Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 14, 2019 21:27:03 GMT -5
Labor Dept. proposes granting businesses with federal contracts 'religious exemption' in hiringThe Department of Labor proposed a rule Wednesday allowing “religion-exercising organizations” with federal contracts to raise religious exemptions if accused of bias in their hiring practices. The Labor Department said the proposal, which is set to officially be published in the Federal Register on Thursday, is intended to help companies “make employment decisions consistent with their sincerely held religious tenets and beliefs without fear of sanction by the federal government.” The Labor Department's Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP), which regulates federal anti-discrimination requirements for businesses and other organizations that work with the government, said the rule applies to both religious companies as well as “closely held” groups acting in accordance with their owners’ religious beliefs and is based on past laws and court rulings detailing protections for certain groups. “Today’s proposed rule helps to ensure the civil rights of religious employers are protected,” acting Labor Secretary Patrick Pizzella said in a statement. “As people of faith with deeply held religious beliefs are making decisions on whether to participate in federal contracting, they deserve clear understanding of their obligations and protections under the law.” The proposal will be open for public comments until Sept. 16. Complete article here: Labor Dept. proposes granting businesses with federal contracts 'religious exemption' in hiring
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 14, 2019 21:37:22 GMT -5
In other words, they can refuse to hire "the gays". What about THEIR civil rights?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2019 23:34:00 GMT -5
terrible idea.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Aug 15, 2019 2:35:49 GMT -5
I’m quite sure all the 2nd amendment activists will get really, really upset about this abridgment of the 1st. Any minute now. Real soon. Maybe tomorrow but you know it’s coming. Hello! Hello!
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 15, 2019 6:35:18 GMT -5
In other words, they can refuse to hire "the gays". What about THEIR civil rights? Will this also allow 'religious' organizations like Chick Fil A the ability to refuse to cover contraception or IVF treatments in their health insurance coverage because they don't believe in any kind of 'interference' with the reproductive process?
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spartyparty
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Post by spartyparty on Aug 15, 2019 6:50:26 GMT -5
It's my sincerely held belief that my tax dollars shouldn't be going to these “religion-exercising organizations”. Besides, hasn't anyone told these people not to mix business with pleasure??
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 15, 2019 7:52:14 GMT -5
So if I'm hired by some evangelical a la Mike Pence, I can't talk to him or another man without another person around? That would certainly hurt my chances at advancement.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 8:04:03 GMT -5
So if I'm hired by some evangelical a la Mike Pence, I can't talk to him or another man without another person around? That would certainly hurt my chances at advancement. One of the presidents at my prior job would never meet with a woman alone in a closed door meeting. Once rumors that one of the VPs was having an inappropriate relationship with a colleague started, he had a very frank discussion with the VP and told him to never, ever have a closed door meeting with a female alone as you are putting yourself at risk. And I want to note that the president was a liberal. He despised Trump, was fairly progressive (considering the position he had), etc. I'm not saying it is right but I can totally understand where he is coming from.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 15, 2019 8:26:35 GMT -5
I absolutely understand where Pence and MT, old boss were coming from.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 15, 2019 9:39:28 GMT -5
So if I'm hired by some evangelical a la Mike Pence, I can't talk to him or another man without another person around? That would certainly hurt my chances at advancement. One of the presidents at my prior job would never meet with a woman alone in a closed door meeting. Once rumors that one of the VPs was having an inappropriate relationship with a colleague started, he had a very frank discussion with the VP and told him to never, ever have a closed door meeting with a female alone as you are putting yourself at risk. And I want to note that the president was a liberal. He despised Trump, was fairly progressive (considering the position he had), etc. I'm not saying it is right but I can totally understand where he is coming from. I don't. I think it's unfortunate. My career would be no where near what it is if I couldn't meet with men alone. When I was an ADA, it was often my job to sit in on meetings with the DA and a woman who was known to be unstable, but he met with plenty of other women with no one around, including sex assault victims. Nobody ever accused him of anything inappropriate, because he wasn't in appropriate. If this progressive guy is afraid to meet with women, maybe he should check his own behavior first.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 15, 2019 10:16:25 GMT -5
