thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 4, 2020 22:09:27 GMT -5
I'm kinda in agreement with the privacy advocates here. I know that Facebook and Google already know where I am at all times. But it just seems wrong to me to have the government trace everyone I talk to. Apples and oranges comparison. You can directly control how much Facebook tracks you. You can chose not to use it. How do you choose not to get sick?
I also don't think that using Facebook, or not using it for that matter, has the same sort of implications that getting Covid19 does. Opening up the economy faster, with better knowledge, does not hinge on whether or not we use Facebook, does it?
I am not convinced. I don't want the government having access to my every move, my every interaction, my every everything. Not for a couple of years, not for a few months. It just doesn't feel right. I can leave my phone at home, or turn it off until I need it. I'm Gen X. I can live 80's style.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 4, 2020 22:15:20 GMT -5
There are too many statistics in the article for me to absorb. If you are interested in the comparison of Covid 19 and H1N1 of 2009/10.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 4, 2020 22:28:49 GMT -5
Harvard Business Review on the grief of Covid 19.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 4, 2020 22:30:53 GMT -5
although children are low risk as a group - some children are not, and some may die even though there was no known risk factor. I think parents will need to decide if they are willing to send the kids to school - if indeed - the schools open. Children are the worst sort of vector. It isn’t so much that they get diseased, but that they bring disease home to those that are more susceptible. Because most do not have boundaries, it’s even more likely to get worse. That does not even account for the teachers, staff and administrators that kids have access to on a daily basis in school. There is conflicting studies on if kids transmit the diseases to adults. If they do, it is at a lower rate. They think....
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 4, 2020 22:33:36 GMT -5
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 5, 2020 8:15:25 GMT -5
There are too many statistics in the article for me to absorb. If you are interested in the comparison of Covid 19 and H1N1 of 2009/10. Far more contagious and far more deadly than any influenza, save the one that caused the pandemic in 1918
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 5, 2020 11:50:35 GMT -5
Thank you pulmonarymd.
What does the morbidity report say about the mutant coronavirus?
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on May 5, 2020 13:56:22 GMT -5
Goggle is already tracking us, if your locator is turned on. But supposedly not individuals and no privacy violations. "The Community Mobility Reports were developed to be helpful while adhering to our stringent privacy protocols and protecting people’s privacy. No personally identifiable information, such as an individual’s location, contacts or movement, will be made available at any point." They show some interesting data in changes in patterns of where people are traveling. Data is available right down to the state and county level. My state was interesting. As soon as the schools were closed, travel increased to the parks, then the beaches and state parks were closed and it decreased dramatically.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 5, 2020 14:43:37 GMT -5
[quote timestamp="1588697435" author=" Artemis Windsong" source="/post/3127677/thread"][div]Thank you pulmonarymd. [/div] [div]What does the morbidity report say about the mutant coronavirus?[/div] [div]https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/a-mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-even-more-contagious-than-the-original-study-says/ar-BB13CHNP?li=BBnb7Kz [/div][/quote]It makes sense, and could explain the different experiences worldwide. Mortality and infection rate were so disparate at times, something seems off. Mutations always happen in viruses, and it appears this one was advantageous for it. Evolution at work. Not good news for those who were hoping to have it become less dangerous with time however, nor for us getting out of it easily.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 6, 2020 13:25:14 GMT -5
What worked in Vietnam and other Asian countries would work just fine in our country, but certain groups would never allow it. Remember what a big deal it was when some state government tried to require someone who had been working with Ebola patients to stay in her house? Do you think it's going to be any different if the state requires someone who may have been exposed to Covid-19 to do the same? And it would be pretty easy to track everyone's cellphone data to determine who has had contact with who, but privacy advocates would have a field day with that. Do you not understand the difference in how Ebola vs this spreads. If you are going to make a point, you should at least understand it. And it appears to be that people in more conservative areas are having problems with restrictions, or did you miss the news out of OK over the weekend. So, it is not only privacy advocates who have a problem, as they didn't threaten to shoot someone Pulmonary, I was making exactly the same point you were making. People are not going to obey quarantine orders, and they’re sure as heck not gonna be OK with being tracked. We agree on this. Most red states never got hit anywhere near as hard as New York had to be hit in order for them to finally lock down. If this disease has been raging in red states first, do you honestly believe that New York would’ve locked down when they were less than 50 cases in the entire state? Give me a break. Of course people in areas that have been barely touched by coronavirus are going to have a bigger problem with the restrictions and people in areas that have seen thousands of deaths. My red state locked down before New York, when they were less than 50 cases in the entire state. That included putting an absolute quarantine on nursing homes, and introducing new rules. We didn’t knowingly send people who are infected with Covid into nursing homes to infect everybody else, like New York and Massachusetts did. Now, nearly 2 months later, we’ve ramped up testing so that anybody who needs a test can get one, for free. We’ve been gathering PPE. The local convention center has been turned into a pop-up hospital, just in case. And we’ve been reading all the data about how this disease works and how to treat it. At this point there’s been about 5000 cases, 500 hospitalizations, and 50 deaths in my state, And since we don’t have hordes of billionaires living here and paying local taxes, there is talk about opening up, gradually, with new rules. That doesn’t seem as crazy as you make it out to be.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on May 6, 2020 14:01:00 GMT -5
