Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 15, 2021 19:57:23 GMT -5
Remember, the UK delayed giving the second vaccine. They wanted to give as many people first vaccines, then give second vaccines. May have been a mistake on their part Are you excited about Ny state's current status regarding Covid? I saw Cuomo's victory speech on TV, although he and NY deserve credit and atta boys. Enjoy the lights and the fireworks. I hope Gov Murphy will do something like that for us, when all our peeps get their crap together.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 15, 2021 20:15:36 GMT -5
Remember, the UK delayed giving the second vaccine. They wanted to give as many people first vaccines, then give second vaccines. May have been a mistake on their part I don't know about that. It's definitely the case that the protection provided by a single dose is not as high as predicted when faced with the Delta variant. On the other hand, having 62% of their population jabbed once puts them in a good position to get many people fully vaccinated quickly.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 15, 2021 20:27:13 GMT -5
Remember, the UK delayed giving the second vaccine. They wanted to give as many people first vaccines, then give second vaccines. May have been a mistake on their part I don't know about that. It's definitely the case that the protection provided by a single dose is not as high as predicted when faced with the Delta variant. On the other hand, having 62% of their population jabbed once puts them in a good position to get many people fully vaccinated quickly.
Yes, but they have set themselves up for what is going on right now. I think getting the vulnerable fully vaccinated quickly likely saves more lives
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 21, 2021 13:18:29 GMT -5
I don't know about that. It's definitely the case that the protection provided by a single dose is not as high as predicted when faced with the Delta variant. On the other hand, having 62% of their population jabbed once puts them in a good position to get many people fully vaccinated quickly.
Yes, but they have set themselves up for what is going on right now. I think getting the vulnerable fully vaccinated quickly likely saves more lives Were you thinking about Canada when you typed this? I've spent the last week trying to get a bead on how well the UK and Canada have prioritized getting the most vulnerable vaccinated and, more importantly, fully vaccinated.
I haven't been particularly successful. (My google-fu is weak.) When I did find breakdowns of vaccination rates by age, the age bands specified were often too broad to be much use (I want something more granular than percent of total population, percent of over 18 population and percent of over-65s) or they only presented the data on the number of persons in an age category who had been jabbed once.
Despite not seeing of finding the data that I wanted to see, presented the way that I wanted, I've come to the conclusion that Canada has done a much worse job than the UK in getting their most vulnerable fully vaccinated. Their spread between the percent of population partially vaccinated and the percent fully vaccinated is immense and the percentage of their population that is fully vaccinated is horrifying!
Canada has an interesting decision to make in the next few weeks.
ETA: I couldn't find an easy way to work 34% into the above and I regret it. That's so much lower than the 80% figure that was used when the decision to pursue a single-shot strategy was made.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jun 21, 2021 14:24:40 GMT -5
Yes, but they have set themselves up for what is going on right now. I think getting the vulnerable fully vaccinated quickly likely saves more lives Were you thinking about Canada when you typed this? I've spent the last week trying to get a bead on how well the UK and Canada have prioritized getting the most vulnerable vaccinated and, more importantly, fully vaccinated.
I haven't been particularly successful. (My google-fu is weak.) When I did find breakdowns of vaccination rates by age, the age bands specified were often too broad to be much use (I want something more granular than percent of total population, percent of over 18 population and percent of over-65s) or they only presented the data on the number of persons in an age category who had been jabbed once.
Despite not seeing of finding the data that I wanted to see, presented the way that I wanted, I've come to the conclusion that Canada has done a much worse job than the UK in getting their most vulnerable fully vaccinated. Their spread between the percent of population partially vaccinated and the percent fully vaccinated is immense and the percentage of their population that is fully vaccinated is horrifying!
Canada has an interesting decision to make in the next few weeks.
ETA: I couldn't find an easy way to work 34% into the above and I regret it. That's so much lower than the 80% figure that was used when the decision to pursue a single-shot strategy was made. The UK delayed second doses to get more people partially vaccinated. I am not sure what Canada did
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 21, 2021 14:45:36 GMT -5
Canada seems to have left its most vulnerable people even more unprotected against the Delta variant than the UK. I can't show you the graphs, and I don't know their second dose policy, but everything that I can glean from what I can find point out that they are sitting ducks. Very few of them are fully vaccinated.
