NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 16, 2019 10:21:02 GMT -5
I want to know what dt is hiding, though the following may be a part of the problem/reason he is so desparate to keep them secret:
"More questions have arisen surrounding President Trump's businesses after ProPublica obtained documents via New York's Freedom of Information Law. The documents show that for two of Trump's New York properties — 40 Wall Street and the Trump International Hotel and Tower — different financial figures were reported to lenders and to tax authorities. ..."
www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-businesses-reportedly-gave-different-135300856.html
and yet the strumpettes keep insisting there is nothing to see...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 16, 2019 10:42:46 GMT -5
When trump's past ten years of his federal tax returns are through being audited, trump will release them.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Oct 16, 2019 10:52:04 GMT -5
I was thinking, maybe it really is not about "we the people" seeing his tax returns but "they the financial institutions" turning off the spigot if they know too much...
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 16, 2019 11:10:13 GMT -5
Trump overvalues properties when getting insurance coverage - which is a felony. He undervalues those same properties when submitting his taxes - also a felony. It's a trick he learned from his Dad, who was a master of tax dodging.
Which is why Trump is trying so hard to keep his tax returns hidden. But the legal cases are grinding on, and sooner or later, they'll get released, and he'll have one more lawsuit he'll have to address once he's no longer POTUS.
I'm interested not just in his tax returns, I'm interested to hear from more the IRS whistleblower who claims the WH staff applied pressure to make changes to Trump's tax filings.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Oct 16, 2019 12:19:50 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 16, 2019 12:23:57 GMT -5
I care about public officials committing fraud. I care about public officials enriching themselves on the backs of the tax payers. I care about public officials lying and their base making lame excuses for them.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 16, 2019 12:25:52 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans trump supporters don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. FIFY. Most of us are smarter than you think.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 16, 2019 12:58:28 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. But think about it... with his tax returns made public Trump (and others) could crow about how clever and intelligent Trump's accountants/lawyers are that they could legally create as little taxable income for Trump. Trump making the system work (for him). Isn't that what it's all about. If Trump's a loser - he paid too much in taxes If Trump's a winner - he paid very little in taxes. "Good" Business leaders try to keep as much of their money as they can. Isn't that what Trump campaigned on? Businesses keeping even more of their money?? I want to see his tax returns. I want to know what his marginal tax rate was/is. I want to know how he sheltered his money (because maybe I could do that too...) I want to know any tricks or tips for sheltering income that his returns can provide. I would think Trump would have been PROUD to show off his paperwork and documentation. Maybe he's not as good or clever or smart as he thinks he is?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 16, 2019 13:05:35 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. But think about it... with his tax returns made public Trump (and others) could crow about how clever and intelligent Trump's accountants/lawyers are that they could legally create as little taxable income for Trump. Trump making the system work (for him). Isn't that what it's all about. If Trump's a loser - he paid too much in taxes If Trump's a winner - he paid very little in taxes. "Good" Business leaders try to keep as much of their money as they can. Isn't that what Trump campaigned on? Businesses keeping even more of their money?? I want to see his tax returns. I want to know what his marginal tax rate was/is. I want to know how he sheltered his money (because maybe I could do that too...) I want to know any tricks or tips for sheltering income that his returns can provide. I would think Trump would have been PROUD to show off his paperwork and documentation. Maybe he's not as good or clever or smart as he thinks he is? That, plus we're not all as stupid and gullible as he thinks we are.
Trump's made statements about his taxes being 'too complicated' for anyone else to understand. I have a feeling there are oodles and piles of tax lawyers who are plenty smart enough to understand them.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 16, 2019 13:07:56 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. Doesn't matter what MSN or Fox or anyone says - what matters is what the courts think.
Plenty of tax lawyers out there, including many who work for the IRS and state tax offices. If they identify fraud (or if his insurance carriers identify fraud) they will sue him. And that's the reason Trump doesn't want his taxes in the public domain.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 16, 2019 13:10:08 GMT -5
I think he's not as rich as he claims he is. That or there is someone around him savvy enough to point out it may piss off his core base if he shows how little in taxes he paid since part of his rallying cry is that he's for the "little guy".
Otherwise I don't care. There is more than enough garbage to impeach the asshole without the returns.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Oct 16, 2019 13:19:20 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. I have done our taxes for years...including doing taxes for every business we ever had...so not all of us are as dumb as you seem to think...please don't project yourself onto the rest of us. If DT has committed fraud, he should pay....that will be up to the courts. Am hoping he pays "biggly"!
