GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Apr 20, 2020 22:50:19 GMT -5
I am white and I work essential retail but very thankfully was furloughed.
Before I was furloughed, I was weighing that very question and decided I didn’t make enough to sacrifice my life for my employer. Don’t get me wrong, I like (most of) my job and my co-workers. And, I know that there is going to be stiff competition for jobs when things ease up and unemployment runs out so I didn’t want to quit. I know I am blessed to be tucked away at home right now. In the meantime, I honor those still working by staying the F at home, ordering online, and tipping delivery folks really well.
But, I may have to go back in a couple of weeks for our BUSY season during which the checkout lines wind through the property and we sell hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise in a single day. No one can stay safe in that situation. If push comes to shove with my employer...
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nittanycheme
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Post by nittanycheme on Apr 21, 2020 5:15:40 GMT -5
I expect the racial makeup of the essential "public" workers (i.e., grocery stores, gas stations, etc.) also very much depends on where you live. Where I live, while there are a lot of minorities, they basically live in the city that is the county seat in our county, and the suburbs are pretty white. Therefore, the work force at our grocery stores, etc., where I shop is also pretty white. However, if I would go into the few grocery stores that are in our county seat, most of the workers are minorities because that is majority of population there. In fact, I think that there is only one grocery store left in that area as the other one was closed. There are mini-mart type shops, and a farmers market, but overall not a lot of choice on where to shop. Mostly, I think a lot of people from the city take the bus to the stores in the suburbs. Even more risking themselves to get food.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 21, 2020 8:38:11 GMT -5
So it seems we have decided to test how bad poor people need a paycheck and how many of them would be willing to sacrifice their lives for one? Because let’s be honest, besides your Dr’s/nurses etc... all the other people that need to keep showing up for their jobs happen to be in manual jobs or service jobs that are mostly occupied by black and brown folks. Add that to another reason why COVID is killing disproportionate amount of blacks on top of all the others. But my company is finding out quite of few still value their lives and are saying “fuck” the paycheck. I will be broke but I will be alive and broke! So this week I started noticing that are trucks were coming later and later or half of what we ordered. Per conference call today we were told stop bitching and be thankful. Because it will get worse they think and they may have to cut back on the amount of trucks we get, if you used to get 5 trucks now you may only get 3 or 4 if you are lucky. Or trucks will be later... Because it is not just having 5-10 cases of COVID positives associates that is the problem, it is the other 100-150 associates in the warehouse that are saying “fuck” this and no longer wanting to work at that warehouse once they found out. I could have told them, we had 1 case of COVID at our store and lost 12 employees (2 quit and the others filed for leave of absence) the day HR made it known. Not all service industry folks agree they are dispensable and should be sacrificed in the name of keeping the economy going. Are they? Here's a breakdown of race in occupation: www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htmIt's also not really an issue of "paycheck or life" for MOST folks. Most people won't die from COVID, even if they get infected. And as it stands now, most people will likely be infected anyways...so the worry should not be "how can I keep from getting infected?" it is "how can we slow the spread so when I get infected I can get medical care?". Seems to continue to be this fundamental misunderstanding of what the precautions are meant to do...it's not meant to keep people from ever getting infected...it is to slow it down.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 21, 2020 9:15:41 GMT -5
Let's do some math. If we fling the door wide open and 1/3red of Americans get infected (before we get a vaccine) - that is 100 million people. There are reports that some people never have symptoms, but also reports from some people who are absolutely miserable for a week or two. So, some portion of those infected are going to be very sick, but not die. That matters. Let's say 10% of people will be miserable. That is 10 million people. And let's keep with the 2% death rate. Because 2% is such a small number. 2% is sacrificial. 2% doesn't matter. But 2% would be 2 million people. That is like 1 person for every 165 people in America (someone check my decimal placement there). I bet everyone knows 1,000 people. You would likely know more than 5 people that would die. That is a lot of people. I think I know like 5 people who have died in the past 10 years, and it makes me crazy. Losing 5 or more people in the next 18 months seems insane to me.
