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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 16:35:33 GMT -5
But wouldn't a vet have a moral obligation not to kill an otherwise healthy animal? Admittedly, I am not up on medical standards of vets. But I can't euthanize my child just because I can't afford their medical bills. I'm certainly not stepping in the middle of the arguing, but I wouldn't think a vet could just euthanize an animal without cause. But I could be wrong. They euthanize thousands of healthy animals every single day just because there are no homes for them all. Euthanasia isn't legal for humans. It is a false analogy. My son's outdoor cat (DIL is allergic) got into a fight with something. It was in bad shape so he took it to the vet. He told the vet to make sure it didn't suffer but no heroic measures. Several hours later, the doctor told him that the cat would survive. It cost him $1000. He has 4 kids. They couldn't afford $1000 to treat this cat's wounds but paid it. Next time he probably wouldn't take it to the vet at all. Is that an improvement?
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Oct 16, 2019 7:36:26 GMT -5
One of the things that bothers me is the idea that if you don't have a lot of money and can't afford a $1,000 vet bill then you shouldn't have a pet. Shasta lives in poverty but adopted and cared for two dogs, making sure they were fed and had very basic medical care. If she, and millions like her, didn't take care of animals until they are in a much better financial situation then so many more animals will be euthanized.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 7:57:43 GMT -5
One of the things that bothers me is the idea that if you don't have a lot of money and can't afford a $1,000 vet bill then you shouldn't have a pet. Shasta lives in poverty but adopted and cared for two dogs, making sure they were fed and had very basic medical care. If she, and millions like her, don't take care of animals until they are in a much better financial situation then so many more animals will be euthanized. Exactly! There is seriously mass killings of dogs and cats in shelters every single day. How is a home that would euthanize facing a large vet bill worse than just killing them outright? MOST of my animals have lived LOOONG lives without ever even having to face that decision. I HATE hearing preaching that nobody should take in an animal unless they're committed to spend thousands because A home with a loving owner, basic care, and a promise to not let them suffer if they become injured or sick, is so much better than NO home, and so many just need A home.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 16, 2019 8:03:43 GMT -5
We could have spent close to $4k on cancer care for Sabah but we refused. We couldn't afford it and after doing research on it chemo for lymphoma in Aussies has a low success rate, especially if it's a relapse (looking back now I know that's what the tumor we had removed when she was five was). She lived 13 years at that point, which is long for a large breed dog.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 16, 2019 8:12:37 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the dog adopted Shasta.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 16, 2019 10:05:09 GMT -5
But wouldn't a vet have a moral obligation not to kill an otherwise healthy animal? Admittedly, I am not up on medical standards of vets. But I can't euthanize my child just because I can't afford their medical bills. I'm certainly not stepping in the middle of the arguing, but I wouldn't think a vet could just euthanize an animal without cause. But I could be wrong. They euthanize thousands of healthy animals every single day just because there are no homes for them all. this is something that I just can't discuss. I'm a huge dog lover and I juts cannot comprehend putting a dog down for lack of homes. I wish people would spay/neuter their damn dogs so this didn't happen :-( What I found interesting (sad, really) is there is nothing to stop a vet from euthanizing an animal just because of cost. They even have a term "economic euthanasia". But I also stand behind a vet who couldn't euthanize an animal for that reason. I wish I would have avoided this subject because after some google searches, I'm just damn depressed.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 16, 2019 10:10:12 GMT -5
At just 6 months of age our golden puppy was diagnosed with congenital kidney disease. She is now on prescription dog food ($$$), frequent vet visits with the specialist ($$$) and long term we know we will be looking at IV, medicine, etc.
My 10 year old pom has congestive heart failure so she is on 3 medicines a day and special dog food (but she eats much less so it is not terribly expensive).
Pets are expensive. I can see how people can't afford them. I would hate to see my golden put down because she was part of someone else's family and she couldn't get the care she needed and deserved. I also understand that not everyone can afford to pay for her care. I am a firm believer in not getting an animal that you can't afford but I suppose that goes along with my overall politics!lol
Did I mention this thread has deeply depressed me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 11:03:33 GMT -5
They euthanize thousands of healthy animals every single day just because there are no homes for them all. this is something that I just can't discuss. I'm a huge dog lover and I juts cannot comprehend putting a dog down for lack of homes. I wish people would spay/neuter their damn dogs so this didn't happen :-( What I found interesting (sad, really) is there is nothing to stop a vet from euthanizing an animal just because of cost. They even have a term "economic euthanasia". But I also stand behind a vet who couldn't euthanize an animal for that reason. I wish I would have avoided this subject because after some google searches, I'm just damn depressed. And that's just it. You can't tell people to not get pets that can't afford expensive medical care and ignore the fact that dumpster loads are put to sleep because they don't have homes. You can be angry that is happening, but what is the alternative? No shelter can just take in every dog/cat dropped off and provide for it forever. SOMEBODY has to pay for all their care and every organization just like every individual has limited resources.
