Saving Is A Really Bad Idea

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Working hard and saving are really horrible ideas in a fake money economy. They can print it faster than you can earn it or save it. Interest rates are zero on savings, so you're losing fiat credits every day that they are sitting still doing nothing. What you should really be doing is leveraging everything you can to acquire assets and building multiple streams of passive income. You should be snowballing your income, not your debt. And once you get one steady reliable stream of income coming in, you then leverage that to acquire another one. At first, stick to one area and really hone in on it. For me, this was real estate. Then, I switched to a more active income source-- consulting work-- then, I leveraged everything to shift to information marketing-- I teach people to do the thing I did to build the consulting business and I do it via online courses. The next thing I did was shift to affiliate marketing-- I figured since I built a course and ran ads and people bought it-- why not just do the thing I did to sell my course to sell other courses and other things via the internet. It doesn't matter what you do so long as it makes you more money and doesn't cost you more time-- time is the real commodity. You can't get that back. 

YES, we all need EARNED income from work we do for a period of time, but it's ridiculous to think that it'll ever be enough, or that getting periodic raises, moving jobs for more money, or getting a second job or a 'side hustle' is going to do the trick. And it's even sillier to think you'll ever "save" your way to wealth in a fiat money economy with 0% interest rates. You need to earn all you can- yes. But don't save. BORROW. You need to earn all you can, borrow all you can- and use it to invest. I like real estate-- highly leveragable asset. Very easy to get started in. And while I make more income doing the consulting (active work) and online marketing which is starting to eclipse my earned income-- the underlying value (equity) of real estate just can't be beat. Real estate you get income statement rich-- AND balance sheet statement rich. And you gotta do both.

[weltschmerz]

What are you going to do with all your wealth, Paul? Sit on it like Scrooge McDuck, or be like this guy?

A carpenter saved his whole life to fund college scholarships and helped 33 strangers go to school for free

Since his death in 2005, that money has been doled out to 33 Iowans.

"Dale's Kids" met for dinner on Saturday to catch up on each other's lives and to honor the man who made their dreams possible. They sat around the old carpenter's lunch pail to share updates on their lives. Many are now doctors, teachers and therapists.


www.cnn.com/2019/07/19/us/carpenter-funds-33-college-scholarships-trnd/index.html

Yes, I know. Stupid question. Of course you'll use it to buy toys like expensive sports cars for yourself.

[sesfw]

Welts ……… you don't know that.

There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to have fun with.  There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to help others.  There is nothing wrong with doing both.

[weltschmerz]

Jul 19, 2019 16:29:57 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Welts ……… you don't know that.

There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to have fun with.  There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to help others.  There is nothing wrong with doing both.

No, I don't. That's why I asked him....I was curious if he's going to put some poor kids through college.

[MN-Investor]

Paul is right in that saving isn't enough. You need to invest.

But the one thing I have learned in talking with other investors is that there are many avenues to wealth, and what works for one person may be the exact wrong approach for another person. Paul's approach appears to work for him, but I know that it never would have worked for me.

What has worked for me?

My husband and I were both employees making decent salaries. That gave us disposable income we could use for buying stock. We initially started by buying stock in our own companies through their employee stock purchase programs. We got married in 1976, and there were a lot fewer retirement savings options back then, so we bought stock in a taxable account. When our employers began 401(k) plans, we maxed out our savings in them, investing in both our own employer's stock and broad based investment funds.

Our basic philosophy was that we were investing in American businesses by investing in the stock market. We knew that whoever was in power - whether Republicans or Democrats - they were going to make sure that American business succeeded, so it seemed like a safe bet. And, sure enough, it has paid off over time.

A couple of other comments -

My husband and I would never borrow in order to invest. I can see borrowing in order to build my own business, but it did seem that the businesses which struggled the most during the Great Recession were those with the largest debts.

