losing PTO

[azucena]

As we approach yearend, I'm surrounded by grumpy people in the office as they figure out how many days of PTO they are going to lose. Some people seem to be surprised and irritated about this every year.

I get 26 PTO days for sick and vacation combined which is about middle of the range of 20 to 35 offered by tenure.  We can carry over 10.  I'm projected to end the year with 6; I usually try to keep 5 to cover a medium length illness.  I usually end up taking most of them on days my kids are off school and 1-2 for kids' sick days.  I take a week at spring break and a few long weekends.  Voila - in Dec I'm not left trying to figure out how to squeeze them in when everyone else wants off.  I can see having trouble getting 35 in particularly as those are senior people with high profile intense jobs.  I'm at VP level so work piles up when I'm away, but I know I'm more productive when I schedule breaks and really use them.  My rule is that I'm not online more than an hour on PTO days if at all.

Curious how this plays out in other offices.

[resolution]

We receive 20 days of annual leave per year, and on December 31, we lose anything over 30 days.  In our offices that serve the public, we can't have everyone off at the same time, so some of the tenured staff will deliberately create a "use it or lose it" situation to try to get priority for taking off two weeks for Christmas and New Years. Every year we get a reminder from HR begging people to deplete their leave in advance, but its really not in the individual's best interest to do so because management will prioritize leave for those individuals.

[Deleted]

I'm not a big fan of the combined PTO bucket even though it probably would have been to my advantage.  I'm pretty sure I left hundreds of sick days on the table over my career because they were all "use it or lose it" and I've been blessed with excellent health- even when I had DS I worked through the entire pregnancy and then was out 6 weeks after.  

With the combined PTO bank it's a gamble.  What if you schedule and pay for a vacation in October and then have to use up a big chunk of PTO for a major illness before then?  And if you "save" PTO days just in case, you're stuck with a bunch at the end of the year.  I was allowed to carry over vacation days ONCE and it was only a few and required my manager's approval.  

Depending on the business, the last couple of weeks can be a terrible time to take off.  I was in insurance and involved in financial statements, and it was pretty much "all hands on deck" other than the actual Christmas holidays.  In other industries December is a dead time and taking a vacation then is no problem.

[billisonboard]

Nov 26, 2019 12:26:26 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

...

Depending on the business, the last couple of weeks can be a terrible time to take off.  I was in insurance and involved in financial statements, and it was pretty much "all hands on deck" other than the actual Christmas holidays.  In other industries December is a dead time and taking a vacation then is no problem.

Our organization mainly works with schools and usually gives extra free days off the second half of December. Then we opened up a camp that is next to a ski area and there is expectation that we take advantage of people wanting to use the facility during the holidays. It has created a tension when the memo comes out giving "everyone" time off and we have to be at work.

[tractor]

Our accrual and carryover is based on years of service. I get 35 days of PTO a year and can carry over 50 days from year to year. The only unique requirement we have is at some point in the year you must use at least 5 days in a row (they essentially force us to take a break), which is a good thing. Failure to use at least one 5 day block results in losing 1/2 your yearly total at the end of the year.

I know this is crazy, but they really want us to use our time and not just bank it up from year to year. I take several 5 day blocks a year so it works out fine for me. I’m going to carry over about 30 days this year, so I’ll have some to burn up next year.

[giramomma]

I get 176 hours of vacation time a year, and 36 hours of personal time. Personal time is lost at the years end if you don't take it.

Vacation time gets rolled over one year. If you don't use it, you lose it. Unless you've worked long enough that you can bank unused vacation and have a certain job classification (mine). That starts at the 10 year mark.

I earn one sick day a month..and you keep that forever. It's how I stayed on getting paid while on maternity leave.

Once you retire, you can convert unused sick leave to help pay for medical insurance premiums.

My vacation/sick leave follows a July-June calendar. So, with 6ish months left, I have to burn through 60 hour of vacation from July18-June 19, or I lose it. Then I can start on the vacation that I get starting July 2019.