In comparison, suicide rates do go up during recession. But even if they triple, that is 100,000 people dead. Which leaves the question of how many people will die from recession based problems (hunger, homelessness, inability to afford medical care, etc.) I don't know that number. But, if we offer more financial help, can we reduce that? Can we use the great wealth of the USA to keep that number to a minimum, instead of killing 2M people and harming 10M just for kicks?
98% recovery sounds great, but 2% is a massive loss. So, stop saying "just 2%" without looking around your life and doing the math.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 21, 2020 9:25:35 GMT -5
Let's do some math. If we fling the door wide open and 1/3red of Americans get infected (before we get a vaccine) - that is 100 million people. There are reports that some people never have symptoms, but also reports from some people who are absolutely miserable for a week or two. So, some portion of those infected are going to be very sick, but not die. That matters. Let's say 10% of people will be miserable. That is 10 million people. And let's keep with the 2% death rate. Because 2% is such a small number. 2% is sacrificial. 2% doesn't matter. But 2% would be 2 million people. That is like 1 person for every 165 people in America (someone check my decimal placement there). I bet everyone knows 1,000 people. You would likely know more than 5 people that would die. That is a lot of people. I think I know like 5 people who have died in the past 10 years, and it makes me crazy. Losing 5 or more people in the next 18 months seems insane to me. In comparison, suicide rates do go up during recession. But even if they triple, that is 100,000 people dead. Which leaves the question of how many people will die from recession based problems (hunger, homelessness, inability to afford medical care, etc.) I don't know that number. But, if we offer more financial help, can we reduce that? Can we use the great wealth of the USA to keep that number to a minimum, instead of killing 2M people and harming 10M just for kicks? 98% recovery sounds great, but 2% is a massive loss. So, stop saying "just 2%" without looking around your life and doing the math. If you looked around your life and "did the math", then nobody would ever do anything though right? Would you advise we should drive cars if you had to look around and know someone in your life was likely to die in one? Should we outlaw cigarettes, alcohol, fast food...someone in your life is likely to die from it. Also to be clear, the death rate is much higher in older folks than younger folks with COVID. So knowing 5 folks who have died in 10 years tells me you probably aren't knowing a lot of people who are 80+ in that 1000. The annual death rate for men in the US who are 75-84 is 1 in 15 (so 6.7%). It's also higher in people with underlying health conditions. So a large (but obviously not all) portion of the people who would die...are people who would likely die in the next year or two anyways. It's not necessarily likely that you'll know 5 who die out of the 1000 you know...because unless you know a ton of old folks with bad health (which most of us likely won't), you don't know the population who is most likely to die. It's not a random distribution of deaths.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 21, 2020 9:35:04 GMT -5
Let's do some math. If we fling the door wide open and 1/3red of Americans get infected (before we get a vaccine) - that is 100 million people. There are reports that some people never have symptoms, but also reports from some people who are absolutely miserable for a week or two. So, some portion of those infected are going to be very sick, but not die. That matters. Let's say 10% of people will be miserable. That is 10 million people. And let's keep with the 2% death rate. Because 2% is such a small number. 2% is sacrificial. 2% doesn't matter. But 2% would be 2 million people. That is like 1 person for every 165 people in America (someone check my decimal placement there). I bet everyone knows 1,000 people. You would likely know more than 5 people that would die. That is a lot of people. I think I know like 5 people who have died in the past 10 years, and it makes me crazy. Losing 5 or more people in the next 18 months seems insane to me. In comparison, suicide rates do go up during recession. But even if they triple, that is 100,000 people dead. Which leaves the question of how many people will die from recession based problems (hunger, homelessness, inability to afford medical care, etc.) I don't know that number. But, if we offer more financial help, can we reduce that? Can we use the great wealth of the USA to keep that number to a minimum, instead of killing 2M people and harming 10M just for kicks? 