My DH and I were unusual in the amount we invested in our stock of the companies we worked for. I would never advise anyone to follow our example. At the end of 2014, 45% of our portfolio value was in the stock of my DH's employer and 15% was in the stock of my former employer. However, we did agree that if either stock went to zero, we still had enough for retirement. By the time my sweetie retired in mid-2016, he had sold all of his company stock and moved the money to a bond fund.

So read Paul's advice as one way to achieve wealth, but realize that employees are fully capable of investing in the stock market and achieving wealth that way too. Figure out what works for YOU.

[mroped]

Jul 19, 2019 16:29:57 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Welts ……… you don't know that.

There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to have fun with.  There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to help others.  There is nothing wrong with doing both.

You highlighted yourself “EARN” which means to almost everyone obtaining those funds through honest work, “with the sweat of your brow”.
Committing fraud, embezzlement, stealing or any other form of illegally obtaining those funds is not earning. In such case one should enjoy the inside of a 4x8 cell.
Many of our politicians(including the big boss) should enjoy the latter! 

[Tiny]

Unfortunately, you have to start out saving money - because you generally need a goodly sum to get started building wealth - ie seed money.
OK, if you can find someone to give you the money with no strings attached (no interest/no repayment) that's a different story.
Or, if you have someone who will vouch for you to the people with the money to give - that's yet another story.
Or, if you are part of the "in crowd" and someone in the "in crowd" owes your parent(s) OR wants to court their favor - they might give you the money/or access to money, that's a third story.

I don't think real estate is that great a thing these days. It's not in the 4 areas I watch. I know it's location, location, location.

And as an aside: Try buying a house where you need a mortgage, with no money down and no apparent savings... even if you have a steady job - even if you can find a seller who will "give you" the equity in the house to use as down payment...   OK, maybe a relative would do you a nice and offer equity as a down payment... but the bank making the loan is still gonna want proof you've got enough $$ to afford the house.  And there probably won't be a real estate agent involved in this. So you'll be doing a lot of the "busy work" on your own or with direction from the loan officer/your lawyer.      

I bottom feed real estate in a couple of areas - and I'm seeing a lot of desperate newbie rehabbers trying to sell crappy houses at top dollar that have been given a slap of grey paint and new fake wood laminate flooring and stainless steel appliances hoping to re-direct buyers eyes from the curling roof shingles and the rotting garage and the gutters that were tacked back on with twist ties.     The problem is they paid top dollar for the crappy house to start with and didn't actually 'repair it' before trying to sell it.   

[tskeeter]

Jul 20, 2019 17:00:22 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Unfortunately, you have to start out saving money - because you generally need a goodly sum to get started building wealth - ie seed money.
OK, if you can find someone to give you the money with no strings attached (no interest/no repayment) that's a different story.
Or, if you have someone who will vouch for you to the people with the money to give - that's yet another story.
Or, if you are part of the "in crowd" and someone in the "in crowd" owes your parent(s) OR wants to court their favor - they might give you the money/or access to money, that's a third story.

I don't think real estate is that great a thing these days. It's not in the 4 areas I watch. I know it's location, location, location.

And as an aside: Try buying a house where you need a mortgage, with no money down and no apparent savings... even if you have a steady job - even if you can find a seller who will "give you" the equity in the house to use as down payment...   OK, maybe a relative would do you a nice and offer equity as a down payment... but the bank making the loan is still gonna want proof you've got enough $$ to afford the house.  And there probably won't be a real estate agent involved in this. So you'll be doing a lot of the "busy work" on your own or with direction from the loan officer/your lawyer.      

I bottom feed real estate in a couple of areas - and I'm seeing a lot of desperate newbie rehabbers trying to sell crappy houses at top dollar that have been given a slap of grey paint and new fake wood laminate flooring and stainless steel appliances hoping to re-direct buyers eyes from the curling roof shingles and the rotting garage and the gutters that were tacked back on with twist ties.     The problem is they paid top dollar for the crappy house to start with and didn't actually 'repair it' before trying to sell it.   

