We need to get over ourselves

[Deleted]

Rant ahead.

I get real damn testy when I hear people make sweeping generalizations about other cultures and especially when they're made about places they haven't been, people they don't know, cultures they know nothing about. Assumptions about how people in other countries live. Criticism of their ability or inability to speak English, to do things the "American way."

Criticism of immigrants' English...what? Most of those immigrants speak their native tongue and speak English, too, some more fluently than others, but those immigrants are bi-lingual. Not all of us can say the same.

And they're also brave. After all, they left hearth and home and came here, left their families and everything familiar to them. How many of us would do that, especially if we didn't speak the language or didn't speak it well and try to navigate the ins and outs of everyday life in the US?

I did that once, moved to a foreign country. It was beyond hard. Beyond frustrating. Like being born full-grown without the ability to speak. And...I spoke the language.

I get tired of so many Americans assuming that people in other countries all live in mud huts, have the morals of alley cats, and eat out of cans.

Flame away.

[TheOtherMe]

I won't flame.  

My older half sister's in laws were Mexican immigrants.  They were migrant labor.  They raised their children in the fields and impressed upon them that they did not want their children working the fields.  My brother-in-law worked in a bottling company and was a manager when he retired.

Dnephew1 is married to a Ukrainian immigrant.  She came to the US under a program to get a college education.  She is one of the smartest people I have ever met in my life.  She has a slight accent, but I can understand her without difficulty.  She is bilingual, speaking Russian, Ukrainian and English fluently.  As a student, it was very difficult for her because she couldn't work as an undergraduate and so didn't have the money to go home in the summer.  When she got to grad school, she was able to work at the university and visited home more often.  

I am sad that she says their soon to be born son will not be taught Russian.  I hope they change their minds.  I have been pleased that my niece is starting to make Ukrainian meals.  Maybe she will soften on the langugage.

She is now a US citizen and better educated than me.  I hear about the way her grandmother lives in Ukraine.  She is very poor and lives without running water.  She is allowed two buckets of water a day.  She has to go to a central spot every single day to get her water.  This woman is 95 years old and carries two buckets of water daily back to her home.

When nephew and his wife are visiting, they go visit daily and go with her to get her water.  She won't hear of letting them go alone to bring her the water because she likes to make sure everyone else in line knows that she has someone to carry her water.

[haapai]

No flames here either.  I spent a good chunk of my childhood in what were then called third-world countries and even though many, many people spoke English, I was lost and vulnerable every time we moved.  Heck, I'm 51 now, but if you dropped me in Canada or the UK right now, somehow magically employed, I'd still be lost, confused, vulnerable and suspicious.  

Immigrants are brave. 

[weltschmerz]

I get real damn testy when I hear people make sweeping generalizations about other cultures and especially when they're made about places they haven't been, people they don't know, cultures they know nothing about. Assumptions about how people in other countries live.

I belong to another board, where most Americans assume Canada is a backward country with nothing but moose and maple syrup.
Truth is, Montreal is the biggest Artificial Intelligence and Deep Hub Learning Center in all of North America. It hosts the largest concentration of academic researchers in all the world.
We're more than maple syrup and hockey.

[Deleted]

Makes me wonder what educated people in other countries think of us. We certainly have our share of uneducated, marginally employed/unemployed citizens, who live in poverty and squalor, a hand-to-mouth existence with little hope for their futures or the futures of their children.

weltschmerz something I miss about living in the UP is that every night at 9 we'd watch Peter Mansbridge on The National and often get a glimpse of what Canadians thought about the US and our politics. It happened more than once that we had the *smug* smacked right out of us.

It was also jarring to watch the news when I lived abroad. From time to time, I still watch Al Jazeera (shhhh!). I'll be seen as a heretic.

[haapai]

Mar 5, 2020 16:19:34 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

It was also jarring to watch the news when I lived abroad. From time to time, I still watch Al Jazeera (shhhh!). I'll be seen as a heretic.

You ain't no heretic.  I was raised listening to the BBC and, when stateside, CBC came in better than several local stations.  I still routinely turn to those outlets when I want to get perspective.  I also read quite a bit on Al-Jazeera English when there is no other free link to click on. 

