TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on May 6, 2020 19:57:39 GMT -5
Can’t they just keep them a little longer? One person explain it is because they have no room, the little ones are growing up and need to be where the bigger ones are.
Build a bigger place? Wouldn’t that be cheaper and less expensive then putting a bullet into each pig head? Too me that’s seems like a lot of waste when we have people going hungry.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on May 6, 2020 20:02:55 GMT -5
I talked to my friend who is married to a retired cattle rancher...they still live in that part of the country. The pigs and cattle are being deposed of due to the huge back up at the processing plants. So many employees are sick with the virus the plants have been shut down.
These ranchers know exactly what they are doing and why.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 6, 2020 20:16:02 GMT -5
Can’t they just keep them a little longer? One person explain it is because they have no room, the little ones are growing up and need to be where the bigger ones are. Build a bigger place? Wouldn’t that be cheaper and less expensive then putting a bullet into each pig head? Too me that’s seems like a lot of waste when we have people going hungry. They have to keep feeding them. They will get bigger. Ironically, bigger animals actually generate less income... the system is set up for specific size animals, bigger animals present a problem, harder to handle or use. So spend the money to feed them and keep them well... and get less for them... is not a $$ making proposition. Unfortunately. To add building costs to that... ? Really unprofitable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 20:21:55 GMT -5
Because it's an assembly line operation and the younger ones are coming up and the ones that are market ready are supposed to move on. Also, they need to be "harvested" at a pretty precise age/weight. You can't just keep the pigs around another 6 months and expect to get a good price for them anymore and it's not like they are making a ton of profit as it is, cattle are worth much less if they get too big. In fact, some slaughter houses won't even accept them over a certain weight, meanwhile the farmers are pumping expensive feed into them every week and losing more money. So even if building more faciliities to house them was economically feasible which it's not, (just price a 1000 head hog barn sometime) there are also legal issues with adding more buildings and increasing a livestock operation size. In most jurisdictions farmers are permitted for a certain head count.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 20:43:55 GMT -5
Also, remember they're getting insurance payouts for having to euthanize...
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on May 6, 2020 20:48:59 GMT -5
Also after they get so big, the meat isn't as good. You want to butcher them when younger. but mainly have to keep feeding them and that costs with no return. Sadly, it is a business.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 20:54:34 GMT -5
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 7, 2020 7:38:28 GMT -5
Last I heard, my BIL had sold all of his hogs and was holding off on getting baby pigs until he knows there will be a market for them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 9:31:31 GMT -5
(They put animals down with bolts, not bullets. Cheaper and legal.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 15:10:49 GMT -5
The slaughterhouses use bolts, but the farmers are literally going out with a gun shooting and burying them with bobcats and such. It's really traumatizing for some of these farmers too. Many care a lot about their animals and yeah, that sounds kind of strange since they know they're sending them to the slaughter house, but they're not normally the one doing the killing, they load them up on the trucks and that's the end. There has been a lot of news footage lately of hog farmers breaking down in tears over having to do this. It takes a "special" kind of person to work the kill room in a slaughterhouse. That's why the processing plants in MN are opening up with 10-20 people just to help the farmers euthanize.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 7, 2020 15:17:38 GMT -5
The slaughterhouses use bolts, but the farmers are literally going out with a gun shooting and burying them with bobcats and such. It's really traumatizing for some of these farmers too. Many care a lot about their animals and yeah, that sounds kind of strange since they know they're sending them to the slaughter house, but they're not normally the one doing the killing, they load them up on the trucks and that's the end. There has been a lot of news footage lately of hog farmers breaking down in tears over having to do this. It takes a "special" kind of person to work the kill room in a slaughterhouse. That's why the processing plants in MN are opening up with 10-20 people just to help the farmers euthanize. Some friends and I were talking about this the other day. I said I wouldn't mind taking some chickens to eat instead of letting them go to waste, but I couldn't bring myself to kill them. And I have no emotion attachment to them. I'd rather go vegetarian until this is over.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 7, 2020 15:37:33 GMT -5
Cheaper to kill them than continue to feed them. Monetary loss either way.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 7, 2020 15:40:14 GMT -5
So on a simple example, this is how it works (using made up numbers).
A farmer has 1,000 sows. Each sow has 2 litters of 10 piglets per year. So that means the farmer has 20,000 new pigs in the year...plus 1,000 sows. Pigs are typically about a year old when slaughtered, most of that time growing and not needing as much food as a fully grown pig.