I’d argue that a 401K account or an IRA allows a individual to become an investor without seed money.  And that self directed IRA’s can provide a great deal of flexibility in your investment choices.  You might start to build a nest egg by investing in stocks or mutual funds, then graduate to things such as private REITs, Partnerships, S Corps, or some other business activity.

Most self made millionaires didn’t start with hundreds of millions of venture capital seed money, or the like.  They self funded, or family funded from very modest beginnings.

[Tiny]

Jul 21, 2019 0:52:14 GMT -5 tskeeter said:

Jul 20, 2019 17:00:22 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Unfortunately, you have to start out saving money - because you generally need a goodly sum to get started building wealth - ie seed money.
OK, if you can find someone to give you the money with no strings attached (no interest/no repayment) that's a different story.
Or, if you have someone who will vouch for you to the people with the money to give - that's yet another story.
Or, if you are part of the "in crowd" and someone in the "in crowd" owes your parent(s) OR wants to court their favor - they might give you the money/or access to money, that's a third story.

I don't think real estate is that great a thing these days. It's not in the 4 areas I watch. I know it's location, location, location.

And as an aside: Try buying a house where you need a mortgage, with no money down and no apparent savings... even if you have a steady job - even if you can find a seller who will "give you" the equity in the house to use as down payment...   OK, maybe a relative would do you a nice and offer equity as a down payment... but the bank making the loan is still gonna want proof you've got enough $$ to afford the house.  And there probably won't be a real estate agent involved in this. So you'll be doing a lot of the "busy work" on your own or with direction from the loan officer/your lawyer.      

I bottom feed real estate in a couple of areas - and I'm seeing a lot of desperate newbie rehabbers trying to sell crappy houses at top dollar that have been given a slap of grey paint and new fake wood laminate flooring and stainless steel appliances hoping to re-direct buyers eyes from the curling roof shingles and the rotting garage and the gutters that were tacked back on with twist ties.     The problem is they paid top dollar for the crappy house to start with and didn't actually 'repair it' before trying to sell it.   

I’d argue that a 401K account or an IRA allows a individual to become an investor without seed money.  And that self directed IRA’s can provide a great deal of flexibility in your investment choices.  You might start to build a nest egg by investing in stocks or mutual funds, then graduate to things such as private REITs, Partnerships, S Corps, or some other business activity.

Most self made millionaires didn’t start with hundreds of millions of venture capital seed money, or the like.  They self funded, or family funded from very modest beginnings.

I totally agree with you about being able to invest in retirement type accounts being a way to create wealth.  Or just opening a plain old "after tax" account with Fidelity/Vanguard/etc.     But, the last time I looked if you didn't have access to an employer sponsored retirement plan (401K or any of other ones) you needed some money to start your own Roth/IRA or after tax account.  Often times there's a minimum initial purchase amount (1K or 2500) AND there are minimum amounts to buy more shares ($250 for example).     

I think this is why I (and probably most of the people on this board) scuff at people who have 100K or more incomes and have NO savings/investment.   How can you be earning that much and NOT be saving/investing something??     

The seed money I'm talking about is between 1K and 10K...  you have to start out with some $$ to invest.  And if people are suspose to start building wealth in their 20's when they are just starting out - they need to scrap up some money so they can start to build wealth.     And you have to KNOW that once you have some $$  that you can and should invest.   Only having a savings account or CDs won't get you the returns you need to build wealth - but you might start out with those as you are building up your 'seed money' to invest.  

My mom gave me $100 when got my first job.  We went to the bank together and a savings account in my name was opened with that $100.00. My mom drilled it into my head that that $100 was NOT mine to spend.  It had to stay in the account. That $100 allowed me to cash my paycheck FOR FREE.     I didn't realize until much later that many of my friends (or coworkers) used a Currency Exchange to cash their paychecks and paid a fee to do so.  They didn't have the $100 necessary to get a bank account or maybe they didn't know to 'save up' some money to eventually get the bank account.    FWIW:   my net paycheck back then was between $20 and $30 a week.  Depending on what you had to use your paycheck for - it might be awhile before you had that $100 to "lock up" in a bank account.    

