TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Nov 10, 2019 12:45:47 GMT -5
Subprime borrows and underwater car loans? www.wsj.com/articles/a-45-000-loan-for-a-27-000-ride-more-borrowers-are-going-underwater-on-car-loans-11573295400?mod=e2fbI know 2 of these people currently... 1) one work for us and requested assistance from our company. The assistance is free for associates that really need it and they don’t have to pay it back. She was denied and I feel it was because they saw she had a $800/month car note payment; and the shocker for me was that is was not even a luxury car. I’ve had friends or family members with $600-$800 car notes but at least it was for all decked up Audi, Porsche or BMW. 2) an acquaintance that is currently renting a car at $250/week to drive for Lyft. The positive is at least he uses the car to create work for himself (I guess) and he is not responsible for car insurance. That was his best options compared to what he would get buying a car himself. So it comes down to $1,000/month for a Toyota Camry he drives. The way it works is every week his first $250 is not his, so Monday into Tuesday (sometimes Wednesday) the money he makes goes towards paying for the car, and then afterwards he starts making money.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 10, 2019 16:00:53 GMT -5
I don't know if it's a crisis, yet. It seems like car loans aren't approaching mortgage sizes or 6 figure college debt, at least yet. I don't feel too badly, again for people's choices. Let's look at the guy they focused on. A car reaching 100K miles isn't necessarily a reason to replace the car. Was the car 15 years old too, and not worth the cost of repairs anymore? Sure, a car was needed post divorce. But was a newer two-seater a need? I'm still driving a 12 year old, 5 passenger car despite the fact we are family of 6. And despite the numerous leaks, I am still driving it. The mechanic thinks I can eek it out another two years or so.
When we replace my car, it will be with a used car, running us 12-15K, max. We really still need to stay closer to the lower end. I'm looking at an Imprezza, even as a family of 6. (DS will still be in our house at that point).
Or maybe the crisis is people making some dubious choices...or forgetting that just because one works, one is not owed the nicest of everything. Or, that if one has an oppsie, just like we did, that does not entitle folks to more and better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 16:21:53 GMT -5
2) an acquaintance that is currently renting a car at $250/week to drive for Lyft. The positive is at least he uses the car to create work for himself (I guess) and he is not responsible for car insurance. That was his best options compared to what he would get buying a car himself. So it comes down to $1,000/month for a Toyota Camry he drives. The way it works is every week his first $250 is not his, so Monday into Tuesday (sometimes Wednesday) the money he makes goes towards paying for the car, and then afterwards he starts making money. That's a rough way to make a living- presumably he owes taxes, including SS, on that $1,000 and that has to come out of what he makes the rest of the week. How long till it's paid off? One practice that really gets people into trouble, and that I think should be illegal, is folding the "underwater" portion of the loan intlo the loan on your new car. So, you trade in your old car for $5,000 but you owe $8,000 on it and the $3,000 is added to what you borrow when you buy the new car. This has to make the interest rate sky-high because now part of the loan is unsecured.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Nov 10, 2019 16:54:50 GMT -5
2) an acquaintance that is currently renting a car at $250/week to drive for Lyft. The positive is at least he uses the car to create work for himself (I guess) and he is not responsible for car insurance. That was his best options compared to what he would get buying a car himself. So it comes down to $1,000/month for a Toyota Camry he drives. The way it works is every week his first $250 is not his, so Monday into Tuesday (sometimes Wednesday) the money he makes goes towards paying for the car, and then afterwards he starts making money. That's a rough way to make a living- presumably he owes taxes, including SS, on that $1,000 and that has to come out of what he makes the rest of the week. How long till it's paid off?[ Till he gets his credit fixed enough that he can afford his own car; last I spoke to him he was asking his mom to co-sign for him. So really there is no pay off in sight since you are constantly renting/leasing it. It is like a lease with no options to buy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 17:41:26 GMT -5
2) an acquaintance that is currently renting a car at $250/week to drive for Lyft. The positive is at least he uses the car to create work for himself (I guess) and he is not responsible for car insurance. That was his best options compared to what he would get buying a car himself. So it comes down to $1,000/month for a Toyota Camry he drives. The way it works is every week his first $250 is not his, so Monday into Tuesday (sometimes Wednesday) the money he makes goes towards paying for the car, and then afterwards he starts making money. That's a rough way to make a living- presumably he owes taxes, including SS, on that $1,000 and that has to come out of what he makes the rest of the week. How long till it's paid off? He's RENTING it at $250/week, so never. I have zero sympathy for people that overbuy cars.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Nov 10, 2019 18:21:18 GMT -5
I don't know if it's a crisis, yet. It seems like car loans aren't approaching mortgage sizes or 6 figure college debt, at least yet. I don't feel too badly, again for people's choices. Let's look at the guy they focused on. A car reaching 100K miles isn't necessarily a reason to replace the car. Was the car 15 years old too, and not worth the cost of repairs anymore? Sure, a car was needed post divorce. But was a newer two-seater a need? I'm still driving a 12 year old, 5 passenger car despite the fact we are family of 6. And despite the numerous leaks, I am still driving it. The mechanic thinks I can eek it out another two years or so.
