In a photo = Knowing someone?

[hoops902]

Let me start by saying this isn't meant to be political, but the idea was sparked in my mind from a lot of the "Trump says he doesn't know X person, this photo says otherwise".  I'm also not taking a stance on whether Trump actually knows these people, is lying, etc.

It sparked me to think about myself, and whether I would say I "know" everyone I've ever been in a photo with.  Or even multiple photos with.  That turned into "do famous people who take a LOT of photos "know" all those people?  

It also made me wonder what other people think it means to "know" someone.  For example, I'm probably in photos with the in-laws of my in-laws (wife's brother's wife's family) because we do things for my nieces and nephew.  I've probably "met them" 5-10 times...I can't imagine myself ever saying I "know them" though.  I know their name (mostly only if my wife tells me their name before we arrive) and I can identify that their face looks familiar.  I think if you gave me their name and asked if I had ever met them I'd probably say no, unless you specifically told me how I might know them (or unless I put together the familiar last name).  Obviously not all of this applies to more famous people, who have more famous names.  

Realizing just how easily it would be for me to be in photos with people I would say I don't "know"...and mean that I don't know them even if I remember meeting them...it made me wonder how much more odd it would be to hold more famous people to "knowing" everyone they'd been in photos with.  For Trump lately it's royalty (which seems more memorable) but in the past it's been random people associated with other people he knows.  

So the question is twofold.  1.  Is it weird that I think it seems reasonable you could be in a photo with someone multiple times and still say you don't know them?  2.  What would you consider criteria if someone asked you if you knew X person?  What's the threshold for you to say "yes, I know them"?  My threshold feels very subjective, like a feeling, curious if others can quantify theirs.

[Gardening Grandma]

I'd probably remember if I'd been photographed with a prince.....

[zibazinski]

I was, at their insistence, in a reunion photo. I looked like a token whitey in a sea of black people! Now that the newest generation has branched out into marrying all kinds of races resulting in mixed children, I wouldn’t stick out anymore. But nope, I knew my girlfriend who dragged me to it because she didn’t want to drive to Tennessee alone, then was introduced to 300 other people that I wouldn’t know again if I tripped over them.

[gs11rmb]

I would know if I'd been photographed with a Prince or a President.  I don't think it's necessarily a lie for a Prince or President to say they've no recollection of being photographed with me.

[swamp]

I've been in plenty of pictures with people I don't know for work related things, so no, one photo doesn't say much, especially if it's at some public event.   I had my picture taken at Disney with Tinkerbell.  I don't know her.  

However, multiple photos tell me more.    If I've been photographed with a certain person mulitple times and not at some public event, but more like a private party, or out to dinner, I'm more likely to know them.  Maybe not well, but I can't say I haven't met them.  

[hoops902]

Dec 3, 2019 14:59:09 GMT -5 swamp said:

I've been in plenty of pictures with people I don't know for work related things, so no, one photo doesn't say much, especially if it's at some public event.   I had my picture taken at Disney with Tinkerbell.  I don't know her.  

However, multiple photos tell me more.    If I've been photographed with a certain person mulitple times and not at some public event, but more like a private party, or out to dinner, I'm more likely to know them.  Maybe not well, but I can't say I haven't met them.  

I guess that's part of my question. What line do people draw between "I know them" and "I've met them but I don't know them"?  I'm not sure if it's just my antisocial nature that would have me saying I "don't know" the in-laws of my in-laws...given I've been around them at least half a dozen times...but I have difficulty defining that separation.

[giramomma]

Mere physical proximity doesn't indicate that someone knows someone (well.) Even in multiple photos. I mean, two people facing opposite directions doesn't really indicate that they have a relationship.

Two people smiling warmly at each other when it probably isn't appropriate...something is up.

I have two coworkers that are very friendly to each other, and have been for years. To the point, where supervisors ...I'm pretty sure have said to tone it down. Which did happen in the last two years or so.

But, the way he looks at her...everyone once in a while...whatever is between them..it's not quite ended, whatever is between them. You can't fake that warmth and that relationship...and I think it's easy for the camera to capture something like tat.