You can fast forward this example to today... I know most banks have 'minimum' balances for Free checking - I bank at three different banks (I know. but my  life is complicated).   One bank requires a minimum of $1500 (and a payroll direct deposit) for free services.  Another requires $1750 and a payroll direct deposit for free services.  The third one (a community S&L)  requires a $500 minimum and 2 payroll direct deposits and use of their bill pay  per month for free services.   


That's where I'm going with the "seed money"... you have to have some amount of cash available to start building wealthy - when you are just starting out.   Not everyone magically has an entry level job that pays enough to cover ALL the things you want to do/have and all the base money you need to have access to the type of accounts that build wealth. 

You have to budget  and you have to allocate some money to a "I'm NOT ever gonna spend this money"  (figure out how to live beneath your means or pay yourself first) so I can use it to build wealth.   Unless of course someone gives you that 'seed money' so you can have free banking (avoid fees) and "seed money" so you can open an account (or IRA/Roth) with Fidelity/Vanguard/etc.    

Again, the seed money I'm talking about is small - and odds are your first paycheck isn't going to be enough to cover all your 'bills' AND provide that seed money in full OR your employer isn't going to offer a retirement account that you can contribute to (so you don't need seed money).   

[MN-Investor]

A bit off topic, but relating to seed money...

I have three nieces who have recently graduated from college. My DH was a very vocal advocate of investing for retirement. With that in mind, I plan on offering these nieces seed money for retirement. My basic plan is to have them open a Roth IRA at Fidelity (where my accounts are). I will fund each one with $2,500 in 2019 and $2,500 in 2020. In addition, I will contribute up to $2,500 more, matching dollar for dollar what they contribute to their own retirement plans (or this Roth IRA). I will insist that they invest in Fidelity's own low expense ratio all market or S&P index fund with returns reinvested. Also, they are not to use money in the Roth for any pre-retirement expenses.

Yes, I know that once the money is in the Roth account I have no control. But you do what you can do.

I haven't talked to any of the girls yet, but I plan on taking them out to supper and discussing it with them then. I also plan on giving each on a copy of Mike Piper's Investing Made Simple: Index Fund Investing and ETF Investing Explained in 100 Pages or Less. I highly recommend it.

[tallguy]

Jul 21, 2019 12:36:08 GMT -5 MN-Investor said:

A bit off topic, but relating to seed money...

I have three nieces who have recently graduated from college. My DH was a very vocal advocate of investing for retirement. With that in mind, I plan on offering these nieces seed money for retirement. My basic plan is to have them open a Roth IRA at Fidelity (where my accounts are). I will fund each one with $2,500 in 2019 and $2,500 in 2020. In addition, I will contribute up to $2,500 more, matching dollar for dollar what they contribute to their own retirement plans (or this Roth IRA). I will insist that they invest in Fidelity's own low expense ratio all market or S&P index fund with returns reinvested. Also, they are not to use money in the Roth for any pre-retirement expenses.

Yes, I know that once the money is in the Roth account I have no control. But you do what you can do.

I haven't talked to any of the girls yet, but I plan on taking them out to supper and discussing it with them then. I also plan on giving each on a copy of Mike Piper's Investing Made Simple: Index Fund Investing and ETF Investing Explained in 100 Pages or Less. I highly recommend it.

I did a similar thing for my son.  Several years ago, he started a part-time job late in the year.  I told him I would fund a Roth for him with everything he made until the end of the year.  The next year, I matched what he contributed, so another $2700.  I didn't continue that because I semi-retired in January of the next year, but he knows he is required to contribute at least $2000 to his Roth every year.  I wanted to get him off to a good start, and to make sure the idea of saving and investing was implanted.  It works.