Having rooming for 1,000 fully grown pigs and their 20,000 piglets is a lot different than having room for 21,000 fully grown pigs, plus another 20,000 piglets for the year. So now you're building significant buildings, needing significantly more space, significantly more feed, and significantly lower prices on the fully grown pigs...all for a 1 year blip. You'd go broke building more housing, buying more land (because most people aren't just letting land sit there unused and paying for it while producing nothing), and feeding the pigs just to get less money for the pigs in a year.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 7, 2020 15:50:06 GMT -5
The one pig farmer put an ad on FB and probably sold out fast. There are a lot of guys who can do their own processing.
I don't know how that figures with insurance.
There is an emotional toll with death of anything. Anyone who is not bothered is a psychopath or sociopath. Or something I don't have a word for.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 15:51:31 GMT -5
The slaughterhouses use bolts, but the farmers are literally going out with a gun shooting and burying them with bobcats and such. It's really traumatizing for some of these farmers too. Many care a lot about their animals and yeah, that sounds kind of strange since they know they're sending them to the slaughter house, but they're not normally the one doing the killing, they load them up on the trucks and that's the end. There has been a lot of news footage lately of hog farmers breaking down in tears over having to do this. It takes a "special" kind of person to work the kill room in a slaughterhouse. That's why the processing plants in MN are opening up with 10-20 people just to help the farmers euthanize. Some friends and I were talking about this the other day. I said I wouldn't mind taking some chickens to eat instead of letting them go to waste, but I couldn't bring myself to kill them. And I have no emotion attachment to them. I'd rather go vegetarian until this is over. I hate my rooster and can't kill him.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 7, 2020 15:52:03 GMT -5
The one pig farmer put an ad on FB and probably sold out fast. There are a lot of guys who can do their own processing. I don't know how that figures with insurance. There is an emotional toll with death of anything. Anyone who is not bothered is a psychopath or sociopath. Or something I don't have a word for. Anything? I mean maybe we're all nutjobs, but I doubt most people feel that bad about killing plants, most people probably kill bugs just fine, mosquitoes, etc. I think most people are fine with the death of lots of things.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on May 7, 2020 16:00:22 GMT -5
I have killed and processed chickens, it bothers me, but they are a food source and I can do it. It's like I told DD, do not make them pets. We had a couple we kept and she did, those I would not kill. Killing a hog or cow, would have to shoot them, so harder I would think. But again if in a position that I knew that was the only food I had, I would do it. Also dress out fish. I couldn't do it to a dog or cat. Maybe if they were seriously injured and it saved more suffering, don't know haven't been in that position.
You do what you need to do when the time comes. Believe me if comes down to that or no food, I and hubs will do what needs to be done.
If we carried that forward and said people that kill are all sociopaths. Are members of the military, police? I don't believe that, they know what they have to do to protect liberty and maintain an orderly system where people can live without fear.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 7, 2020 16:12:04 GMT -5
I have killed and processed chickens, it bothers me, but they are a food source and I can do it. It's like I told DD, do not make them pets. We had a couple we kept and she did, those I would not kill. Killing a hog or cow, would have to shoot them, so harder I would think. But again if in a position that I knew that was the only food I had, I would do it. Also dress out fish. I couldn't do it to a dog or cat. Maybe if they were seriously injured and it saved more suffering, don't know haven't been in that position. You do what you need to do when the time comes. Believe me if comes down to that or no food, I and hubs will do what needs to be done. If we carried that forward and said people that kill are all sociopaths. Are members of the military, police? I don't believe that, they know what they have to do to protect liberty and maintain an orderly system where people can live without fear. I think the statement was that people who kill without it taking any emotional toll...are sociopaths (or something similar).
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 7, 2020 20:44:00 GMT -5
ND Stock growers association is buying beef from the local producers for the food banks.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 7, 2020 21:28:09 GMT -5
The one pig farmer put an ad on FB and probably sold out fast. There are a lot of guys who can do their own processing. I don't know how that figures with insurance. There is an emotional toll with death of anything. Anyone who is not bothered is a psychopath or sociopath. Or something I don't have a word for. Anything? I mean maybe we're all nutjobs, but I doubt most people feel that bad about killing plants, most people probably kill bugs just fine, mosquitoes, etc. I think most people are fine with the death of lots of things. I think maybe it's the senseless killing of something. Along with the feeling that maybe those lives were 'wasted'. It's one thing to raise pigs for slaughter - with the benefit of feeding other people (and providing a livelyhood.) and quite another thing to slaughter all the animals and to then just bury them. There was no "purpose" for the raising of the pigs, nor their deaths, nor their mortal remains. I do think we all feel an "emotional toll" of a death (if you think about the creature and the death). It's easy to rationalize that it isn't so bad a death - if it serves a purpose (food). The hogs the farmers are killing have lost their "purpose" and the "meaning" for their lives. ON an existential level - that's sad. (has Old Yeller fallen out of the public consciousness??)
