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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 10:10:25 GMT -5
This has been a really stressful week. My old lab jumped over my 4' fence the other day to chase a stray dog and I am pretty sure he blew out his knee. He's been trying to walk on 3 legs and is acting like he's in a lot of pain. He has a fatty tumor on his chest that affects one of his front shoulders, so he's having a really hard time walking on 2.5 legs... I called the local lower-cost vet yesterday and he's going to look at my dog later this afternoon. I'm honestly not too hopeful he can live with this problem and I know the $3K+ surgery isn't in the budget. I don't want to lose my dog, but I also don't want him to suffer. He's had an amazing life and adventured all over this area with me but this really sucks.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 29, 2019 10:48:36 GMT -5
It does suck. Big time.
I know you’ll make the best decision for your beloved dog. It is probably of little consolation, but when we said “goodbye” to ours, I felt that giving her a good death (holding her in my arms while the vet administered euthansia) was the last gift I could give her. I was not going to allow her to suffer.
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kent
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Post by kent on Sept 29, 2019 11:03:24 GMT -5
I'm so sorry you are faced with this.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 29, 2019 11:48:12 GMT -5
I’m sorry. These are hard decisions to make. I have had to make my share of them too.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 29, 2019 11:55:29 GMT -5
I'm really sorry, rockhounder. I, too, know how it hurts to have to put down a furry family member.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 29, 2019 12:13:28 GMT -5
I'm so sorry you are faced with this.
Thanks for the video, Kent, though I skipped the last two minutes. I've done that too many times and it hurts each time I have to do it.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 29, 2019 14:09:10 GMT -5
I have had to do this with too many cats and it's never been easy. Some day in the distant future (I hope), I will have to make the decision about Lucy.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Sept 29, 2019 14:36:32 GMT -5
How old is he?
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Sept 29, 2019 17:56:08 GMT -5
If he blew his ACL, you might have some luck with crate rest over surgery, but it is really dog dependent. I'm really sorry he is in pain.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 18:21:50 GMT -5
I spent $2000 repairing both of Abby's ACLs in her hind paws. It was worth it, but we could afford it. It was a couple of years ago, but now that she is 12 and DH is sick, I don't know if I would make the same decision. Fortunately, it is not an issue I have to think about. I have always said I won't fight cancer in a dog. I will let her go when it is necessary. She is a rescue dog, but we sometimes debate who rescued whom. I think she rescued us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 18:41:34 GMT -5
I spent $2000 repairing both of Abby's ACLs in her hind paws. It was worth it, but we could afford it. It was a couple of years ago, but now that she is 12 and DH is sick, I don't know if I would make the same decision. Fortunately, it is not an issue I have to think about. I have always said I won't fight cancer in a dog. I will let her go when it is necessary. She is a rescue dog, but we sometimes debate who rescued whom. I think she rescued us. She's a smaller dog though right? ACL surgery has a lot lower success rate in the large breeds. I've known more than one person that ended up putting their big dog down after spending thousands on surgery and having them suffering for months, and with her dog already having mobility issues in another limb and being old, he's probably a bad candidate for surgery even if there was money.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 19:47:39 GMT -5
I spent $2000 repairing both of Abby's ACLs in her hind paws. It was worth it, but we could afford it. It was a couple of years ago, but now that she is 12 and DH is sick, I don't know if I would make the same decision. Fortunately, it is not an issue I have to think about. I have always said I won't fight cancer in a dog. I will let her go when it is necessary. She is a rescue dog, but we sometimes debate who rescued whom. I think she rescued us. She's a smaller dog though right? ACL surgery has a lot lower success rate in the large breeds. I've known more than one person that ended up putting their big dog down after spending thousands on surgery and having them suffering for months, and with her dog already having mobility issues in another limb and being old, he's probably a bad candidate for surgery even if there was money. Abby is a cocked spaniel so medium size. We had to do two legs. Even with that, she requires doggy steps to get on the sofa or bed.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Sept 29, 2019 22:16:03 GMT -5
How is your doggie doing?. Hopefully the vet had good news for you.❤
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 8:05:42 GMT -5
My dog is about 8. He was found in the woods by horseback riders after having been dumped as a young dog.