98% recovery sounds great, but 2% is a massive loss. So, stop saying "just 2%" without looking around your life and doing the math. If you looked around your life and "did the math", then nobody would ever do anything though right? Would you advise we should drive cars if you had to look around and know someone in your life was likely to die in one? Should we outlaw cigarettes, alcohol, fast food...someone in your life is likely to die from it. Also to be clear, the death rate is much higher in older folks than younger folks with COVID. So knowing 5 folks who have died in 10 years tells me you probably aren't knowing a lot of people who are 80+ in that 1000. The annual death rate for men in the US who are 75-84 is 1 in 15 (so 6.7%). It's also higher in people with underlying health conditions. So a large (but obviously not all) portion of the people who would die...are people who would likely die in the next year or two anyways. It's not necessarily likely that you'll know 5 who die out of the 1000 you know...because unless you know a ton of old folks with bad health (which most of us likely won't), you don't know the population who is most likely to die. It's not a random distribution of deaths. 35,000 people die in car accidents per year. I have done the math. I know that driving a car is the most dangerous thing my family does in any given day. But 35,000 is a much smaller number than 2M. I believe about half the deaths are in people over 70. So, that means you statistically would know 3 people who are under 70 who would die. Since we know that people over 70 don't matter, and we don't really care about them, knowing 3 viable people is still a lot.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 21, 2020 9:44:38 GMT -5
Ive read plenty of articles referring to studies showing minorities are disproportionately dying from COVID, especially in the larger cities.
I'm not sure why Carl is being jumped on for this. He didn't say white people don't die from COVID.
ETA: In NYC and Detroit, it was noted that many of the victims worked for public transit authorities, and the employees skew mostly minority.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 10:02:45 GMT -5
Ive read plenty of articles referring to studies showing minorities are disproportionately dying from COVID, especially in the larger cities. I'm not sure why Carl is being jumped on for this. He didn't say white people don't die from COVID. ETA: In NYC and Detroit, it was noted that many of the victims worked for public transit authorities, and the employees skew mostly minority. He's getting "jumped" (but not really) because he implies that minorities are being offered up as sacrifices, turning this into a racial issue. It really isn't.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 21, 2020 10:04:50 GMT -5
Ive read plenty of articles referring to studies showing minorities are disproportionately dying from COVID, especially in the larger cities. I'm not sure why Carl is being jumped on for this. He didn't say white people don't die from COVID. ETA: In NYC and Detroit, it was noted that many of the victims worked for public transit authorities, and the employees skew mostly minority. He's getting "jumped" (but not really) because he implies that minorities are being offered up as sacrifices, turning this into a racial issue. It really isn't. And the statement that most people in those jobs are black and brown, and they really aren't. I'm not sure he's really being jumped on. He made a statement that was broad, and isn't really true broadly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 10:05:23 GMT -5
Ive read plenty of articles referring to studies showing minorities are disproportionately dying from COVID, especially in the larger cities. I'm not sure why Carl is being jumped on for this. He didn't say white people don't die from COVID. ETA: In NYC and Detroit, it was noted that many of the victims worked for public transit authorities, and the employees skew mostly minority. He's getting "jumped" (but not really) because he implies that minorities are being offered up as sacrifices, turning this into a racial issue. It really isn't. Exactly.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 21, 2020 10:06:13 GMT -5
I agree that we shouldn't be jumping on Carl for this but also think it isn't just a matter of "a paycheck in exchange for my life." There is a whole lot more to the fact that more minorities are dying from the disease. Unfortunately, more minorities live in poverty and that fact is probably killing them more than working a service type job. Some lack running water for proper hygiene and/or don't have the resources for proper cleaning products, vitamins, decent meals, etc; therefore, they are already in poor health.
Another aspect is that many have extended family members living with them so even if the younger people in the house are not showing signs of the illness they are likely to pass it along to an older family member.
It doesn't simply boil down to a paycheck in exchange for my life. In fact, without proper resources to take care of yourself you are more likely to die from the disease. I think instead of just up and quitting your job you should be asking questions such as: *How likely am I to die from this
*Do I have the resources to take care of myself and my family for 18-24 months because being homeless and starving is not going to help my family or myself survive this disease. *What can I do to not spread this to those family that are most vulnerable *How likely am I to be able to find another job in a depressed economy.