I invite Canucks to fill me in. Where are you guys discussing this? Where can I find data showing how many young-olds (50-65ish) and how many old-olds (75+ or such) are fully vaccinated? I'm kinda sensing a bit of opportunism in what your public health folks are choosing to publish and highlight.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 21, 2021 17:50:55 GMT -5
I was looking at my state's numbers by county and I was surprised at which counties had high vaccination rates. It is almost directly inverted from what I expected. Just goes to show ya - just because you know 50 people who did something, it doesn't mean that you know the real stats.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Jun 21, 2021 20:35:40 GMT -5
Canada seems to have left its most vulnerable people even more unprotected against the Delta variant than the UK. I can't show you the graphs, and I don't know their second dose policy, but everything that I can glean from what I can find point out that they are sitting ducks. Very few of them are fully vaccinated.
I invite Canucks to fill me in. Where are you guys discussing this? Where can I find data showing how many young-olds (50-65ish) and how many old-olds (75+ or such) are fully vaccinated? I'm kinda sensing a bit of opportunism in what your public health folks are choosing to publish and highlight.
I know lots of Americans are discussing how Canada is handling the vaccination. I don't know much about Canadians discussing this except in response to Americans. It doesn't mean discussions aren't happening. It just means I'm comfortable with the strategy and haven't sought any out. I don't know if there is any public data breaking down who is getting the shot by age. I can post a link to BC's original vaccination plan. BC COVID-19 Immunization PlanThis is only semi-helpful as whether you qualified for a 1st shot sooner then your category came up depended on how many vaccines were available in your area and how many were willing to take them. It also depended on whether or not there was a breakout in your area. So in Prince Rupert they had open clinics in March for the 1st shot. 85% of Prince Rupert residents vaccinatedPhase I has completed the 2nd shots to the best of my knowledge. They have started on the second shots for the Phase II and III individuals who are at least 8 weeks from shot #1. I got my AZ on Jun 12th. Dad got his Pfizer on Jun 16th. DD (19) got her first shot on Jun 8th, I believe. Burns Lake is handing out 2nd shots this week. The Bands around there had their 1st shots sooner so they got their 2nd shots sooner. The majority of the people getting Covid were of working age. Most of BC's death in Long-Term Care had a worker as the original carrier. The strategy is to give as many people as possible some protection to try to minimize hospitalizations/deaths and maximize protection for society. Is it a good plan? We're not a video game so we can only work the scenario we went with and watch for variables that will really fuck it up and adapt when necessary. BC COVID-19 DashboardBC Covid Cases - Distribution by age (as of Jun 21/21 4:30 PM report): Unknown - 24 90+ - 1497 80 - 89 - 3,323 70 - 79 - 6,093 60 - 69 - 11,820 50 - 59 - 18,337 40 - 49 - 21,673 30 - 39 - 27,116 20 - 29 - 33,007 10 - 19 - 15,851 >10 - 8,390 BC Total Vaccinations (as of Jun 21/21 4:30 PM report): 4,436,432 # with 1 dose 2,565,630 # with 2 doses 935,401 BC's population was estimated to be 5,147,712 in 2020. It was estimated that about 470,000 were under the age of 10. Dr. Bonnie Henry is very much inclined to err on the side of caution when permitted so if we start to crash and burn, we will change tack. I personally see little advantage to more people having 2 doses while leaving more people with no doses. Up here we were never completely under lockdown. Too many essential services and workers. Too many people who live in one province and work in another. I can't speak for the rest of Canada because I don't live in the rest of Canada. I can barely speak for more then the Northern Health Authority because each of the other 5 BC Health Authority could manage their own resources to react to need. Does that help any?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 22, 2021 10:42:56 GMT -5
Well, it was nice to hear from a Canadian, and you've made me feel better about not being able to find the percentages of people in each age cohort who are fully vaccinated, but no, what you've pointed me to hasn't been particularly helpful.