I also think that people will cling to falsehoods at all costs, because they simply don't want to deal with the consequences of their behavior.

I'm pretty sure DH falls into that category. He's pretty emphatic that he's "forgotten" some things over the past couple of years with regards to his addiction. I pretty much call bullsh*t on that.  I think it's easier for him to forget because then he doesn't have to deal with me processing information. (In his defense, it does get ugly sometimes...).

I think some things would be easier to swallow, say if there were clarifications. Someone can know "of" someone, but not actually "know" them. I would presume this would be the case for what we are seeing being played out in the news.

However, words actually matter. I mean, I think everything would have been much more palatable if the message was "I know of someone, because social circles are small. But, I am not good friends with." It's too bad that other people don't understand words matter.

I also think when a version of the story is presented in absolutes, by someone who is known to lie multiple times a day, it's natural for others to be critical of the story.

[swamp]

Dec 3, 2019 15:02:35 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Dec 3, 2019 14:59:09 GMT -5 swamp said:

I've been in plenty of pictures with people I don't know for work related things, so no, one photo doesn't say much, especially if it's at some public event.   I had my picture taken at Disney with Tinkerbell.  I don't know her.  

However, multiple photos tell me more.    If I've been photographed with a certain person mulitple times and not at some public event, but more like a private party, or out to dinner, I'm more likely to know them.  Maybe not well, but I can't say I haven't met them.  

I guess that's part of my question. What line do people draw between "I know them" and "I've met them but I don't know them"?  I'm not sure if it's just my antisocial nature that would have me saying I "don't know" the in-laws of my in-laws...given I've been around them at least half a dozen times...but I have difficulty defining that separation.

I think you should admit to knowing them, but not well.    I mean, you can pick them out of a crowd and know their names.     If you were at a family BBQ with them, I'm assuming you can at least greet them by name and ask some kind of personal relevant question.    I also doubt you'd have your picture taken with them draping your arms around each other, but you may be part of a group photo, or a candid talking to one another.    

I agree, though, Sometimes it is difficult to define the separation.  

[happyhoix]

So the question is twofold. 1. Is it weird that I think it seems reasonable you could be in a photo with someone multiple times and still say you don't know them? 2. What would you consider criteria if someone asked you if you knew X person? What's the threshold for you to say "yes, I know them"? My threshold feels very subjective, like a feeling, curious if others can quantify theirs.

Not weird to be in a photo multiple times with someone and still not know them. Those situations would be more properly considered 'meeting' someone, I think, as opposed to 'knowing' someone, which implies that you've had a few one on one conversations.

Regarding Trump, I would count him being in photos with Prince Andrew as 'meeting' the prince, not knowing him. But there's video of Trump and Epstein as younger men (probably in their forties) on a dance floor with a pack of beautiful women, either beauty contest participants or models, I forget which. The two men are dancing around, laughing, bumping into each other, whispering in each other's ears, having a whale of a time together. That, to me = more than just meeting someone. It indicates that, at least at that time, they two of them were friendly and went in together in arranging this bevy of beauties to have fun with together, which would make me question Trump's insistence that he didn't know Epstein.

 

[Tiny]

Dec 3, 2019 14:51:45 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

I'd probably remember if I'd been photographed with a prince..... 

Especially when the Prince invited me to an event AND I was spending time 'touring' a local landmark with him.

[Tiny]

Personally, I think Trump just has a limited vocabulary.  And just doesn't know enough words (and how to use them)  or the ability to string more than 3 or 4 words together in order to communicate something so complex as:  "Yes, I have met this person, but it was at a  "business/public" event. We have never spoken privately.   I do not know him socially or personally".    So, he does the best he can and says "I don't know him".     

[Tennesseer]

[Deleted]

I don’t like having my picture taken, so if I’m in multiple pictures with someone in different settings, I probably at least know who they are. I don’t like taking pictures with friends and family, some random person that I don’t know at all would never be able to badger me into taking pictures with them on several occasions.

Clearly I’m not someone that loves being in the limelight.

If I were asked if I know someone I’m in some pictures with, possible answers are, “I’ve met them, but I don’t know much about them” or “We know some of the same people (or have mutual friends), but I don’t really know them”.

