Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 12:09:03 GMT -5
I had access at home, if I wanted so it was stupid to go out and pay to get drunk if I wanted to get drunk at home for free. That took the mystique out of alcohol, because it was not banned at home. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. My ex was Italian and his parents were pretty free with the alcohol- hey preferred that their kids imbibe at home rather than get drunk and drive. DSIL has never had a a problem with alcohol. My Ex, her brother, was eventually killed by his alcohol abuse. When I was waiting for surgery, my doctor wrote me a prescription for narcotics to use as needed. I think I had 30 tablets and had taken a few. I had work done on my apartment and the maintenance man rifled through my medicine cabinet and emptied the bottle. I discovered it because the idiot left the aspirin container on my vanity. I had not used either recently. DH would get them when his back was acting up; he'd take a few and then put them away when the pain subsided because he didn't like the side effects. I still have a stash of them "just in case" even though he died 3 years ago. Haven't used a single one, even after a dental implant. And the one time I DID try to relieve pain with one of them due to a VERY painful tooth abscess acting up when we were in Budapest years ago they were useless. An extraction the next day solved the problem.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 11, 2020 12:23:30 GMT -5
Read that book Never Enough I've been talking about. Emerging neuroscience into addiction is really interesting. There is a biological component but it's also been shown that even a lot of people who are up addicts eventually end up deciding to quit with no problems never to return. This is even for hard core drugs like heroin which I was surprised to read. Then there are people like my DH and your DH. What makes DH different from people who can experiment in their 20's then never pick it up again science hasn't figured out yet. I think there’s a “yes and” issue here. Like if person A and person B both do any given drug on a casual basis, one, or both, or neither might end up addicts. But, if you lock person A and person B up and forcibly inject them with (heroin, morphine, delaudid, cocaine, nicotine, WHATEVER) for, let’s say 6 months before releasing them into the wild - there’s like a zero percent chance they aren’t BOTH addicted. (Also heavily traumatized.) So it’s BOTH the substance and the brain. Good explanation. Those born with the genetic disposition towards alcoholism are alcoholics from the first drink. Others cause their own dependance from repeated use. Pant's husband was always addicted but she didn"t use enough to induce addiction.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jan 11, 2020 14:38:54 GMT -5
I think there’s a “yes and” issue here. Like if person A and person B both do any given drug on a casual basis, one, or both, or neither might end up addicts. But, if you lock person A and person B up and forcibly inject them with (heroin, morphine, delaudid, cocaine, nicotine, WHATEVER) for, let’s say 6 months before releasing them into the wild - there’s like a zero percent chance they aren’t BOTH addicted. (Also heavily traumatized.) So it’s BOTH the substance and the brain. Good explanation. Those born with the genetic disposition towards alcoholism are alcoholics from the first drink. Others cause their own dependance from repeated use. Pant's husband was always addicted but she didn"t use enough to induce addiction. I think someone else’s husband.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 11, 2020 16:40:54 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with drinking in front of or around your kids it's all about moderation and being responsible. Same thing applies to eating habits and everything else people teach or don't teach their kids through their actions. How many kids do you see that are overweight or obese just like their parents and when you see them out they're eating a meal that's probably 1,200+ calories while drinking soda? You can drink responsibly while still being healthy whereas someone with terrible eating habits that's overweight is in for a slew of problems long term if they don't change their habits. My little sister and her DH decided not to drink or have alcohol in the house once they had kids. I still order a beer or wine with dinner when we go out as a group and sometimes DS has given me the stink eye. Her kids are college/HS age at this point, so I can 100% guarantee they have seen plenty of adults/their peers drinking. You're not going to be able to shelter your kids from the fact that a lot of people drink moderately with no ill effects. We always told DS that there are all kinds of things that can be addictive - fast food, alcohol, drugs - but once you become addicted to something it can are very hard to give it up, so you need to be careful not to become dependent on any substance, as they can ruin your health/finances/relationships. So far (he's 30) so good, but we also don't have alcoholism running through our family, so I think he avoided that genetic curse.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on Jan 11, 2020 17:02:46 GMT -5
Sadly, genetics my family plays a very large role in addiction. My maternal side were all drunks. I also found out I cannot partake of opiates as I became addicted to those. Weirdly enough, I recognized it and was able to stop using them. Now if I could break the eating habit, life would be golden!
