Hey, Pulmonary MD.....

[kadee79]

What do you think about this?....sharing....


www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/health/coronavirus-ventilator-sharing.html

[dondub]

BTW.... thanks for joining this forum. I always look forward to your posts, especially during these troubled times. Thanks.

[pulmonarymd]

Mar 27, 2020 22:18:10 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

What do you think about this?....sharing....


www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/health/coronavirus-ventilator-sharing.html

It’s basically a battlefield tactic in response to an untenable situation. Numerous technical and ethical issues abound such as:

1 what happens if only 1 patient has the infection?
2 how do you chose which patients share?
3 currently, most ICU rooms are not large enough for 2 patients and a ventilator, so where is it done? An open ward type situation? Everyone working in one is exposed, as well as the patients
4 what do you do if one patient is worsening and the other is stable. A ventilator although lifesaving, can also damage lungs
5 it is experimental and nonstandard, which is a recipe for people to make mistakes, which could have disastrous implications

If we are doing this, it is a failure of leadership and we are in such an extreme situation that it is unthinkable. This is why we are working on a ventilator allocation policy, and you see the talk about blanket DNRs.

IMHO

[OldCoyote]

Mar 28, 2020 6:50:58 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Mar 27, 2020 22:18:10 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

What do you think about this?....sharing....


www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/health/coronavirus-ventilator-sharing.html

It’s basically a battlefield tactic in response to an untenable situation. Numerous technical and ethical issues abound such as:

1 what happens if only 1 patient has the infection?
2 how do you chose which patients share?
3 currently, most ICU rooms are not large enough for 2 patients and a ventilator, so where is it done? An open ward type situation? Everyone working in one is exposed, as well as the patients
4 what do you do if one patient is worsening and the other is stable. A ventilator although lifesaving, can also damage lungs
5 it is experimental and nonstandard, which is a recipe for people to make mistakes, which could have disastrous implications

If we are doing this, it is a failure of leadership and we are in such an extreme situation that it is unthinkable. This is why we are working on a ventilator allocation policy, and you see the talk about blanket DNRs.

IMHO

I agree! Obama had seven years to replenish the depleted supply, did not do it!!

You can argue that Trump had three years,, But why would he have been aware that it had not been done by Obama's crew??

www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/25/after-last-pandemic-task-force-advised-obama-to-avert-shortage-of-masks/

Yep, Obama was advised, did not do it!!

[chiver78]

Mar 28, 2020 9:54:02 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Mar 28, 2020 6:50:58 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

It’s basically a battlefield tactic in response to an untenable situation. Numerous technical and ethical issues abound such as:

1 what happens if only 1 patient has the infection?
2 how do you chose which patients share?
3 currently, most ICU rooms are not large enough for 2 patients and a ventilator, so where is it done? An open ward type situation? Everyone working in one is exposed, as well as the patients
4 what do you do if one patient is worsening and the other is stable. A ventilator although lifesaving, can also damage lungs
5 it is experimental and nonstandard, which is a recipe for people to make mistakes, which could have disastrous implications

If we are doing this, it is a failure of leadership and we are in such an extreme situation that it is unthinkable. This is why we are working on a ventilator allocation policy, and you see the talk about blanket DNRs.

IMHO

I agree! Obama had seven years to replenish the depleted supply, did not do it!!

You can argue that Trump had three years,, But why would he have been aware that it had not been done by Obama's crew??

www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/25/after-last-pandemic-task-force-advised-obama-to-avert-shortage-of-masks/

Yep, Obama was advised, did not do it!!

this thread is on Current Events, not Politics. take your trolling elsewhere. further political rants in this thread will be deleted with no warning.

-chiver mod

[pulmonarymd]

Mar 28, 2020 9:54:02 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Mar 28, 2020 6:50:58 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

It’s basically a battlefield tactic in response to an untenable situation. Numerous technical and ethical issues abound such as:

1 what happens if only 1 patient has the infection?
2 how do you chose which patients share?
3 currently, most ICU rooms are not large enough for 2 patients and a ventilator, so where is it done? An open ward type situation? Everyone working in one is exposed, as well as the patients
4 what do you do if one patient is worsening and the other is stable. A ventilator although lifesaving, can also damage lungs
5 it is experimental and nonstandard, which is a recipe for people to make mistakes, which could have disastrous implications

If we are doing this, it is a failure of leadership and we are in such an extreme situation that it is unthinkable. This is why we are working on a ventilator allocation policy, and you see the talk about blanket DNRs.