I don’t feel like I “know” someone unless I’ve had at least a few personal conversations with them and understand a little of who they are beyond their name and type of weather they prefer.

[giramomma]

Dec 3, 2019 17:26:12 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Right, but I think there's only one picture in the whole collage that truly indicates a somewhat intimate relationship.

I mean, the ones where they are standing within close proximity of each other or walking near each other...that happens at work all the time, with people I don't really "know." I don't have a relationship with them, beyond saying hello and quipping about the weather or the elevator breaking down.

So. It would actually be very honest of me to say I don't know them.

It would also be very honest of me to say that I don't know my husband of almost 20 years. We don't have a ton of emotional intimacy in our marriage.

To me this falls under Clinton's quip "It depends what the definition of "is" is."

Off all the things to get hung up on, I'm not sure parsing this all out is not on the top of my list.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 3, 2019 20:28:15 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Dec 3, 2019 17:26:12 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Right, but I think there's only one picture in the whole collage that truly indicates a somewhat intimate relationship.

I mean, the ones where they are standing within close proximity of each other or walking near each other...that happens at work all the time, with people I don't really "know." I don't have a relationship with them, beyond saying hello and quipping about the weather or the elevator breaking down.

So. It would actually be very honest of me to say I don't know them.

It would also be very honest of me to say that I don't know my husband of almost 20 years. We don't have a ton of emotional intimacy in our marriage.

To me this falls under Clinton's quip "It depends what the definition of "is" is."

Off all the things to get hung up on, I'm not sure parsing this all out is not on the top of my list.

How often does anyone intermingle with a British prince?

As for the highlighted in your reply, maybe trump meant he doesn't 'know' the prince in the biblical sense.

[Artemis Windsong]

Do we ever "know" someone?  Who they really are?  How many people have lived with someone and didn't know who they were or what they were doing when they walked out the front door.  A lot.

Example.  The church deacon that was the BTK killer for years under the nose of everyone.

[Deleted]

A local African-American activist was protesting the state district attorney's decision to take over a shooting investigation that the state's da had taken over.

The activist produced a picture of the two (activist and guy he is protesting) together and demanded the da recuse himself. The da said he takes pictures with lots of people he doesn't know.

[giramomma]

Dec 3, 2019 20:42:06 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

How often does anyone intermingle with a British prince?

As a middle class schlub, that's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

For the rich and famous, I'm sure quite often.

Do you really, honestly, expect a British Prince to mostly hang out with someone like you or I, as a norm?

I don't know what world you live in, but I live in a world that is very much segregated based on SES. In my city, many in the middle class/upper middle class and wealthy classes won't even drive through the crap neighborhoods, let alone befriend people and hang out with others in a much lower.

So, if upper middle class folks won't dare hang out with poor folks, how is it so hard to believe that a Prince won't hang out with middle class folks.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 3, 2019 23:21:24 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Dec 3, 2019 20:42:06 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

How often does anyone intermingle with a British prince?

As a middle class schlub, that's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

For the rich and famous, I'm sure quite often.

Do you really, honestly, expect a British Prince to mostly hang out with someone like you or I, as a norm?

I don't know what world you live in, but I live in a world that is very much segregated based on SES. In my city, many in the middle class/upper middle class and wealthy classes won't even drive through the crap neighborhoods, let alone befriend people and hang out with others in a much lower.

So, if upper middle class folks won't dare hang out with poor folks, how is it so hard to believe that a Prince won't hang out with middle class folks.

Not sure where you're going with this. Do I believe trump and Edward know rach other? Yes I do.

trump has claimed he barely knows those around him during his campaign and the White House who have been convicted and imprisoned.

[giramomma]

Dec 3, 2019 23:42:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 3, 2019 23:21:24 GMT -5 giramomma said:

As a middle class schlub, that's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

For the rich and famous, I'm sure quite often.

Do you really, honestly, expect a British Prince to mostly hang out with someone like you or I, as a norm?

I don't know what world you live in, but I live in a world that is very much segregated based on SES. In my city, many in the middle class/upper middle class and wealthy classes won't even drive through the crap neighborhoods, let alone befriend people and hang out with others in a much lower.