Personally, I think more effort needs to be put into expanding spay/neuter programs. Not just in providing low cost surgery, as there are options out there if people actively sought them out, but incentives to actually do it. Hell, PAY people to get their animals fixed! Require any animal collected by animal control to be fixed as a condition of getting them back. Put heavy restrictions on intentional dog breeding. I live in puppy mill central for my state, so that alone would save a lot of lives.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 16, 2019 11:21:21 GMT -5
this is something that I just can't discuss. I'm a huge dog lover and I juts cannot comprehend putting a dog down for lack of homes. I wish people would spay/neuter their damn dogs so this didn't happen :-( What I found interesting (sad, really) is there is nothing to stop a vet from euthanizing an animal just because of cost. They even have a term "economic euthanasia". But I also stand behind a vet who couldn't euthanize an animal for that reason. I wish I would have avoided this subject because after some google searches, I'm just damn depressed. And that's just it. You can't tell people to not get pets that can't afford expensive medical care and ignore the fact that dumpster loads are put to sleep because they don't have homes. You can be angry that is happening, but what is the alternative? No shelter can just take in every dog/cat dropped off and provide for it forever. SOMEBODY has to pay for all their care and every organization just like every individual has limited resources.
Personally, I think more effort needs to be put into expanding spay/neuter programs. Not just in providing low cost surgery, as there are options out there if people actively sought them out, but incentives to actually do it. Hell, PAY people to get their animals fixed! Require any animal collected by animal control to be fixed as a condition of getting them back. Put heavy restrictions on intentional dog breeding. I live in puppy mill central for my state, so that alone would save a lot of lives.
I didn't mean that I literally can't discuss it...I just meant the reading that I did because of this thread has made me wish I didn't jump on this thread to discuss because I don't have any clue on how to solve this. We can't get people to be responsible with their own children, let alone manning up and paying to spay/neuter their dogs. I would be on board with forcing owners to get their dogs/cats spayed/neutered with medical exceptions only (for example, it is higher risk for my golden so at this point we have not spayed her. Twice we have taken her to get spayed and twice her kidney function levels were too high (that also means twice we paid the $200 for bloodwork). Actually, put the onus on the seller. It is illegal to sell an animal that isn't spayed/neutered and if caught you get substantial fines and penalties. That would potentially cut down on the puppy mill side, too.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 16, 2019 14:06:01 GMT -5
I'm sure MPL sees this, but my sister has animals (usually litters) dumped at her farm all the time. They don't feed them and they eventually disappear.
It would be better for the animal if they were taken to a no-kill shelter. In the last 20 years, each cat I have adopted from a shelter has been spayed or neutered when I brought them home.
In earlier years, I got a coupon that was worth $$$ to spay/neuter at participating vets. Not everyone followed through so shelters went to not adopting out animals who are not spayed or neutered.
I need Lucy Cat. She is my emotional support. I don't get much of that from anyone but her. When my depression takes over, she is the only reason I get out of bed. She depends on me to care for her and I need that in my life.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 14:45:40 GMT -5
I'm sure MPL sees this, but my sister has animals dumped at her farm all the time. They don't feed them and they eventually disappear. Unfortunately, yes. One time we even caught them in the act pulling over and tossing kittens out the door.
With cats it's harder to tell if they were abandoned (unless you see it!) because they're so independent and roam anyhow. I always get strays coming through. I do feed whatever wants to eat in my barn, so I've had some long term strays, but even they move on.
Puppies though, it's pretty damn obvious when one of those shows up that they were dumped. It's happened twice since I've been out there, once was a pair of spaniel looking pups maybe 3 or 4 months old. They were happy, bouncy running around pups, but not from anywhere around here, and puppies that size don't wander far. The other was a TINY FREAKING PUPPY. There's no way in hell that poor thing ended up in my yard without someone dumping it. It was just wandering around in about a 30 foot radius crying for his mom. I took all of these to the shelter, the little one actually needed to be bottle fed for a while.
It's people like that that piss me off, not those that humanely euthanize injured or ill animals.
eta: We kept the 4 kittens dumped in front of us and one of them ended up getting hit by a snowmobile that first winter. I was married and there was a lot more money back then and we did pay a couple thousand to fix two broken legs on that kitten that was dumped on my lawn. He got moved up to house cat status after that because there was no way I was going to allow him to be outside after investing all that money! He had probably 14 good years before we had to put him down a few years ago. Despite that good outcome, I can't say I would do it again for our barn cat if the same were to happen to her this winter. I'm poorer and she's older and can't be inside. I remind her to look both ways before crossing the road and to stay away from the snowmobile trail.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 16, 2019 16:32:19 GMT -5
It's the puppies that break my sister's heart. Someone had to them.
While cats wonder, they are pretty isolated so she figures the kittens have been dumped.
When her FIL was still working the farm, he had a hired hand who lived in a shack on the farm, along with about 100 cats. That man loved each of those cats and he took better care of them than he did himself. I doubt any of those cats ever saw a vet.
BIL had a fit when sister wanted their first dog to have vaccines. He finally gave in. They have spent a fortune in vet fees for their current dog, as she has had both ACLs tear and had surgery.
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