(I learned to avoid VOA a long time ago.  They were always remarkably mealy-mouthed and slow to report that they made the Christian Science Monitor seem like a hard-news organization.) 

I wish that I could shove an Economist subscription your way.  I think that you would get a kick out of it. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Not gonna get a flame from me either.

We just got back from Argentina, where I desperately wished I spoke Spanish.  It would have made my life a hell of a lot easier.  My HS French was virtually useless, and made me really wish I had taken advantage of a job offer I had 30 years ago working on a project in Switzerland.  

So yeah.....anyone who comes here not speaking the language gets my respect.

[busymom]

No flames here.  The last two neighborhoods DH & I have lived in, we've had immigrants for neighbors.  And let me tell you, even those with excellent educations in other countries often have to "start over" here, because our country won't recognize whatever college/university education as "good enough", for example, to teach, or to practice medicine.  Yet, their work ethic, and will to succeed is impressive.  Also, they've been some of the kindest neighbors we've ever had.  And, guess who's usually the first to offer help if they notice a problem?  I've learned over the years that those with the most difficult lives are often the most generous with their time, whatever their race.  


And, a pox on those who tell them to "go back home".  What's up with the asshats who say things like that, anyway?

[TheOtherMe]

Niece who is from Ukraine has been told she is taking jobs and to go home since she became an American citizen.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Mar 5, 2020 17:04:20 GMT -5 busymom said:

No flames here.  The last two neighborhoods DH & I have lived in, we've had immigrants for neighbors.  And let me tell you, even those with excellent educations in other countries often have to "start over" here, because our country won't recognize whatever college/university education as "good enough", for example, to teach, or to practice medicine.  Yet, their work ethic, and will to succeed in impressive.  Also, they've been some of the kindest neighbors we've ever had.  And, guess who's usually the first to offer help if they notice a problem?  I've learned over the years that those with the most difficult lives are often the most generous with their time, whatever their race.  


And, a pox on those who tell them to "go back home".  What's up with the asshats who say things like that, anyway?

One of my favorite visiting scientists was a guy who came over to work in our lab from China.  He came to the US with $100 in cash on him, leaving behind his wife and daughter.  He was a physician, his wife had a doctorate and ran one of the country's labs.  I know that the chair advanced him enough money to get set up, and everyone donated what they had extra (I think I gave him a set of dishes and some towels).  The guy would do ANYTHING for you.

Ultimately, he got his wife and daughter over.  Bought a house and he is now running his own lab as he cannot practice medicine, working with his wife.  His English is not very good, but he can make himself be understood (and it's a hell of a lot better than my Chinese).  His daughter is now an ophthalmologist in Chicago, where she went on a full ride scholarship.  All became citizens as soon as they could do so.   
Larry and his wife definitely made my research life easier and did tremendous things in my field.  His wife made killer pot stickers and she would NOT give me her recipe for them.  I still resent that!

[ners]

As someone who has never lived anywhere but the state I where I was born.  I am very impressed by the international students who attend the college I where I work.  

I could not imagine moving that far from home and need to learn a different language and culture.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Mar 5, 2020 16:19:34 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Makes me wonder what educated people in other countries think of us. We certainly have our share of uneducated, marginally employed/unemployed citizens, who live in poverty and squalor, a hand-to-mouth existence with little hope for their futures or the futures of their children.

weltschmerz something I miss about living in the UP is that every night at 9 we'd watch Peter Mansbridge on The National and often get a glimpse of what Canadians thought about the US and our politics. It happened more than once that we had the *smug* smacked right out of us.

It was also jarring to watch the news when I lived abroad. From time to time, I still watch Al Jazeera (shhhh!). I'll be seen as a heretic.

I've been told the American tourist stereotype exists for a reason.

My German boss did say to be fair tourists from his country are just as rude.

You can tell which is which before anyone speaks by looking at the socks they wear. He said Americans tend to wear white socks and sandals. Germans wear black socks.

No he does not wear sandals and socks. He answered that because he could see he set himself up for me to ask. Lol.

[Ryan]

Mar 5, 2020 15:25:58 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Rant ahead.