When we replace my car, it will be with a used car, running us 12-15K, max. We really still need to stay closer to the lower end. I'm looking at an Imprezza, even as a family of 6. (DS will still be in our house at that point).
Or maybe the crisis is people making some dubious choices...or forgetting that just because one works, one is not owed the nicest of everything. Or, that if one has an oppsie, just like we did, that does not entitle folks to more and better.
Interesting to note that the guy featured in the article bought one of the cars as the result of a divorce and another of the cars due to an expanding family. That sounds a bit like the possibility of a guy with a zipper problem, a pregnant girl friend, then an ex wife. If my hunch is right, he has lots of judgement problems, not just problems with his financial judgement. If he got divorced due to a pregnant girlfriend, he knew when he got the divorce car that the family was going to be expanding. Why didn’t he plan for the near certainty of another child in a few months? Then there is the Cherokee that apparently was badly enough damaged before he bought it that the Cherokee was a problem. Certainly, damage to that extent would appear in something like a CarFax report. Why didn’t he get a CarFax report? He’s not a naive teenager or 20 something. He’s a 40 year old adult. He’s heard of CarFax before. Insert Forrest Gump quote here.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Nov 10, 2019 18:42:09 GMT -5
When math was being cut from the K12 curriculum over 20 years ago, those of us who make our livings from math suspected that it would end badly.
And now the Seattle schools are 're-framing' math because it is 'racist', hurtful, yada. So yeah - no surprise that young folks can't grasp compound interest, amortization, car payments, etc. In my family, there are multiple college math professors - first cousins, aunts - they are concerned about what the K12 schools are sending to the community colleges, they have to start the kids over at the ninth grade Algebra level.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Nov 10, 2019 18:47:40 GMT -5
The one that seemed the strangest to me was the two girls that traded in their $12k GMC because they wanted a cheaper car, and walked out with a $66k loan for a new car. They have to be going out of their way to find unsympathetic examples.
I find the stats on the vehicle loans to be alarming, but in general the loan amounts seem small enough to be worked out a lot easier than the housing bubble was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 19:02:05 GMT -5
When math was being cut from the K12 curriculum over 20 years ago, those of us who make our livings from math suspected that it would end badly.
And now the Seattle schools are 're-framing' math because it is 'racist', hurtful, yada. So yeah - no surprise that young folks can't grasp compound interest, amortization, car payments, etc. In my family, there are multiple college math professors - first cousins, aunts - they are concerned about what the K12 schools are sending to the community colleges, they have to start the kids over at the ninth grade Algebra level.
I think it has more to do with the easy availability of credit and no stigma with borrowing these days than lack of math in schools. I barely had to take any math when I went to school in the 80's (through Geometry was all that was required), that same school requires up to Alegebra 2 and a Statistics course now, my son's school requires 3 years of math no matter what level you test in at freshman year and most kids take 4. He took Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre-Calc and AP Calc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2019 19:02:53 GMT -5
The one that seemed the strangest to me was the two girls that traded in their $12k GMC because they wanted a cheaper car, and walked out with a $66k loan for a new car. They have to be going out of their way to find unsympathetic examples. And it was a new TRUCK. WTF is it with people buying trucks? Maybe if you work in construction or have a lawn care business, but most of the shiny new pimped-out trucks I see look like they've never been off-road. Then you gotta pay a fortune for the giant tires. I shudder when I think of having to replace my 7-year old sedan. The replacement will be used and I'm hoping to keep it under $20K and it will still kill me to spend that much.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Nov 11, 2019 9:17:22 GMT -5
When math was being cut from the K12 curriculum over 20 years ago, those of us who make our livings from math suspected that it would end badly.