I'm not sure how this is changing, because HR is totally doing everything to put more emphasis on raises, promotions, etc.

As it turns out, I'm a dinosaur in my almost mid 40s. We could afford to take a job that provided no COL wage increase (and even a wage decrease-hello furlough) for a decade, in exchange for the great benefits.  Up until 2011/12, my family health insurance cost me less than $100/month. And I had virtually no out of pocket expenses. I paid nothing for the birth of my first two kids.

My employer is now finding problems finding workers. I think one of the main reasons is that you cannot use PTO/benefits to pay for debt.  I think we have now swung the other way, where salary is far more important than benefits.

[Deleted]

I accrue 120 hours of vacation and 40 hours of sick time a year.  That goes up to 160 hours vacation next year.  In the old days we could carry over an unlimited amount and I always had a month or so banked, but about 10 years ago they changed it to only being able to carry over 40 hours of vacation and 40 hours sick time.  They claim having all that unused vacation hanging over their heads was bad for the books. 

This year due to a system blow up where we were down for several weeks they've waived the use it or lose it to keep people working as much as possible up until year end.  Normally I'm burning days the end of the year and could have carried a lot over, but I had to take a lot off early this year that I wasn't expecting so I'll only have one extra day to carry over. 

[wvugurl26]

I get 6 hours of vacation leave and 4 hours of sick leave every two weeks. I can carry over 240 hours of vacation and unlimited sick time. We get no disability coverage so we are allowed to carry unlimited time.

Requests for use it or lose it leave had to be approved last week. I'm off the week of Christmas. I've worked some part of it in the past and it's been very quiet. By mid December there are a lot of people out.

I'm carrying 238.50 hours over. No one does my work for me while I'm gone but I need breaks. And I'm not losing my time.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I get 240 hours of VAC a year, plus holidays.  I can carry over something like 2 years of VAC.  I tend to carry over about 40 hours, give or take a bit.  I like to have a week in reserve for sick kid time as my sick leave can only be used for my own illnesses or if I have FMLA paperwork filled out. 

My sick leave accrues until I hit 960 hours.  On retirement, I get 240 hours paid out.  Any time over that is lost.  I'm carrying about 650 hours of sick leave right now. 

[Anne_in_VA]

I got just over 27 days of PTO time during my last year of work.  We were allowed to carry over 20 hours IIRC.  If you didn’t use your hours you had to put in to have them pay you for them at 50% on the $, so I always used mine.  I seldom got sick, so I always had to use up a few days before the end of the year.

[NastyWoman]

I will be entering unknown territory after December 20th when our vacation will be frozen and, over time, paid out. Up until then I received 200hours of vaca. and 80 hours of sick per year. Sick is use it or lose it and you could  carry over 300 hours of vaca each year.

Starting December 21th we will have "unlimited" vacation based on your boss' approval. No sick. Rumor has it that too much vaca will be held against you in your evaluation.  Problem is, I would have ~240 hours left by 12/31 and had saved that very carefully for next year since there are multiple trips (either for me to go visit or others to come visit) planned for 2020. With all the hours available there was no problem.  Now I don't know.  I don't want the money, I want my time. So I have reached the conclusion that if they are going to be difficult about my time off, I will just retire. It would be a little earlier than I planned but whatever. They changed the rules of the game not I...

2020 will be interesting

ETA: Just saw Anne's post about getting vaca paid out at 50%. At least we don't have that problem since that is not allowed under CA labor law → they have to pay out at 100%

[thyme4change]

In our office, all the long-timers take off 2-3 days per week in November and December. We all swear we couldn't find time to take it earlier. I have 4 weeks of vacation, so I try to take 5 days every quarter. This year I blew it. Mostly because the guy I support is needy.