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on May 9, 2020 7:14:17 GMT -5
Is this the price we pay for industrialized farming? Are the days of "cheap" food coming to an end? This pandemic has opened the eyes of some people to the price we pay for not having strong local food sourcing. Is it feasible for areas to have production capability to serve their own populations?
Where I live - farmers and producers are unhappy because the government has disallowed any temporary foreign workers from entering the province this year. The premier is kind of no nonsense - he is like - there are lots of people sitting here on unemployment - they can work the fields and in the fishplants. Obviously locals are generally not willing to do this work (thus temp. foreign workers) government is looking at subsidizing wages to a point where people would work. And not just this year but to encourage people to do this type of work in future. So we will see how this experiment goes.
I live in a largely rural province where it is not unusual for people to grow their own food - even in the city a lot of people have vegetable gardens in their back yards. Many people hunt and fish and buy a side of beef from a farmer they know once a year. But this type of lifestyle is largely inaccessible to people in large cities.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 9, 2020 8:13:44 GMT -5
I know this is shining a big ugly light on how much we depend on the illegal work force hidden in plain sight in America. You can't demand the build a wall to keep them out while at the same time hollering at them to go process your meat so you can stock your fridges while you sit comfortably working from home.
You will never see the people who just got laid off from their office jobs working in a meat processing plant or in the fields. The conditions are horrible and basically slavery in all but name. They are naturally going to demand and expect safer, cleaner, better work conditions and with that the price of your food is going to go up.
Either massive reform is going to happen the likes of which we haven't seen since the 1930s when The Jungle was written OR we really need to stop our bitching about illegals because our economy clearly grinds to a halt without them.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on May 9, 2020 8:54:52 GMT -5
The Smithfield pork plant in Sioux Falls, SD has over 40 languages spoken by the employees working the line.
I do not doubt that there may be an illegal worker in the bunch, but by and large those employees are fresh immigrants from somewhere other than Mexico.
The turkey processing plant in Huron, SD is staffed mainly by Asians who are in the country legally.
The assumption that all packing plant workers are of Hispanic origin is false, at least here in the plains states. My experience living in packing plant communities, is that the Hispanic workers will work the packing plant for exactly one generation. Their children are encouraged to seek education and good jobs to support their parents as they age. Our children went to public school with about a 30% Hispanic population, many of which had parents who worked the beef plant. These children grew up to go to college, own their own businesses and have successful careers.
The human body will not hold up to packing plant work for 20 or 30 years.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 9, 2020 9:04:20 GMT -5
Don't assume everyone who isn't from Mexico is legal. DH worked with a lot of people who aren't here legally from other countries mostly Southeast Asia and Sudan around here. Mostly visa expiration but there were other stories too.
DH has some stories about how one of the local plants here treat production/kill floor employees. Those that have options quit after a few weeks for something better. The higher you go up the ladder the better you're treated (and also likely to be white around here) but the people on the production floor and kill floor. . .disposable.
I'm sure not everyone in that plant thinks that way but he said the over all company vibe was these people are here to make money, screw their well being. It was a pretty open secret, they've been busted and fined numerous times, at least twice in the 5 years DH worked there.
It's a real problem that needs to be fixed but it's going to require that people accept higher prices and likely as a result reduce consumption in meat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 10:41:59 GMT -5
Most of the Hispanic migrants aren't Mexican either. They mostly come from Central American war zones.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on May 9, 2020 10:57:36 GMT -5
The slaughterhouses use bolts, but the farmers are literally going out with a gun shooting and burying them with bobcats and such. It's really traumatizing for some of these farmers too. Many care a lot about their animals and yeah, that sounds kind of strange since they know they're sending them to the slaughter house, but they're not normally the one doing the killing, they load them up on the trucks and that's the end. There has been a lot of news footage lately of hog farmers breaking down in tears over having to do this. It takes a "special" kind of person to work the kill room in a slaughterhouse. That's why the processing plants in MN are opening up with 10-20 people just to help the farmers euthanize. Growing up with hunters, and raising some food animals. I can say there is a big difference emotionally when you are killing for a purpose, in this case food vs the death going to waste.
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