And now the Seattle schools are 're-framing' math because it is 'racist', hurtful, yada. So yeah - no surprise that young folks can't grasp compound interest, amortization, car payments, etc. In my family, there are multiple college math professors - first cousins, aunts - they are concerned about what the K12 schools are sending to the community colleges, they have to start the kids over at the ninth grade Algebra level.
I think it has more to do with the easy availability of credit and no stigma with borrowing these days than lack of math in schools. I barely had to take any math when I went to school in the 80's (through Geometry was all that was required), that same school requires up to Alegebra 2 and a Statistics course now, my son's school requires 3 years of math no matter what level you test in at freshman year and most kids take 4. He took Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre-Calc and AP Calc. I agree. I graduated from high school on the prairie in the '80s and my only math requirements were Algebra I and Consumer Math. I was accepted at the state university with only those two high school math courses (and given a scholarship). I was fortunate that my father explained compound interest and the time value of money when I was a young girl. I can remember him clipping a coupon bond and taking me along to town to redeem it at the bank. That was the first lightbulb that went on. The second lightbulb lit up in Consumer Math as a senior in high school. Mr. Nelson explained certificates of deposit and the time value of money. He also explained how Social Security was a statistical nightmare for our generation and we had better prepare for our own old age. I think each individual has the ability to learn about math and money. Life is a much bigger classroom than high school.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2019 9:29:21 GMT -5
The one that seemed the strangest to me was the two girls that traded in their $12k GMC because they wanted a cheaper car, and walked out with a $66k loan for a new car. They have to be going out of their way to find unsympathetic examples. And it was a new TRUCK. WTF is it with people buying trucks? Maybe if you work in construction or have a lawn care business, but most of the shiny new pimped-out trucks I see look like they've never been off-road. Then you gotta pay a fortune for the giant tires. I shudder when I think of having to replace my 7-year old sedan. The replacement will be used and I'm hoping to keep it under $20K and it will still kill me to spend that much. I agree about the trucks, but shuddering to think of replacing your car? Loosen the purse strings a little. You have plenty of money, and there are plenty of reasonably priced gently used sedans out there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 9:55:43 GMT -5
I think it has more to do with the easy availability of credit and no stigma with borrowing these days than lack of math in schools. I barely had to take any math when I went to school in the 80's (through Geometry was all that was required), that same school requires up to Alegebra 2 and a Statistics course now, my son's school requires 3 years of math no matter what level you test in at freshman year and most kids take 4. He took Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre-Calc and AP Calc. I agree. I graduated from high school on the prairie in the '80s and my only math requirements were Algebra I and Consumer Math. I was accepted at the state university with only those two high school math courses (and given a scholarship).
I forgot about that. I was accepted to the state flagship with just high school geometry in 87! There is NO WAY a kid would get accepted with just that now. The minimum high school course requirements include 4 years of math.
I see lots of cutting of Art, Music and Phy Ed...which is a huge shame as these are very important too...but not math.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 10:08:25 GMT -5
When math was being cut from the K12 curriculum over 20 years ago, those of us who make our livings from math suspected that it would end badly.
And now the Seattle schools are 're-framing' math because it is 'racist', hurtful, yada. So yeah - no surprise that young folks can't grasp compound interest, amortization, car payments, etc. In my family, there are multiple college math professors - first cousins, aunts - they are concerned about what the K12 schools are sending to the community colleges, they have to start the kids over at the ninth grade Algebra level.
