ontrack
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Post by ontrack on Apr 11, 2011 9:52:00 GMT -5
[quote author=michelyn8 board=finance thread=6215 post=247884 time=1302523756 I have never had my net income increase after electing or increasing my 401k contribution. The bottom line all depends on your gross, the number of the withholding you have and your other withholdings - pre and post tax.
[/quote]
Your net pay would never actually increase, it would just decrease less than the increase going to your 401k.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 10:21:23 GMT -5
I changed our witholding last week and we both turned them in last Monday. - I got a raise of $35.70/week after taxes ;D - My wife was able to increase her 401k from 20 to 25% but her check increased by a grand total of $ 0. 15/biweekly ;D ;D Why didn't I do this since last year... stupid me This is one of those things that I call the 401k party line. I remember my first 401k presentation and one of the main selling points was that if you put money in your net would increase because your taxable income would be lower. I quickly found out that that is not how it works for everyone. I have never had my net income increase after electing or increasing my 401k contribution. The bottom line all depends on your gross, the number of the withholding you have and your other withholdings - pre and post tax. Getting upset over an assumption like this is just plain ignorance and, Carl, your attitude towards the situation and others you post about sounds more like you like to play passive aggressive games with your wife (keep her upset so you can feel superior) than truly wanting a secure financial future. May not be the case but your age is showing here and if you don't learn some new ways, you may not have a wife when you hit 30. I'm with michelyn8 on playing passive aggressive with your wife. You claim that you talk things over with your wife, but I suspect that really, she just rolls her eyes, and smiles and nods. I suspect it's one of those unwritten rules you have in your marraige - cawiau will take care of all the money, I don't have to worry about it. So you tell her what forms to fill out and that you'll have more money now, she goes along with it, and doesn't see more money now. You constantly vent on here about how she doesn't see things "the right way." And if you don't figure out how to resolve this, you're going to have more issues than making sure your retirement is funded. It's not all about how your way is right and her way is wrong. Wow, you guys are reading way more into this than you there is. a) First, I filed out the forms and gave them to her. b) Second, we talked about it before hand. She knew her 401K contributions were going to increase and why we were changing her withholdings from single and 0 to married and 2. c) She was not “upset” , just thought her net would increase like mine… but she forgot that my 401K contributions were already at 25% while we were increasing hers. d) The reason she was looking forward to her net increasing was because she wanted to get new shoes. Guess what, she still got her new shoes yesterday… I don’t nickel and dime my wife for every dollar and miserable because she does not get to spend money is the last thing she is. e) I think I will stop posting about our personal finances here because it seems everyone always read so much more into it. We don’t spend 24hrs a day fighting over money geesh! We are a money board, I post some of our money situations as discussions/subjects.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 10:23:23 GMT -5
Your net pay would never actually increase, it would just decrease less than the increase going to your 401k. yep if you increase your 401K to by 10%, your net does not decrease by 10% but less (for me when I went from 10 to 20 my net only dropped by 5% or so)
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 11, 2011 10:23:24 GMT -5
Cawiau, you may not realize how you come across on a message board, but with the sum of your posts, you make your wife sound like a spoiled rotten shallow idiot. I'm sure she's a lovely, intelligent woman, but that's not how your posts portray her.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 11, 2011 10:34:47 GMT -5
Cawiau, you may not realize how you come across on a message board, but with the sum of your posts, you make your wife sound like a spoiled rotten shallow idiot. I'm sure she's a lovely, intelligent woman, but that's not how your posts portray her Cawiau you are young like me and it's thru experience that you learn to edit what you say/post because it makes people think a certain way about you/your spouse. I don't think your wife is a bad person and all and I don't think you are either, but when you post select portions of your RL it can come off as REALLY bad to those that don't know the entire context. I've had people tell me to divorce DH and I got huffy till I realized that I was complaining a wee bit too much and based on the information said people had, it sounded to them like we had a really shitty marriage. So now I screen what I say before I say it and make sure that no one person gets too much of an "ear full" and keep a lot of stuff to myself. That way I don't have people making unwanted assumptions about my marriage and my husband.
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RoadToRiches
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Post by RoadToRiches on Apr 11, 2011 10:55:39 GMT -5
This actually makes me think. I already claim 2 dependents, even though I do not have any. I did it last year so my paycheck is bigger.. Well, this year I still got 2700 bucks back. I think I will adjust again. That would be like 120 or buck extra a month.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Apr 11, 2011 11:28:15 GMT -5
cawaiu, I hope you don't stop posting. I enjoy your posts and you certainly give us a lot to talk about. You do have to keep in mind that people will take what you say in different ways and then fill in the blanks on their own. My own first thoughts on this thread was that you didn't give her enough credit for withholding 25% of her income at such a young age, that is a huge accomplishment for a 25 year old. You probably did give her the credit and appreciation, but since you didn't type it to us we get a different idea. I did the same thing with DH about a year ago when we got a notice from the mortgage company that doubled our monthly payment. It was a mistake and relatively easy to resolve, but I posted that DH was upset and I had him wait a day to call the mortgage company so he would have time to think about what he would say. Well I got all kinds of posts saying my DH was an angry violent person, and even one speculating about his performance during sex. So now I do the same thing as dramaq and try to screen things before I post, or sometime I just don't post at all if I think people will take it wrong. indebt, you can use the irs withholding calculator www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96196,00.html to get an idea of how many allowances to claim if you want to break even on your taxes.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 11, 2011 11:42:58 GMT -5
...:::"but with the sum of your posts, you make your wife sound like a spoiled rotten shallow idiot. I'm sure she's a lovely, intelligent woman, but that's not how your posts portray her":::...