Oh, and I actually went into a liquor store today and didn't buy everything! Ok, I bought a bottle of non-alcoholic wine for me but I was there to pick up a bottle of whiskey for my BIL as a late Christmas/thank you gift. WIN!!
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jan 11, 2020 20:33:21 GMT -5
Good for you Empress!
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travelnut11
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Post by travelnut11 on Jan 11, 2020 22:48:08 GMT -5
I think there’s a “yes and” issue here. Like if person A and person B both do any given drug on a casual basis, one, or both, or neither might end up addicts. But, if you lock person A and person B up and forcibly inject them with (heroin, morphine, delaudid, cocaine, nicotine, WHATEVER) for, let’s say 6 months before releasing them into the wild - there’s like a zero percent chance they aren’t BOTH addicted. (Also heavily traumatized.) So it’s BOTH the substance and the brain. Good explanation. Those born with the genetic disposition towards alcoholism are alcoholics from the first drink. Others cause their own dependance from repeated use. Pant's husband was always addicted but she didn"t use enough to induce addiction. This is a bit of a stretch I think. My dad was an alcoholic. I am not. I've been drinking in moderation for 20 years so am thinking alcoholism would've manifested itself by now.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 11, 2020 22:55:44 GMT -5
Good explanation. Those born with the genetic disposition towards alcoholism are alcoholics from the first drink. Others cause their own dependance from repeated use. Pant's husband was always addicted but she didn"t use enough to induce addiction. This is a bit of a stretch I think. My dad was an alcoholic. I am not. I've been drinking in moderation for 20 years so am thinking alcoholism would've manifested itself by now. You don't automatically have the genetic disposition because a parent does. It often runs in families but not everyone in the family gets it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 12, 2020 9:38:14 GMT -5
I think there’s a “yes and” issue here. Like if person A and person B both do any given drug on a casual basis, one, or both, or neither might end up addicts. But, if you lock person A and person B up and forcibly inject them with (heroin, morphine, delaudid, cocaine, nicotine, WHATEVER) for, let’s say 6 months before releasing them into the wild - there’s like a zero percent chance they aren’t BOTH addicted. (Also heavily traumatized.) So it’s BOTH the substance and the brain. Good explanation. Those born with the genetic disposition towards alcoholism are alcoholics from the first drink. Others cause their own dependance from repeated use. Pant's husband was always addicted but she didn"t use enough to induce addiction. I am not sure I wholly agree with this. I was taking massive amounts of opiates for long periods of time, and have always stopped, no dependency issues, no withdrawal issues. However, there are those who also take them for pain and become dependent upon them. I am not unusual.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 12, 2020 11:39:53 GMT -5
Good explanation. Those born with the genetic disposition towards alcoholism are alcoholics from the first drink. Others cause their own dependance from repeated use. Pant's husband was always addicted but she didn"t use enough to induce addiction. I am not sure I wholly agree with this. I was taking massive amounts of opiates for long periods of time, and have always stopped, no dependency issues, no withdrawal issues. However, there are those who also take them for pain and become dependent upon them. I am not unusual. True. Opiates do nothing for me. At the same time though I wonder if I just haven't found my trigger yet. Just because Vicodin did nothing for me doesn't mean if I shot up heroin it would be the same. There are people though that can. Which one you're going to be you don't really know till you do it. I can't with 100% certainty say I would never be an addict just because I didn't develop a tendency to the things DH is addicted to. I think it's a false confidence to say "I would never be an addict".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 12:15:20 GMT -5
Four pages in and still no one has come right out and said what you don't want to know, what you want others to rationalize into being okay. There is an elephant in the room, one that no one wants to come right out and mention. Mrs. Dinero, I'm pretty sure you're right. It's just a few steps from being full-blown and not limited to "just" weekends no matter how you slice it. You're fine during the work week? What happens when you retire? I come from a family (on both sides and going back at least two generations) of "functioning" drunks so it's safe to say I know whereof I speak.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 12, 2020 13:05:31 GMT -5
I watched an excellent documentary about addiction last night, called Rat Park. Has anyone seen it?