[souldoubt]

We're in CA and our policy whether it's state, company or both is that you accrue PTO each pay period, there's no use it or lose it situation and on termination it has to be paid out.  Over time the liability on the BS can grow and we've heard some interesting comments from people who aren't familiar with the laws about how to get rid of it.  Short answer is the only way to do that is to pay it out.  We have an office on the other side of the country whose policy is they get x days a year to use starting 1/1 but nothing is recorded or sitting on their books nor is it paid out on termination.  If they wanted to make us go that route (assuming it's allowed in CA) they would need to pay us all out first.  I'd be fine with that but one way or another whether it's up front or when I leave I'm getting the PTO that I've earned.  Our offices in different countries are kind of a mix between the two US offices - people get x days each year on 1/1, if they leave half way through the year their allowance is adjusted (don't get the full year they would have earned half) while any balance due is paid out and at year-end a max of 5 days carry over which have to be used by the end of February.  The CA policy is the only one I've known and I like it because I see it as my quasi-severance or rather a cushion to bridge the gap between the last check here and the first checks at a new company.

[NastyWoman]

Nov 26, 2019 15:07:38 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

We're in CA and our policy whether it's state, company or both is that you accrue PTO each pay period, there's no use it or lose it situation and on termination it has to be paid out.  Over time the liability on the BS can grow and we've heard some interesting comments from people who aren't familiar with the laws about how to get rid of it.  Short answer is the only way to do that is to pay it out.  We have an office on the other side of the country whose policy is they get x days a year to use starting 1/1 but nothing is recorded or sitting on their books nor is it paid out on termination.  If they wanted to make us go that route (assuming it's allowed in CA) they would need to pay us all out first.  I'd be fine with that but one way or another whether it's up front or when I leave I'm getting the PTO that I've earned.  Our offices in different countries are kind of a mix between the two US offices - people get x days each year on 1/1, if they leave half way through the year their allowance is adjusted (don't get the full year they would have earned half) while any balance due is paid out and at year-end a max of 5 days carry over which have to be used by the end of February.  The CA policy is the only one I've known and I like it because I see it as my quasi-severance or rather a cushion to bridge the gap between the last check here and the first checks at a new company.

That is not quite true though. While they can't refuse to pay out vacation already accrued, they can, by law, max out accruals at xyz hours. Once you reach that number you will not accrue any more vacation until you are once again below the max the company allows.  At one time we had a limit of 400 hours, then they reduced it to 300 hours → to make the BS look better I am sure.

For many years I kept quite a few hours on the books as a financial buffer in case of a RIF we've had many rounds off those through the years, now I just had a balance for my vacation plans since I am, at least financially, ready to retire

[flamingo]

I earn 24 days of vacation per year. You stop accruing at 180 hours (24 days, as we work 7.5 hour days). We earn some random amount of sick time each month and it accrues to an unlimited amount as far as I can tell. Earlier this year I was getting close to the 180 hour cap (and that’s with having taken a week’s vacation and a few long weekends), so I took some random days off, then over the summer took off at least 1 half day each week. I’ve now spent that down so I think i currently have around 100 hours banked.

My job has me out of the office quite a bit. I know that working off site is still working, but it’s hard for me to justify taking vacation when I was just in Orlando for a week (for a work conference) and actually need to catch up in the office. My boss is really laid back about it, so I do use my time off, it’s just a weird mental thing with me. 

That said, there are people I work with that take a weird pride in not using their vacation. I don’t get it. I’m more productive when I take some time out of the office and away from work. I’m off today and won’t be back to the office until Monday. Then I’m off a day next week, then I’m off for 12 days over Christmas (we are closed for 3 of those days) for a real vacation. AND, I’m already planning my April vacation with my mom. I don’t live to work, I work to live/vacation 

[souldoubt]

Nov 26, 2019 15:15:59 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Nov 26, 2019 15:07:38 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

We're in CA and our policy whether it's state, company or both is that you accrue PTO each pay period, there's no use it or lose it situation and on termination it has to be paid out.  Over time the liability on the BS can grow and we've heard some interesting comments from people who aren't familiar with the laws about how to get rid of it.  Short answer is the only way to do that is to pay it out.  We have an office on the other side of the country whose policy is they get x days a year to use starting 1/1 but nothing is recorded or sitting on their books nor is it paid out on termination.  If they wanted to make us go that route (assuming it's allowed in CA) they would need to pay us all out first.  I'd be fine with that but one way or another whether it's up front or when I leave I'm getting the PTO that I've earned.  Our offices in different countries are kind of a mix between the two US offices - people get x days each year on 1/1, if they leave half way through the year their allowance is adjusted (don't get the full year they would have earned half) while any balance due is paid out and at year-end a max of 5 days carry over which have to be used by the end of February.  The CA policy is the only one I've known and I like it because I see it as my quasi-severance or rather a cushion to bridge the gap between the last check here and the first checks at a new company.