I think it has more to do with the easy availability of credit and no stigma with borrowing these days than lack of math in schools. I barely had to take any math when I went to school in the 80's (through Geometry was all that was required), that same school requires up to Alegebra 2 and a Statistics course now, my son's school requires 3 years of math no matter what level you test in at freshman year and most kids take 4. He took Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre-Calc and AP Calc. Yes, but what about the kids who aren't as smart as your kid? Alabama has a 4X4 curriculum, which means 4 years of all of the 4 core subjects--English, math, social studies, and science. But the math is a problem for many. The state's solution was to also offer Algebra and Geometry as a two-year course for those who needed it. So same requirement as you had--just spread over 4 years. I think they got rid of the Geometry A and Geometry B course in favor of just geometry and now those kids take Algebraic Connections as their fourth year course. phil5185, you will appreciate this. My 76-year-old husband always credited his high school geometry teacher for his success as a young pool hustler when he joined the Navy at 18. It's all about the angles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 10:16:49 GMT -5
I agree about the trucks, but shuddering to think of replacing your car? Loosen the purse strings a little. You have plenty of money, and there are plenty of reasonably priced gently used sedans out there. Yeah, but I'd rather spend the money on plane tickets. I'm not going to buy a $5,000 beater next time I have to buy a car- will probably do what's worked before and buy off-rental from Enterpise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 10:19:14 GMT -5
I think it has more to do with the easy availability of credit and no stigma with borrowing these days than lack of math in schools. I barely had to take any math when I went to school in the 80's (through Geometry was all that was required), that same school requires up to Alegebra 2 and a Statistics course now, my son's school requires 3 years of math no matter what level you test in at freshman year and most kids take 4. He took Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre-Calc and AP Calc. Yes, but what about the kids who aren't as smart as your kid? Alabama has a 4X4 curriculum, which means 4 years of all of the 4 core subjects--English, math, social studies, and science. But the math is a problem for many. The state's solution was to also offer Algebra and Geometry as a two-year course for those who needed it. So same requirement as you had--just spread over 4 years. I think they got rid of the Geometry A and Geometry B course in favor of just geometry and now those kids take Algebraic Connections as their fourth year course. phil5185 , you will appreciate this. My 76-year-old husband always credited his high school geometry teacher for his success as a young pool hustler when he joined the Navy at 18. It's all about the angles. I guess I can only talk to my state, but in MN you have to complete through Algebra 2 to graduate.
3 credits of mathematics, including algebra, geometry, statistics and probability sufficient to satisfy the standards. Students in the graduating class of 2015 and beyond must complete an algebra II credit or its equivalent as part of the 3-credit requirement. In addition to the high school credits, students in the graduating class of 2015 and beyond must also complete an algebra credit by the end of eighth grade.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 10:19:48 GMT -5
I agree about the trucks, but shuddering to think of replacing your car? Loosen the purse strings a little. You have plenty of money, and there are plenty of reasonably priced gently used sedans out there. Yeah, but I'd rather spend the money on plane tickets. I'm not going to buy a $5,000 beater next time I have to buy a car- will probably do what's worked before and buy off-rental from Enterpise. But, you have enough money for the car AND plane tickets.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2019 10:21:19 GMT -5
I agree about the trucks, but shuddering to think of replacing your car? Loosen the purse strings a little. You have plenty of money, and there are plenty of reasonably priced gently used sedans out there. Yeah, but I'd rather spend the money on plane tickets. I'm not going to buy a $5,000 beater next time I have to buy a car- will probably do what's worked before and buy off-rental from Enterpise. 1. I never said you should buy a beater. 2. Be careful with buying those ex-rentals. They tend to get beat up.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 11, 2019 10:21:21 GMT -5
The one that seemed the strangest to me was the two girls that traded in their $12k GMC because they wanted a cheaper car, and walked out with a $66k loan for a new car. They have to be going out of their way to find unsympathetic examples. And it was a new TRUCK. WTF is it with people buying trucks? Maybe if you work in construction or have a lawn care business, but most of the shiny new pimped-out trucks I see look like they've never been off-road. Then you gotta pay a fortune for the giant tires. I shudder when I think of having to replace my 7-year old sedan. The replacement will be used and I'm hoping to keep it under $20K and it will still kill me to spend that much. We have a truck. It's useful. We don't generally go off road, but we do use it as a truck, usually to haul brush on our property, and to move stuff. It's also nice in the snow.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 11, 2019 10:28:16 GMT -5
When math was being cut from the K12 curriculum over 20 years ago, those of us who make our livings from math suspected that it would end badly.
And now the Seattle schools are 're-framing' math because it is 'racist', hurtful, yada. So yeah - no surprise that young folks can't grasp compound interest, amortization, car payments, etc. In my family, there are multiple college math professors - first cousins, aunts - they are concerned about what the K12 schools are sending to the community colleges, they have to start the kids over at the ninth grade Algebra level.
