weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 4, 2019 11:57:25 GMT -5
Plus,they don't have outrageous student loans to repay, don't need to hire an army of office workers to deal with insurance claims, and don't need to have exorbitant malpractice insurance. They probably end up making more.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2019 12:15:47 GMT -5
Plus,they don't have outrageous student loans to repay, don't need to hire an army of office workers to deal with insurance claims, and don't need to have exorbitant malpractice insurance. They probably end up making more. precisely. so they can actually KEEP the money they make, rather than paying it back to Shittybank or some other entity that owns them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 4, 2019 12:17:11 GMT -5
Plus,they don't have outrageous student loans to repay, don't need to hire an army of office workers to deal with insurance claims, and don't need to have exorbitant malpractice insurance. They probably end up making more. Sounds like you want to put a whole bunch of people out of work.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 4, 2019 12:21:40 GMT -5
Plus,they don't have outrageous student loans to repay, don't need to hire an army of office workers to deal with insurance claims, and don't need to have exorbitant malpractice insurance. They probably end up making more. Sounds like you want to put a whole bunch of people out of work. speaking personally, I do. not a fan of loan sharks and insurers. at all.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 4, 2019 12:30:29 GMT -5
Plus,they don't have outrageous student loans to repay, don't need to hire an army of office workers to deal with insurance claims, and don't need to have exorbitant malpractice insurance. They probably end up making more. Sounds like you want to put a whole bunch of people out of work. My SIL had a job looking for any reason to deny, deny, deny desperately sick people their insurance claims, after they have been paying into it for most of their lives. People like that SHOULD have their jobs made obsolete.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Aug 4, 2019 13:02:53 GMT -5
Would you please share with us 3 “useless regulations” and why they are useless, instead of just buzzwording ‘regulation’ as if they are all useless. I keep thinking that regulations come from the will of We The People , through our elected representatives, and then into regulatory reform as mandated therein. Please share. and maybe the will of other people they needed to go....how many did trump cut so far wasn't the mantra 1 in 2 out. If they were put in there by the last administration they probably should go. That administration didn't do much right Thanks for supplying an answer to my query.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 4, 2019 23:53:33 GMT -5
Sounds like you want to put a whole bunch of people out of work. My SIL had a job looking for any reason to deny, deny, deny desperately sick people their insurance claims, after they have been paying into it for most of their lives. People like that SHOULD have their jobs made obsolete. Hopefully we could find something more helpful for them to do.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 7:00:40 GMT -5
I finally took the time to read the links. From what I read this should be a standard practice to any program see if there is waste and adjust the eligibility requirements. All the opponents hear is oh starving children. What I read is that many due to a higher financial status shouldn't qualify. i think this is a true statement. Look around how many times do you go into a store see men and women pay with snap card go out and get into a 15 or 20k car? I see it all the time. These people will buy something they could not afford if they used the money they have to support their families. I also could go on about how the school lunch programs need to get revamped. I have seen where there is left over food supplies going to school workers by the case load. Isn't the idea to help get food to the needy and help get people off assistance? This is one of those ways. When i lived in NY i rented an apartment to a woman who was on govt assistance with two kids. A very nice apartment with washer dryer and a dishwasher included for 450 a month could have easily gotten 800. When she finally got a job making 400 per week the assistance started to go down boy did she whine on how unfair the system is. i sat down with her she shown me the amount of assistance and her take home pay. She was still coming out ahead 600 per month than by assistance alone. Once i shown this to her she replied yes but now I have to work for it. fast forward 5 years the woman went to work in a factory worked her way to a decent paying position. She had a nice car and was looking to buy her first house. She admitted she should never be where she is today if the free money kept pouring in.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 10:44:58 GMT -5
I finally took the time to read the links. From what I read this should be a standard practice to any program see if there is waste and adjust the eligibility requirements. All the opponents hear is oh starving children. What I read is that many due to a higher financial status shouldn't qualify. i think this is a true statement. Look around how many times do you go into a store see men and women pay with snap card go out and get into a 15 or 20k car? I see it all the time. These people will buy something they could not afford if they used the money they have to support their families. I also could go on about how the school lunch programs need to get revamped. I have seen where there is left over food supplies going to school workers by the case load. Isn't the idea to help get food to the needy and help get people off assistance? This is one of those ways. When i lived in NY i rented an apartment to a woman who was on govt assistance with two kids. A very nice apartment with washer dryer and a dishwasher included for 450 a month could have easily gotten 800. When she finally got a job making 400 per week the assistance started to go down boy did she whine on how unfair the system is. i sat down with her she shown me the amount of assistance and her take home pay. She was still coming out ahead 600 per month than by assistance alone. Once i shown this to her she replied yes but now I have to work for it. fast forward 5 years the woman went to work in a factory worked her way to a decent paying position. She had a nice car and was looking to buy her first house. She admitted she should never be where she is today if the free money kept pouring in. what do cars have to do with income?
