thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 19, 2020 19:18:11 GMT -5
It looks like you can now become president and do whatever you want. So, legalizing weed and shooting someone in the middle of fifth Avenue (as long as you believe that it is in the best interest of the country) can be the first two things you do. I have no idea where you’re going with this, I have many disagreements with this administration, I just think they got the Blago commutation correct even though I have a different opinion on why it was warranted. Pardon power is in the constitution, there have been several I have personally disagreed with in several administrations, but that is one area Trump is not overstepping his bounds, unless you are talking pardoning himself, I strongly disagree that is allowed. Just a comment about how presidential power has expanded over the past few decades, and Trump has taken it further, setting a new precedent for future presidents. I would have said it to anyone. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 19, 2020 23:38:39 GMT -5
... Pardon power is in the constitution, ... that is one area Trump is not overstepping his bounds, ... A question: Is it possible that a President could issue pardons that are so egregious that a person of good conscience would not be able to swing open the prison gate? The President does have the Constitutional power to pardon anyone so, an absurd example, could set free everyone imprisoned for mass murder. Would that be crossing a boundary of respect for the safety of the general population that we should expect from our President? I, and I hope you, would say that it is. So I would argue it is possible for a President to do something he or she has the Constitutional power to do and overstep his or her bounds in doing so. Clearly President Trump has not issued any pardons so outrageous that they need to be thwarted but I think it is a legitimate issue for voters to consider if he has overstepped their bounds of acceptable use of Presidential power. |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 20, 2020 6:23:52 GMT -5
... Pardon power is in the constitution, ... that is one area Trump is not overstepping his bounds, ... A question: Is it possible that a President could issue pardons that are so egregious that a person of good conscience would not be able to swing open the prison gate? The President does have the Constitutional power to pardon anyone so, an absurd example, could set free everyone imprisoned for mass murder. Would that be crossing a boundary of respect for the safety of the general population that we should expect from our President? I, and I hope you, would say that it is. So I would argue it is possible for a President to do something he or she has the Constitutional power to do and overstep his or her bounds in doing so. Clearly President Trump has not issued any pardons so outrageous that they need to be thwarted but I think it is a legitimate issue for voters to consider if he has overstepped their bounds of acceptable use of Presidential power. I don't know what Trump would have to do to lose his supporters. They can justify anything. The problem we have is we think serial killers and mass murderers are the worst of the worst. Don't get me wrong, they suck and each one can ruin dozens of lives. But we think white collar crimes are somewhat victimless. But in reality, tolerance of corruption like selling Senate seats can ruin a whole country. If you look at countries that have crumbled - it is driven by government corruption, not a few murders. You can find stories of people who pull these scams where they take people's money and houses and those people's lives are in shambles. But, hey, no one got murdered, so the guy gets 3 years in jail. Honestly, I would give some clemency to select murderers if we could stop a few of the most dangerous people to our economy and government institutions. |
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 20, 2020 8:44:36 GMT -5
Trump University fraud settled for $23 million as the Impeached One approached the White House. No jail time for that hardened criminal.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Feb 20, 2020 9:45:20 GMT -5
I have to disagree. Despite 5 of the counts being overturned on appeal, the core of his wrongful conduct remained. In my opinion he got what he deserved. He was facing more time than that, and was serving concurrent (not consecutive) sentences. When they're concurrent, knocking a few counts off the conviction doesn't necessarily reduce the sentence. Federal prisoners only serve 85% of their sentences in most cases. So you seriously thought he deserved 14 years for that? I thought 7 years was pretty substantial and appropriate. I'm just not sure what keeping him locked up for 7 more years in a camp without a fence in Colorado is accomplishing with the taxpayer footing the bill that 7 years hasn't already done. At the time, did you seriously think a 7 year sentence was appropriate? He was sentenced according to the sentencing guidelines. At the time, I seriously thought he deserved 14 years (at 85%), and I still seriously think he deserved it. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2020 10:44:28 GMT -5
Selling weed v. a Senate seat - I thought for sentencing the contrast was interesting: ... US Border Patrol agents found 157 pounds of marijuana in a car, officials said.