The bottom line is that this disease is not going to magically disappear. People seem to forget that we are only trying to slow the spread. We don't want to over burden our healthcare system. Anytime you walk outside the house you are risking exposure.
Unless you have the resources to hunker down for 18-24 months without any form of unemployment (which most people don't) then you have to make the best out of a horrible situation. Personally, if my choice is being homeless with no healthcare and possibly starving on the streets then I will take my chance with the virus.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 21, 2020 10:10:07 GMT -5
... It's also not really an issue of "paycheck or life" for MOST folks. Most people won't die from COVID, even if they get infected. And as it stands now, most people will likely be infected anyways...so the worry should not be "how can I keep from getting infected?" it is "how can we slow the spread so when I get infected I can get medical care?". Seems to continue to be this fundamental misunderstanding of what the precautions are meant to do...it's not meant to keep people from ever getting infected...it is to slow it down. I'm going to quibble with you on this. There is a societal and individual side to this. On the personal level, I think of it as one big game of tag. A bunch of people are "it". If you are tagged you will also become "it" for a while. Everyone who is "it" will either die or will recover from being "it". There is the possibility the game will end when there is a vaccine. So it is not a "worry" but a personal challenge of "how can I keep from getting tagged?" while understanding I might not successfully meet that challenge in the end. In the bigger picture, as you point out, it is beneficial for medical care reasons for each of us to be successful as long as we can be.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 21, 2020 10:17:52 GMT -5
If you looked around your life and "did the math", then nobody would ever do anything though right? Would you advise we should drive cars if you had to look around and know someone in your life was likely to die in one? Should we outlaw cigarettes, alcohol, fast food...someone in your life is likely to die from it. Also to be clear, the death rate is much higher in older folks than younger folks with COVID. So knowing 5 folks who have died in 10 years tells me you probably aren't knowing a lot of people who are 80+ in that 1000. The annual death rate for men in the US who are 75-84 is 1 in 15 (so 6.7%). It's also higher in people with underlying health conditions. So a large (but obviously not all) portion of the people who would die...are people who would likely die in the next year or two anyways. It's not necessarily likely that you'll know 5 who die out of the 1000 you know...because unless you know a ton of old folks with bad health (which most of us likely won't), you don't know the population who is most likely to die. It's not a random distribution of deaths. 35,000 people die in car accidents per year. I have done the math. I know that driving a car is the most dangerous thing my family does in any given day. But 35,000 is a much smaller number than 2M. I believe about half the deaths are in people over 70. So, that means you statistically would know 3 people who are under 70 who would die. Since we know that people over 70 don't matter, and we don't really care about them, knowing 3 viable people is still a lot. Is it? There are about 2.8 million people who die per year in general. So think of the people you know who died last year, you'd have less than 2x that number this year with another 2 million deaths (not counting that some of those people would also likely have died, because people with underlying conditions are hit harder). Having 3 people you're close with and who you'd attend their funeral might be a lot...I'm not sure 3 people you "know" as in "have heard of and know their name" is a lot. I "know" over 1000, but if you told me 3 of them died 5 years ago I wouldn't have known the difference. So your statement that you know 5 people who died in the last 10 years either isn't factually correct, or you know less than 1000 people, or you'd be looking at .5 deaths/year from people you know and this would mean you might know ONE person who would die from COVID. In terms of context, if 2 million died, that would mean about 2x as many people this year as last if we assume it's randomly distributed (which it isn't, probably closer to 50% more people than last year given health/age stratifications). That would help account for the population you actually know (age, health, etc).
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 21, 2020 10:20:07 GMT -5
I agree that we shouldn't be jumping on on Carl for this but also think it isn't just a matter of "a paycheck in exchange for my life." There is a whole lot more to the fact that more minorities are dying from the disease. Unfortunately, more minorities live in poverty and that fact is probably killing them more than working a service type job. Some lack running water for proper hygiene and/or don't have the resources for proper cleaning products, vitamins, decent meals, etc; therefore, they are already in poor health.