IMHO

I agree! Obama had seven years to replenish the depleted supply, did not do it!!

You can argue that Trump had three years,, But why would he have been aware that it had not been done by Obama's crew??

www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/25/after-last-pandemic-task-force-advised-obama-to-avert-shortage-of-masks/

Yep, Obama was advised, did not do it!!

So a CEO should just blame his predecessor, it’s not his fault if he fails. Think stockholders will go for that! You are just showing how ridiculous the defense of trump is. How long does he have to be president before he is responsible for anything? Don’t bother to answer, I know it will be nonsense.

[chiver78]

Mar 28, 2020 10:21:56 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Mar 28, 2020 9:58:13 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

this thread is on Current Events, not Politics. take your trolling elsewhere. further political rants in this thread will be deleted with no warning.

-chiver mod

So I am assuming that Tenn's post #6 would of course be a current event,

You know Chiver, it really unusual for you to "Mod" ifiy me.

Have a good day.

in the what,10 minutes since I posted that and drove to the dog park, I haven't seen them yet. but thank you for making sure to point out where others followed your lead. 🙄 all of the political posts will go.

as far as laying down the mod tag, you generally keep your trolling to the politics forum. don't make a habit of it in CE, and you won't get slapped. 🤷‍♀️

[mmhmm]

This thread has absolutely NO political connection. A ventilator has no political preference, believe me. Keep the political discussions in Politics as chiver78 has requested, please. TIA

mmhmm, Administrator

[chiver78]

thanks, mmhmm. one of these days, I'll remember that the mod tools aren't available via mobile. 🤦‍♀️

[mmhmm]

Mar 28, 2020 10:55:06 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

thanks, mmhmm. one of these days, I'll remember that the mod tools aren't available via mobile. 🤦‍♀️

Not a problem. I'm happy to help.

[NastyWoman]

Mar 28, 2020 6:50:58 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Mar 27, 2020 22:18:10 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

What do you think about this?....sharing....


www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/health/coronavirus-ventilator-sharing.html

It’s basically a battlefield tactic in response to an untenable situation. Numerous technical and ethical issues abound such as:

1 what happens if only 1 patient has the infection?
2 how do you chose which patients share?
3 currently, most ICU rooms are not large enough for 2 patients and a ventilator, so where is it done? An open ward type situation? Everyone working in one is exposed, as well as the patients
4 what do you do if one patient is worsening and the other is stable. A ventilator although lifesaving, can also damage lungs
5 it is experimental and nonstandard, which is a recipe for people to make mistakes, which could have disastrous implications

If we are doing this, it is a failure of leadership and we are in such an extreme situation that it is unthinkable. This is why we are working on a ventilator allocation policy, and you see the talk about blanket DNRs.

IMHO

On the news last night (so no link) they were saying that they are converting diving masks to use as ventilators. There was one doctor who said they had used the converted masks successfully since the night before. The conversion parts were made with 3D printers.  It may have been limited to this area as they were appealing to people who had the printers to come foreward and help out.  But who knows it might have been in another state altogether since my coping mechanism is to not pay too much attention when the news is on. I just stay inside and do my thing. WFH sucks on the one hand, but on the other hand it keeps me busy enough to not go bonkers.

I too would like to thank you for the work you do. Doctors always save lives, but most don't have to put their own lives on the line to do so continuously. So thank you once again

[kadee79]

Thank you for your reply PMD.

Even though the info isn't all that reassuring, at least we may know what is going on it we have to be treated....that is a small relief.

[pulmonarymd]

Mar 28, 2020 15:47:14 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

Thank you for your reply PMD.

Even though the info isn't all that reassuring, at least we may know what is going on it we have to be treated....that is a small relief.

Statement from multiple professional organizations came out recommending against this due to risk

[kadee79]

I was afraid of that.  Not a really good idea due to so many variables between patients.