. ... charged in a federal complaint with conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute marijuana and possession intent to distribute, .... If convicted, they could face up to 20 years in federal prison. link |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 20, 2020 12:12:48 GMT -5
The 11 Criminals Granted Clemency by Trump Had One Thing in Common: ConnectionsWASHINGTON — Early Tuesday morning, Bernard Kerik’s telephone rang. On the line was David Safavian, a friend and fellow former government official who like Kerik was once imprisoned for misconduct. Safavian had life-changing news. Safavian, who had ties to the White House, said that he was putting together a letter asking President Donald Trump to pardon Kerik, the former New York City police commissioner who pleaded guilty to tax fraud and other charges. Safavian needed names of supporters to sign the letter. By noon. Kerik hit the phones. Shortly after 10 a.m., he reached Geraldo Rivera, the Fox News correspondent and a friend of Trump’s. Rivera, who described Kerik as “an American hero,” instantly agreed to sign the one-page letter. Kerik called Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., and when Safavian reached King around 10:30, he too agreed to sign. At 11:57 a.m., Kerik’s phone rang again. This time it was the president. Complete article here: The 11 Criminals Granted Clemency by Trump Had One Thing in Common: Connections
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 20, 2020 12:54:38 GMT -5
Let's see how long it takes trump to commute Stone's prison sentence and pardon him of any and all crimes. Roger Stone Is Sentenced to Over 3 Years in PrisonThe sentencing played out amid extraordinary upheaval at the Justice Department and a virtual standoff between the president and the attorney general. WASHINGTON — Roger J. Stone Jr., the Republican political consultant who for years portrayed himself as the dirty trickster of American politics, was sentenced Thursday to more than three years prison for obstructing a congressional inquiry in a bid to protect President Trump. The case against Mr. Stone, 67, a longtime friend of Mr. Trump’s, had become a cause célèbre among the president’s supporters. Mr. Trump has attacked the prosecutors, the jury forewoman and the federal judge overseeing the trial, casting his former campaign adviser as the victim of a vendetta by law enforcement. Complete article here: Roger Stone Is Sentenced to Over 3 Years in Prison |
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Feb 20, 2020 13:33:35 GMT -5
Just for a reminder... Quote; By the end of his second and final term on January 20, 2017, United States President Barack Obama had exercised his constitutional power to grant the executive clemency—that is, " pardon, commutation of sentence, remission of fine or restitution, and reprieve" —to 1,927 individuals convicted of federal crimes.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Barack_ObamaFrom that Wikipedia entry: "Most individuals granted executive clemency by Obama had been convicted on drug charges, and had received lengthy and sometimes mandatory sentences at the height of the war on drugs." |
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Feb 20, 2020 13:41:07 GMT -5
Just for a reminder... Quote; By the end of his second and final term on January 20, 2017, United States President Barack Obama had exercised his constitutional power to grant the executive clemency—that is, " pardon, commutation of sentence, remission of fine or restitution, and reprieve" —to 1,927 individuals convicted of federal crimes.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Barack_ObamaAnd? |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2020 14:03:53 GMT -5
... All presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right. ... That is the interesting part of the discussion to me. What do the pardons issued reflect on what different Presidents think is right? |
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Feb 20, 2020 14:06:28 GMT -5
And...you brought up Obama's pardons.
Most of them were for drug related offenses.
Yes, "all presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right". Apparently Mr. Trump thinks political corruption and financial crimes are OK.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 20, 2020 14:30:13 GMT -5
And...you brought up Obama's pardons. Most of them were for drug related offenses. Yes, "all presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right". Apparently Mr. Trump thinks political corruption and financial crimes are OK. nailed it.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 20, 2020 15:51:16 GMT -5
... All presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right. ... That is the interesting part of the discussion to me. What do the pardons issued reflect on what different Presidents think is right?  |
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 20, 2020 15:51:31 GMT -5
And...you brought up Obama's pardons. Most of them were for drug related offenses. Yes, "all presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right". Apparently Mr. Trump thinks political corruption and financial crimes are OK.nailed it.
Not to mention the pardoning of war crimes. Trump pardons fraudsters, scammers, tax evaders and people who have helped themselves to others' money, more commonly known as thieves. You know, pardoning those who are exactly like him. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 20, 2020 16:29:55 GMT -5
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 20, 2020 18:44:21 GMT -5
Steven Colbert is going to be heart broken  |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 20, 2020 19:42:46 GMT -5
The reminder... The thread title regards Trump pardoning criminals. He wasn't the only one pardoning criminals. He seems to be quite behind in the total, in regards to the previous Administration. (precedents, the OP, etc.) My point ? All presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right. Some more than others. Obama pardoned a bunch of low level drug criminals in order to send a message that he thought the existing laws that require prison time for holding small amounts of drugs were excessive. What message do you think Trump is sending by pardoning a bunch of white collar criminals who were mostly convicted of corruption sends? |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 20, 2020 20:01:56 GMT -5