nothing, in my experience.
I know millionaires that drive around in junkers and poor people that own new vehicles.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 5, 2019 11:26:06 GMT -5
This thread needs a little humor.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 5, 2019 11:45:54 GMT -5
I finally took the time to read the links. From what I read this should be a standard practice to any program see if there is waste and adjust the eligibility requirements. All the opponents hear is oh starving children. What I read is that many due to a higher financial status shouldn't qualify. i think this is a true statement. Look around how many times do you go into a store see men and women pay with snap card go out and get into a 15 or 20k car? I see it all the time. These people will buy something they could not afford if they used the money they have to support their families. I also could go on about how the school lunch programs need to get revamped. I have seen where there is left over food supplies going to school workers by the case load. Isn't the idea to help get food to the needy and help get people off assistance? This is one of those ways. When i lived in NY i rented an apartment to a woman who was on govt assistance with two kids. A very nice apartment with washer dryer and a dishwasher included for 450 a month could have easily gotten 800. When she finally got a job making 400 per week the assistance started to go down boy did she whine on how unfair the system is. i sat down with her she shown me the amount of assistance and her take home pay. She was still coming out ahead 600 per month than by assistance alone. Once i shown this to her she replied yes but now I have to work for it. fast forward 5 years the woman went to work in a factory worked her way to a decent paying position. She had a nice car and was looking to buy her first house. She admitted she should never be where she is today if the free money kept pouring in. I guess in your Bizarro World, it's just not possible for a family to own a car, and then fall on hard times. Not possible to lose your job, get sick or laid off.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 12:18:33 GMT -5
I finally took the time to read the links. From what I read this should be a standard practice to any program see if there is waste and adjust the eligibility requirements. All the opponents hear is oh starving children. What I read is that many due to a higher financial status shouldn't qualify. i think this is a true statement. Look around how many times do you go into a store see men and women pay with snap card go out and get into a 15 or 20k car? I see it all the time. These people will buy something they could not afford if they used the money they have to support their families. I also could go on about how the school lunch programs need to get revamped. I have seen where there is left over food supplies going to school workers by the case load. Isn't the idea to help get food to the needy and help get people off assistance? This is one of those ways. When i lived in NY i rented an apartment to a woman who was on govt assistance with two kids. A very nice apartment with washer dryer and a dishwasher included for 450 a month could have easily gotten 800. When she finally got a job making 400 per week the assistance started to go down boy did she whine on how unfair the system is. i sat down with her she shown me the amount of assistance and her take home pay. She was still coming out ahead 600 per month than by assistance alone. Once i shown this to her she replied yes but now I have to work for it. fast forward 5 years the woman went to work in a factory worked her way to a decent paying position. She had a nice car and was looking to buy her first house. She admitted she should never be where she is today if the free money kept pouring in. I guess in your Bizarro World, it's just not possible for a family to own a car, and then fall on hard times. Not possible to lose your job, get sick or laid off. Bizarro world so easy to attack. Sure that can happen but if people would open their eyes or get their heads out of their ass they would see alot more of this. Besides before if someone had any fiscal responsibility they would get rid of their car and get a cheaper one before trying to recieve any govt assistance
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 12:23:58 GMT -5
I finally took the time to read the links. From what I read this should be a standard practice to any program see if there is waste and adjust the eligibility requirements. All the opponents hear is oh starving children. What I read is that many due to a higher financial status shouldn't qualify. i think this is a true statement. Look around how many times do you go into a store see men and women pay with snap card go out and get into a 15 or 20k car? I see it all the time. These people will buy something they could not afford if they used the money they have to support their families. I also could go on about how the school lunch programs need to get revamped. I have seen where there is left over food supplies going to school workers by the case load. Isn't the idea to help get food to the needy and help get