Another aspect is that many have extended family members living with them so even if the younger people in the house are not showing signs of the illness they are likely to pass it along to an older family member.
It doesn't simply boil down to a paycheck in exchange for my life. In fact, without proper resources to take care of yourself you are more likely to die from the disease. I think instead of just up and quitting your job you should be asking questions such as:
*How likely am I to die from this
*Do I have the resources to take care of myself and my family for 18-24 months because being homeless and starving is not going to help my family or myself survive this disease. *What can I do to not spread this to those family that are most vulnerable *How likely am I to be able to find another job in a depressed economy.
The bottom line is that this disease is not going to magically disappear. People seem to forget that we are only trying to slow the spread. We don't want to over burden our healthcare system. Anytime you walk outside the house you are risking exposure.
Unless you have the resources to hunker down for 18-24 months without any form of unemployment (which most people don't) then you have to make the best out of horrible situation. Personally, if my choice is being homeless with no healthcare and possibly starving on the streets then I will take my chance with the virus.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 21, 2020 10:25:55 GMT -5
Ive read plenty of articles referring to studies showing minorities are disproportionately dying from COVID, especially in the larger cities. I'm not sure why Carl is being jumped on for this. He didn't say white people don't die from COVID. ETA: In NYC and Detroit, it was noted that many of the victims worked for public transit authorities, and the employees skew mostly minority. There is a huge race component, we're having the same situation with Omaha right now. The poorest part of the city and most dependent on public transportation is largely minority. This pandemic is making us face a whole lot of ugly that in normal times we choose to look away from. That being said I think the paranoia is getting out of control. Quitting your job unless you have a major source of passive income just compounds the problem. On top of that there are A LOT of us that are feeling the strain of being considered "essential employees". Omaha is pretty much all "essential" because we're six degrees separated from agriculture and supply chains. It's not just grocery store workers or box store workers that are expected to keep working right now. It sucks it really sucks and I have a lot of empathy for people's concerns but I am not going to feel sorry for you. I remind myself I am lucky to have a job that pays good and has excellent health insurance because it's quite possibly we may need it. I quit so I can live, what happens if I get it before I can either secure another job or get on medicaid? Now I'm REALLY screwed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 10:31:03 GMT -5
I don't think it's a matter of race, but more of being lower income.
My DS, and millions of others, risk excessive exposure daily for $11 an hour and zero benefits because this country doesn't value their lives by offering them any of the alternatives those who are higher income have.
The brown folks working the slaughter houses and in the rest of agriculture are risking their lives for a lot less but again out of desperation.
It's great to tell lower-income people to go work so they don't starve and have healthcare (that other people get through their employers...) but understand they aren't working by choice. Some may be, but many are doing so because they are forced to. If you quit for your health, you don't qualify for UI...
As for healthcare, DS has been applying via the Marketplace for 4 months and they have yet to give him a policy. They claim he has to get a denial letter from medicaid before he can buy coverage. He can't get medicaid to respond to do so. He has no coverage.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 21, 2020 10:36:18 GMT -5
I don't think it's a matter of race, but more of being lower income. My DS, and millions of others, risk excessive exposure daily for $11 an hour and zero benefits because this country doesn't value their lives by offering them any of the alternatives those who are higher income have.The brown folks working the slaughter houses and in the rest of agriculture are risking their lives for a lot less but again out of desperation. It's great to tell lower-income people to go work so they don't starve and have healthcare (that other people get through their employers...) but understand they aren't working by choice. Some may be, but many are doing so because they are forced to. If you quit for your health, you don't qualify for UI... As for healthcare, DS has been applying via the Marketplace for 4 months and they have yet to give him a policy. They claim he has to get a denial letter from medicaid before he can buy coverage. He can't get medicaid to respond to do so. He has no coverage. What alternatives? Most higher income alternatives are working from home. How are people going to stock shelves from home? How are people going to run a check register from home? It's not as if the country isn't "offering" the alternatives because they don't value those lives. Those jobs literally cannot be done from home.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 21, 2020 10:39:51 GMT -5
I agree that we shouldn't be jumping on Carl for this but also think it isn't just a matter of "a paycheck in exchange for my life." There is a whole lot more to the fact that more minorities are dying from the disease. Unfortunately, more minorities live in poverty and that fact is probably killing them more than working a service type job. Some lack running water for proper hygiene and/or don't have the resources for proper cleaning products, vitamins, decent meals, etc; therefore, they are already in poor health.