I get real damn testy when I hear people make sweeping generalizations about other cultures and especially when they're made about places they haven't been, people they don't know, cultures they know nothing about. Assumptions about how people in other countries live. Criticism of their ability or inability to speak English, to do things the "American way."

Criticism of immigrants' English...what? Most of those immigrants speak their native tongue and speak English, too, some more fluently than others, but those immigrants are bi-lingual. Not all of us can say the same.

And they're also brave. After all, they left hearth and home and came here, left their families and everything familiar to them. How many of us would do that, especially if we didn't speak the language or didn't speak it well and try to navigate the ins and outs of everyday life in the US?

I did that once, moved to a foreign country. It was beyond hard. Beyond frustrating. Like being born full-grown without the ability to speak. And...I spoke the language.

I get tired of so many Americans assuming that people in other countries all live in mud huts, have the morals of alley cats, and eat out of cans.

Flame away.

Speaking of sweeping generalizations.  Hearing something like this is the exception, I can't remember the last time I heard something like what you're describing.

[busymom]

Mar 5, 2020 17:50:10 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Mar 5, 2020 15:25:58 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Rant ahead.

I get real damn testy when I hear people make sweeping generalizations about other cultures and especially when they're made about places they haven't been, people they don't know, cultures they know nothing about. Assumptions about how people in other countries live. Criticism of their ability or inability to speak English, to do things the "American way."

Criticism of immigrants' English...what? Most of those immigrants speak their native tongue and speak English, too, some more fluently than others, but those immigrants are bi-lingual. Not all of us can say the same.

And they're also brave. After all, they left hearth and home and came here, left their families and everything familiar to them. How many of us would do that, especially if we didn't speak the language or didn't speak it well and try to navigate the ins and outs of everyday life in the US?

I did that once, moved to a foreign country. It was beyond hard. Beyond frustrating. Like being born full-grown without the ability to speak. And...I spoke the language.

I get tired of so many Americans assuming that people in other countries all live in mud huts, have the morals of alley cats, and eat out of cans.

Flame away.

Speaking of sweeping generalizations.  Hearing something like this is the exception, I can't remember the last time I heard something like what you're describing.

     Ever lived in the South?  Yes, you hear some pretty nasty things about immigrants.  They're definitely meaner here, than back in the Midwest, and I've heard some disturbing comments there, too.  'Merica!  

[Deleted]

Ryan Did you miss Trump's references to Mexicans as criminals, drug dealers, rapists, and his comment about Haiti, El Salvador, and an assortment of African nations as shit hole countries?

[haapai]

Mar 5, 2020 17:55:31 GMT -5 busymom said:

Mar 5, 2020 17:50:10 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Speaking of sweeping generalizations.  Hearing something like this is the exception, I can't remember the last time I heard something like what you're describing.

     Ever lived in the South?  Yes, you hear some pretty nasty things about immigrants.  They're definitely meaner here, than back in the Midwest, and I've heard some disturbing comments there, too.  'Merica!  

I came back from a two-year stint in sub-Saharan Africa in 1977 and tried to resettle in my Midwestern home town.  I was seven. 

I heard some things that made a mark on me.  Forty years later, I can't remember either the words or the context, but I sure was glad to leave the US and go back to sub-Saharan Africa after that.  Somehow, the folks in a country with a 40-60% adult literacy rate seemed saner, or better informed, or just less mean.  

[Gardening Grandma]

I was an expat as a child.  I negotiated two cultures every day, living among the locals and taking a train to school on a military base, then back home again.  It's not easy switching gears (language, customs) back and forth.

I get really annoyed at the stereotypes and racial slurs towards people who were friends.  This idea that "we are the best" is so ridiculous.  We are great at some things and not at all great at others.  

[NastyWoman]

I feel loved

[TheOtherMe]

Mar 5, 2020 18:52:10 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I feel loved

You are loved  

[Tiny]

Mar 5, 2020 17:50:10 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Mar 5, 2020 15:25:58 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Rant ahead.