That's where I got him. He and his brother dog were starving and living on lizards and grass when they were found. My dog had just died, so I took both labs. His brother disappeared one day when I was in town shopping.
The vet refused to put him down because he technically has a "fixable" problem though I can't afford to fix him. They kept telling me they would take payments and pushing me to agree to the cost. Sorry, can't afford the payments so WTF am I supposed to do crap the cash?
They gave him 2 shots and I am supposed to go back every two weeks and get him more shots I can't afford. I'm also supposed to order him Remadyl that I also can't afford. He's supposed to be locked in a crate and only leash walked for 6 months. Yeah, let me get dressed at 2am and walk my dog in the snow...
After 6 months he "may" see some improvement though the vet said he would probably get excited, chase something, and tear the ligament again. Basically, he's always going to have pain, always be lame, and I'm just supposed to watch him hurt.
I waited over 3 hours to see the vet yesterday only for him to basically make me feel horrible about not coughing up over $1K to "fix" my dog.
I told the vet I will try all the medications I can't afford and if he doesn't get any better then I will put him down myself if I have to rather than watch him suffering.
We got home from the vet, my dog walked across the kitchen floor and again fell. How I am supposed to just sit back and watch my dog struggle is a mystery and I am still kinda pissed off, honestly.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Sept 30, 2019 8:11:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry, @rockhounder. There should be a better way.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 8:13:41 GMT -5
That sucks. Some vets are not always the most understanding when it comes to budget constraints. FWIW, my lab was about 10 when she hurt her leg and I refused the surgery. She did get better on meds and rest after only a few weeks and lived for a couple more years without leg pain until cancer got her.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 30, 2019 8:38:43 GMT -5
I'm sorry rockhounder. And I'm sorrier that the vet wasn't more helpful. Maybe call the pricier vet and talk to them? Explain the problem and see if they will help you put him down when you're ready?
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Sept 30, 2019 9:25:40 GMT -5
I wonder if a leg brace would help him? Amazon has them for $15-$20. Maybe at least would slow him down so it would have a better chance of healing?
Like MPL, I also know of a dog who didn't have surgery and he eventually was much better after a month or so.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 30, 2019 9:27:12 GMT -5
This makes me sad.
I had a cat who needed surgery I absolutely could not afford. When I asked the vet to put him down instead, she refused but offered to do the surgery and find him a new home. I did that.
I had also been down the same path with another cat that was the reason for the surgery. If the path for that cat had been the same as with the first cat, it would have been endless vet care I could not afford until a vet agreed his kidneys were damaged enough to have him put down.
That was one of the hardest decisions I've ever made and it was not made lightly.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 30, 2019 9:36:34 GMT -5
I'm sorry you got stuck with an jerk for a vet. A lot of those people live in a different reality than the rest of us.
Definitely call around and explain the situation. Euthanasia is preferable to living in pain with limited mobility. Dh's job used to accept owner relinquishes in those kinds of situations. The owner would relinquish the pet to the vet, then they'd fix them up and adopt them out. It's how we got our 4th dog, but they've really cut down on that option. I'm not sure they do it at all anymore, and even if the vets office does something like that you'd have to take him in, and that's where it gets difficult to also keep taking them in for the cost of office visits, and I know transportation is an issue for you too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 9:43:04 GMT -5
I had a cat who needed surgery I absolutely could not afford. When I asked the vet to put him down instead, she refused but offered to do the surgery and find him a new home. I did that. This annoys me. I get that vets can't give away their services, but if she's going to do it anyhow, why not let the cat go back to it's home that it knows with the owner that loves him? There are millions of healthy cats sitting in the shelters waiting to be adopted, it's not like people are lined up waiting for a repo cat from the vet.