I am shocked that nobody is pressing for an answer regarding how well you have protected your most vulnerable citizens. Maybe that is because I live in the US, where we really don't have much in the way of public health and can't expect much of what we refuse to fund and therefore refuse to trust them.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jun 22, 2021 11:56:16 GMT -5
One dose was fine against the Alpha (Kent variant) but its not fine against the Delta (Indian) variant which we have got more recently.
I seem to remember off the top of my head (30% protection against Delta for one dose and 60% for 2)
We have 60% of the adult population double dosed and there is a mad scramble to get all over 18s done with pop up clinics all over.
The infection rate has been rising exponentially but seems to be slowing. There has been some deaths but nothing like we saw in January.
You do have Delta variant so may expect to see a rise in infections in the coming weeks. Its not over yet.... but the vaccines do give protection.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Jun 23, 2021 0:25:52 GMT -5
Covid-19 Vaccination CoverageI don't know what graph you're seeing that is telling you Canada is in big trouble so it's hard to agree with your urgency. I still don't understand how the way we are doing things is inherently worse then the way anyone else is doing this. That might not be what you are saying but it seems to be this week's common theme amongst the American message boards I frequent. I don't know if the above link will automatically update this Friday but right now it should take you to the data that was posted last Friday that includes the information up to June 12, 2021. The vaccination data is broken down in a number of ways including by sex and by age. There is a CVS file that goes week by week from December 2020 to June 12, 2021 that gives the breakdown by Canada and province for female & age then male & age. Second shots started being given out at various times in January These 2nd shots were going to the most vulnerable and those with the most contact with them since they got the first shots. I stopped scrolling early in February so maybe there is a long string of nobody getting second shots. The data below is from the link. Hopefully it stays legible when I post since I had to respace things. Table 2. Cumulative percent and number of people who have received a COVID-19 vaccine in Canada by age group and vaccination status, June 12, 2021 Age At least one dose Partially vaccinated Fully vaccinated Children aged 0 to 11 0.18% (8,525) 0.18% (8,524) 0% (1) Children aged 12 to 17 52.45% (1,281,659) 51.36% (1,254,946) 1.09% (26,713) Adults aged 18 to 29 59.11% (3,556,833) 52.71% (3,171,647) 6.40% (385,186) Adults aged 30 to 39 65.44% (3,463,157) 56.78% (3,004,847) 8.66% (458,310) Adults aged 40 to 49 73.30% (3,558,408) 63.04% (3,060,301) 10.26% (498,107) Adults aged 50 to 59 78.01% (4,052,634) 65.05% (3,379,162) 12.96% (673,472) Adults aged 60 to 69 87.20% (4,122,343) 66.99% (3,167,058) 20.21% (955,285) Adults aged 70 to 79 92.78% (2,787,899) 59.65% (1,792,454) 33.13% (995,445) Adults aged 80 and older 93.58% (1,556,827) 40.81% (678,863) 52.77% (877,964) Not reported n/a (0) n/a (0) n/a (0) Unknown n/a (21,824) n/a (18,974) n/a (2,850) At least one dose just means everyone who has had one or both shots. I get we need to protect the old and vulnerable but they don't live in a vacuum. We have a lot of families up here like mine that even if the old folks don't live with anyone, there is still a lot of multigenerational interaction. Even when my dad was stuck in his room, the cleaning staff still had to do parts of their jobs that couldn't be left too long. At a minimum, the cooking staff was still making the meals. Everyone was masked and temp checked but shit can happen. So is it really better if every 70+ person got both their shots and everyone else in their lives had none. Again, while the majority of the deaths were the old and the sick, the majority of the cases were working age people going about their lives and passing it around. The old and the sick were purposely isolated as much as possible to protect them. A lot of the rest of us still had to do shit like go to work and buy groceries. Hell some of us had to sell the groceries. And we had to do it while interacting with people who didn't take it so seriously. To me, just like wearing at least a multilayer cloth mask, some protection is better then no protection. As a strategy it might crash and burn or it might be fine. Only time will tell.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 24, 2021 13:14:27 GMT -5
I follow quite a few Canadians on Twitter, and they were previously outraged by the poor covid response, especially in Ontario. That has quieted down quite a bit as of late.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 24, 2021 14:44:53 GMT -5
I was looking at my state's numbers by county and I was surprised at which counties had high vaccination rates. It is almost directly inverted from what I expected. Just goes to show ya - just because you know 50 people who did something, it doesn't mean that you know the real stats. I was looking at by county information here as well, mostly because the full state numbers are much lower than those of this region (one county, not mine) has reached 90% of the over 12 population for at least one dose. I must say I was not surprised by what I saw. We have a few deep red pockets in this state - they elected Nuñes what can I say- and vacination rates in those areas are as bad as some of the worst states. They are in the low 30s percentage wise. At this point I am all for making the vaccine mandatory except for documented medical reasons.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jun 24, 2021 23:42:31 GMT -5
Thanks mollyc, that was exactly what I was looking for. I had seen something like it before but I swear that the percentages were missing. Yes, I'll check out the update tomorrow. Does "fully vaccinated" mean persons who have received two shots or does it refer to persons who have received two shots at least two weeks ago?