So if I'm hired by some evangelical a la Mike Pence, I can't talk to him or another man without another person woman or man related to me around? That would certainly hurt my chances at advancement. There I fixed that. I suspect the evangelicals would also frown on a woman being alone with 2 or more men (especially when none of them IS not her 'chaperone.') Which means you might not be welcome at business meetings or business lunches etc.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 15, 2019 10:49:45 GMT -5
It's sounding more and more like the Middle East.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 15, 2019 11:30:29 GMT -5
One of the presidents at my prior job would never meet with a woman alone in a closed door meeting. Once rumors that one of the VPs was having an inappropriate relationship with a colleague started, he had a very frank discussion with the VP and told him to never, ever have a closed door meeting with a female alone as you are putting yourself at risk. And I want to note that the president was a liberal. He despised Trump, was fairly progressive (considering the position he had), etc. I'm not saying it is right but I can totally understand where he is coming from. I don't. I think it's unfortunate. My career would be no where near what it is if I couldn't meet with men alone. When I was an ADA, it was often my job to sit in on meetings with the DA and a woman who was known to be unstable, but he met with plenty of other women with no one around, including sex assault victims. Nobody ever accused him of anything inappropriate, because he wasn't in appropriate. If this progressive guy is afraid to meet with women, maybe he should check his own behavior first. I don't get this either. Any person can accuse any other person of sexual harassment or being in an inappropriate relationship. Its not strictly just male bosses and their female colleagues. If I wasn't allowed to be alone in a room with men, I probably wouldn't even have my career right now.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 11:42:51 GMT -5
One of the presidents at my prior job would never meet with a woman alone in a closed door meeting. Once rumors that one of the VPs was having an inappropriate relationship with a colleague started, he had a very frank discussion with the VP and told him to never, ever have a closed door meeting with a female alone as you are putting yourself at risk. And I want to note that the president was a liberal. He despised Trump, was fairly progressive (considering the position he had), etc. I'm not saying it is right but I can totally understand where he is coming from. I don't. I think it's unfortunate. My career would be no where near what it is if I couldn't meet with men alone. When I was an ADA, it was often my job to sit in on meetings with the DA and a woman who was known to be unstable, but he met with plenty of other women with no one around, including sex assault victims. Nobody ever accused him of anything inappropriate, because he wasn't in appropriate. If this progressive guy is afraid to meet with women, maybe he should check his own behavior first. Perhaps...but I knew him for several years and never saw or heard anything inappropriate from him (either personally or through the grape vine). We are now in the world where everyone is super-sensitive and easily offended. If I were a guy I do not know that I would want to be alone with a female, either. And that is unfortunate, but I am also not the one at risk of being accused of something. And in a world where the woman's word is gold, I do not think I would take the risk. I know we've all had these discussions before..we will never agree!lol
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 11:44:56 GMT -5
Well that's good. I'm not going to hire "the Republicans." Except you have no way of knowing my political leanings when I am interviewing. And if asked, I would claim that I am not political because it is really no one's business how I vote.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 15, 2019 11:50:22 GMT -5
Well that's good. I'm not going to hire "the Republicans." Except you have no way of knowing my political leanings when I am interviewing. And if asked, I would claim that I am not political because it is really no one's business how I vote. Which is how I feel about my faith. It's between me and God.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 11:51:21 GMT -5
I don't. I think it's unfortunate. My career would be no where near what it is if I couldn't meet with men alone. When I was an ADA, it was often my job to sit in on meetings with the DA and a woman who was known to be unstable, but he met with plenty of other women with no one around, including sex assault victims. Nobody ever accused him of anything inappropriate, because he wasn't in appropriate. If this progressive guy is afraid to meet with women, maybe he should check his own behavior first. I don't get this either. Any person can accuse any other person of sexual harassment or being in an inappropriate relationship. Its not strictly just male bosses and their female colleagues. If I wasn't allowed to be alone in a room with men, I probably wouldn't even have my career right now. www.marketwatch.com/story/a-difficult-metoo-question-how-many-women-are-accused-of-sexual-harassment-2018-08-21Except it is by far the men being accused of sexual harassment. I do not have the same concern being in a closed door meeting that my president or later, the VP that I was friends with, have. It is very rare for a man to make an accusation, let alone a false accusation. When it comes to protecting myself and my career, that comes above anyone else that I work with. If I felt that being alone with a man put me at risk, I would not be alone with a man.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 11:54:19 GMT -5
