Just Shut it Down!

[deminmaine]

I was fretting over a couple of pending business ifs today and thought, why not just totally hit the PAUSE button?  

ALL non essential business stop, and people go home.  CLOSE and SHUTTER the stock market. Freeze loan payments and mortgages.  Stop foreclosures and repos.  Postpone all deadlines.  Essential work of course continues- Groceries, bank drive through, utilities, safety, health, and whatever else is deemed necessary.  Everyone else go home.  Set the clock on it.  Two weeks?  Four weeks?  And the economy freezes, for that period.  Checks go out to people so they can buy said groceries and utilities, but the rent is delayed for X weeks- as is the landlords mortgage.  Adjust the edicts like crazy as necessary and logical on the fly to make this work.  

As it is the govt will spend a half a trillion on citizen payouts, plus 1 1/2 trillion on business bailouts and sketchy credit backups and liquidity guarantees, loans and grants to sort of kinda prop things up.  Why not spend a trillion less to just PAUSE it? No Wall Street bailouts.


OK, I know this is half baked and crazy, but I don't know why?  Tell me why this won't work.  (Other than it is now already probably too late- has to happen immediately and fully- I want to hear why the theory won't work?)

[Tennesseer]

If one is under the age of 59 1/2 and they have a 401k, temporarily suspend the 10% early withdrawal penalty.-maybe even suspend the income tax on the distribution until the crisis is over.

[Tiny]

It works great for everyone who isn't employed by a MegaCorp.   Right now I'm the only person working 9-5  (from home) out of my family and friends.   A couple are expecting to get laid off, and the rest are just home.  My MegaCorp has offices across the us and internationally.   Our lights are still on even if it's a tiny fraction of employees in the actual offices.  

I admit, I'm kind of envious of the home and not having to work crowd.... I got a lot of things I could be doing around the house... but I still have to go to work. 

[teen persuasion]

Mar 19, 2020 17:56:01 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I was fretting over a couple of pending business ifs today and thought, why not just totally hit the PAUSE button?  

ALL non essential business stop, and people go home.  CLOSE and SHUTTER the stock market. Freeze loan payments and mortgages.  Stop foreclosures and repos.  Postpone all deadlines.  Essential work of course continues- Groceries, bank drive through, utilities, safety, health, and whatever else is deemed necessary.  Everyone else go home.  Set the clock on it.  Two weeks?  Four weeks?  And the economy freezes, for that period.  Checks go out to people so they can buy said groceries and utilities, but the rent is delayed for X weeks- as is the landlords mortgage.  Adjust the edicts like crazy as necessary and logical on the fly to make this work.  

As it is the govt will spend a half a trillion on citizen payouts, plus 1 1/2 trillion on business bailouts and sketchy credit backups and liquidity guarantees, loans and grants to sort of kinda prop things up.  Why not spend a trillion less to just PAUSE it? No Wall Street bailouts.


OK, I know this is half baked and crazy, but I don't know why?  Tell me why this won't work.  (Other than it is now already probably too late- has to happen immediately and fully- I want to hear why the theory won't work?)

I feel like we are nearly there already. Maybe I'm confusing things the state has decreed with federal stuff; there's so much new stuff each hour it's hard to keep up.

Let's see: 90 day moratorium on mortgage payments; foreclosures frozen; utilities, etc. can't shut off; all schools, bars, bowling alleys, restaurants, etc. closed; those few remaining open and not essential must cut workforce on site to 25% (was 50% just yesterday); 14 day sick leave at all employers (small ones, state pays all, medium ones, state pays some, large ones, employer pays); schools handing out lunches to feed families; testing free (but out of tests currently!), lots of subscription services waiving fees for at least some things like covid news, new internet service for students, learning/tutoring services...

[Deleted]

A lot that I agree with but if you close and shutter the stock market you couldn't get any money out, there wouldn't be any buyers.

[countrygirl2]

We have one tenant off from 6th to 23rd, she said will have to pay the 3rd. That's ok

Just saw where another shut down here is starting Saturday.  Another renter works there, she
is single so should be able to pay for April.

Then the trucker who just got released has not found anything. I said well right now likely all that is hiring is food haulers and maybe drug stores, he goes oh maybe.  The guy has quit so many jobs since he has rented from us I doubt anyone will hire him.  I figure he will be one we will have to tell to move on one day. He is a trump supporter, that explains it all to me.  Maybe he will pay rent from his "free" check.

One works at a nursing home, she already has April paid. PO is an automatic deposit.

We figure if need be we will allow 1 months free rent if folks need it. Beyond that, not sure, have to look at it when the time comes. Bad timing, all the insurance and property taxes are due by end of May. We can pay half the taxes, second half in October. And we could drop insurance on the houses.  Just have to see how it goes. It will sort itself out. Since we have no debt we won't lose them, but might get a bit thin for awhile.  I may not get my hardwood flooring again for awhile, sigh.