So, if upper middle class folks won't dare hang out with poor folks, how is it so hard to believe that a Prince won't hang out with middle class folks.

Not sure where you're going with this. Do I believe trump and Edward know rach other? Yes I do.

trump has claimed he barely knows those around him during his campaign and the White House who have been convicted and imprisoned.

I'm saying, because they are both of similar stature in society, I would expect them to run in the same social circles.

Running in the same social circles does not automatically mean that a friendship exists.  Knowing of each other doesn't mean knowing someone. 

Here's where I think we are different. I'm not going off making assumptions about a relationship based on generalizations. I think, it this specific case, Trump could really barely know Prince Andrew. Again, I'll argue that most of the pictures you posted in the collage are not damning. I walk within 4 feet of people that I don't know or casually know all.the.time.

I also think it's pretty stupid, right now, that folks are focusing on his relationship with the Prince. I haven't  kept up on who else is going to be charged with crimes now that Epstein is dead. I would assume if they had enough to get Trump on sex trafficking right now, they would have done so. Or something would have been leaked to the media, minimally. A quick google search tells me that the statue of limitations for statutory rape is about 15 years, in extenuating circumstances.

So. I think all the media coverage about the relationship with the Prince does nothing to move the argument forward for those that feel the president should be removed from office. In fact, I think all this focusing on pictures of people mostly standing far away from each other is going to make those in favor of the president dig in even further into their position. Which also doesn't help those that think the president should be removed.

If the president is really lying about this too, what purpose does this additional data point serve? A quick google search tells me that the president has told 13,435 as of October. Let's say this is lie 13, 436. What's so magical about lie 13,436 vs. 13,435, especially if the lie is one that doesn't really change anything?

[zibazinski]

Dec 3, 2019 16:58:53 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So the question is twofold. 1. Is it weird that I think it seems reasonable you could be in a photo with someone multiple times and still say you don't know them? 2. What would you consider criteria if someone asked you if you knew X person? What's the threshold for you to say "yes, I know them"? My threshold feels very subjective, like a feeling, curious if others can quantify theirs.

Not weird to be in a photo multiple times with someone and still not know them. Those situations would be more properly considered 'meeting' someone, I think, as opposed to 'knowing' someone, which implies that you've had a few one on one conversations.

Regarding Trump, I would count him being in photos with Prince Andrew as 'meeting' the prince, not knowing him. But there's video of Trump and Epstein as younger men (probably in their forties) on a dance floor with a pack of beautiful women, either beauty contest participants or models, I forget which. The two men are dancing around, laughing, bumping into each other, whispering in each other's ears, having a whale of a time together. That, to me = more than just meeting someone. It indicates that, at least at that time, they two of them were friendly and went in together in arranging this bevy of beauties to have fun with together, which would make me question Trump's insistence that he didn't know Epstein.

 

Drinking makes friends out of strangers.

[happyhoix]

Dec 4, 2019 4:35:16 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Dec 3, 2019 16:58:53 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So the question is twofold. 1. Is it weird that I think it seems reasonable you could be in a photo with someone multiple times and still say you don't know them? 2. What would you consider criteria if someone asked you if you knew X person? What's the threshold for you to say "yes, I know them"? My threshold feels very subjective, like a feeling, curious if others can quantify theirs.

Not weird to be in a photo multiple times with someone and still not know them. Those situations would be more properly considered 'meeting' someone, I think, as opposed to 'knowing' someone, which implies that you've had a few one on one conversations.

Regarding Trump, I would count him being in photos with Prince Andrew as 'meeting' the prince, not knowing him. But there's video of Trump and Epstein as younger men (probably in their forties) on a dance floor with a pack of beautiful women, either beauty contest participants or models, I forget which. The two men are dancing around, laughing, bumping into each other, whispering in each other's ears, having a whale of a time together. That, to me = more than just meeting someone. It indicates that, at least at that time, they two of them were friendly and went in together in arranging this bevy of beauties to have fun with together, which would make me question Trump's insistence that he didn't know Epstein.

 
Drinking makes friends out of strangers.