Except you have no way of knowing my political leanings when I am interviewing. And if asked, I would claim that I am not political because it is really no one's business how I vote. Which is how I feel about my faith. It's between me and God. I agree completely. As long as someone could do the job they are hired for, I don't care their religion. I have an issue if they bring their religion to work or start expecting me to make concessions because of their religion. It has never happened, btw, but if I ran a pharmacy and a worker wouldn't fill a morning after pill (and I am pro-life!) they would be terminated. If I ran a grocery store and am employee wouldn't touch pork or anything else because of their religion, they would be terminated. If I ran a restaurant and an employee wouldn't serve alcohol because of their religion, they would be terminated. I don't care about anyone's religion until they bring it to work.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Aug 15, 2019 12:16:17 GMT -5
Which is how I feel about my faith. It's between me and God. I agree completely. As long as someone could do the job they are hired for, I don't care their religion. I have an issue if they bring their religion to work or start expecting me to make concessions because of their religion. It has never happened, btw, but if I ran a pharmacy and a worker wouldn't fill a morning after pill (and I am pro-life!) they would be terminated. If I ran a grocery store and am employee wouldn't touch pork or anything else because of their religion, they would be terminated. If I ran a restaurant and an employee wouldn't serve alcohol because of their religion, they would be terminated.I don't care about anyone's religion until they bring it to work. See this just makes sense to me. If you know that touching pork is against your religion, why would you apply for any job that involves pork? Same for all of these situations.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Aug 15, 2019 13:27:51 GMT -5
Well that's good. I'm not going to hire "the Republicans." Except you have no way of knowing my political leanings when I am interviewing. And if asked, I would claim that I am not political because it is really no one's business how I vote. you can get some indication by checking voter registration.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 15, 2019 13:42:48 GMT -5
I don't. I think it's unfortunate. My career would be no where near what it is if I couldn't meet with men alone. When I was an ADA, it was often my job to sit in on meetings with the DA and a woman who was known to be unstable, but he met with plenty of other women with no one around, including sex assault victims. Nobody ever accused him of anything inappropriate, because he wasn't in appropriate. If this progressive guy is afraid to meet with women, maybe he should check his own behavior first. Perhaps...but I knew him for several years and never saw or heard anything inappropriate from him (either personally or through the grape vine). We are now in the world where everyone is super-sensitive and easily offended. If I were a guy I do not know that I would want to be alone with a female, either. And that is unfortunate, but I am also not the one at risk of being accused of something. And in a world where the woman's word is gold, I do not think I would take the risk. I know we've all had these discussions before..we will never agree!lol Actually, I don't think we're in a world where a woman's word is gold. I know several women who made complaints about inappropriate males in the workplace, and all those women ended up leaving the company because word got out that they made a complaint and the men they complained about made life very hard for them.
The only situation where someone was successful in getting rid of a co-worker making inappropriate comments was a younger male who complained that an older guy was calling him 'gay' when the younger guy wasn't gay. Since the younger guy was the son of a high up executive, the older guy was terminated. That's the only incident I know of were the complainer's word was 'golden' and resulted in something happening to the person being inappropriate.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 13:46:16 GMT -5
Except you have no way of knowing my political leanings when I am interviewing. And if asked, I would claim that I am not political because it is really no one's business how I vote. you can get some indication by checking voter registration. Interesting. I did not know that was public knowledge. I went to my state's website www.pavoterservices.pa.gov to test it. I then googled to see if I could find my birthdate anywhere online and I couldn't. The closest I could get to was knowing that I am in my mid forties (pretty easy to guess by meeting me). So while yes, with all information an employer could search that, I can't imagine an employer asking a woman over the age of 40 for her date of birth...unless one wants an age discrimination law suit.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 13:48:00 GMT -5
Except you have no way of knowing my political leanings when I am interviewing. And if asked, I would claim that I am not political because it is really no one's business how I vote. Except that my religious beliefs require me to know how you vote, because I will not hire people who vote Republican. So, because of my religious exemption, you are required to divulge to me how you vote, and what your politics are. Look- the above is ridiculous. I don't care how you vote, how you pray, or who you sleep with. But the rule posited per the OP makes all of that fair game. It is rank BS. And I'm agnostic so I have no problem lying....lol I know you aren't a douche to not hire someone because of political affiliation. I actually just replied to Swamp and not the origingal post...unless I'm losing track of which thread I'm posting on!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 13:52:10 GMT -5