I suppose the reasoning is it would set a precedent and people would be telling her left and right they couldn't afford treatment.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 30, 2019 9:53:29 GMT -5
I had a cat who needed surgery I absolutely could not afford. When I asked the vet to put him down instead, she refused but offered to do the surgery and find him a new home. I did that. This annoys me. I get that vets can't give away their services, but if she's going to do it anyhow, why not let the cat go back to it's home that it knows with the owner that loves him? There are millions of healthy cats sitting in the shelters waiting to be adopted, it's not like people are lined up waiting for a repo cat from the vet.
I suppose the reasoning is it would set a precedent and people would be telling her left and right they couldn't afford treatment.
If you can't afford the medical care for a pet, should you own a pet? Obviously circumstances change and you can't predict what is going to happen in 5, 10, and 15 years, and I hate the pervasive attitude that doing anything but everything for your pets (including living out of your car, taking loans to pay for bills, and my favorite, "well the dog was there first" when a dog attacked a newborn and the owners were relinquishing it for aggression) isn't good enough. But so many people have pets and can only afford the most basic cost of food, and blame the rest of the world when the animal needs something beyond that when they could have chosen to not have a pet, and not be in that situation. I don't see a problem with that solution.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 10:05:59 GMT -5
If you can't afford the medical care for a pet, should you own a pet? If you can't afford ANY medical care for a pet you shouldn't have one? Where do you draw the line? I don't think opting to euthanize a cat over paying for an expensive surgery is necessarily someone that shouldn't own a pet. There are so many healthy cats out there that need homes and thousands being euthanized every week just because they don't have someone to provide them basic care.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 30, 2019 10:29:45 GMT -5
If you can't afford the medical care for a pet, should you own a pet? If you can't afford ANY medical care for a pet you shouldn't have one? Where do you draw the line? I don't think opting to euthanize a cat over paying for an expensive surgery is necessarily someone that shouldn't own a pet. There are so many healthy cats out there that need homes and thousands being euthanized every week just because they don't have someone to provide them basic care.
I don't know where the line is, but I still think its a valid question and something that needs to be considered heavily when taking on a pet. It's not that unusual to have a $1k-$3k surgical need in relatively young (small) animals. Large dogs the cost is higher for the same procedures. Plenty of people think the the vet should provide all the care for free because they love animals and the owners can barely afford the office visit. That obviously doesn't work. Taking in an animal that is in need and providing it love and a good home for as long as you can is a great deed. But if the day comes that you can't provide for that animal, relinquishing it to someone who can is a sad but compassionate answer imo.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 10:54:05 GMT -5
But if the day comes that you can't provide for that animal, relinquishing it to someone who can is a sad but compassionate answer imo. I would happily hand my animals over to someone that could afford to provide any medical care for them and would be willing to do so (well, maybe not the house cats because the kids would kill me), but who are these people and how do I find them? I realize there are people on YM that can afford to spend anything on their pets, but in the real world, many are struggling and 3K is a big deal. So, basically I'd be trading the known for the unknown. They could be going to a better place, or they could be much worse off. Except my three remaining chickens and one horse, all my animals are rescues, the ponies were from horrible conditions where they were impounded by the sheriffs department. They could end up back in a place like that.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 30, 2019 11:25:29 GMT -5
But if the day comes that you can't provide for that animal, relinquishing it to someone who can is a sad but compassionate answer imo. I would happily hand my animals over to someone that could afford to provide any medical care for them and would be willing to do so (well, maybe not the house cats because the kids would kill me), but who are these people and how do I find them? I realize there are people on YM that can afford to spend anything on their pets, but in the real world, many are struggling and 3K is a big deal. So, basically I'd be trading the known for the unknown. They could be going to a better place, or they could be much worse off. Except my three remaining chickens and one horse, all my animals are rescues, the ponies were from horrible conditions where they were impounded by the sheriffs department. They could end up back in a place like that. I'm not trying to argue. Its tough situation, and