Are you still sticking with a 12-week delay between doses or is that being accelerated? Is what Saskatchewan did yesterday a change in policy or merely a one-off way to use up an excess of doses?
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Jun 25, 2021 13:56:43 GMT -5
Thanks mollyc , that was exactly what I was looking for. I had seen something like it before but I swear that the percentages were missing. Yes, I'll check out the update tomorrow. Does "fully vaccinated" mean persons who have received two shots or does it refer to persons who have received two shots at least two weeks ago?
Are you still sticking with a 12-week delay between doses or is that being accelerated? Is what Saskatchewan did yesterday a change in policy or merely a one-off way to use up an excess of doses?
The fully vaccinated means the number of people with 2 shots that were reported to Health Canada by the deadline. Things are in a bit of flux as around the beginning of June, Nunavat stopped recording people who got their shots in Nunavat but didn't live there. It was given a false reading of what percentage of the population was vaccinated. In fact, they may have backed the outside people out of their numbers all together so overall we will be short until those peoples are recorded in their home provinces/territories (assuming they will be recorded there). That change may also be happening elsewhere. There are a lot of places where people work one place but live in another and a bunch of employers have organized vaccine clinics at their sites to help minimize down time/lockdowns now that vaccine supply is somewhat more stable. I had to look up what Saskatchewan did as I don't live there. It looks like they have changed their policy to 28 days between shots. I don't know why. I am going to guess it is a combination of less demand for 1st shots, increase in Variants of Concern, increase in vaccine supply and studies showing that there are acceptable results using either Pfizer and Moderna as a second shot regardless which vaccine was used for your first shot. They might have a press conference on Youtube explaining the why. The Health Departments have been pretty good about that generally. Sometimes the reporters questions after bring up topics they didn't specifically cover. I can't remember what BC's official timing is now. It might be 8 weeks. I was a bit more then 9 weeks because of when the Pharmacy's schedule and mine meshed. My dad was 12 weeks because of a change in how to schedule 2nd shots that my brother and I missed so he was booked later then he needed to be.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 2, 2021 18:32:44 GMT -5
Well it has happened. The lovely downward trends in new cases in the US, which has been slowing for weeks, reversed yesterday or today. We are trending up again, and I don't think that it is due to folks getting tested before family get-togethers.
The timing of the turn kinda stinks. It fell on the Friday before the Fourth of July weekend and the numbers that come in during the next week or so are going to be hard to interpret due to delays in testing and reporting caused by the holiday. It's going to be easy to claim that it's all noise due to the holiday. I doubt it.
I think that we are six to eight weeks behind the UK's new case curve.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 2, 2021 19:27:47 GMT -5
Yeah, cases are rising and it seems to be hitting states/areas with lower vaccination rates. I was feeling pretty good that my suburb had no coronavirus deaths report for the first time in months. Only 54 new cases in June. The vaccination rate is very high (most kids are in the process of getting vaccinated at this point). I was glad to see my local number NOT go up after Memorial Day.
I'm guessing my "local" situation isn't going to change much - since the vaccination rate is so high. I'm guessing in places with low rates - it's gonna get ugly. Probably 2 weeks after the 4th of July.