Another aspect is that many have extended family members living with them so even if the younger people in the house are not showing signs of the illness they are likely to pass it along to an older family member.
It doesn't simply boil down to a paycheck in exchange for my life. In fact, without proper resources to take care of yourself you are more likely to die from the disease. Cause and effect?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 21, 2020 10:41:41 GMT -5
35,000 people die in car accidents per year. I have done the math. I know that driving a car is the most dangerous thing my family does in any given day. But 35,000 is a much smaller number than 2M. I believe about half the deaths are in people over 70. So, that means you statistically would know 3 people who are under 70 who would die. Since we know that people over 70 don't matter, and we don't really care about them, knowing 3 viable people is still a lot. Is it? There are about 2.8 million people who die per year in general. So think of the people you know who died last year, you'd have less than 2x that number this year with another 2 million deaths (not counting that some of those people would also likely have died, because people with underlying conditions are hit harder). Having 3 people you're close with and who you'd attend their funeral might be a lot...I'm not sure 3 people you "know" as in "have heard of and know their name" is a lot. I "know" over 1000, but if you told me 3 of them died 5 years ago I wouldn't have known the difference. So your statement that you know 5 people who died in the last 10 years either isn't factually correct, or you know less than 1000 people, or you'd be looking at .5 deaths/year from people you know and this would mean you might know ONE person who would die from COVID. In terms of context, if 2 million died, that would mean about 2x as many people this year as last if we assume it's randomly distributed (which it isn't, probably closer to 50% more people than last year given health/age stratifications). That would help account for the population you actually know (age, health, etc). 70% of deaths are people over 70 YO. So, given that I disproportionally know people that are younger than 70, it isnt a straight shot. People under 70 would go from 850k deaths to 1.85M deaths - more than 2x.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 21, 2020 10:54:14 GMT -5
I don't think it's a matter of race, but more of being lower income. My DS, and millions of others, risk excessive exposure daily for $11 an hour and zero benefits because this country doesn't value their lives by offering them any of the alternatives those who are higher income have. The brown folks working the slaughter houses and in the rest of agriculture are risking their lives for a lot less but again out of desperation. It's great to tell lower-income people to go work so they don't starve and have healthcare (that other people get through their employers...) but understand they aren't working by choice. Some may be, but many are doing so because they are forced to. If you quit for your health, you don't qualify for UI... As for healthcare, DS has been applying via the Marketplace for 4 months and they have yet to give him a policy. They claim he has to get a denial letter from medicaid before he can buy coverage. He can't get medicaid to respond to do so. He has no coverage. My fiancé isn't low income but his business is essential and he and his guys are out working every day. Oh, and if he quits he not only loses his business but he doesn't qualify for UI. And then he also can't afford his healthcare, car payment, etc. It isn't just the people making $11/hr that have to go to work everyday. The company that I work for is also essential. I'm fortunate that I can work from home and only go in two days a week. But the delivery guys literally can't work from home. How exactly could you work from home if you were a delivery person? I think we can agree that food is essential. how can we get food if everyone that worked in a grocery store was told that they could work from home? Who is going to receive the inventor, stock the shelves, check out orders? We all talk about the doctors and nurses but what about the other moving parts of a hospital that are required to keep it operating? What about dietary? Janitorial? Maintenance? They are not paid like doctors or nurses but they are definitely essential to keeping hospitals running. How can they work from home? To say that we do not value the lives of these people because they can't work from home like I can is just crazy. My job can be done from home and theirs can't. If I couldn't work from home I would have to go to the office or quit. My company isn't going to allow me to take UI just because I'm afraid of getting sick.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 21, 2020 11:03:21 GMT -5
Ive read plenty of articles referring to studies showing minorities are disproportionately dying from COVID, especially in the larger cities. I'm not sure why Carl is being jumped on for this. He didn't say white people don't die from COVID. ETA: In NYC and Detroit, it was noted that many of the victims worked for public transit authorities, and the employees skew mostly minority. all the other people that need to keep showing up for their jobs happen to be in manual jobs or service jobs that are mostly occupied by black and brown folks.