I've owned more pets than I should have for most of my life and paid out dearly for it at times. I'm the first to say choose euthanasia. But if the Vet can and will do the surgery and then rehome the animal, I don't see that as the vet being selfish. They aren't huge shelters, they typically have some kind of client relationship with people adopting from them already. If you're down to the point of having to euthanize over something fixable with a high probability of recovery and you can save the animal, but just not keep it that is a kindness imo. The vets that offer this probably have a non-profit part that provides the care for those animals, because even if the vet offers their time for free, the $12 an hour vet techs probably can't offer that too. There are hard costs involved even when stripping down the labor costs as far as possible. Maybe you can find donors who will give money to do all that and return them to the original owner, but I think it's probably easier to find donors when the goal is rehabilitate and rehome. If you go back to my first post I also said that vet/animal people often live in another universe and those are the people most likely to donate money to these set ups. Plus how many more people would try to take advantage of it if they could just get the vet care for free? I worked with a woman who made good money, but used the low cost vet by having her mom go with her to the appointments and using her mom's ss as their "only" income to qualify. She didn't see a problem with that, and she wasn't a monster, just wanted to get a deal. So many people would try for that loophole because none of us can "afford" emergency surgery. But many people can find a way to make it work if they have to.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Sept 30, 2019 11:35:37 GMT -5
There is a $$$ limit on what I will spend on my pet for surgery. I don't have unlimited funds. Not too many people do.
I am in a better place financially now than I was then but given what the diagnosis was, I am not sure I would have say yes to surgery. The surgery that was suggested was not a permanent fix. It was a temporary fix and I had been in those shoes before with the same disease. I had the surgery performed on my cat and spent the next dozen years spending thousands of dollars for the same disease. That is what I am not sure I would do today.
Ultimately the vet decided enough had been done for that cat and he was euthanized. He lived with more pain in his life than he needed to.
Should I be means tested before I get a pet. Lucy is my lifeline and I would spend $$$ on her health but I don't know what the $$$ is when I say I can't do that. I have pet health insurance for Lucy so that day will hopefully be in the distant future. $3K would still be a big deal for me.
I didn't put this on here to be judged for something I did probably 15 years ago. I'm not perfect. I saved that kitten and his litter mate from the shelter. They had been left in a dumpster to die. When x-raying for what was wrong with him, we found he had bb's embedded in his body that had to be from when he was a kitten. I gave him several good years and I still had his sister.
If I couldn't afford any medicare care for my pet, I would not have one, but I can. I'm not sure I'm willing to pay $3K of money I don't have.
Should you have a child you can't afford? People do that all the time, too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 11:39:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm not trying to argue either. It's just a touchy subject for me because I know I would not spend thousands but my pets are all very loved and spoiled rotten.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Sept 30, 2019 11:46:42 GMT -5
Something that helped my GSD when her hips failed was to use a bath towel as a sling. I would walk along beside her, taking the weight off of her back legs. She was 13, which is old for a GSD with bad hips but it was still too far soon for me. I have to say that I'm not sure I'd have ACL surgery on an 8 year old lab, especially one that is used to being active. It's never an easy decision.
Sometimes I find myself looking at little Gizmo, my 2 y/o Norwich Terrier Terrier Maltese cross, thinking of that day to come on many years, how much I will miss him, and how rough that day will be will be - morose I know.
I wish I could somehow make this easier for you. Sending hugs and prayers of love and support for you, Rockhounder.
ETA - regarding the woman who went to the low cost vet and used her mother's SS as income, in no way is that getting a bargain. That is fraud and theft. It is people like that that make others reluctant to support programs like that and also create hardships for those who really need them.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 30, 2019 11:47:44 GMT -5
I'm not judging anyone, but obviously what I'm trying to say isn't what I'm actually saying.
I would choose euthanasia over suffering if I couldn't afford treatment or if I didn't believe there was a strong likelihood of recovery, or if I'm not in a position to work through the recovery process. If a vet has an owner relinquish option for 1 or 3 though, I would likely accept it and be grateful for the option.
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