[OldCoyote]

I was out today talking to my customers.

It is bad, I will survive, if this stays like this for very long, most of my customers will be gone!!

Frankly. I was stunned at how little business they have.

[deminmaine]

And like that, California just did!  But no cessation on the monetary side.  No one can go to work in non-essential jobs, but the bills don't stop.  The clock should stop on all of it.  Come on Gavin, step up.  Although really only the Feds can really shut the whole dang thang down.

[deminmaine]

Mar 19, 2020 19:21:20 GMT -5 @aj said:

A lot that I agree with but if you close and shutter the stock market you couldn't get any money out, there wouldn't be any buyers.

No, you couldn't.  And you really wouldn't need to.  No bills due other than food, sundries bought.  No sellers, no buyers, the market would be closed and static.  

[alabamagal]

It is a good idea, but the devil is in the details. Biggest thing is how do you define essential or non-essential. There are a lot of places that are one or the other. But what about the services that supply to the essential businesses? Refrigeration businesses that keep freezers in grocery stores? I work in a business that might be essential ( drug manufacturing, but not virus related). We need supplies to run.

[chiver78]

Mar 20, 2020 4:46:34 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

And like that, California just did!  But no cessation on the monetary side.  No one can go to work in non-essential jobs, but the bills don't stop.  The clock should stop on all of it.  Come on Gavin, step up.  Although really only the Feds can really shut the whole dang thang down.

I *just* read about this. Boston.com link

I can't get past the closing paragraphs about a fucking gun store that insists they are 'essential services' right now. AYFKM?! go home and stay there! 

[Deleted]

Mar 20, 2020 4:46:34 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

And like that, California just did!  But no cessation on the monetary side.  No one can go to work in non-essential jobs, but the bills don't stop.  The clock should stop on all of it.  Come on Gavin, step up.  Although really only the Feds can really shut the whole dang thang down.

Expecting to see riots and a lot of social unrest in the coming weeks thanks to little/no financial assistance coming down the pike to all of CA's impoverished, min wage workers, and independent contractors who have no emergency funds and now no income. 

All of the 1099 contractors, former Uber drivers, gig workers, etc... don't even qualify for unemployment. And, I assume the people who do qualify for UI will have an impossible time actually getting payments due to the system being flooded with applications.

[swamp]

NY just shut it down too. 

[mmhmm]

South Carolina has all non-essential state agency, college, and university personnel working from home. Schools are closed until the end of March. No on-site dining in restaurants but drive throughs are still operating. There are 81 known cases (and rising) with 1 death.

[souldoubt]

Mar 20, 2020 11:02:04 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Mar 20, 2020 4:46:34 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

And like that, California just did!  But no cessation on the monetary side.  No one can go to work in non-essential jobs, but the bills don't stop.  The clock should stop on all of it.  Come on Gavin, step up.  Although really only the Feds can really shut the whole dang thang down.

Expecting to see riots and a lot of social unrest in the coming weeks thanks to little/no financial assistance coming down the pike to all of CA's impoverished, min wage workers, and independent contractors who have no emergency funds and now no income. 

All of the 1099 contractors, former Uber drivers, gig workers, etc... don't even qualify for unemployment. And, I assume the people who do qualify for UI will have an impossible time actually getting payments due to the system being flooded with applications.

CA had a surplus last year, a rainy day fund of ~11B and they continue to waste billions on the bullet train which is massively over budget.  Newsom claimed 25M Californians could be infected in 8 weeks while asking for 1B from the feds.  The state has the means to deal with some of what's going on without reaching out to the feds.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 20, 2020 4:46:34 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

And like that, California just did!  But no cessation on the monetary side.  No one can go to work in non-essential jobs, but the bills don't stop.  The clock should stop on all of it.  Come on Gavin, step up.  Although really only the Feds can really shut the whole dang thang down.

we actually have an emergency fund available for this.

we can worry about federal assistance after dumbass is kicked to the curb.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 20, 2020 11:51:25 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

Mar 20, 2020 11:02:04 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Expecting to see riots and a lot of social unrest in the coming weeks thanks to little/no financial assistance coming down the pike to all of CA's impoverished, min wage workers, and independent contractors who have no emergency funds and now no income. 

All of the 1099 contractors, former Uber drivers, gig workers, etc... don't even qualify for unemployment. And, I assume the people who do qualify for UI will have an impossible time actually getting payments due to the system being flooded with applications.

CA had a surplus last year, a rainy day fund of ~11B and they continue to waste billions on the bullet train which is massively over budget.  Newsom claimed 25M Californians could be infected in 8 weeks while asking for 1B from the feds.  The state has the means to deal with some of what's going on without reaching out to the feds.

what we waste money on is none of your business.

states should be offered assistance to deal with CV.  viruses don't care about borders.