I get real damn testy when I hear people make sweeping generalizations about other cultures and especially when they're made about places they haven't been, people they don't know, cultures they know nothing about. Assumptions about how people in other countries live. Criticism of their ability or inability to speak English, to do things the "American way."

Criticism of immigrants' English...what? Most of those immigrants speak their native tongue and speak English, too, some more fluently than others, but those immigrants are bi-lingual. Not all of us can say the same.

And they're also brave. After all, they left hearth and home and came here, left their families and everything familiar to them. How many of us would do that, especially if we didn't speak the language or didn't speak it well and try to navigate the ins and outs of everyday life in the US?

I did that once, moved to a foreign country. It was beyond hard. Beyond frustrating. Like being born full-grown without the ability to speak. And...I spoke the language.

I get tired of so many Americans assuming that people in other countries all live in mud huts, have the morals of alley cats, and eat out of cans.

Flame away.

Speaking of sweeping generalizations.  Hearing something like this is the exception, I can't remember the last time I heard something like what you're describing.

Not really directly immigrant but still....

I assume some radio or TV celebrity mentioned that "of course, the coronavirus spread so fast in China - they just pull down their pants and shit in the street"  cause  just today I was told that by a relative.  Who in the same breath scoffed and implied  that if China wasn't so backward their people wouldn't have died.   Americans wouldn't die from the virus.  All you need to do is wash your hands to avoid the coronavirus.   to which I responded: "Um, OK."  

I like big cities and believe me China has some Big Cities that makes the Big City I live in look like a back water town.   I am amazed by what people parrot back... I'm assuming my relative is aware that China is just as civilized as America - probably more so. 

I hear criticisms of immigrants ALL the time... they are usually veiled in a "those people" kind of way - but they are criticisms.    I even heard a college student blame his inability to pass a class on the idea that the class was mostly 'latinos' and you know the class had to be dumbed down for them and since the class was so easy, he was bored and therefore didn't apply himself because  it was a waste of his time.  Not to mention his tests (essays, projects, coding)  the teacher graded him harder than the other brown students.      How does one even respond to that?    I think I said something along the lines of "oh, I'm so sorry you're having a hard time. Maybe you should try a different major". 

And my favorite blast from the past - 25 years ago when I had just bought a house (from an estate - so I never met the owners)  and was speaking with the neighbors over the fence as I was working in the yard - I was informed that the previous owners were "clean".   my response:   "Um, OK. That's nice."     To this day, I'm not sure what exactly that meant but I suspect it had something to do with the ethnic background of the previous owners....    (The house was a fixer upper - nothing had been done to the house in 20 years - so it needed cleaning and repairs and some updates - nothing out of the ordinary).

[Tiny]

Mar 5, 2020 15:25:58 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

 

Flame away.

No flame from me.    I'm often baffled by the things that come out of the mouths of people who I thought would know better (or have enough life experience to not even consider saying that kind of stuff).    
 

[countrygirl2]

My grandson will not be racist and I'm thankful for that. I am so glad we got our kids out of here. these people think anyone with a tan is lazy and illegal I guess.  Fools that they are.

So grandson has Russian grandparents, son is making sure DIL speaks to him in Russian too, he wants him to be fluent.  She is good about it.  But sadly after many years she does not read or write English well, she always reverts to Russian.  I just want her to do more for herself, she has to send me pictures of English med instructions at times if son is gone.  The other day called because she needed a plumber and did not know how to find one in English. I know it has to be incredibly hard but I would do it to not be dependent on others.  I worry if something happens to son she will lose everything, and with son and us she could have a lot of money and property. I have made him promise me he will do a will and set up for son to have a guardian, I doubt he has yet.  They need protected.


But grandson has Russian family and his uncle is Puerto Rican. Son has friends of every nationality.  I think its wonderful and he will grow up in the new world with less prejudice.  So far he doesn't see DD as different either, DIL makes a special effort with that also.  He always asked for her when we talk.


By the way he will be down around May 22nd to stay with us for awhile, we are excited.


And yes she was brave, she almost got caught up in sex trafficking and fought back.  She said the Russians actually arrested the guy and she said that was unheard of.