My interpretation of it is that his wife grew up getting pretty much everything she wanted, when she wanted it, thanks to Mom. It is going to take a while for her to change 20+ years of programming.
...:::"You claim that you talk things over with your wife, but I suspect that really, she just rolls her eyes, and smiles and nods.":::...
This one I don't fault cawiau on. There are some discussions that are boring as hell, even tense, unpleasant, difficult... but they absolutely MUST be had. Its GOING to suck, its GOING to be boring, its GOING to be tedious, but it MUST be had.
DF once asked me to work on something for her, and I did. When it came time to talk about it, she was so disengaged. I gently reminded her twice that I knew this was dull, but it had to be discussed. Not 15 seconds after that, she was looking around the room and started sorting mail.
Once I explained that I had no skin in this issue whatsoever, and that I had some PS3 games needing my attention, she got the message, and she was deeply engaged going forward.
...:::"You constantly vent on here about how she doesn't see things "the right way."":::...
As a YM'er, I am biased on this one. Yes I firmly believe that doing things my way (cut spending, get our debt killed ASAP, especially since I didn't want to rack it up in the first place) IS the right way. Thank goodness she is seeing that too.
But cawiau in your situation (and I do understand it) you are also talking out of both sides of your mouth. You guys want to be debt free, and invest. But you are also doing things that people who are motivated to pay off debt simply should not do. You eat out a lot (even if you've cut it down). You are planning for at least 2 if not 3 international trips in the next 12 months (even if they are "family obligations).
I'm not saying not to do it, because believe me I understand how those sorts of politically/emotionally charged expenditures seem to still be necessities, even when the objective YM'er would say they are not. I'm just saying that your wife doesn't seem as tuned in to the subtleties, and is understandably frustrated at trying to figure out the rules.
I know you are on an allowance type system so she can blow every penny on shoes and purses that are exactly like the other 12 she already has.
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sil
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Post by sil on Apr 11, 2011 11:43:24 GMT -5
You claim that you talk things over with your wife, but I suspect that really, she just rolls her eyes, and smiles and nods. I suspect it's one of those unwritten rules you have in your marraige - cawiau will take care of all the money, I don't have to worry about it. So you tell her what forms to fill out and that you'll have more money now, she goes along with it, and doesn't see more money now.
Meh - half the couples I know have one "clueless" financial partner and one who "will take care of the money" I see it most often in older couples who have been married for 20+ years. So long as the partner who takes care of the money knows what they are doing and doesnt intend to screw over the clueless one this model works well for a lot of marriages. You just have to make sure you keep the financial records accessible and leave the number of a reputable financial planner in case you die before your spouse.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Apr 11, 2011 12:03:06 GMT -5
I think I will stop posting about our personal finances here because it seems everyone always read so much more into it. We don’t spend 24hrs a day fighting over money geesh! We are a money board, I post some of our money situations as discussions/subjects.
My intention wasn't to get you to stop posting. I often read the postings you start because I find the topics interesting and I actually admire you for having your financial act together at such a young age.
I only pointed out how you come across to at times and I see I'm not the only one getting that impression. You really do make your wife sound like a spoiled idiot sometimes but I also read that you want to make sure your adult life isn't as financially tough as your earlier years.
BUT, for all we know you're really a hen pecked 40 year old with 5 kids and a wife who sits at home all day watching talk TV while you work at a rent to own place for minimum wage. ;D
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runewell
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Post by runewell on Apr 11, 2011 12:04:35 GMT -5
I've been railing here for a long time about how uneducated and lost most of the population is here, in spite of the fact, that more people attend college then every before. All the TV watching offsets it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 12:35:12 GMT -5
My last post on the subject and lest move on to other things.
My wife was raised by a mother that feeled the void of her father's death by giving her daughter everything she needed/wanted. I was raised by a single mother that was abused by my biological dad and had to work 2-3jobs at times to support us. So yes we view money differently and might disagree about it at times.
Witnessing my mother struggle financially makes it that financial stability is a major priority to me while not so much for my wife. In her case she is more about enjoying life and living for the moment.
I am more financially savy since it is so important to me while there are things my wife is an expert at and I am completely clueless.