That is not quite true though. While they can't refuse to pay out vacation already accrued, they can, by law, max out accruals at xyz hours. Once you reach that number you will not accrue any more vacation until you are once again below the max the company allows.  At one time we had a limit of 400 hours, then they reduced it to 300 hours → to make the BS look better I am sure.

For many years I kept quite a few hours on the books as a financial buffer in case of a RIF we've had many rounds off those through the years, now I just had a balance for my vacation plans since I am, at least financially, ready to retire

Not really sure how you're interpreting what I said based on your response.  Our company has a max PTO allowance and once someone reaches that you won't accrue any more.  That has nothing to do with getting rid of the hundreds of thousands of dollars of PTO liability the company carries.  My comment was in regards to one of our auditors from another state who tried saying that we could just take it off the BS.  Those of us in CA chuckled particularly the accountants, pointed out that wasn't true and in private conversations quite a few people said if they tried anything like even assuming it were legal those of us who earned PTO and have seen others get paid out on leaving would raise hell.  

[Deleted]

Nov 26, 2019 13:06:46 GMT -5 tractor said:

I know this is crazy, but they really want us to use our time and not just bank it up from year to year. I take several 5 day blocks a year so it works out fine for me. I’m going to carry over about 30 days this year, so I’ll have some to burn up next year.

Not crazy at all.  It's not even just for your mental health- it's good risk management.  Many times companies found that the reason employees were able to get away with embezzlement and other frauds was that they never went on vacation so they were able to conceal their activities.  Now that I think of it, though, with the line between home and work blurred and the ability to carry company business with you on a laptop or phone (I confess to doing that on vacation but no more than half an hour a day), you could probably keep up scams while on the beach.

[bobosensei]

My company gives 6 sick days and 5 floating holidays (neither roll over), and starting year in year 3 of employment you go from 2 to 3 weeks vacation each year.  We only get 7 company paid holidays.  You can roll one week of vacation each year.  This year (when I got that extra week of vacation) I need to roll a week.  I did that my first year, but because you have to use it in the first 90 days of the following year vowed never to do that again.  Then ended up doing it again because my last manager was good about giving comp time when we had to work nights for code releases, so I must have had 7 or 8 days of comp time used too.

I never used to take sick time, but started the year I was doing billable work a couple years back.  I never take all 6.  This year so far I have taken 3, and I'll do another half day for an eye exam in a few weeks.  I always say I will be better at taking my sick time.  All of my co workers use every last drop of them, even using 3-4 days in December, and scheduling it ahead like vacation time.  Next year I promise that I will use those days up and when I could use them.  I can work from home as much as I need to so sometimes when I don't feel well I just work from home, but trying to do less of that going forward.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I used to accrue a sick day each month, and received 160 hours of vacation each year.  We also got off the week between Christmas and New Year (plus a few days).  Sick days could accrue indefinitely, you could only carry over one year of vacation time.  Because of this, I always had a year’s worth of vacation in the bank.

When I went out sick, between the sick and vacation time I accrued, I was paid for the 6 months I was out until I could get disability.  When I received disability, the vacation time that I used while sick reverted back into my vacation bank and I was paid out for those 4 weeks.

My employer also covered my health insurance benefits for 2 years until Medicare kicked in for me.  

[Cookies Galore]

I get 34 PTO days each year and I always carry over 5 days (you never know), so 39 days. That's 273 hours a year since we have a 7 hour day. I reserve some for sick, 5 for my annual carry over, and the rest I try to use up throughout the year. My end of year vacation starts December 18 this year.