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Oct 16, 2019 13:36:53 GMT -5
Is there a web site we can access that shows the tax returns of past candidates? I admit that I’ve never seen any that were submitted. The bookkeeper in me might find it interesting. Although I drug up from work 15 years ago because I couldn’t face another tax season.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 16, 2019 13:47:30 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. MSN will say what he is doing is criminal, Fox News will say that it's legal, and then everyone will side with whatever camp they are on. The ones in his camp understand it's fraud, they just don't care. Just about any numbnuts gets that submitting false financial info to governmental entities and banks is illegal.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 16, 2019 13:49:23 GMT -5
I think he's not as rich as he claims he is. That or there is someone around him savvy enough to point out it may piss off his core base if he shows how little in taxes he paid since part of his rallying cry is that he's for the "little guy". Otherwise I don't care. There is more than enough garbage to impeach the asshole without the returns. I saw an article somewhere online the other day that Trump's first campaign plan was to release his taxes to show how little he pays in taxes to show everyone how smart he is. His advisers were able to persuade him that this was a bad idea.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Oct 16, 2019 14:28:40 GMT -5
I don't know why people care so much about this. There are going to be a bunch of documents that Americans trump supporters don't understand and they will rely on pundits to interpret what they mean. FIFY. Most of us are smarter than you think. No offense, but I don't think doing your own taxes on turbo taxes qualifies you as a tax expert.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Oct 16, 2019 14:37:34 GMT -5
FIFY. Most of us are smarter than you think. No offense, but I don't think doing your own taxes on turbo taxes qualifies you as a tax expert. I have a BS in Accounting, but you are right, I am far from a Tax Expert. I do think the reason Trump is not releasing his returns is because he is a Tax Cheat. You are right in that just looking at the tax returns themselves without the backup detail, armchair tax experts may not be able to detect fraud. I do think though that experts will begin talking about what looks suspect, and the people that have the power to delve into the details will direct their efforts to the relevant areas. JMO.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 16, 2019 14:45:53 GMT -5
FIFY. Most of us are smarter than you think. No offense, but I don't think doing your own taxes on turbo taxes qualifies you as a tax expert. I know enough about tax law to know that I don't know jack about tax law. However, I do know that saying your property is worth $X to the bank, insurance company, or to calculate depreciation, but using a valuation of $X x .5 to lower your assessment and pay less in in real estate taxes is fraudulent, especially since you swear to tell the truth on all those papers.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 16, 2019 14:51:16 GMT -5
Wasn't Trump campaigning on giving businesses and the very wealthy MORE tax breaks because they were paying too much? Isn't that a paradox? Trump is wealthy (and a business) and if he managed to legally pay very little in taxes -- then in theory shouldn't the other wealthy/businesses have been able to do the same? Why would they need a tax break? While I do care if Trump did anything illegal - I think it would be eye opening to see just how much in taxes he actually paid.... it might build some sympathy in my cold rock hard heart for him and other wealthy people if indeed they are struggling under a millstone of taxes... Especially in light of this: www.propublica.org/article/trumps-trillion-dollar-hit-to-homeowners
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 16, 2019 15:03:24 GMT -5
FIFY. Most of us are smarter than you think. No offense, but I don't think doing your own taxes on turbo taxes qualifies you as a tax expert. Where did I claim to be an expert? I did not. I’m just not as dumb or gullible as a trump apologist
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Oct 16, 2019 15:05:30 GMT -5
No offense, but I don't think doing your own taxes on turbo taxes qualifies you as a tax expert. I have a BS in Accounting, but you are right, I am far from a Tax Expert. I do think the reason Trump is not releasing his returns is because he is a Tax Cheat. You are right in that just looking at the tax returns themselves without the backup detail, armchair tax experts may not be able to detect fraud. I do think though that experts will begin talking about what looks suspect, and the people that have the power to delve into the details will direct their efforts to the relevant areas. JMO. Heck, I don’t even have a BS in accounting but worked for CPA for years. Was just she and I so she taught me a lot that someone (support personal) without a degree might handle. But I can read/prepare a tax return business or personal with the best of them. But she was responsible for final product. So I bet you could pick one apart too!