No one jumped on Carl. But when you make a blanket statement that people that most of the jobs that people have to keep showing up for are "mostly occupied by black and brown folks", you are going to get pushback because it just isn't true. Perhaps in the larger cities but in the larger cities, white people are the minority.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 21, 2020 11:07:43 GMT -5
Is it? There are about 2.8 million people who die per year in general. So think of the people you know who died last year, you'd have less than 2x that number this year with another 2 million deaths (not counting that some of those people would also likely have died, because people with underlying conditions are hit harder). Having 3 people you're close with and who you'd attend their funeral might be a lot...I'm not sure 3 people you "know" as in "have heard of and know their name" is a lot. I "know" over 1000, but if you told me 3 of them died 5 years ago I wouldn't have known the difference. So your statement that you know 5 people who died in the last 10 years either isn't factually correct, or you know less than 1000 people, or you'd be looking at .5 deaths/year from people you know and this would mean you might know ONE person who would die from COVID. In terms of context, if 2 million died, that would mean about 2x as many people this year as last if we assume it's randomly distributed (which it isn't, probably closer to 50% more people than last year given health/age stratifications). That would help account for the population you actually know (age, health, etc). 70% of deaths are people over 70 YO. So, given that I disproportionally know people that are younger than 70, it isnt a straight shot. People under 70 would go from 850k deaths to 1.85M deaths - more than 2x. You're right it's not a straight shot. It's impossible to control for how many people of an age you know, or people who have health issues, etc. But then that would also mean other people are going to see less than 2x the amount of people die then. I'm also going to GUESS that on the flip side of the person dying...younger healthier people probably have a lot more folks who know them...and older sicker people probably have fewer folks who know them. That means the people most likely to be in that 1000 are probably the people least likely (but still some chance) of dying. Mostly, I'm trying to put some perspective on what are already current death rates (much like when 9/11 happened and people were talking about such a massive loss of life...and the actual deaths were barely a blip on the chart...this would be more than a blip obviously but it's not actually that much of a one-time difference from the annual death rate).
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NoNamePerson
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Is There Anybody OUT There?
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Post by NoNamePerson on Apr 21, 2020 11:09:35 GMT -5
Holly crap. Now I am really confused. For the longest time I thought this was a "democrat or republican disease" depending on how you voted. Now it is a "racist" disease. Next thing it will be biased as to whether your own a dog or a cat
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mary2029
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Post by mary2029 on Apr 21, 2020 11:24:31 GMT -5
Holly crap. Now I am really confused. For the longest time I thought this was a "democrat or republican disease" depending on how you voted. Now it is a "racist" disease. Next thing it will be biased as to whether your own a dog or a cat It is... cats can become infected. link; link
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 21, 2020 11:25:52 GMT -5
Holly crap. Now I am really confused. For the longest time I thought this was a "democrat or republican disease" depending on how you voted. Now it is a "racist" disease. Next thing it will be biased as to whether your own a dog or a cat It is... cats can become infected. link; linkThank God...I have dogs!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 21, 2020 11:55:20 GMT -5
I don't think it's a matter of race, but more of being lower income. My DS, and millions of others, risk excessive exposure daily for $11 an hour and zero benefits because this country doesn't value their lives by offering them any of the alternatives those who are higher income have.The brown folks working the slaughter houses and in the rest of agriculture are risking their lives for a lot less but again out of desperation. It's great to tell lower-income people to go work so they don't starve and have healthcare (that other people get through their employers...) but understand they aren't working by choice. Some may be, but many are doing so because they are forced to. If you quit for your health, you don't qualify for UI... As for healthcare, DS has been applying via the Marketplace for 4 months