I agree completely. As long as someone could do the job they are hired for, I don't care their religion. I have an issue if they bring their religion to work or start expecting me to make concessions because of their religion. It has never happened, btw, but if I ran a pharmacy and a worker wouldn't fill a morning after pill (and I am pro-life!) they would be terminated. If I ran a grocery store and am employee wouldn't touch pork or anything else because of their religion, they would be terminated. If I ran a restaurant and an employee wouldn't serve alcohol because of their religion, they would be terminated.I don't care about anyone's religion until they bring it to work. See this just makes sense to me. If you know that touching pork is against your religion, why would you apply for any job that involves pork? Same for all of these situations. I don't disagree with you. And to be fair, I have only ever encountered any religion related once in my career and it wasn't even one of my employees. Last year at our physical inventory the auditor that came was from their NYC office, several hours away. The auditor told me they had to be out of there in enough time to get home before sunset. There was a major issue and this auditor actually made the other auditor go get a rental car so they could ride home separately. I found it most bizarre that an employee at such a low level (they don't send the experienced people to do audits!) had such requirements. The other auditor told me that he (or she, I'm honestly forgetting which sex!) had to be home because he (or she!) was an orthodox jew...wtf? If I was the audit partner he would be terminated. You have a job to do and you stay until it is done. Now, it worked in my favor because we were left with only one so some issues were glossed over..lol
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 15, 2019 14:41:34 GMT -5
I still find it absurd to think of a business having "religion".
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Aug 15, 2019 15:01:06 GMT -5
Might explain why all the residents of Hell rent movies from Blockbuster Video stores on Betamax tapes.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 15, 2019 15:08:24 GMT -5
Interesting. I did not know that was public knowledge. I went to my state's website www.pavoterservices.pa.gov to test it. I then googled to see if I could find my birthdate anywhere online and I couldn't. The closest I could get to was knowing that I am in my mid forties (pretty easy to guess by meeting me). So while yes, with all information an employer could search that, I can't imagine an employer asking a woman over the age of 40 for her date of birth...unless one wants an age discrimination law suit. It is absolutely public knowledge. You can go to your town/ city hall and get it. Both parties maintain voter lists. Your vote is private, but your voter registration is not. Again, in my state you can't get it online unless you have all of the information, which includes the date of birth (I only know because I just tried it and left out the date of birth). If you can go somewhere and physically get it I haven't a clue. And I'm guessing you would need to know which town the person lives in...not sure how common this is but in my area the towns are so small so you all use the same zip code, which then becomes your mailing address. So my mailing address does not marry up with the town I live in, yet is the address used by the post office. I have the same town in my mailing address as my prior house, even though it is 3 towns over. So it is public knowledge but it seems like a LOT of work to track down. Unless there is a central list somewhere and even then, how do you know with Jane Smith you are looking for??
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 15, 2019 15:24:54 GMT -5
I still find it absurd to think of a business having "religion". Citizens United says businesses are people. Can't wait for a Muslim business owner to exercise his or her "religious freedom". You can bet your bottom they'll be lawsuits because obviously the law doesn't mean those other religions get to discriminate. Just the good holy white Jesus following ones.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 15, 2019 16:11:36 GMT -5
It's sounding more and more like the Middle East. The same people pushing these laws probably crow about "those people" wanting sharia law here. 🙄
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 15, 2019 16:28:37 GMT -5
So if I'm hired by some evangelical a la Mike Pence, I can't talk to him or another man without another person around? That would certainly hurt my chances at advancement. One of the presidents at my prior job would never meet with a woman alone in a closed door meeting. Once rumors that one of the VPs was having an inappropriate relationship with a colleague started, he had a very frank discussion with the VP and told him to never, ever have a closed door meeting with a female alone as you are putting yourself at risk. And I want to note that the president was a liberal. He despised Trump, was fairly progressive (considering the position he had), etc. I'm not saying it is right but I can totally understand where he is coming from. If that would happen where I am at I would somehow get gay rumors started → no more closed door meetings for anyone!
Gander meet goose
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