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Oct 16, 2019 15:14:30 GMT -5
No offense, but I don't think doing your own taxes on turbo taxes qualifies you as a tax expert. I know enough about tax law to know that I don't know jack about tax law. However, I do know that saying your property is worth $X to the bank, insurance company, or to calculate depreciation, but using a valuation of $X x .5 to lower your assessment and pay less in in real estate taxes is fraudulent, especially since you swear to tell the truth on all those papers. Do you think the bank lends money off of Trump's stated value of the property? I worked at a community bank and we would only lend money based off of the LOWER of the assessed value and purchase price. What the customer told us it was worth had no bearing. Ditto with the insurance company. For my single family home, the insurance company sets the value based on replacement cost. I know this because I argued that I was insuring the house for too much and they said it's based off their calculation and they could not lower it for me. And since when does the owner of the property have any say into what a property is assessed at? The property assessor sets the value, you can contest, and they will either lower it or keep it the same. I don't know how it works on commercial property, but it can't be that much different from residential where you are basing the value off of similar properties in the area. Ultimately, it's up to the assessor to set the value. My bank, insurance company, and county have 3 different values for my home! Everyone does!
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 16, 2019 15:39:19 GMT -5
My bank, insurance company, and county have 3 different values for my home! Everyone does! Absolutely! I totally agree that business owners and home owners should be able to pay lawyers and who ever else is necessary so they can get their property value as low as is possible on the Tax Rolls. Why should they pay the appropriate tax on their property?? Where I live - people with houses valued over 1mil (as in they could sell the house for that or more) who are "special" can get the value of their property for tax purposes lowered so they are paying the same property tax as those houses in 500K and lower tier. ADDED: and I don't mean Grandma who's lived in the house for 30 years where the house has appreciated to 1mil. Grandma has her taxes frozen because she's 70yo and on a fixed income. i mean where someone purchased a house for 1mil - or bought it for 500K and then did improvements (like scraped off the roof and added another floor of living space) who is paying the same tax as Grandma. They aren't senior citizens nor on a fixed income... they paid to have their house assessed at a much lower value. I totally think that's fair. Why should rich people own houses in areas with "the common folk" and contribute to schools they don't send their kids to, or for infrastructure they don't use? or for improvements to communities they don't partake in? <--- that's sarcasm.. If the "common folk" want nice stuff they should pay for it themselves.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 16, 2019 15:47:16 GMT -5
I know enough about tax law to know that I don't know jack about tax law. However, I do know that saying your property is worth $X to the bank, insurance company, or to calculate depreciation, but using a valuation of $X x .5 to lower your assessment and pay less in in real estate taxes is fraudulent, especially since you swear to tell the truth on all those papers. Do you think the bank lends money off of Trump's stated value of the property? I worked at a community bank and we would only lend money based off of the LOWER of the assessed value and purchase price. What the customer told us it was worth had no bearing. Ditto with the insurance company. For my single family home, the insurance company sets the value based on replacement cost. I know this because I argued that I was insuring the house for too much and they said it's based off their calculation and they could not lower it for me. And since when does the owner of the property have any say into what a property is assessed at? The property assessor sets the value, you can contest, and they will either lower it or keep it the same. I don't know how it works on commercial property, but it can't be that much different from residential where you are basing the value off of similar properties in the area. Ultimately, it's up to the assessor to set the value. My bank, insurance company, and county have 3 different values for my home! Everyone does! Trump owns a lot of rental property, both commercial and residential, and he can easily cook the books by lying about things like how much rent he gets paid per unit, and what percentage of the units are currently rented.
Preparing a tax submission- he only gets X per unit, and only 60% of the building is rented. Wants to use the building as financial leverage to get a better interest rate on a bank loan - suddenly he's 90% rented out and everyone pays 2x in rent. A real cash cow!
Another way to cook the books (one his daddy taught him) is to claim he spent $500 K to spruce up Property A. Rewired the electrical, new windows, etc. This inflates his estimate of his building value by $500 k, which looks good when he's trying to fluff up his values. What he actually did, though, was send that $500 K to a corporation owned by his kids, and they falsify work sheet detailing all the money and labor that went into the repairs - but which never actually happened. Want to reduce his tax burden on that building? Just get someone to appraise it as is, without that $500K in 'repairs' - and voila, it's a whole lot cheaper, on paper.