[souldoubt]

I live in CA so it's absolutely my business when billions of taxpayer dollars are being wasted on a boondoggle.  The project is massively over budget, has been scoped down and politicians have benefited from the land deals that have been a part of it.  If the state wants to get in on any money the feds are giving out by all means but they can also step up and use what they have at their disposal.   

[djAdvocate]

Mar 20, 2020 12:18:31 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

I live in CA so it's absolutely my business when billions of taxpayer dollars are being wasted on a boondoggle.  The project is massively over budget, has been scoped down and politicians have benefited from the land deals that have been a part of it.  If the state wants to get in on any money the feds are giving out by all means but they can also step up and use what they have at their disposal.   

sorry, I thought you were an outsider.  as a Californian you have every right to complain. my apologies.

I might point out tho that what Californians decide is good for them is what we all have to live with. I don't like many of the decisions made by the majority here, either. I just object to outsiders telling us what to do or not to do.

[souldoubt]

No worries and fair enough because no matter how critical I am of the state I have the same response when people from other states think they know what's best for California.  We've all got opinions but I don't tell anyone else how to run their house and I expect the same courtesy. 

[thyme4change]

Mar 20, 2020 4:46:34 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

And like that, California just did!  But no cessation on the monetary side.  No one can go to work in non-essential jobs, but the bills don't stop.  The clock should stop on all of it.  Come on Gavin, step up.  Although really only the Feds can really shut the whole dang thang down.

I am not sure that a state governor can mandate that out of state companies (credit cards, banks, mortgage companies, car financiers, insurance companies, student loans, etc) can stop collecting. Granted, if everyone stopped paying their mortgage, it would take a long ass time to foreclose on every house in California, plus, they will likely work with you.

That said, my husband is feeling like he has a steady income stream over the next 5 years due to this. He is in bankruptcy law. This is going to take out a lot of businesses and a lot of people.

[djAdvocate]

new claims for UE are going to be up an estimated 2M this week.

you read that right.

[deminmaine]

Mar 20, 2020 12:51:06 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Mar 20, 2020 4:46:34 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

And like that, California just did!  But no cessation on the monetary side.  No one can go to work in non-essential jobs, but the bills don't stop.  The clock should stop on all of it.  Come on Gavin, step up.  Although really only the Feds can really shut the whole dang thang down.

I am not sure that a state governor can mandate that out of state companies (credit cards, banks, mortgage companies, car financiers, insurance companies, student loans, etc) can stop collecting. Granted, if everyone stopped paying their mortgage, it would take a long ass time to foreclose on every house in California, plus, they will likely work with you.

That said, my husband is feeling like he has a steady income stream over the next 5 years due to this. He is in bankruptcy law. This is going to take out a lot of businesses and a lot of people.

I think you are absolutely right.  This really would have to be top down from the Feds, with cooperation with the states.

[deminmaine]

Mar 20, 2020 12:53:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

new claims for UE are going to be up an estimated 2M this week.

you read that right.

Mnuchen said earlier that unemployment could top 20% before trump shut him up.  All those "non-essential" people are a large swath of the economy!

[deminmaine]

Mar 20, 2020 7:46:10 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

It is a good idea, but the devil is in the details. Biggest thing is how do you define essential or non-essential. There are a lot of places that are one or the other. But what about the services that supply to the essential businesses? Refrigeration businesses that keep freezers in grocery stores? I work in a business that might be essential ( drug manufacturing, but not virus related). We need supplies to run.

Absolutely, which is why you would have to constantly tinker with it as you go forward.  Refrigeration maintenance?  Yup, add it to the list!

[teen persuasion]

Cuomo calls for 100% workforce reduction, bans outdoor basketball games, parties

New York State is being put on "pause" to contain the novel coronavirus spread, with new mandates on nonessential workers and restricting the movements and behavior by the most vulnerable population to the virus.

Nonessential gatherings of people – at private parties, at outdoor basketball games, kids playing in groups and an array of settings – will be banned. "These are legal provisions. They will be enforced,'' Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo

There are now 7,102 confirmed cases; 2,950 are new since Thursday.

Robert Mujica, the state budget director, said the state – as it must do by law – will also be changing its income tax filing deadline from April 15 to July 15.

Significantly for many businesses, those companies that fail to meet today's periodic deadline for the submission to the state of sales tax receipts will not face penalties or interest payments, Mujica said at the State Capitol Friday morning.

The state is also asking internet service providers to increase capacity – as well as data usage limits for consumers who have such plans – at no charge. Cuomo said the internet capacity is needed to help people who are now working from home.

Also on hold for 90 days: evictions of residential and commercial tenants who might be, for instance, behind on their rent.