[MN-Investor]

Another reason for providing seed money for my nieces is that I remember my initial career years. I remember having money in the bank and how loathe I was to putting any of it at risk. The very idea of buying stock was just absurd. I worked hard for that money!

Fortunately, my husband was interested in investing. The employee stock purchase plan was a perfect way to start - money was taken out of each paycheck, then, at the end of two years, you could buy stock at 85% of the lesser of today's price or the price two years ago. How could you lose?

My nieces work at small businesses, so I'm not sure how robust their retirement plans are. My contributing is a way to give them a start on investing without having to initially risk a lot of their own money.

[countrygirl2]

Now many businesses automatically put something like 3% in your 401k, that's a good deal.

[phil5185]

For wealth building, the key factor is to invest (don't save) at about 11%/yr.  It doesn't matter whether you use Roth, 401k, IRA, or a brokerage account. Invest at every chance. Eg, don't tie up your money in a car, borrow for the car and leave your money invested at 11%. Same with a house, borrow as much as possible for a long as possible - you don't want to tie up your money by prepaying 3 or 4% mortgages when you could be using that money to earn 11%.

Examples. 

New car. Pay zero down, leave your own money invested at 11%/yr.  A $25k car loan will cost about $27k over 5 yrs. And the $25k left in an 11% investment will grow to about $45k in 5 years. Do that with every car for 30 years, it will add into 6 figures.

House. When your home equity builds up $50k or so refi and remove the $50k. Put the $50k (seed money) in your 11%/yr fund, it should grow to about $1,100,000 in 30 yrs. Do this every time your equity grows to $50kor $100k.

Investment funds -   have about $250/mon invested in your 11%/yr funds, that will grow to about $660k in 30 yrs. Or, if you have two household salaries, you might double the $250/m and have $1,320,000.

Just these 3 items add to multiple millions over a working life - no loans from relatives, no seed money gifts, yada.   -  and maybe those millions will double again for you in retirement (rule of 72).

[mroped]

Where do you keep on finding these investment funds that have an 11% a year because i don’t seem to find one! At least not in the last few years.
Could you point me in the right direction?

[Lizard Queen]

Jul 21, 2019 15:47:47 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

Now many businesses automatically put something like 3% in your 401k, that's a good deal.

I found myself a good, part time job that gives me a little extra time with my kids. They offer great benefits/matching--to full-time employees. I don't get Jack, so I'm looking for a job with some benefits. If I sound bitter, it's because I am.

[countrygirl2]

I understand that, they all want part time no benefit people.  Hard for them to have much of a life.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 21, 2019 16:47:01 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jul 21, 2019 15:47:47 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

Now many businesses automatically put something like 3% in your 401k, that's a good deal.

I found myself a good, part time job that gives me a little extra time with my kids. They offer great benefits/matching--to full-time employees. I don't get Jack, so I'm looking for a job with some benefits. If I sound bitter, it's because I am.

Why are you bitter? You made a choice that worked for you. I also made the decision to go part-time and I was way behind on my retirement because of it. I wasn’t bitter at my employer because they didn’t force me to go part time. If anything, they allowed me to keep my license active and not take myself completely out of the professional world

I went back full time almost 8 years ago and got a divorce almost 5 years ago, which highlighted the hit to my retirement savings. I busted my ass, got several promotions and jumped head first into real estate. I do not regret the time with my children and I am on track to retire early with enough rental income to not have a change in lifestyle

[MN-Investor]

Jul 21, 2019 16:31:45 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Invest at every chance. Eg, don't tie up your money in a car, borrow for the car and leave your money invested at 11%. Same with a house, borrow as much as possible for a long as possible - you don't want to tie up your money by prepaying 3 or 4% mortgages when you could be using that money to earn 11%.

This is certainly one approach but consider it carefully.

