djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 17, 2019 23:06:32 GMT -5
you are half right.
Norway does not have an especially innovative industrial base. but not every innovation comes from here. not even close.
if you look at patent information, a pattern emerges. Asia is inventing most of the stuff we buy and use. the US is 2nd, and Europe is 3rd.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Indicators
and it is really only the fact that we have so many people that we are so "inventive". per capita and per GDP we are not even close to 1st.
Asian patenting machine, is a camera. Go to a trade show, the Asians are taking pictures of a innovative product,
next year trade show, a complete line of the product they were taking pictures of the years before.
Asia is heterogenous, and I provided a link.
'nuff said.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2019 0:03:54 GMT -5
you are half right.
Norway does not have an especially innovative industrial base. but not every innovation comes from here. not even close.
if you look at patent information, a pattern emerges. Asia is inventing most of the stuff we buy and use. the US is 2nd, and Europe is 3rd.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Intellectual_Property_Indicators
and it is really only the fact that we have so many people that we are so "inventive". per capita and per GDP we are not even close to 1st.
Looks like we may have "imported" ourselves to 2nd place:
"Innovation by the Numbers In 2013, 51 percent of the 303,000 patents filed in the U.S. were of foreign origin, according to the USPTO. That's a decrease of one percentage point compared to 2012, but about equal to the percentage of foreign patents granted every year for the past decade. To get some perspective, in 1963, only 18 percent of patents originated from foreign sources.
The force of foreign innovation is not only felt in patent creation, it's also in the number of startups foreigners create in the U.S. The two are frequently related, as the company usually commercializes the patented idea or product.
Additionally, more than half of startups in Silicon Valley were founded by foreign-born entrepreneurs, according to Wadhwa and the Kauffman Foundation. (Kauffman's most recent index, released on Wednesday, also indicates that immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born business owners.)..."
www.inc.com/jeremy-quittner/foreign-patents-and-united-states-innovation.html
One might say that those calling for "making immigration white again" (even if they are not using those exact words) should be careful what they are wishing for...
thanks, NW. it is really obvious if you are out in industry what is going on. or, you can keep repeating the trope that we are the greatest most innovative country ever. it actually doesn't matter what you think or say. the facts are very clear to anyone who wants to see them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 18, 2019 11:13:00 GMT -5
What do you base this statement on? I heard this rumor a few decades ago, but I have never seen any proof or heard anyone speak intelligently about it. Also, why are people taking unpatented inventions to trade shows? You would think after having so many patents stolen from US inventors for years and years, we would be smart enough to patent something before we show it to the world. Ehat is wrong with us? It happens all the time, being patented in one country does not matter to the Asians. A couple of years ago one of the exhibitors, had to kick one of them out of his booth,, the Asian had climbed inside of a piece of equipment was taking pictures of the components inside.
Your specifics are dazzling.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2019 11:54:03 GMT -5
It happens all the time, being patented in one country does not matter to the Asians. A couple of years ago one of the exhibitors, had to kick one of them out of his booth,, the Asian had climbed inside of a piece of equipment was taking pictures of the components inside.
Your specifics are dazzling. this is the best sarcasm I have read in a long time.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 18, 2019 18:36:16 GMT -5
It is intentional.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Aug 18, 2019 18:42:48 GMT -5
I first heard the phrase, from a factory Rep, that manufactured, office equipment. His phrase was, Japanese Patenting machine,, the camera, When I started working the trade show, I watched the same work ethic. Only it was the Korean patenting machine, a short time after the show we now have almost identical equipment,, "designed" by the Koreans, made in China.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2019 18:53:44 GMT -5
I first heard the phrase, from a factory Rep, that manufactured, office equipment. His phrase was, Japanese Patenting machine,, the camera, When I started working the trade show, I watched the same work ethic. Only it was the Korean patenting machine, a short time after the show we now have almost identical equipment,, "designed" by the Koreans, made in China. right. and that is how innovation works. both here and abroad.
let me give a classic example that i am familiar with.
the VCR was INVENTED in the US. however, the format was much too large to be commercially tenable, because the imaging system required orthogonality, and the format was simply too big to be packaged commercially.
what the Japanese did was very simple: they tilted the playback and record head on an angle, and took advantage of the LENGTH of the tape rather than the width of the tape to make the format smaller, and more usable. that INNOVATION allowed the VHS (and Beta formats) to become commercially viable.
so, yeah, the "innovation" was the US's. but the commercialization was Japanese. in the end, the product that sold was Japanese BECAUSE of the latter innovation.
that is how it works.
this has been repeated often, by the way. computer technology (particularly the GUI) developed at PARC was used by Jobs and Wozniak of Apple Computer to develop the PC. their GUI was later used by Gates to develop Windows. etcetera, etcetera. innovations are borrowed and improved, which leads to greater innovation. for you to discount the innovations of Asians who improved on our innovations is pretty jingoistic, imo.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2019 19:13:12 GMT -5
I just thought of another one.
Huygens INVENTED the flyball governor. it was a feat of pure genius, which he is rarely credited for. instead, the credit goes typically to James Watt, who used the invention to build the first steam engine a century later.
without Huygens, there would be no steam engine. but since the steam engine changed everything, Watt gets the feather and Huygens gets the footnote.
there are literally endless examples of this.
(note to the board: I am a huge Huygens fan, so forgive the gushing)
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 18, 2019 19:33:56 GMT -5
I just thought of another one. Huygens INVENTED the flyball governor. it was a feat of pure genius, which he is rarely credited for. instead, the credit goes typically to James Watt, who used the invention to build the first steam engine a century later. without Huygens, there would be no steam engine. but since the steam engine changed everything, Watt gets the feather and Huygens gets the footnote. there are literally endless examples of this. (note to the board: I am a huge Huygens fan, so forgive the gushing) Dutch and Scottish respectively. And of course no American has ever build on their invention, right OC?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 21, 2019 18:20:58 GMT -5
I’m done having kids. But I’m all for having some kind of mandatory maternity leave, preferably through a government disability program rather than putting it on the employers. Putting the burden on employers will make it harder for women of childbearing age to get jobs.
I’m done with college. But I would totally support making community college free or nearly free. We do need to give people an opportunity to re-train. And having them go to community college means that more people will be exposed to the skilled trades, many of which are much more useful than sending a student who is not academically inclined to get a four year degree in whatever.
As for the Original post, letting lots of uneducated people in this country made sense 100 years ago, when we had lots of jobs that only required a strong back, and not much of a safety net. It makes a lot less sense in a country that has fewer unskilled jobs, a large population of poorly educated people, and a somewhat robust safety net that these uneducated newcomers will be using when they inevitably start families.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 21, 2019 19:18:32 GMT -5
if we stop importing temporary work, we will indeed need unskilled labor for hospitality and agriculture.
either that, or we will have to pay vastly more money for those things.
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