and they have yet to give him a policy. They claim he has to get a denial letter from medicaid before he can buy coverage. He can't get medicaid to respond to do so. He has no coverage. I work in a laboratory in an essential company. Please enlighten me on what alternatives I have. I don't work by choice either, I have bills to pay just like everyone else. Nebraska will not approve UE or any other type of benefit if I were to quit my job over this. I carry our health insurance. If I quit it would be 30 days before coverage kicked in under DH's employer. Corona shows up in two weeks. While I may be tempted to gamble with my health I would never gamble with the kids'. So yeah, I don't have a lot of options but to work right now either.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
Senior Associate
"How you win matters." Ender, Ender's Game
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Apr 21, 2020 11:59:10 GMT -5
A couple random thoughts:
1. The population of essential workers is comprised of folks who make minimum wage all the way through to folks making at least mid-6 figures. I believe this population is weighted heavily toward the lower income end in terms of sheer numbers. Folks on the high end can presumably actually afford to choose to walk away; folks in the lower income end not so much. Both ends face the same question, they just have different choices.
2. One problem with Hoops’ numbers regarding infection and serious illness and death is that, while Covid-19 is, in fact, killing more folks over 70, we don’t really know if that is because of the close living conditions and poor testing in nursing homes or a simple pre-disposition? Because it is also true, though, that there is an alarming number of healthy young people experiencing serious illness from the virus and succumbing to it or its complications (cytokine storms, blood clots!!, cardiac damage). Since we have no proven treatment/cure/vaccine and no way to predict how sick any of us will be from the virus, it’s not accurate to talk in blind numbers. One of those 10 million seriously ill folks could be any one — likely more!! — of us and/or our family members. Any one or more of us or our family members could end up with lifelong respiratory issues. Look around the board today — how many of us won’t be here in a month/3 months/6 months/year because the virus kills us before treatments or a vaccine are proven? When you condense it all into simple numbers you risk losing true perspective on the toll.
3. Don’t compare the risk of catching this virus to car accidents and other preventable deaths. There is no way to prevent infection from Covid-19, only delay one’s infection and pray you’re in the 80% group who recover easily and without long term health issues.
All of the above gives those of us safely at home no right to diminish the threat essential workers are facing — regardless of race.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 21, 2020 12:21:03 GMT -5
The other thing that people who downplay this because on 2% die, is they are not looking at the whole picture. It has been estimated that survivors who had severe disease will live with permanent lung damage as a result. Estimates at high as 60% of those with severe disease will have long term issues with breathing. Now, that may be short of breath with stairs, or it may be more significant. No one knows the answer, but the thinking is based on our experience with other forms of lung injury. So, there will likely be a group of people larger than those that die who will have chronic issues. It annoys me how many people are acting it is no big deal if you do not die
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Apr 21, 2020 12:24:10 GMT -5
Holly crap. Now I am really confused. For the longest time I thought this was a "democrat or republican disease" depending on how you voted. Now it is a "racist" disease. Next thing it will be biased as to whether your own a dog or a cat It is... cats can become infected. link; linkSo can Dogs. Sorry Miss Tequila Hopefully it will change to the type of dirt a person uses to plant their flowers in ?? Or maybe to which way the wind blows or the rain comes down? Or wind blowing rain sideways!! Ok, I'll shut up for now
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 21, 2020 12:24:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't make the presumption that those making six figures have the option to walk away from their jobs either. We are talking about possibly 2 years before a vaccine is available and then having to look for work in a depressed economy. Even when jobs start to come back you will be up against the other 20-30% of people out there looking for work. If someone walks away they better be prepared to not have work for a minimum of 2-3 years. Not many people can do that, especially if they have a family to feed.
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