Do you not understand the difference in how Ebola vs this spreads. If you are going to make a point, you should at least understand it. And it appears to be that people in more conservative areas are having problems with restrictions, or did you miss the news out of OK over the weekend. So, it is not only privacy advocates who have a problem, as they didn't threaten to shoot someone Pulmonary, I was making exactly the same point you were making. People are not going to obey quarantine orders, and they’re sure as heck not gonna be OK with being tracked. We agree on this. Most red states never got hit anywhere near as hard as New York had to be hit in order for them to finally lock down. If this disease has been raging in red states first, do you honestly believe that New York would’ve locked down when they were less than 50 cases in the entire state? Give me a break. Of course people in areas that have been barely touched by coronavirus are going to have a bigger problem with the restrictions and people in areas that have seen thousands of deaths. My red state locked down before New York, when they were less than 50 cases in the entire state. That included putting an absolute quarantine on nursing homes, and introducing new rules. We didn’t knowingly send people who are infected with Covid into nursing homes to infect everybody else, like New York and Massachusetts did. Now, nearly 2 months later, we’ve ramped up testing so that anybody who needs a test can get one, for free. We’ve been gathering PPE. The local convention center has been turned into a pop-up hospital, just in case. And we’ve been reading all the data about how this disease works and how to treat it. At this point there’s been about 5000 cases, 500 hospitalizations, and 50 deaths in my state, And since we don’t have hordes of billionaires living here and paying local taxes, there is talk about opening up, gradually, with new rules. That doesn’t seem as crazy as you make it out to be. People may be more willing to be tracked if it gives them more freedom. I went to the doctor's last week. In order to get into the building I had to have my temperate taken, wash my hands, and then wear a mask. If I opted not to do any of those things I was not allowed in the building. I could completely see some places saying if you can't demonstrate that you have the tracking app that you won't be allowed in that space.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 6, 2020 14:09:50 GMT -5
Pulmonary, I was making exactly the same point you were making. People are not going to obey quarantine orders, and they’re sure as heck not gonna be OK with being tracked. We agree on this. Most red states never got hit anywhere near as hard as New York had to be hit in order for them to finally lock down. If this disease has been raging in red states first, do you honestly believe that New York would’ve locked down when they were less than 50 cases in the entire state? Give me a break. Of course people in areas that have been barely touched by coronavirus are going to have a bigger problem with the restrictions and people in areas that have seen thousands of deaths. My red state locked down before New York, when they were less than 50 cases in the entire state. That included putting an absolute quarantine on nursing homes, and introducing new rules. We didn’t knowingly send people who are infected with Covid into nursing homes to infect everybody else, like New York and Massachusetts did. Now, nearly 2 months later, we’ve ramped up testing so that anybody who needs a test can get one, for free. We’ve been gathering PPE. The local convention center has been turned into a pop-up hospital, just in case. And we’ve been reading all the data about how this disease works and how to treat it. At this point there’s been about 5000 cases, 500 hospitalizations, and 50 deaths in my state, And since we don’t have hordes of billionaires living here and paying local taxes, there is talk about opening up, gradually, with new rules. That doesn’t seem as crazy as you make it out to be. People may be more willing to be tracked if it gives them more freedom. I went to the doctor's last week. In order to get into the building I had to have my temperate taken, wash my hands, and then wear a mask. If I opted not to do any of those things I was not allowed in the building. I could completely see some places saying if you can't demonstrate that you have the tracking app that you won't be allowed in that space. We will not see anyone who will not comply with our guidelines. If you do not wear a mask at the hospital, you do not get inside. All grocery stores have signs saying the same thing. If people do not wish to comply with what was put out by CDC or the health department, they should be refused service by private businesses. This is no time to fool around. The more obstinate we are about complying with the guidelines, the riskier it becomes.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 6, 2020 14:23:48 GMT -5
yeah I could see private businesses being more effective in getting people to obey health guidelines than the government. My county was going to require everyone to wear masks outside, but then they backtracked. But for a nonessential business, not requiring people to be careful would lose more customers then they would gain by letting things slide. And even if the county is going to be cowardly about requiring masks, they can always put those requirements on nonessential businesses as a condition of opening up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2020 17:48:18 GMT -5
No one in my area wears a mask. I can count on one hand the number of masks I have seen here since this started. I'd feel weird wearing one.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 6, 2020 18:17:04 GMT -5
HEre in NJ everyone wears masks in stores probably because there are so many deaths in this state we’re very aware of dangers
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 6, 2020 19:43:32 GMT -5
Well, we are going to Costco tomorrow morning, so it will be interesting to see if anyone gets turned away if they are without one.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on May 6, 2020 20:43:50 GMT -5
Well, we are going to Costco tomorrow morning, so it will be interesting to see if anyone gets turned away if they are without one. My understanding is that Costco will offer masks to customers who show up without one
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CCL
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Post by CCL on May 6, 2020 21:54:18 GMT -5
No one in my area wears a mask. I can count on one hand the number of masks I have seen here since this started. I'd feel weird wearing one. They have become more common here. Most people are wearing them now, in stores, at least.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on May 7, 2020 8:25:06 GMT -5
We went shopping yesterday, and everyone was wearing a mask. Every store had a sign on the door requiring masks - employees and customers.
