.  My husband worked there. 

[Deleted]

I don't know that businesses have to fail, but they do have to change their business model.  I like online pickup and would be willing to do it with small stores as well if they had websites.  Some restaurants are doing brisk take-out business (NomoreDramaQ1015 's father is an example), but you have to advertise.  I don't mean on tv or even on the web, which costs $$$.  My favorite BBQ place lets us know every single day what the specials are.  Another place bought a food truck to expand his geographical reach.  

The PPP program was designed to allow small businesses to survive.  And a lot of small businesses got the forgiveable loans the second time around.  That can probably sustain them long enough to get back to a limited reopening.

But they can't think "Same old, Same old."  Life has changed.  We may not necessarily ever really go back to the old model completely.

[pulmonarymd]

May 13, 2020 17:49:55 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

May 13, 2020 16:37:39 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There was a scary absence of those things, unexplainable really. But yes, if you look at the data in NYC during this period, there were significantly fewer of those illnesses, noone has an answer for it. I suspect that some of the deaths at home were due to people who refused to go to the hospital with those problems. We have seen the same thing. Hospital admissions and ED visits were down in every category except for respiratory illnesses. You may not believe it, but it did actually occur. 

The alternate sites taking patients eventually did nothing to alleviate the bottleneck in the hospitals early on. There was no good option. They were making new ICUs on an every 2-3 day basis in the early days of the epidemic. They needed to discharge everyone they could to make room for the onslaught. One hospital I am familiar with, which usually has about 575 beds, had over 700 patients, almost 100 on vents, and almost all of them COVID. Unless you were exposed to this, you literally have no idea what an absolute disaster it was.

I don't know about other parts of the country but here in the Bay Area the news reported on that fairly early on. And doctors were pleading with people to not stay home in case of an emergency out of fear of an infection. People were staying home with strokes and heart attacks too long and often could not be saved once they arrived. I have taken to limiting the time I watch the news lately so I don't know if that is still going on. But since C19 is stubborn around here despite the now almost 9 weeks SIP it would not amaze me if this were still going on

It has been strange for sure. People were deathly afraid. They would call me and say they were really short of breath, and the pushback when I said they needed to go to the ED was incredible. Also would see the name of some patients in the obituary and know they weren’t in the hospital, so they died at home from god knows what. Was disheartening at the reluctance to follow our advice

[Deleted]

May 13, 2020 18:02:42 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

I don't know that businesses have to fail, but they do have to change their business model.  I like online pickup and would be willing to do it with small stores as well if they had websites.  Some restaurants are doing brisk take-out business (NomoreDramaQ1015 's father is an example), but you have to advertise.  I don't mean on tv or even on the web, which costs $$$.  My favorite BBQ place lets us know every single day what the specials are.  Another place bought a food truck to expand his geographical reach.  

The PPP program was designed to allow small businesses to survive.  And a lot of small businesses got the forgiveable loans the second time around.  That can probably sustain them long enough to get back to a limited reopening.

But they can't think "Same old, Same old."  Life has changed.  We may not necessarily ever really go back to the old model completely.

I sat through a very long meeting today on this topic.  Many of our local small businesses are mom & pop shops opened by first gen immigrants.  For a long time, the local economic development folks have pushed them to embrace a more contemporary business model, with limited success.  Now is do-or-die time because if you can't post a menu online, accept credit cards, take orders online or by phone, and offer takeout/curbside pickup, you are NOT going to survive.  There are restaurants I would love to get food from, but with no online ordering, no one answering the phone speaking English, no credit card payment, etc. it's not happening.  We do takeout regularly from some of our favorite places that send frequent emails-amazing Lebanese, incredible French/Spanish fusion.  

I worry that our local neighborhood garden center will go under, but it's still the only place you can take a bug or weed in a plastic bag and find out what you need to do to kill it; where you can get onion sets, bulk seeds, almost every brand of lawn equipment serviced, dog food, parrot food, etc.  

[giramomma]

May 13, 2020 18:02:42 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

But they can't think "Same old, Same old."  Life has changed.  We may not necessarily ever really go back to the old model completely.

I don't work for small business, but we are having a hell of a time at work convincing folks that they way they've done things for the past 25-30 years won't work next year.

Rather than try to get ahead of the situation, they want to sit back with their thumbs up their rears and wait until the last minute to make decisions. Then, it will be too late to respond in a way that will generate income. It is beyond me how a bunch of well educated people can be so stubborn and set in their ways...to the point that it will cost them their job.

[billisonboard]

May 13, 2020 18:29:56 GMT -5 @donethat said:

...

I worry that our local neighborhood garden center will go under, but it's still the only place you can take a bug or weed in a plastic bag and find out what you need to do to kill it; where you can get onion sets, bulk seeds, almost every brand of lawn equipment serviced, dog food, parrot food, etc.  

[Deleted]

May 13, 2020 18:38:37 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 13, 2020 18:29:56 GMT -5 @donethat said:

...