The reminder... The thread title regards Trump pardoning criminals. He wasn't the only one pardoning criminals. He seems to be quite behind in the total, in regards to the previous Administration. (precedents, the OP, etc.) My point ? All presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right. Some more than others. Obama pardoned a bunch of low level drug criminals in order to send a message that he thought the existing laws that require prison time for holding small amounts of drugs were excessive. What message do you think Trump is sending by pardoning a bunch of white collar criminals who were mostly convicted of corruption sends? Convicted of corruption, much of it related to Trump's activities. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 20, 2020 23:55:12 GMT -5
Obama pardoned a bunch of low level drug criminals in order to send a message that he thought the existing laws that require prison time for holding small amounts of drugs were excessive. What message do you think Trump is sending by pardoning a bunch of white collar criminals who were mostly convicted of corruption sends? Convicted of corruption, much of it related to Trump's activities. he thinks it is providing cover. it is actually deepening the case against him. |
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Feb 21, 2020 6:26:54 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 11:26:25 GMT -5
So you seriously thought he deserved 14 years for that? I thought 7 years was pretty substantial and appropriate. I'm just not sure what keeping him locked up for 7 more years in a camp without a fence in Colorado is accomplishing with the taxpayer footing the bill that 7 years hasn't already done. At the time, did you seriously think a 7 year sentence was appropriate? He was sentenced according to the sentencing guidelines. At the time, I seriously thought he deserved 14 years (at 85%), and I still seriously think he deserved it. I thought 6 years was appropriate at the time. Not a Blago supporter politically at all, I regret I voted for him once for Governor. |
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Feb 21, 2020 12:22:01 GMT -5
The reminder... The thread title regards Trump pardoning criminals. He wasn't the only one pardoning criminals. He seems to be quite behind in the total, in regards to the previous Administration. (precedents, the OP, etc.) My point ? All presidents pardon criminals in regards to what they think is right. Some more than others. Obama pardoned a bunch of low level drug criminals in order to send a message that he thought the existing laws that require prison time for holding small amounts of drugs were excessive. What message do you think Trump is sending by pardoning a bunch of white collar criminals who were mostly convicted of corruption sends? Let's see there was bank robbery, embezzlement, wire fraud, small amount of drugs oh lets see there was 1000 pounds of weed...yea all low level offenses |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 12:30:17 GMT -5
... Pardon power is in the constitution, ... that is one area Trump is not overstepping his bounds, ... A question: Is it possible that a President could issue pardons that are so egregious that a person of good conscience would not be able to swing open the prison gate? The President does have the Constitutional power to pardon anyone so, an absurd example, could set free everyone imprisoned for mass murder. Would that be crossing a boundary of respect for the safety of the general population that we should expect from our President? I, and I hope you, would say that it is. So I would argue it is possible for a President to do something he or she has the Constitutional power to do and overstep his or her bounds in doing so. Clearly President Trump has not issued any pardons so outrageous that they need to be thwarted but I think it is a legitimate issue for voters to consider if he has overstepped their bounds of acceptable use of Presidential power. Completely agree it is an issue for the voters to decide on. A very interesting scenario in your first paragraph, something that would have be remedied through impeachment. I agree it is a horrible scenario. I think Congress would simply have to consider it a "high crime" even though it isn't specifically on the books. Also I think it falls under the 25th amendment for cabinet removal from office. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 21, 2020 12:35:04 GMT -5
... A very interesting scenario in your first paragraph, something that would have be remedied through impeachment. I agree it is a horrible scenario. I think Congress would simply have to consider it a "high crime" even though it isn't specifically on the books. I think it would need to be a 25th Amendment action because of the need for speed. You were obviously editing while I was typing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 12:38:51 GMT -5
... A very interesting scenario in your first paragraph, something that would have be remedied through impeachment. I agree it is a horrible scenario. I think Congress would simply have to consider it a "high crime" even though it isn't specifically on the books. I think it would need to be a 25th Amendment action because of the need for speed. You were obviously editing while I was typing.Yup, that last part hit me while I was hitting "create post" |
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 21, 2020 13:31:51 GMT -5
Obama pardoned a bunch of low level drug criminals in order to send a message that he thought the existing laws that require prison time for holding small amounts of drugs were excessive. What message do you think Trump is sending by pardoning a bunch of white collar criminals who were mostly convicted of corruption sends? Let's see there was bank robbery, embezzlement, wire fraud, small amount of drugs oh lets see there was 1000 pounds of weed...yea all low level offenses I didn’t say ALL of them were low level drug offenders I said a lot of them were. Frankly I’d rather let some guy selling half a ton of weed walk than someone trying to sell a senate seat. Stoners tend to be a lot more laid back and cheerful than crooked politicians trying to grift their way to tons of cash |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 21, 2020 13:40:46 GMT -5
Obama pardoned a bunch of low level drug criminals in order to send a message that he thought the existing laws that require prison time for holding small amounts of drugs were excessive. What message do you think Trump is sending by pardoning a bunch of white collar criminals who were mostly convicted of corruption sends? Let's see there was bank robbery, embezzlement, wire fraud, small amount of drugs oh lets see there was 1000 pounds of weed...yea all low level offenses Do you have a link to the case with the half ton of weed? |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 21, 2020 14:02:53 GMT -5
This link has some interesting information: link |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 21, 2020 15:26:48 GMT -5
I've used the 'Office of Pardon Attorney' in the past also. Yes, it is great resource. I wish it was used more. |
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