people off assistance? This is one of those ways. When i lived in NY i rented an apartment to a woman who was on govt assistance with two kids. A very nice apartment with washer dryer and a dishwasher included for 450 a month could have easily gotten 800. When she finally got a job making 400 per week the assistance started to go down boy did she whine on how unfair the system is. i sat down with her she shown me the amount of assistance and her take home pay. She was still coming out ahead 600 per month than by assistance alone. Once i shown this to her she replied yes but now I have to work for it. fast forward 5 years the woman went to work in a factory worked her way to a decent paying position. She had a nice car and was looking to buy her first house. She admitted she should never be where she is today if the free money kept pouring in. what do cars have to do with income?
nothing, in my experience.
I know millionaires that drive around in junkers and poor people that own new vehicles.
That is the whole point. if you need money you should get rid of the car before accepting assistance.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 13:53:44 GMT -5
what do cars have to do with income?
nothing, in my experience.
I know millionaires that drive around in junkers and poor people that own new vehicles.
That is the whole point. if you need money you should get rid of the car before accepting assistance. and not be able to drive 4 hours to get to work?
that sounds like a great idea.
how about this: if people qualify for assistance, they should get it. it is not up to you to determine whether they should have a car or not. nor is it up to you whether they should eat steak or not.
it is up to them.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 14:36:39 GMT -5
That is the whole point. if you need money you should get rid of the car before accepting assistance. and not be able to drive 4 hours to get to work?
that sounds like a great idea.
how about this: if people qualify for assistance, they should get it. it is not up to you to determine whether they should have a car or not. nor is it up to you whether they should eat steak or not.
it is up to them.
let me explain then get rid of the car for a cheaper car do something to help your own situation out before asking for assistance no one said you don't get assistance if you have a car, but for some reason alot of posters here think that if you cry for assistance you get it without doing anything to help yourself first. no one said anything about the type of food they buy.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Aug 5, 2019 14:49:43 GMT -5
what do cars have to do with income?
nothing, in my experience.
I know millionaires that drive around in junkers and poor people that own new vehicles.
That is the whole point. if you need money you should get rid of the car before accepting assistance. So if you don't have a car and your neighbor offers to loan you their new car to get groceries you should refuse since some judgmental person who has no information about your situation might draw an incorrect conclusion.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 5, 2019 14:51:34 GMT -5
although not totally out of the realm...i was referring to higher education that is my bad for not putting it in. I also wondered about the elderly who have trouble getting by with higher taxes that support their local school system. This elderly person pays higher taxes to support the local school system. Since my kids and grandkids benefitted from good public schools, I don’t mind. But then, I’m not a self centered prick This slightly younger person than GG (but not by much) pays higher taxes to support the local school system as well. And I don't mind even though my kids went to private schools (mostly abroad) and my grandkids live in Europe. So no direct family benefit for me. However, and I have said this multiple times in other threads, I do prefer my pharmacist/nurses/doctors/etc to be able to read. Just like it is a good thing that my mailman/mechanic/grocery clerk/etc. can read. Society as a whole → which all of us are part of - benefit from a well-educated labor force and that education should not be dependent on whether your parents are rich or poor. Have good spending habits or bad ones. It should be dependent on a person's inate abilities and drive to do something good/well.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 14:58:35 GMT -5
That is the whole point. if you need money you should get rid of the car before accepting assistance. So if you don't have a car and your neighbor offers to loan you their new car to get groceries you should refuse since some judgmental person who has no information about your situation might draw an incorrect conclusion. I was waiting for this. I would agree that could happen and probable does but out of the 15 or so i see on any shopping trip maybe and just maybe 1 out of that is borrowing the neighbors or family member car. I really doesn't matter no need to be judgmental. The whole point is doing for ones best before enlisting help from the govt.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 14:58:49 GMT -5
and not be able to drive 4 hours to get to work?
