How will coronavirus change the world?

[teen persuasion]

BBC: How will coronavirus change the world?


DH told me about this article, but it also is reminiscent of Cuomo's comments today about looking to the future, to how we use this crisis to steer the changes that come afterward.

[Ava]

I doubt we'll see any significant changes unless the current situation lasts for a couple of years, and I don't think that will happen.

It will bring a recession and maybe even a depression, but we have recovered from those before.

[Tennesseer]

Good read.  Thanks.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I'll read it, but have not done so yet. I think that there will be a profound change in how we do business. Travel and expensive meeting venues will no longer seem necessary. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

oh- and it will be de rigeur to stock at least a year's supply of tp

[justme]

Apr 1, 2020 20:31:38 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I'll read it, but have not done so yet. I think that there will be a profound change in how we do business. Travel and expensive meeting venues will no longer seem necessary. 

I think it'll stop some meeting venues for internal meetings but I don't think it'll stop a lot of the big conferences. There's just too much you lose virtual - assuming they can figure out a way for the big ones to even be virtual. The huge conference I go to always has problems with the virtual machines they use in person online would be a clusterfuck. Not to mention other aspects that would be hard to manage virtually.

[teen persuasion]

The dominant idea of the current system we live in is that “exchange value” is the same thing as “use value”. Basically, people will spend money on the things that they want or need, and this act of spending money tells us something about how much they value its “use”. This is why markets are seen as the best way to run society. They allow you to adapt, and are flexible enough to match up productivity capacity with use value.

What Covid-19 is throwing into sharp relief is just how false our beliefs about markets are. Around the world, governments fear that critical systems will be disrupted or overloaded: supply chains, social care, but principally healthcare. There are lots of contributing factors to this. But let's take two.

First, it is quite hard to make money from many of the most essential societal services. This is in part because a major driver of profits is labour productivity growth: doing more with fewer people. People are a big cost factor in many businesses, especially those that rely on personal interactions, like healthcare. Consequently, productivity growth in the healthcare sector tends to be lower than the rest of the economy, so its costs go up faster than average.

Second, jobs in many critical services aren’t those that tend to be highest valued in society. Many of the best paid jobs only exist to facilitate exchanges: to make money. They serve no wider purpose to society.

The article put into words many vague feelings I had about the "worth" of different professions. Social distancing rules about "essential services" has turned things on their head.

[deadeyedick]

Countries will no longer rely solely on China for the supply of medical equipment and pharmaceuticals. Not because of the origin of the virus so much as the disruption to the supply chain. It’s ok for China to me a major trading partner, but each country must produce enough of what will they need to survive a global emergency.

[steff]

Apr 1, 2020 20:32:10 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

oh- and it will be de rigeur to stock at least a year's supply of tp

This has kicked in a "prepper" mentality in my house & I'm not a fan, but I'm admittedly in the same mindset.  Gotta stock/store as much as I can now just in case. 

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Apr 1, 2020 23:27:47 GMT -5 deadeyedick said:

Countries will no longer rely solely on China for the supply of medical equipment and pharmaceuticals. Not because of the origin of the virus so much as the disruption to the supply chain. It’s ok for China to me a major trading partner, but each country must produce enough of what will they need to survive a global emergency.

Absolutely true. However, the almighty dollar and higher profit is primarily the only thing important to business, therefore products will still be manufactured in places where labor costs are lower.

Humanity tends to forget past events. I believe there will be short term changes, but long term I think we’ll return to the status quo.

[oped]

On Monday this country sold tons of PPE to other countries rather than at home... We haven’t forgotten the almighty dollar yet...

I do think there will be more of a push to solve health care.... this demonstrates how lack of access to care can impact us all. And later bills will come due for treatment and it will be a second wave of economic impact.

[happyhoix]

Apr 2, 2020 6:39:40 GMT -5 oped said:

On Monday this country sold tons of PPE to other countries rather than at home... We haven’t forgotten the almighty dollar yet...

I do think there will be more of a push to solve health care.... this demonstrates how lack of access to care can impact us all. And hater bills will come due for treatment and it will be a second wave of economic impact.

I agree. I saw one story about a 19 year old who was turned away for treatment because he had no insurance and then later died of CV-19. 

Poor people and homeless people who have no insurance won't get treatment unless they are seriously ill, and can't self quarantine (not if you live under a bridge and have to panhandle money to stay alive - and not if you have to show up for work at your minimum wage job even when sick to keep the wolf at the door). 

More people will realize the benefit of being able to provide a minimum level of healthcare to everyone in society, not just those who have insurance or those who are deathly sick. 

[happyhoix]

Apr 1, 2020 23:27:47 GMT -5 deadeyedick said:

Countries will no longer rely solely on China for the supply of medical equipment and pharmaceuticals. Not because of the origin of the virus so much as the disruption to the supply chain. It’s ok for China to me a major trading partner, but each country must produce enough of what will they need to survive a global emergency.

Unfortunately, the US relies on other countries for pretty much ALL manufacturing. Clothing, electronics, medical PPE, drugs - we're deluding ourselves if we jingoistically think we can make everything we need internally. Maybe this will wake people to that fact 

I work for a US manufacturer, and while we make our products here, a lot of our ingredients come to us from international sources, including China. Us and all the other manufacturers. 