WWBG, believe me that if it was up to me we would not be eating out or going on vacations till everything was paid off. But my wife contributes 45% to our gross and she does get a say on how the money is spent. So we stick to a debt repayment plan while we put money aside for travels/entertainment. It works for us.
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Apr 11, 2011 12:38:44 GMT -5
WWBG, I will admit to doing the smile and nod bit sometimes, too. And I don't fault cawiau for it. Sometimes, that's how it goes.
And cawiau, I do enjoy your posts. For the most part, they are incredibly interesting, generate lots of follow-up, and bring up very good points. But honestly, between here and the posts on the old YM, I can't think of a single thread where you said something nice about your wife. It's always about her spending too much. You don't want to buy a rice cooker so she whines to mom to get it. She's thinking of being a SAHM when she has tons of debt. She wants to buy a sweater for your dog. She wants the bigger apartment. Maybe she is an awesome wonderful wife, but how many years have you been posting about her spending habits driving you nuts?
I know you say that we are reading too much into it, but it's become the common thread running through all of your posts. I bet it bothers you more than you want to admit.
Honestly, my husbands spending habits drive me nuts too at times, but I have learned to deal with it. I don't get bent out of shape and feel the need to "vent" - it's just who he is. I'm not going to suddenly "change" him. He's not going to be "unprogrammed." He's not going to snap one day and sell all his games and computer stuff on eBay, pay off his cc, and open an IRA.
Remember the thread here where you were posting about her keeping an immaculately clean house and it drove you nuts? Pretend that she is posting on an internet message board several times a day about what a slob you are.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 11, 2011 12:44:37 GMT -5
...:::"WWBG, believe me that if it was up to me we would not be eating out or going on vacations till everything was paid off. But my wife contributes 45% to our gross and she does get a say on how the money is spent. So we stick to a debt repayment plan while we put money aside for travels/entertainment. It works for us. ":::...
I understand that. I'm sure if it were up to her, every penny would be spent every paycheck, and you'd be living for today not tomorrow. You know that you and I have very similar situations in some ways, and have dealt with the same issues.
I certainly don't envy the external pressures that seem to work against you. You seem to have a lot of friends and family who either truly have, or display a lot of materialistic pleasures. The one couple you know where the attorney wife makes $200k+/year, or the cousins who are leasing the hummers and Mercedes', or the parents and grandparents who are writing checks all the time... It can not be easy for your wife to watch that and not want it, and it certainly cannot be easy for you to have to deal with the wife who wants it but knows she can't have it now.
This post is very interesting, because it seems like you two had definitions of what "more money in your paycheck" meant. You were referring to the fact that her retirement savings would increase without reducing her net. She thought you meant she'd have more in her pocket. It happens when two people don't speak the same language.
I do believe your wife has a lot of unrealistic expectations, or unreasonable time frames, or she just gets caught up in the moment. I remember some of the disagreements that went down with your wedding (and yes, I know in the end she was very happy and it all worked out). I see how sometimes she does not accept the correlation between A and B (living in a more expensive apartment means not having money to go out as often).
We also both know this won't be the last thing she does that irks you, nor will it be your last post about it. And you know we enjoy the content, and its all in good fun. So don't get too upset or discouraged.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 11, 2011 12:47:18 GMT -5
They are both young with good and bad habits. Yes, it's a problem that she has received everything she ever wanted. Yes, it's a problem that C trash talks his wife as it shows a major lack of respect. But he doesn't respect her choices because they aren't the same as his. THAT is an issue they BOTH need to work on. C knew what she was like before he married her. She MAY change and mature with age and he MAY mellow out.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Apr 12, 2011 2:34:31 GMT -5
cawiau, your posts make me wince sometimes if only for the fact that if your wife were ever to see them, I'm certain there would be hell to pay. Remember this is the internet, and things you put out there can never be taken back. Maybe one day your wife will start to become interested in finances or how you spend your time on the web, and come across these posts. I would certainly advise more discretion in sharing details that taint how people close to you look, as much as it may decrease the entertainment value of your threads to us observers.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 12, 2011 11:53:46 GMT -5
I've often wondered whether people in his wife's position would be more offended by the fact that he says this stuff, or the fact that he has a point. People tend to try and deflect the blame, but deep down on some level (and with all the education she's had) she has to know that you aren't entirely off base.
So did she really need the shoes, or could she have made do?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 12, 2011 11:56:31 GMT -5
cawiau, your posts make me wince sometimes if only for the fact that if your wife were ever to see them, I'm certain there would be hell to pay. Remember this is the internet, and things you put out there can never be taken back. Maybe one day your wife will start to become interested in finances or how you spend your time on the web, and come across these posts. I would certainly advise more discretion in sharing details that taint how people close to you look, as much as it may decrease the entertainment value of your threads to us observers. I try to keep this in mind as I'm hoping to lure DH into coming here. Could be interesting, could be disastrous and it's even money which way it would go...
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