Trump's daddy was the master tax cheat. When he died, rather than leaving millions to his kids,, he died with somewhere around 300K to his name, having used various schemes to transfer all the money to his kids (mostly Donald) before he died, so they wouldn't have to pay estate taxes. He was an evil tax genius, and some of that rubbed off on his son.
Unfortunately, those of us who just own our own home can never take advantage of those kinds of millionaire tax cheats.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Oct 16, 2019 16:51:10 GMT -5
My bank, insurance company, and county have 3 different values for my home! Everyone does! Absolutely! I totally agree that business owners and home owners should be able to pay lawyers and who ever else is necessary so they can get their property value as low as is possible on the Tax Rolls. Why should they pay the appropriate tax on their property?? Where I live - people with houses valued over 1mil (as in they could sell the house for that or more) who are "special" can get the value of their property for tax purposes lowered so they are paying the same property tax as those houses in 500K and lower tier. I totally think that's fair. Why should rich people own houses in areas with "the common folk" and contribute to schools they don't send their kids to, or for infrastructure they don't use? or for improvements to communities they don't partake in? <--- that's sarcasm.. If the "common folk" want nice stuff they should pay for it themselves. What's appropriate? The assessors are setting the value and there is a process for getting it lowered based on comparables.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 16, 2019 17:01:23 GMT -5
Absolutely! I totally agree that business owners and home owners should be able to pay lawyers and who ever else is necessary so they can get their property value as low as is possible on the Tax Rolls. Why should they pay the appropriate tax on their property?? Where I live - people with houses valued over 1mil (as in they could sell the house for that or more) who are "special" can get the value of their property for tax purposes lowered so they are paying the same property tax as those houses in 500K and lower tier. I totally think that's fair. Why should rich people own houses in areas with "the common folk" and contribute to schools they don't send their kids to, or for infrastructure they don't use? or for improvements to communities they don't partake in? <--- that's sarcasm.. If the "common folk" want nice stuff they should pay for it themselves. What's appropriate? The assessors are setting the value and there is a process for getting it lowered based on comparables. Yep, and there's plenty of ways to have one's million dollar house be comparable to an under 500K house. I know my 150K 2/1 house (with a 1947 kitchen and original 1947 bathroom) and unfinished basement gets taxed as the "comparable" 2 or 3/2 bath houses with remodeled kitchens/baths (500K houses) every couple of years. Some years I'm successful in getting my property taxes lowered sometimes I'm not. I don't see any of my 500K neighbors trying to pass their houses as "comparable" to mine.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Oct 16, 2019 17:17:15 GMT -5
FIFY. Most of us are smarter than you think. No offense, but I don't think doing your own taxes on turbo taxes qualifies you as a tax expert. You assume a bit much ….first I've NEVER used turbo tax and second, I was doing our business AND personal taxes way before Turbo tax every came into existence. As I said before....don't project yourself onto the rest of us. And to clarify, I never claimed to be a tax expert either...however, many of us can figure out tax papers...they aren't always all that hard.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Oct 16, 2019 20:17:18 GMT -5
First it's no one's business. Its not like it is a requirement to submit them. Second I'm sure it will show he has a very low marginal tax rate, he probaby pays alot of money to alot of people to make that happen. It will probably show he has business interest all over the world including Russia, again who cares he is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing why his supporters sent him there fix the previous 8 yrs of democrat crap and run the country without all the social bull
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 16, 2019 21:02:52 GMT -5
It certainly is the business of every American whether the POTUS. has lied on his tax returns and/or is using his position to enrich himself. It’s everyone’s business to know whether he is putting his own interests above those of the American people.
I understand why his supporters don’t want to face the truth... It’s not pretty.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 12:00:07 GMT -5
I want to know what dt is hiding, though the following may be a part of the problem/reason he is so desparate to keep them secret:
"More questions have arisen surrounding President Trump's businesses after ProPublica obtained documents via New York's Freedom of Information Law. The documents show that for two of Trump's New York properties — 40 Wall Street and the Trump International Hotel and Tower — different financial figures were reported to lenders and to tax authorities. ..."
www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-businesses-reportedly-gave-different-135300856.html
and yet the strumpettes keep insisting there is nothing to see...
There is nothing to see but boring facts and figures of a tax return. He uses tax attorneys anyway. They are quite limited in what they can do in regards to the law. All the arguments about what 'he' has done on his taxes, is mere partisan speculation.
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