I was tempted to buy an extra package of TP (just in case). My 4th of July plans are pretty laid back - not really seeing anyone out side my "bubble" and we are all vaccinated and being cautious.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 2, 2021 20:28:55 GMT -5
Yes, the states with lower vaccination rates started turning a week or so ago. I'm a bit more worried for them than I am for my own state. We've done a somewhat decent job of getting the oldest folks fully vaccinated, so that should keep deaths and hospitalizations down. That's not going to be the case for states that haven't jabbed the over-65s even once. A lot can happen in the five or six weeks that it takes between getting that first jab and two weeks after the second. This is Delta that we're talking about, not Alpha. Alpha pretty much backed away from anyone who had gotten a single shot two weeks earlier, but Delta just smirks until you are two weeks past the second shot.
We really need to get more people onto that five to six week track toward being fully vaccinated. I have no idea how to do this.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 4, 2021 11:51:44 GMT -5
FWIW, it's not just the states with lousy vaccination rates that are seeing rising new case rates. My own state is in the bottom quarter of states for new cases and we saw our first increase in the seven-day average compared to the seven-day average two weeks ago, about three days ago.
Obviously, I've been reading the NYT's state and national Coronavirus data pages. I really like their data smoothing, trend-lines, and comparisons to where we were two weeks ago. Unfortunately, this approach really shortens the plateau before increases in new cases. That is, when you continuously compare the smoothed line to the smoothed line from two weeks ago, the plateau stage is fleeting and things turn very quickly. It tends to alert you a turn in the curve about a week later than comparisons of total weekly new cases compared to the last.
It's easy to dismiss a rise in new case numbers as a data fluke, which it probably isn't. A lot of states, including many in the middle of the vaccination pack, have seen their new cases plateau and start increasing. The timing is unfortunate. It's easy to miss the local news announcing that week over week numbers are up right before an extended weekend and it is easy to dismiss rising case numbers as testing delays right after such a holiday.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 4, 2021 12:13:14 GMT -5
Here is real time data from my hospital. We are tracking all positives, and determining if we can stop testing admitted patients who are fully vaccinated.
positive total tests % positive 5/1-31/2001 8 565 1.4% 6/1-7 2 101 2% 6/8-15/21 0 109 0% 6/16-21/21 0 122 0% 6/22-28/21 1 133 0.8%
3 of those testing positive were vaccinated. 1 of those wasa an asymptomatic case(I am unaware of the status of the other 2). Statewide, we are holding at about 0.5% positivity rate, hospital admissions are basically low, but flat. We are one of the better states in regards to vaccination rate, and have opened and removed the mask mandate.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 4, 2021 13:53:24 GMT -5
I live in the South, where we have a low vaccine rate in most of the states. We’ve also go most of the population going maskless. At the Walmart today, three of us out of several hundred wore masks.
Yes, cases are rising, the Delta variant is spreading, and I’m pretty sure these chuckleheads will experience another wave this fall and then blame it on Biden.
I need to move.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Jul 8, 2021 14:45:40 GMT -5
Ontario Study on Confirmed Cases after Vaccination
Someone on another site I visit posted this link. For the period Dec 14, 2020 to Jun 26, 2021, Ontario has done a study of the data for infection after receiving one or more vaccines. It seems to be good news. It does show that exposure before the antibodies have had time to develop and age make a difference. Highlights Since the COVID-19 vaccination program began on December 14, 2020 and up to June 26, 2021, a total of 9,864,684 individuals in Ontario received at least one dose of vaccine (Table 2). Of the almost 9.9 million vaccinated individuals only 0.16% (15,592 individuals including both symptomatic and asymptomatic cases) became infected when they were partially vaccinated and only 0.02% (1,635 individuals) became infected when they were fully vaccinated; as these were fully vaccinated individuals, these are considered breakthrough cases (Table 2). The majority (51.7%) of post-vaccination cases identified were not yet protected from vaccination when they acquired their infection, as their symptom onset date was within 0 to <14 days following dose 1 administration (Table 1). The number of post-vaccination cases declines dramatically as time from vaccination increases. The number of post-vaccination cases appears to decrease at about 10 days after dose 1. A marked decrease in post-vaccination cases is observed 28 or more days after dose 1 and very few cases are reported following dose 2 (Figure 1). Only 4.6% of cases post-vaccination occurred 14 or more days after dose 2 administration and are considered breakthrough cases (Table 1). Looking at this did make me feel better about sticking with the AstraZeneca for both shots. It didn't make me feel better about my dad going to the Lower Mainland with my sister on Sunday. Then again, his parents certainly never wrapped him in cotton batting, he probably wouldn't appreciate his kids doing so.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jul 8, 2021 16:19:23 GMT -5
Wow! That is an interesting, detailed, and readable report! I'm especially struck by how it was compiled by data-mining instead of reliant on (incomplete and junky) reporting of post-vaccination cases. I don't think that the US can do anything similar because we move around too much and our vaccination reports do not contain a unique identifier (social security number or national health id number) that allow us to say with an acceptable level of certainty that this person in this data set is the same person that is in this data set even though not everything matches up exactly.