I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but in NY, my kids are doing plenty of math. DS is is 8th grade and is doing 9th grade algebra. He will take geometry, trig, and pre-calc, and AP Calc should he want to. I don't know about racist, but the re-framing is to show multiple ways of reaching the answer since not everyone learns the same way. They are also teaching "mental math" so the kids can realize that adding 18 and 22 is the same as 20 + 20 and you don't need to get out a pencil and paper to solve it.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Nov 11, 2019 10:36:28 GMT -5
I think it has more to do with the easy availability of credit and no stigma with borrowing these days than lack of math in schools. I barely had to take any math when I went to school in the 80's (through Geometry was all that was required), that same school requires up to Alegebra 2 and a Statistics course now, my son's school requires 3 years of math no matter what level you test in at freshman year and most kids take 4. He took Geometry, Algebra 2, Pre-Calc and AP Calc. Yes, but what about the kids who aren't as smart as your kid? Alabama has a 4X4 curriculum, which means 4 years of all of the 4 core subjects--English, math, social studies, and science. But the math is a problem for many. The state's solution was to also offer Algebra and Geometry as a two-year course for those who needed it. So same requirement as you had--just spread over 4 years. I think they got rid of the Geometry A and Geometry B course in favor of just geometry and now those kids take Algebraic Connections as their fourth year course. phil5185 , you will appreciate this. My 76-year-old husband always credited his high school geometry teacher for his success as a young pool hustler when he joined the Navy at 18. It's all about the angles. But this is specific to your state. Here in CA, they start preparing for high school Math from middle school. You have to have a Math track as part of both middle and high school and you cannot take the same class twice. You can take it during summer if you fail it during the school year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 10:42:19 GMT -5
I never said you should buy a beater. 2.Be careful with buying those ex-rentals. They tend to get beat up. I know- the beater was a joke. I want a car that's dependable and doesn't have things going wrong every month. The last 2 cars DH and I bought were from Enterprise. They were fine with us taking them to a trusted mechanic beforehand (and I have one) to check them over and, for one of them, cut the price after the mechanic found stuff that needed fixing. I sold the older one after DH died but the 2012 is running just fine. You're right about rental cars getting abused, though. Years ago a rental car agent told me they no longer kept manual transmission cars in stock because people rented them to teach their kids how to drive with a manual transmission!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 11, 2019 10:46:06 GMT -5
I never said you should buy a beater. 2.Be careful with buying those ex-rentals. They tend to get beat up. I know- the beater was a joke. I want a car that's dependable and doesn't have things going wrong every month. The last 2 cars DH and I bought were from Enterprise. They were fine with us taking them to a trusted mechanic beforehand (and I have one) to check them over and, for one of them, cut the price after the mechanic found stuff that needed fixing. I sold the older one after DH died but the 2012 is running just fine. You're right about rental cars getting abused, though. Years ago a rental car agent told me they no longer kept manual transmission cars in stock because people rented them to teach their kids how to drive with a manual transmission! If I were in your position, I would buy a Corvette as well as a sensible sedan for bad weather days. And I'd still buy first class plane tickets. You can't take it with you.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 11, 2019 10:53:58 GMT -5
I had algebra, geometry, trigonometry, algebra 2 and pre calc. I'm positive there were people in my graduating class who definitely did not even get to algebra 2. Pre calc was optional but I took it. Pretty much everything I took besides AP English my senior year was optional. I was done with all the other requirements. I didn't even go to school a full day that year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 10:56:23 GMT -5
Yes, but what about the kids who aren't as smart as your kid? Alabama has a 4X4 curriculum, which means 4 years of all of the 4 core subjects--English, math, social studies, and science. But the math is a problem for many. The state's solution was to also offer Algebra and Geometry as a two-year course for those who needed it. So same requirement as you had--just spread over 4 years. I think they got rid of the Geometry A and Geometry B course in favor of just geometry and now those kids take Algebraic Connections as their fourth year course. phil5185 , you will appreciate this. My 76-year-old husband always credited his high school geometry teacher for his success as a young pool hustler when he joined the Navy at 18. It's all about the angles. But this is specific to your state. Here in CA, they start preparing for high school Math from middle school. You have to have a Math track as part of both middle and high school and you cannot take the same class twice. You can take it during summer if you fail it during the school year. I know it is state-specific. And our kids start preparing for high school math in middle school, too. That is how they know who needs to take Algebra I while in 8th grade, Algebra I while in 9th grade, or Algebra IA and IB in 9th and 10th grade. They don't just pull names from a hat. And no matter what a curriculum "says," there are bound to be kids in your school who cannot pass a true Algebra II class. It's easy to require something on paper (our 4x4, for example), but graduating students is still a priority. And that priority includes students with learning disabilities who often need a slower pace. Check your master schedule sometimes, and you are certain to find several different versions of Algebra II. We have Alg II with Trig, non Trig, with Trig Adv Level, etc.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 11, 2019 10:59:04 GMT -5