Trump doesn't drink. But I get what you mean - in their case, sleeping around with beautiful young ladies makes friends out of strangers.

[gs11rmb]

Tennesseer I don't like that you're putting me in the position of defending Donald Trump   but I agree with the other posters that the photographs don't equate with a friendship.  Two appear to be at a party and the rest are formal occasions.  Prince Andrew was a trade representative so meeting wealthy and connected people and engaging in polite conversations was a major part of the job.  It's certainly possible that the two men could be friends but it's just as possible (in fact I'd lean toward probable) that they are not.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 4, 2019 9:28:36 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Tennesseer I don't like that you're putting me in the position of defending Donald Trump   but I agree with the other posters that the photographs don't equate with a friendship.  Two appear to be at a party and the rest are formal occasions.  Prince Andrew was a trade representative so meeting wealthy and connected people and engaging in polite conversations was a major part of the job.  It's certainly possible that the two men could be friends but it's just as possible (in fact I'd lean toward probable) that they are not.

News sources seems to disagree with you and others that trump and the prince don't know each other.

One picture of the two of them together doesn't mean they 'know' each other other than they have been introduced to each other. Multiple pictures of the two of them together over time says to me they 'know' each other.

[gs11rmb]

Dec 4, 2019 10:33:16 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 4, 2019 9:28:36 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Tennesseer I don't like that you're putting me in the position of defending Donald Trump   but I agree with the other posters that the photographs don't equate with a friendship.  Two appear to be at a party and the rest are formal occasions.  Prince Andrew was a trade representative so meeting wealthy and connected people and engaging in polite conversations was a major part of the job.  It's certainly possible that the two men could be friends but it's just as possible (in fact I'd lean toward probable) that they are not.

News sources seems to disagree with you and others that trump and the prince don't know each other.

One picture of the two of them together doesn't mean they 'know' each other other than they have been introduced to each other. Multiple pictures of the two of them together over time says to me they 'know' each other.

But you're equating knowing someone on the public stage with knowing someone/being friends in private.  

[Tennesseer]

Dec 4, 2019 10:44:19 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Dec 4, 2019 10:33:16 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

News sources seems to disagree with you and others that trump and the prince don't know each other.

One picture of the two of them together doesn't mean they 'know' each other other than they have been introduced to each other. Multiple pictures of the two of them together over time says to me they 'know' each other.

But you're equating knowing someone on the public stage with knowing someone/being friends in private.  

All I have said is they know each other. I have not said they have gone bar hopping together or they shared a bed with underage women.

[Deleted]

I think the OP makes an interesting point.  Due to my volunteer engagement, I have been in a lot of photos at a lot of events with a lot of people.  Some folks I see routinely at meetings or civic events, some I am "friends" with on Facebook, and a couple I've had business dinners or lunches with.  Very, very few of these photo companions have ever been to my house or ever will be.  Even our dinners or lunches involved recruiting support for ideas, candidates, projects, fundraising etc.  

I "know" the people I'm pictured with to the extent of knowing their names, job titles, and potential usefulness in advancing my causes-it's networking.  I don't know their addresses, their spouses or offspring, or their proclivities.  

[laterbloomer]

What people really want to know is did they go to Epstein parties together.

[Deleted]

Newt Gingrich is married to my cousin and I've been in several pictures with him, but I would not say I really know him. 

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2019 11:47:56 GMT -5 @donethat said:

I think the OP makes an interesting point.  Due to my volunteer engagement, I have been in a lot of photos at a lot of events with a lot of people.  Some folks I see routinely at meetings or civic events, some I am "friends" with on Facebook, and a couple I've had business dinners or lunches with.  Very, very few of these photo companions have ever been to my house or ever will be.  Even our dinners or lunches involved recruiting support for ideas, candidates, projects, fundraising etc.  

I "know" the people I'm pictured with to the extent of knowing their names, job titles, and potential usefulness in advancing my causes-it's networking.  I don't know their addresses, their spouses or offspring, or their proclivities.  

This is where a word like "acquaintance" comes in handy.  "Casual acquaintance" is even better.

Or colleague if you have a working relationship.