Not being in debt gives you more flexibility if you run into difficult times. The last thing you want to do when the stock market tanks and you lose your job is to have to sell your investments at a loss in order to pay your auto loan or mortgage.

Except for our first car out of college, we never borrowed to buy a car. We bought what we could afford based on our savings and budget. We paid off our house in 15 years - of course, the renegotiated mortgage was 11% at that point. But each of us had lost a job during those years and, because our only debt was an affordable mortgage, we could manage on a single income during those rougher times.

We saved like the dickens when we could, but we eschewed debt. It worked out extremely well for us and I highly recommend it. Borrow if you want - it worked for Phil. Or don't borrow and know that that can be a successful approach too.

[Lizard Queen]

Jul 21, 2019 17:19:54 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jul 21, 2019 16:47:01 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

I found myself a good, part time job that gives me a little extra time with my kids. They offer great benefits/matching--to full-time employees. I don't get Jack, so I'm looking for a job with some benefits. If I sound bitter, it's because I am.

Why are you bitter? You made a choice that worked for you. I also made the decision to go part-time and I was way behind on my retirement because of it. I wasn’t bitter at my employer because they didn’t force me to go part time. If anything, they allowed me to keep my license active and not take myself completely out of the professional world

I went back full time almost 8 years ago and got a divorce almost 5 years ago, which highlighted the hit to my retirement savings. I busted my ass, got several promotions and jumped head first into real estate. I do not regret the time with my children and I am on track to retire early with enough rental income to not have a change in lifestyle

I feel bitter, because I feel like a got a bait and switch from my employer. I'm one of only 2 part-time employees in a place of about 200 currently (I do payroll). Their website mentioned certain benefits available to part-timers (ie, tuition reimbursement), that suddenly were no longer available for me. I do not get any access to their 457, nor their dependent care FSA, which wouldn't really cost them anything to offer to me.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 19, 2019 16:15:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

What are you going to do with all your wealth, Paul? Sit on it like Scrooge McDuck, or be like this guy?

A carpenter saved his whole life to fund college scholarships and helped 33 strangers go to school for free

Since his death in 2005, that money has been doled out to 33 Iowans.

"Dale's Kids" met for dinner on Saturday to catch up on each other's lives and to honor the man who made their dreams possible. They sat around the old carpenter's lunch pail to share updates on their lives. Many are now doctors, teachers and therapists.


www.cnn.com/2019/07/19/us/carpenter-funds-33-college-scholarships-trnd/index.html

Yes, I know. Stupid question. Of course you'll use it to buy toys like expensive sports cars for yourself.

1. Actually, the point of this thread is that it's really stupid to sit on your money like Scrooge McDuck-- because we don't have money. We have fiat currency. They print it faster than you can save it or earn it, so the object is to keep it moving. Fiat isn't worth anything until it is exchanged for assets- assets being those things which produce more fiat currency or which have intrinsic value like land, gold, silver, income property, businesses, etc.

2. That is great for the carpenter and for those 33 kids. I'm glad they were at least grateful for his gift and did something productive with it. Not sure how it is related to the subject matter at hand? Ohhhh, maybe you're referring to the saving? Well, a friend of mine (long since retired) built a business. Business runs fine without him and they put hundreds of desperately poor and needy kids around the world in homes and school every year. Another friend of mine, funds the majority of Village Impact- formerly World Teacher Aid- which has built 12 schools, 100 classrooms, and helped educate 3,000 students-- and counting. So, you know- there are ways to be more generous but  you just have to be greedy enough to do it.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 19, 2019 16:29:57 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Welts ……… you don't know that.

There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to have fun with.  There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to help others.  There is nothing wrong with doing both.

We spend a little on fun stuff. It's true- and for the reasons you've stated, we don't make any apologies for it. Funny thing about the race car, my son and I were sitting around working up all the ways we could drop weight and we came to a conclusion: the most cost effective thing we could do is have the driver drop 50 pounds. Now, I should have done that 10 years ago for my health, but it took the car. Funny how we're wired, whatever moves us off the dime, right?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 19, 2019 16:34:45 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jul 19, 2019 16:29:57 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Welts ……… you don't know that.