But this is specific to your state. Here in CA, they start preparing for high school Math from middle school. You have to have a Math track as part of both middle and high school and you cannot take the same class twice. You can take it during summer if you fail it during the school year. I know it is state-specific. And our kids start preparing for high school math in middle school, too. That is how they know who needs to take Algebra I while in 8th grade, Algebra I while in 9th grade, or Algebra IA and IB in 9th and 10th grade. They don't just pull names from a hat. And no matter what a curriculum "says," there are bound to be kids in your school who cannot pass a true Algebra II class. It's easy to require something on paper (our 4x4, for example), but graduating students is still a priority. And that priority includes students with learning disabilities who often need a slower pace. Check your master schedule sometimes, and you are certain to find several different versions of Algebra II. We have Alg II with Trig, non Trig, with Trig Adv Level, etc. The kids that can't handle Algebra 2 went to work on manufacturing lines, not to community college, that's why there is now a need for remedial math in college. These jobs don't exist anymore, so they go to college. I think Phil is longing for a day that didn't exist.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Nov 11, 2019 11:06:47 GMT -5
My DS and DIL were at a dealership checking out new/used cars and overheard a conversation between a salesperson and potential buyers who were turned down to lease a car at $500 per month. The salesperson explained, "You can understand the company's decision when you consider that you don't even have $500 for the upfront payment."
I remember attending a retirement seminar with XH, who had a graduate degree in engineering. After the seminar he said if he knew about the time value of money and compound interest, he would have been much more interested in saving for retirement way earlier. His work had nothing to do with those things. If he thought about those things, he could have figured it out but it just didn't enter his radar. He was much more inclined to see money as something to spend, not to save.
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Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2019 11:21:21 GMT -5
You don't have to know how to do advanced math to be good with money. I used to help my hairstylist with math when she was in highschool. She never got a very good understanding of it, but she is great with money, and doing much better than me with her multiple rentals, giant house on 26 acres, and giant boat. (Her husband helped with the last 2, but she inherited a house early on, and started earning money from renting it out ever since.
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Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 8:20:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 11:28:34 GMT -5
But this is specific to your state. Here in CA, they start preparing for high school Math from middle school. You have to have a Math track as part of both middle and high school and you cannot take the same class twice. You can take it during summer if you fail it during the school year. I know it is state-specific. And our kids start preparing for high school math in middle school, too. That is how they know who needs to take Algebra I while in 8th grade, Algebra I while in 9th grade, or Algebra IA and IB in 9th and 10th grade. They don't just pull names from a hat. And no matter what a curriculum "says," there are bound to be kids in your school who cannot pass a true Algebra II class. It's easy to require something on paper (our 4x4, for example), but graduating students is still a priority. And that priority includes students with learning disabilities who often need a slower pace. Check your master schedule sometimes, and you are certain to find several different versions of Algebra II. We have Alg II with Trig, non Trig, with Trig Adv Level, etc. But there were still kids like that back in the day. I BARELY passed the one required high school math class and that was after a redo in summer school and had to take two remedial classes in college to get me up to speed to take Calc there. I just don't personally see that they're loosening up the math curriculum requirements. It seems the opposite to me. Yes, not all kids are going to be able to handle it but it doesn't mean they're loosening the standards. Here they get moved to the alternative school if they can't meet the regular high school ones even with Summer school and extra tutoring. A lot of those kids go to work after high school or the technical college.
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 11, 2019 11:29:26 GMT -5
I know it is state-specific. And our kids start preparing for high school math in middle school, too. That is how they know who needs to take Algebra I while in 8th grade, Algebra I while in 9th grade, or Algebra IA and IB in 9th and 10th grade. They don't just pull names from a hat. And no matter what a curriculum "says," there are bound to be kids in your school who cannot pass a true Algebra II class. It's easy to require something on paper (our 4x4, for example), but graduating students is still a priority. And that priority includes students with learning disabilities who often need a slower pace. Check your master schedule sometimes, and you are certain to find several different versions of Algebra II. We have Alg II with Trig, non Trig, with Trig Adv Level, etc. The kids that can't handle Algebra 2 went to work on manufacturing lines, not to community college, that's why there is now a need for remedial math in college. These jobs don't exist anymore, so they go to college. I think Phil is longing for a day that didn't exist. When did he stop?
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