that sounds like a great idea.
how about this: if people qualify for assistance, they should get it. it is not up to you to determine whether they should have a car or not. nor is it up to you whether they should eat steak or not.
it is up to them.
let me explain then I didn't need an explanation.
I didn't ask for one.
I didn't even ask you a question, ed.
I stated my point of view. you stated yours. I am happy that we don't agree. I don't need your agreement.
we're good.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 5, 2019 14:59:47 GMT -5
I finally took the time to read the links. From what I read this should be a standard practice to any program see if there is waste and adjust the eligibility requirements. All the opponents hear is oh starving children. What I read is that many due to a higher financial status shouldn't qualify. i think this is a true statement. Look around how many times do you go into a store see men and women pay with snap card go out and get into a 15 or 20k car? I see it all the time. These people will buy something they could not afford if they used the money they have to support their families. I also could go on about how the school lunch programs need to get revamped. I have seen where there is left over food supplies going to school workers by the case load. Where in the H*** do you live? I can't remember ever seeing anyhing like this. And if I did see a person who paid with a snap card get into a "15 or 20k" car (and I would know enough about cars to even realize that) , I would not automatically assume that is that person's car, they may have borrowed the car from a friend or family member to get their groceries home
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:02:21 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:06:48 GMT -5
So if you don't have a car and your neighbor offers to loan you their new car to get groceries you should refuse since some judgmental person who has no information about your situation might draw an incorrect conclusion. I was waiting for this. I would agree that could happen and probable does but out of the 15 or so i see on any shopping trip maybe and just maybe 1 out of that is borrowing the neighbors or family member car. I really doesn't matter no need to be judgmental. The whole point is doing for ones best before enlisting help from the govt. here's another argument:
let's say that i quit my job and eventually qualified for federal assistance. i have paid more in taxes than most people would ever earn. why should i have to sell my car? and who are you, or anyone else to even suggest that i should? i paid into the system. i should be able to use it, if i qualify.
but all of this misses the point of the system entirely, which is why i hate these arguments. why are we so judgmental? what business is it of ours? we should endow our government with the ability to determine eligibility, and leave it at that. but instead, we get all bent out of shape about what car people drive. it is a waste of thinking and feeling that is better spent on more important matters.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:15:05 GMT -5
you quoted me I never said it
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 5, 2019 15:18:00 GMT -5
So if you don't have a car and your neighbor offers to loan you their new car to get groceries you should refuse since some judgmental person who has no information about your situation might draw an incorrect conclusion. I was waiting for this. I would agree that could happen and probable does but out of the 15 or so i see on any shopping trip maybe and just maybe 1 out of that is borrowing the neighbors or family member car. I really doesn't matter no need to be judgmental. The whole point is doing for ones best before enlisting help from the govt. What kind of grocery shopping trip are you making that you can actually witness the transactions of 15 other people closely enough to see how they are paying? And then all 15 are paying with some kind of assistance? And you somehow also see them all get in their cars? And all their cars are expensive?