I worry that our local neighborhood garden center will go under, but it's still the only place you can take a bug or weed in a plastic bag and find out what you need to do to kill it; where you can get onion sets, bulk seeds, almost every brand of lawn equipment serviced, dog food, parrot food, etc.  

Exactly!  My place has a cat or two to make sure nothing of a rodent nature eats the bird seed and other goodies before they are purchased.  If you don't pet the cat when you come in, they know you ain't from around here.  No big box will ever replace them in my heart which is why we pay a few bucks more for their presence and guidance.   They employ our local high school kids, down-on-their-luck vets and other neighborhood folks for carryout, with respect and a fair wage for a tough job.  

[hoops902]

So I'll separate "small businesses" from "restaurants" even though they are often the same.  Restaurants have been in trouble for a long time now, and even without the pandemic would likely continue to be in trouble due to the many ways by which people can order food for delivery now.  Those who don't adapt will, and will have without the pandemic, be going under.  A lot of restaurants won't come back, because the future opportunity just isn't there under the old methodology.  

I'm not sure people plying their personal trade as a small business is likely to go away though.  What's a plumber or a hairdresser going to do instead?  Go work for a company as a plumber or a hairdresser and face the same exact risk of not being able to work?  

[pulmonarymd]

May 13, 2020 16:40:12 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

So Cuomo (or others) just threw up his hands and said back to nursing home is the only choice. Or not just sending back but when it the severe problem was discovered
What about all the empty hotels in NYC? Homeless and released prisoners are being put up in some hotels Empty college dorms? Insist to use Javits or USS Comfort?? YMCAs? Dedicate some nursing homes to only Covid? Surely there were other choices

Disgraceful

He was in a no win situation. Who would take care of the patients in the hotel, if these were people who belonged in s nursing home? If a home was covid only, you were moving all the other patients on short notice. They eventually did that here, but it required a fair amount of time and discussion. A luxury they didn’t have in nyc. It got away from them in ny. They were behind in there decision making, and no doubt made mistakes. Mistakes that may have been foreseen with better planning, like if the feds took it seriously from the beginning, instead of calling it a hoax in late February

[hoops902]

May 13, 2020 16:51:22 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

May 13, 2020 16:45:53 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Think I saw once that about 50% of US employees work for small businesses . So if a business fails so go the employees. Helping employees ONLY will decrease numbers of businesses that can hire people. We can’t continue to have large numbers of people only dependent on government. Government will fail or just state printing money - Venezuela

you are obsessed with this notion! wedging it into every discourse whether it fits the narrative or not!

new businesses will mushroom up to replace the old - as new entrepreneurs find goods and services people are willing to pay for now.

constantly bailing out failing business is a reward for failure and a recipe for disaster.

Or will be replaced by much larger companies.  I'm not sure you can just label a business as "failing" when they would have stayed open had the government not forced them to shut down.  The benefit of big businesses in this kind of thing (save for a few specialties like airlines) is that they sell such an assortment that they can get an exemption to stay open because they find a way to slide themselves into "essential".  

I totally agree we shouldn't be bailing out businesses, but I also think some of that then also has to be "the government can't be shutting down businesses".  That's an artificial fail, not many businesses could survive the government telling them they can't operate while retaining many of their expenses.  There's a canyon to bridge between "we don't bail out failing businesses" and "the government is going to force you to fail due to a short term order".  Government intervention (or lack of) has to go both ways.  We can't prop them up...but then we also can't smash them down into failure.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

As real estate has become a premium there is a trend called "ghost resturants" which has been going on for awhile now.   Places are opening up that are either delivery/take out only or will be sit down at different locations that are posted on social media for those in the know rather than having a fixed address.

This allows places to open up with minimal costs.  Some share a kitchen and dining space operating on different days of the week.

This is a trend that started before the pandemic and I only see increasing in popularity.   We've been take out only since the day we opened back in July and it's REALLY working in our favor now.   Places that can adapt to that will continue to survive or even grow.

I imagine places like your old fashioned steak house will start going the way of the dodo.  High end places will struggle for awhile but the elite have always moved in different circles so I imagine they will bounce back even if it's by operating underground like bootleg bars did in the past.

Those that survive are going to be the ones that aggressively use social media to keep themselves relevant and in the minds of customers.  We have a local boutique that is still hosting regular Facebook get togethers even though they cannot physically have the store open.   

People are getting the word out on social media about their local businesses and the local news sites have been mining that information to post on their web site.  So have both cities.   If you're going to survive this then you need to get your name out there.   

Those that sit on their thumbs won't make it.  Even those that do all of the above may not make it.   If you have a business that is near and dear to you get the word out on your own social media.  Join NextDoor and mention them.    There is a local group here of about 100 people who have formed a food club and they pick a local resturant every week to eat at.   There are other grass roots movements in the area to save communities.   It won't save everyone but it could save a lot of them.

We've found ourselves all over the place on social media, news web sites and elsewhere.  It's all been word of mouth.

It'll break my heart to see some places I care about go under if that happens.  But neither do any of them want to become the next hot spot because that's a death sentence in more ways than one.