A forgotten experiment by a Canadian psychologist from the 1970's called Rat Park shows us that drug addiction is not really about drugs themselves. It's about the cages we live in. Rat Park is a VICE Studios production, produced in association with CRAVE, a division of Bell Media Inc. and the participation of The Telus Fund.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 12, 2020 13:12:07 GMT -5
I am not sure I wholly agree with this. I was taking massive amounts of opiates for long periods of time, and have always stopped, no dependency issues, no withdrawal issues. However, there are those who also take them for pain and become dependent upon them. I am not unusual. True. Opiates do nothing for me. At the same time though I wonder if I just haven't found my trigger yet. Just because Vicodin did nothing for me doesn't mean if I shot up heroin it would be the same. There are people though that can. Which one you're going to be you don't really know till you do it. I can't with 100% certainty say I would never be an addict just because I didn't develop a tendency to the things DH is addicted to. I think it's a false confidence to say "I would never be an addict". It may be that you do not have one. If they say addicts tend to trade one addiction for another, it would seem to me it isn’t necessarily the substance being abused, but the behavior.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 12, 2020 13:32:16 GMT -5
True. Opiates do nothing for me. At the same time though I wonder if I just haven't found my trigger yet. Just because Vicodin did nothing for me doesn't mean if I shot up heroin it would be the same. There are people though that can. Which one you're going to be you don't really know till you do it. I can't with 100% certainty say I would never be an addict just because I didn't develop a tendency to the things DH is addicted to. I think it's a false confidence to say "I would never be an addict". It may be that you do not have one. If they say addicts tend to trade one addiction for another, it would seem to me it isn’t necessarily the substance being abused, but the behavior. Reading about it possibly part of the reason they trade one thing for another is the desperate attempt to feel normal. You royally mess up you body chemistry taking substances and your body stops being able to feel normal without them. There is a reason some people go into shock and die from withdraw, their bodies can't handle the sudden change and adapt fast enough. Basic biology is a human body will do whatever it takes to achieve homeostasis even if it's not in our best interest.
Like I said earlier technically speaking if you find yourself having headaches, being grumpy and not feeling like a "normal" person till you have had your coffee or morning energy drink you are dependent on them. Lots of people can't easily give those up cold turkey either. We just don't tend to think of it that way because caffeine does not carry the same social stigma as other mind altering substances do.
I've started viewing it as a spectrum as opposed to either you are one or you aren't. It keeps me mindful of my own bad habits. While they may never lead me down the road DH has taken I can't really stand on a pedestal regarding the subject either.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 13:42:37 GMT -5
I've started viewing it as a spectrum as opposed to either you are one or you aren't. It keeps me mindful of my own bad habits. While they may never lead me down the road DH has taken I can't really stand on a pedestal regarding the subject either. I agree. I like alcohol. I have one drink of scotch every night- 2 oz.- I measure it. Some experts define a "drink" as 1.5 oz. of hard liquor but I'm sticking with 2 oz. Any more than that or, heaven forbid, mixing types (scotch before dinner and wine at dinner) will result in a migraine or worse. It keeps me honest. I've just decided that I don't ever want to have a doctor tell me, "You've got to give up alcohol completely or you're gonna die", so I don't overdo it.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 13, 2020 9:39:23 GMT -5
I've started viewing it as a spectrum as opposed to either you are one or you aren't. It keeps me mindful of my own bad habits. While they may never lead me down the road DH has taken I can't really stand on a pedestal regarding the subject either. I agree. I like alcohol. I have one drink of scotch every night- 2 oz.- I measure it. Some experts define a "drink" as 1.5 oz. of hard liquor but I'm sticking with 2 oz. Any more than that or, heaven forbid, mixing types (scotch before dinner and wine at dinner) will result in a migraine or worse. It keeps me honest. I've just decided that I don't ever want to have a doctor tell me, "You've got to give up alcohol completely or you're gonna die", so I don't overdo it. My Dad got something along the lines of "you need to cut back or you're going to fry your liver" and he did cut back. Nowadays, he usually has a beer a week, with my brothers on Wed. afternoons. When I was a kid, we'd go to the liquor store and return 2 cases of 24 bottles each, back in the days of bottle deposits and no one caring if you drank and drove.
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