We stopped at AutoZone - my car had sat idle for weeks, and the battery had a tough time starting, plus our Drivewise had sent a message to get it checked out. I sat in the car, while DH went in and out for a loaner code reader. I watched quite a few people come up to the door with mask in hand, stop to put it on, before going in. But everyone had them, young, old, male, female, workers, backyard mechanics, farmers, delivery guys, etc.
But social distancing was not possible - stores were BUSY, people weren't staying out of each other's space. They seemed to have the "hurry up and don't dawdle" mindset, but it meant they often reached in front of you to grab the item they wanted, instead of waiting til you moved away.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 7, 2020 9:05:50 GMT -5
Our Menards won't allow folks under 16 in the business. And yes, they ask for proof of age.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 7, 2020 12:29:06 GMT -5
Our Menards won't allow folks under 16 in the business. And yes, they ask for proof of age. This is known as the "Fuck off, single Moms" policy.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on May 7, 2020 17:21:55 GMT -5
The ND county my DD lives in had it's first covid19 positive. A worker at a nursing home. For a long time, there were 17 counties with zero covid. Then they started dropping off one at a time. Now I think H. said there are 13 counties covid free.
That population has to go through all the panic, questioning, distancing, isolating, tracing, fact finding, worrying that the rest or us have been dealing with for 2 months.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on May 7, 2020 19:29:59 GMT -5
Our Menards won't allow folks under 16 in the business. And yes, they ask for proof of age. This is known as the "Fuck off, single Moms" policy. "Single mom MaryAnn Fausey Resendez had to go to the store and had no choice but to bring her 5-year-old daughter along with her. Already prepared for all the judge Judy's she may see, she made a sign and taped it to her daughter's back explaining the situation...and asking whoever was reading it to back up.
Her clever sign read "I am only 5. I can't stay home alone so I have to buy groceries with mommy ... Before you start judging stay back 6 feet." "
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 7, 2020 21:08:57 GMT -5
This is known as the "Fuck off, single Moms" policy. "Single mom MaryAnn Fausey Resendez had to go to the store and had no choice but to bring her 5-year-old daughter along with her. Already prepared for all the judge Judy's she may see, she made a sign and taped it to her daughter's back explaining the situation...and asking whoever was reading it to back up.
Her clever sign read "I am only 5. I can't stay home alone so I have to buy groceries with mommy ... Before you start judging stay back 6 feet." "
I saw that a couple of weeks ago. I know there are stories about people saying nasty things to strangers in the grocery store, but they make the news because they are rare. I know people like to judge, but people also don't care about random folks for the most part. The dirty looks are probably because she hung a sign on her child and people are trying to figure out what is happening.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 7, 2020 23:53:42 GMT -5
I guess the age thing doesn't bother me as much...seeing younger people in stores doesn't bother me...and neither does businesses limiting younger people in stores, either by age or requesting that only 1-2 people per household shop at the business.
If businesses are going to limit occupancy, I think they'll want to make sure most of the occupants are capable of paying.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on May 13, 2020 11:10:12 GMT -5
While I would totally be traceable because of the current apps I have on my phone, my understanding of how the contact tracing apps work for tracing disease is not that the government would know your specific location and what you have been up to, but rather uses encrypted decentralized servers which hide location etc of users and only shows relevant data, so that if your phone comes close to someone who later tests positive for covid, you can be sent a push notification and go into quarantine/get tested. The amount of people who have Facebook or Instagram on their phones would actually have greater privacy with a tracing app than using those apps. However i'm not sure the govt will get the uptake that they will really need. Considering there are people out there attempting to burn down cell towers because "5G caused the virus." My confidence is not high in the general public's ability to make a good risk assessment of a potential government app.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 12:12:13 GMT -5
Since the citizens in this country are never going to agree to government tracking via phone or any other technology, I'd like to see us trying to come up with some plan. It appears we have just given up on testing or a plan...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 13, 2020 12:27:14 GMT -5
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