[wvugurl26]

My brother and his best friend took a job at DC Metro straight out of high school. The country boys were in the big city learning their way around. An immigrant from Vietnam took them under his wing and taught them how to work safely.

Later on my brother ended up renting a room from him. When I moved to the area years later, he made room for me until I could get my own apartment. I went back 2 years later and had my own little suite with bathroom. I stayed until I got married.

He would do anything to help a friend out.

There are crappy people in every country. The country of your birth doesn't determine your character.

[chiver78]

Mar 5, 2020 17:47:38 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Mar 5, 2020 16:19:34 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Makes me wonder what educated people in other countries think of us. We certainly have our share of uneducated, marginally employed/unemployed citizens, who live in poverty and squalor, a hand-to-mouth existence with little hope for their futures or the futures of their children.

weltschmerz something I miss about living in the UP is that every night at 9 we'd watch Peter Mansbridge on The National and often get a glimpse of what Canadians thought about the US and our politics. It happened more than once that we had the *smug* smacked right out of us.

It was also jarring to watch the news when I lived abroad. From time to time, I still watch Al Jazeera (shhhh!). I'll be seen as a heretic.

I've been told the American tourist stereotype exists for a reason.

My German boss did say to be fair tourists from his country are just as rude.

You can tell which is which before anyone speaks by looking at the socks they wear. He said Americans tend to wear white socks and sandals. Germans wear black socks.

No he does not wear sandals and socks. He answered that because he could see he set himself up for me to ask. Lol.

having travelled with various coworkers around Europe, it absolutely does. 🙄 I remember my asshat boss in France, answering a 'bonjour' with 'good morning!' every day to random folks. I'm sorry,you can at least learn basic greetings. that's just polite.

no flames from me, miss rigby. I think you are spot on.

[gs11rmb]

Mar 5, 2020 17:47:38 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Mar 5, 2020 16:19:34 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

I've been told the American tourist stereotype exists for a reason.

My German boss did say to be fair tourists from his country are just as rude.

You can tell which is which before anyone speaks by looking at the socks they wear. He said Americans tend to wear white socks and sandals. Germans wear black socks.

No he does not wear sandals and socks. He answered that because he could see he set himself up for me to ask. Lol.

The British also are notorious for only speaking English.  I remember a great comedy sketch where the gist was "if they don't understand you the first time (in English) SPEAK LOUDER".

Germans are the worst for getting up at 4 am to put towels on beach chairs and 'claim' them for the day  .

[swamp]

And japanese tourist have no concept of personal bubbles.     OMG, lady, back up!!! 

[finnime]

I live in an area with many immigrants from all over. I'm always deeply impressed with certain jobs, no highly paid, staffed by bi- and tri-lingual people, such as clerks, receptionists, food servers, etc. They get paid no more but absolutely must speak multiple languages to do their work.

In the U.S., we are all immigrants with the exception of Native Americans. Three of my grandparents came from Finland. The fourth came from Britain, originally in the early 1600's. I think I'm not unusual.

[swamp]

I've been to France, Spain, and Italy.  

The US could take some tips from them in certain areas.  

[Deleted]

Mar 6, 2020 9:44:32 GMT -5 swamp said:

I've been to France, Spain, and Italy.  

The US could take some tips from them in certain areas.  

US citizens in another country should always remember that they're the guests.

US citizens also need to recognize that while the American way is fine for Americans, other countries have their own ways that are fine for them. Truth and justice and the American Way. Fine in America. Not fine in, for instance, Norway or Brazil or Iceland or Vietnam.

[swamp]

Mar 6, 2020 10:05:34 GMT -5 @missrigby said:

Mar 6, 2020 9:44:32 GMT -5 swamp said:

I've been to France, Spain, and Italy.  

The US could take some tips from them in certain areas.  

US citizens in another country should always remember that they're the guests.

US citizens also need to recognize that while the American way is fine for Americans, other countries have their own ways that are fine for them. Truth and justice and the American Way. Fine in America. Not fine in, for instance, Norway or Brazil or Iceland or Vietnam.

Agreed. 

I love seeing how other cultures live.  Sometimes i think "what a great idea!" and other times "WTF?"    But I know not to say WTF when I'm there.