It sucks it really sucks but that's our reality now.  

[jerseygirl]

May 13, 2020 19:43:25 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 13, 2020 16:40:12 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

So Cuomo (or others) just threw up his hands and said back to nursing home is the only choice. Or not just sending back but when it the severe problem was discovered
What about all the empty hotels in NYC? Homeless and released prisoners are being put up in some hotels Empty college dorms? Insist to use Javits or USS Comfort?? YMCAs? Dedicate some nursing homes to only Covid? Surely there were other choices

Disgraceful

He was in a no win situation. Who would take care of the patients in the hotel, if these were people who belonged in s nursing home? If a home was covid only, you were moving all the other patients on short notice. They eventually did that here, but it required a fair amount of time and discussion. A luxury they didn’t have in nyc. It got away from them in ny. They were behind in there decision making, and no doubt made mistakes. Mistakes that may have been foreseen with better planning, like if the feds took it seriously from the beginning, instead of calling it a hoax in late February

So Cuomo’s mistakes really were Trump’s
OK

[pulmonarymd]

May 13, 2020 20:36:27 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

May 13, 2020 19:43:25 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

He was in a no win situation. Who would take care of the patients in the hotel, if these were people who belonged in s nursing home? If a home was covid only, you were moving all the other patients on short notice. They eventually did that here, but it required a fair amount of time and discussion. A luxury they didn’t have in nyc. It got away from them in ny. They were behind in there decision making, and no doubt made mistakes. Mistakes that may have been foreseen with better planning, like if the feds took it seriously from the beginning, instead of calling it a hoax in late February

So Cuomo’s mistakes really were Trump’s
OK

No, you really want to crucify Cuomo. Trump is ultimately responsible, because by his inaction, he put the governors in a tough spot. The pandemic plan was to be enacted at a national level, as that is where all the information should be assembled, and the response could be coordinated. Trump, by ignoring and downplaying the threat, left a vacuum, that needed to be plugged by the states. They were not prepared for it, because the feds did not give them sufficient warning and information. No matter how much ch you want to blame Cuomo, the ultimate failure is trump’s. He set them up to fail due to his lack of leadership, unless you think states should duplicate what the feds do. Want to have to fund that at a state level?

[jerseygirl]

May 13, 2020 22:20:49 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 13, 2020 20:36:27 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

So Cuomo’s mistakes really were Trump’s
OK

No, you really want to crucify Cuomo. Trump is ultimately responsible, because by his inaction, he put the governors in a tough spot. The pandemic plan was to be enacted at a national level, as that is where all the information should be assembled, and the response could be coordinated. Trump, by ignoring and downplaying the threat, left a vacuum, that needed to be plugged by the states. They were not prepared for it, because the feds did not give them sufficient warning and information. No matter how much ch you want to blame Cuomo, the ultimate failure is trump’s. He set them up to fail due to his lack of leadership, unless you think states should duplicate what the feds do. Want to have to fund that at a state level?

Really? If you make an error do you say But my boss thought it wasn’t important so I couldn’t do anything about the problem[br

[Gardening Grandma]

May 13, 2020 22:57:31 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

May 13, 2020 22:20:49 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No, you really want to crucify Cuomo. Trump is ultimately responsible, because by his inaction, he put the governors in a tough spot. The pandemic plan was to be enacted at a national level, as that is where all the information should be assembled, and the response could be coordinated. Trump, by ignoring and downplaying the threat, left a vacuum, that needed to be plugged by the states. They were not prepared for it, because the feds did not give them sufficient warning and information. No matter how much ch you want to blame Cuomo, the ultimate failure is trump’s. He set them up to fail due to his lack of leadership, unless you think states should duplicate what the feds do. Want to have to fund that at a state level?

Really? If you make an error do you say But my boss thought it wasn’t important so I couldn’t do anything about the problem[br

You really go out of your way trying to defend the utter incompetence of this administration. Incompetence that has killed tens of thousands of people. That pretzel position has to be uncomfortable

[pulmonarymd]

May 13, 2020 22:57:31 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

May 13, 2020 22:20:49 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

No, you really want to crucify Cuomo. Trump is ultimately responsible, because by his inaction, he put the governors in a tough spot. The pandemic plan was to be enacted at a national level, as that is where all the information should be assembled, and the response could be coordinated. Trump, by ignoring and downplaying the threat, left a vacuum, that needed to be plugged by the states. They were not prepared for it, because the feds did not give them sufficient warning and information. No matter how much ch you want to blame Cuomo, the ultimate failure is trump’s. He set them up to fail due to his lack of leadership, unless you think states should duplicate what the feds do. Want to have to fund that at a state level?

Really? If you make an error do you say But my boss thought it wasn’t important so I couldn’t do anything about the problem[br

So, if it wasn’t your bosses priority, you are supposed to know he is wrong, and do the job YOU think you should do, not what he thinks is what you should be doing. And you spend money to do it. The contortions you are going through is going to hurt your back