[djAdvocate]

Apr 1, 2020 23:37:51 GMT -5 steff said:

Apr 1, 2020 20:32:10 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

oh- and it will be de rigeur to stock at least a year's supply of tp

This has kicked in a "prepper" mentality in my house & I'm not a fan, but I'm admittedly in the same mindset.  Gotta stock/store as much as I can now just in case. 

the wheels of industry will grind on, no matter what the toll on human life.

don't worry about the supply chain. esp of toilet paper. 90% of it is made in the US.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 2, 2020 9:43:06 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Apr 1, 2020 23:27:47 GMT -5 deadeyedick said:

Countries will no longer rely solely on China for the supply of medical equipment and pharmaceuticals. Not because of the origin of the virus so much as the disruption to the supply chain. It’s ok for China to me a major trading partner, but each country must produce enough of what will they need to survive a global emergency.

Unfortunately, the US relies on other countries for pretty much ALL manufacturing. Clothing, electronics, medical PPE, drugs - we're deluding ourselves if we jingoistically think we can make everything we need internally. Maybe this will wake people to that fact 

I work for a US manufacturer, and while we make our products here, a lot of our ingredients come to us from international sources, including China. Us and all the other manufacturers. 

that's not true. the US is the largest manufacturer on Earth.

however, what passes for manufacturing is not what most people think.

it is mostly food processing here in the US. and it is massive beyond the ability of most people to imagine.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I hope people like having fresh air, blue skies and seeing animals return to their native lands and will decide maybe we should give a hoot about our planet.   I think it's hard to deny humans are damaging the planet when there are reports that places like China and India are seeing blue skies and breathing the cleanest air they've had in decades.

Mother nature is pissed.  She sent us to our room to think about what we did.   Let's actually follow through because this is not going to be the last of the deadly plagues she throws at us.

[deminmaine]

On of the more curious results I have seen from this is a decrease in Earth vibration due to the lockdowns. 

[NastyWoman]

Apr 1, 2020 20:38:44 GMT -5 justme said:

Apr 1, 2020 20:31:38 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I'll read it, but have not done so yet. I think that there will be a profound change in how we do business. Travel and expensive meeting venues will no longer seem necessary. 

I think it'll stop some meeting venues for internal meetings but I don't think it'll stop a lot of the big conferences. There's just too much you lose virtual - assuming they can figure out a way for the big ones to even be virtual. The huge conference I go to always has problems with the virtual machines they use in person online would be a clusterfuck. Not to mention other aspects that would be hard to manage virtually.

Even on a smaller scale that is true. Our company has quarterly (more or less) customer reviews for each contract. Even though I don't have the technical knowledge to understand everything that is being said I faithfully attend those meetings. The reason you ask? I am in part very good at my job because I am good at reading body language. Even when nothing is said I often know where you can push a customer if needed and when it is better the back the h*** off. So when issues come up I am looked to for advice

[sesfw]

Mother nature is pissed. She sent us to our room to think about what we did.

I heard this a couple of days ago, except it was God that was mad at us .......... so He sent us to our room





On of the more curious results I have seen from this is a decrease in Earth vibration due to the lockdowns.


I saw this also, but didn't read the article.  Was it interesting?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I also read that some countries are taking the opportunity to discuss over tourism and the damage that is being done to world heritage sites because of it.  Without the masses of people coming off cruise ships right now these places are getting a chance to catch their breath and regroup.

I also think it'll be good for our national parks to be shut down to human traffic for awhile.

[happyhoix]

Apr 2, 2020 14:44:43 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I also read that some countries are taking the opportunity to discuss over tourism and the damage that is being done to world heritage sites because of it.  Without the masses of people coming off cruise ships right now these places are getting a chance to catch their breath and regroup.

I also think it'll be good for our national parks to be shut down to human traffic for awhile.

Good. I hope people with common sense will fence off all of Mount Everest  to everyone for always. 

Bad enough there's empty breathing air cylinders and garbage and feces all over it, they apparently don't even attempt to remove the dead, just slide them into a crevasse and wish them the best of luck. Or just let them lie at the side of the trail as a warning to others. 

If you want to see the top of Mt Everest get in a jet and fly over it with a mixed drink in one hand and some nice music coming through on your noise cancelling headphones, as God intended. 

[formerroomate99]

20 years ago, I went into tech thinking that since the technology was there, I'd be working from home, which is more compatible with motherhood.  20 years later, I'm finding that most employers are knuckle dragging Neanderthals who are more concerned with where my ass is than what I'm actually doing.  I'm hoping that coronavirus makes more employers wake up to the fact that man people can work from home just fine.  It would do wonders for the environment and employee's quality of life.  

[formerroomate99]

Apr 2, 2020 13:02:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I hope people like having fresh air, blue skies and seeing animals return to their native lands and will decide maybe we should give a hoot about our planet.   I think it's hard to deny humans are damaging the planet when there are reports that places like China and India are seeing blue skies and breathing the cleanest air they've had in decades.

Mother nature is pissed.  She sent us to our room to think about what we did.   Let's actually follow through because this is not going to be the last of the deadly plagues she throws at us.

A lot of what you're wanting can be accomplished by employers letting their cube drones work from home.  

[thyme4change]

I doubt internal business travel will decrease. I think executives like being out of the office, away from prying eyes. It makes them feel important. "I have to be in Chicago on Tuesday, and Dallas on Wednesday, because the world revolves around me."

I also wouldn't bet on the hotel and airline industries letting business travel die without a big fight. They will do campaigns about how productive and happy your team is if you are all together, and really exploit the drawbacks of people working together from a distance.