I am gobsmacked by how well they defined various types of post-vaccination cases and that they distinguished between asymptomatic and symptomatic cases, and by how candidly they admitted that later cases (the vast bulk of relevant cases) were predominantly B.1.1.7 (Alpha variant).
The timeliness is also amazing. They got the final batch of data about ten days ago!
This is absolutely amazing!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2021 22:22:55 GMT -5
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 21, 2021 6:26:49 GMT -5
Back when we were only at 90k deaths, an analysis showed that there were likely 120k deaths. I have no problem believing the true count is 25-30% higher. I suspect a fair number of pneumonia deaths, especially early on were actually due to covid, especially in places like Florida.
Excess deaths will always be the best way to look at this. Actuaries are good at there job. They have a good handle on expected deaths. Historical data also works. Death rates for most causes are declining. A large increase in deaths year over year is almost always due to infectious diseases or disasters
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jul 21, 2021 13:19:59 GMT -5
mollyc - that's a great study. wish that same group would have looked at vaccine reactions to quiet those myths.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 21, 2021 13:23:25 GMT -5
There was a large chunk of time, especially early in the pandemic where testing in certain areas of the US was nil. Add to this that you have certain states that whitewashed their state's statistics for political purpose, and it's really hard to know exactly how many people died. So there is no doubt in my mind from what I read that the numbers are probably higher than reported.
However, it will be interesting in seeing what 12+ months of little cancer screening and postponed emergent care for things like heart attacks and strokes do to the numbers.
At least if you want to feel better about things, I'm reading about the Spanish Influenza and China did quite a bit if whitewashing deaths too. Surprise, surprise!
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 21, 2021 14:16:24 GMT -5
The estimate in May of 2020 was that there would be 10k more cancer deaths in the next 5 years than there should have been due to the pandemic and lack of care. Suspect that number is higher, but likely less than 2-3 times that as we screen effectively for only a few cancers.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 21, 2021 14:23:49 GMT -5
The estimate in May of 2020 was that there would be 10k more cancer deaths in the next 5 years than there should have been due to the pandemic and lack of care. Suspect that number is higher, but likely less than 2-3 times that as we screen effectively for only a few cancers. I saw a report on BBC in summer of 2020 that was really interesting. The NHS was suggesting that people who had alarming symptoms that they thought might be cancer for more than 2 weeks to contact an oncologist directly rather than going through the normal channels of their GP and getting referred to an oncologist. The thoughts were that GPs were so tied up with COVID that these were falling between the cracks and the oncologists were going to start the preliminary screening themselves. I'm not sure how the NHS works exactly, but this sounds about right from what I have heard from how people talk about getting new hips.
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mollyc
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 2:12:25 GMT -5
Posts: 869
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Post by mollyc on Jul 22, 2021 0:03:25 GMT -5
mollyc - that's a great study. wish that same group would have looked at vaccine reactions to quiet those myths. They did. I can't link from my phone but Public Health Ontario has an Adverse Events Following Immunization report for Ontario from the period Dec 13, 2020 to Jul 17, 2021. I suspect it wouldn't help though. For a total doses administered of 18,087,027, there were 8,396 AEFI reports and 7,997 were categorized as non-serious. I suspect that would either be considered 8,396 too many or the claim would be made that they are under reporting bad side effects.
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