[Tiny]

I've been at my job so long I accrue the max time off of 30 days (or 210 hrs) per year. It gets banked into a PTO account which maxes out at 210 hours. My employer does a yearly buy out of up to 5 (35 hours) days.

I like PTO way better than the old school vacation/personal/sick day metric. When my employer switched over to PTO they made it very clear how managers and employees should handle requesting and OKing time off. It was pounded into our heads that megalomaniac managers who would wield their ability to OK time off as a punishment/reward would not be tolerated.

PTO is nice because the rules for taking the time apply to all the hours. If I need to take a day off on the spur of the moment (family just arrived unexpectedly in town for 2 days - and I'd like to spend a day with them - I don't have to call in sick (because you have to SCHEDULE vacation days) and then worry about using up all my sick days (since you can't use vacation days for a spur of the moment sick day - if you have a megalomaniac manager you are screwed by the handbook rules).
If you need to schedule a future day(s) off you do have to coordinate but it's usually not an issue.

Back to the OP: I have to manage my time off year round - since I accrue so much and tend to NOT take a week or two off at a time. I tend to schedule atleast 2 days off a month. This gives me the flexibility to do family/friend things during the week. I usually sell back 5 days of timeoff to keep myself from getting into a "use it NOW! or lose it" situation. My PTO bank tends to hover between 10 to 15 days accrued.

I do have grumpy co-workers who get themselves into the use/lose it situation every year. Most of them are older, long lived employees. Many of them "highly value" their ability to attain "perfect attendance" at work and seem to have a hard time taking time off.

I use to be in that class of employee (since it was drilled into my head from kindergarten that showing up was more important than anything else. Not going to school/work/whatever was bad and was a sign of "shirking one's duty/responsibility/obligation" It took alot of effort but I've gotten over that mindset. I can do a good job at work AND take time off.

[ednkris]

I get 25 days vac per year. Unlimited sic just don't abuse it, and 12 holidays. The problem is (a good problem to have) is I only work 15 days per month just don't really need to take time off unless we are going to travel. We can only rollover 2 days per year and they must be used in the first 3 mos. 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

As someone who works in public education, my days and when I can take them are far different from the private sector. However, I have learned in the past few years that actually taking the days is important for my mental health. Being a martyr isn't good for myself or how my expectations of others play out. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 26, 2019 15:23:03 GMT -5 flamingo said:

I earn 24 days of vacation per year. You stop accruing at 180 hours (24 days, as we work 7.5 hour days). We earn some random amount of sick time each month and it accrues to an unlimited amount as far as I can tell. Earlier this year I was getting close to the 180 hour cap (and that’s with having taken a week’s vacation and a few long weekends), so I took some random days off, then over the summer took off at least 1 half day each week. I’ve now spent that down so I think i currently have around 100 hours banked.

My job has me out of the office quite a bit. I know that working off site is still working, but it’s hard for me to justify taking vacation when I was just in Orlando for a week (for a work conference) and actually need to catch up in the office. My boss is really laid back about it, so I do use my time off, it’s just a weird mental thing with me. 

That said, there are people I work with that take a weird pride in not using their vacation. I don’t get it. I’m more productive when I take some time out of the office and away from work. I’m off today and won’t be back to the office until Monday. Then I’m off a day next week, then I’m off for 12 days over Christmas (we are closed for 3 of those days) for a real vacation. AND, I’m already planning my April vacation with my mom. I don’t live to work, I work to live/vacation 

3 things.  If your job is on shaky grounds, you have another bonus of funds to help carry you over until you find a job.  Secondly, if you have aging parents, they may need help.  I was able to take off a month of paid time while my mom was dying.  I spent several weeks with my dad following surgery. 

Finally, my banked vacation time allowed me to get to the point where I could collect LTD and have a paycheck coming in for the 6 months it takes to get to that point.  

Shit happens, and banked vacation can be another resource.