Do you have any idea how blatantly ridiculous your post is? So, I honestly want to know - do you just so strongly believe in your soul that this happens so much that you have convinced yourself that is what is occurring all round you when you shop? Or do you know you are just making things up?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:18:32 GMT -5
you quoted me I never said it no. i didn't "quote you". i use quotation marks when i quote people.
i know YOU didn't say it, ed. i specifically said that you did NOT say it (see bold above). but people say it, and i think the reasoning is similar to yours. that is an ANALOGY, not an accusation.
so, you are saying that if a person can afford a car, then they should not need federal assistance. or is that NOT what you are saying?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:19:30 GMT -5
This elderly person pays higher taxes to support the local school system. Since my kids and grandkids benefitted from good public schools, I don’t mind. But then, I’m not a self centered prick This slightly younger person than GG (but not by much) pays higher taxes to support the local school system as well. And I don't mind even though my kids went to private schools (mostly abroad) and my grandkids live in Europe. So no direct family benefit for me. However, and I have said this multiple times in other threads, I do prefer my pharmasist/nurses/doctors/etc to be able to read. Just like it is a good thing that my mailman/mechanic/grocery clerk/etc. can read. Society as a whole → which all of us are part of - benefit from a well-educated labor force and that education should not be dependent on whether your parents are rich or poor. Have good spending habits or bad ones. It should be dependent on a person's inate abilities and drive to do something good/well. the point is senior citizens who cannot afford to pay the taxes. I personally don't have a soft spot for them but it does happen especially where i lived in NY
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Aug 5, 2019 15:19:38 GMT -5
you quoted me I never said it And if he had claimed that you said it you would have a valid complaint. Your contention was that " no one said anything about the type of food they buy." He disagreed, and stated it was a common argument. Why are you taking it personally?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:21:20 GMT -5
I was waiting for this. I would agree that could happen and probable does but out of the 15 or so i see on any shopping trip maybe and just maybe 1 out of that is borrowing the neighbors or family member car. I really doesn't matter no need to be judgmental. The whole point is doing for ones best before enlisting help from the govt. What kind of grocery shopping trip are you making that you can actually witness the transactions of 15 other people closely enough to see how they are paying? And then all 15 are paying with some kind of assistance? And you somehow also see them all get in their cars? And all their cars are expensive?
Do you have any idea how blatantly ridiculous your post is? So, I honestly want to know - do you just so strongly believe in your soul that this happens so much that you have convinced yourself that is what is occurring all round you when you shop? Or do you know you are just making things up?
it's prejudicial, imo.
what if their grandma's left them a car in their estate? do we REALLY expect them to give up their car for food? how will they get to work?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Aug 5, 2019 15:21:24 GMT -5
I was waiting for this. I would agree that could happen and probable does but out of the 15 or so i see on any shopping trip maybe and just maybe 1 out of that is borrowing the neighbors or family member car. I really doesn't matter no need to be judgmental. The whole point is doing for ones best before enlisting help from the govt. What kind of grocery shopping trip are you making that you can actually witness the transactions of 15 other people closely enough to see how they are paying? And then all 15 are paying with some kind of assistance? And you somehow also see them all get in their cars? And all their cars are expensive?
Do you have any idea how blatantly ridiculous your post is? So, I honestly want to know - do you just so strongly believe in your soul that this happens so much that you have convinced yourself that is what is occurring all round you when you shop? Or do you know you are just making things up?
actually its not hard at all I see it all the time of course when we go shopping its an all day event with several stores
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 5, 2019 15:22:37 GMT -5
This slightly younger person than GG (but not by much) pays higher taxes to support the local school system as well. And I don't mind even though my kids went to private schools (mostly abroad) and my grandkids live in Europe. So no direct family benefit for me. However, and I have said this multiple times in other threads, I do prefer my pharmasist/nurses/doctors/etc to be able to read. Just like it is a good thing that my mailman/mechanic/grocery clerk/etc. can read. Society as a whole → which all of us are part of - benefit from a well-educated labor force and that education should not be dependent on whether your parents are rich or poor. Have good spending habits or bad ones. It should be dependent on a person's inate abilities and drive to do something good/well. the point is senior citizens who cannot afford to pay the taxes. I personally don't have a soft spot for them but it does happen especially where i lived in NY to play the devil's advocate, why don't they move to a low COL/zero income tax state?
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