There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to have fun with.  There is nothing wrong with using the funds you EARN to help others.  There is nothing wrong with doing both.

No, I don't. That's why I asked him....I was curious if he's going to put some poor kids through college.

As to my personal opinion? Charity begins at home. I have two kids of my own. Odds are good I'll have grand kids. I have 5 nieces and nephews as well. I'd rather help my own than do some high falutin charity stuff like my much wealthier friends. I do a little bit of giving, but I'm much more reluctant to contribute to "organizations" in particular as I get older. The economics of big lumbering charities closely resemble that of government- .75 cents of ever dollar gets chewed up on BS.

EDIT: to say nothing of my wife's parents and my own in their old age.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 21, 2019 17:41:18 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jul 21, 2019 17:19:54 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Why are you bitter? You made a choice that worked for you. I also made the decision to go part-time and I was way behind on my retirement because of it. I wasn’t bitter at my employer because they didn’t force me to go part time. If anything, they allowed me to keep my license active and not take myself completely out of the professional world

I went back full time almost 8 years ago and got a divorce almost 5 years ago, which highlighted the hit to my retirement savings. I busted my ass, got several promotions and jumped head first into real estate. I do not regret the time with my children and I am on track to retire early with enough rental income to not have a change in lifestyle

I feel bitter, because I feel like a got a bait and switch from my employer. I'm one of only 2 part-time employees in a place of about 200 currently (I do payroll). Their website mentioned certain benefits available to part-timers (ie, tuition reimbursement), that suddenly were no longer available for me. I do not get any access to their 457, nor their dependent care FSA, which wouldn't really cost them anything to offer to me.

If  you are not happy and want better benefits then I would look for employment elsewhere, especially if they lied to you when they hired you.  When we are hiring we clearly spell out the benefit package when we are making the offer.  401k eligibility is defined by our plan document so I could not add someone that was not eligible, even if I wanted to.  

[nittanycheme]

Jul 21, 2019 17:41:18 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Jul 21, 2019 17:19:54 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Why are you bitter? You made a choice that worked for you. I also made the decision to go part-time and I was way behind on my retirement because of it. I wasn’t bitter at my employer because they didn’t force me to go part time. If anything, they allowed me to keep my license active and not take myself completely out of the professional world

I went back full time almost 8 years ago and got a divorce almost 5 years ago, which highlighted the hit to my retirement savings. I busted my ass, got several promotions and jumped head first into real estate. I do not regret the time with my children and I am on track to retire early with enough rental income to not have a change in lifestyle

I feel bitter, because I feel like a got a bait and switch from my employer. I'm one of only 2 part-time employees in a place of about 200 currently (I do payroll). Their website mentioned certain benefits available to part-timers (ie, tuition reimbursement), that suddenly were no longer available for me. I do not get any access to their 457, nor their dependent care FSA, which wouldn't really cost them anything to offer to me.

For 401Ks, part time people need to work at least 1000 hours, assuming that the plan is set up that way.  That new SECURE Act passed by the House has a provision to change that rule to 500 hours per year over 3 years.  I don't know where that bill lies with the Senate - it just passed the house last week.

[nidena]

Savings accounts are just a joke nowadays.  I use mine more along the lines of focused pots to pull from later.  One is for moving, another is for 3-6 months of expenses.  They get .10% and .13% APY, respectively.  I know APY is different from APR but, at those numbers, does it even matter?  lol.  Again, they're just accounts separate from my primary checking account so that I don't spend the money before it's time and so I can better track how much is in each.  I have a third account that has only $50 which, apparently, is so low an amount, it doesn't even register an APY.  lol.

[jd2005]

I just use savings account for sinking funds to hold quarterly taxes, maintenance funds (house, car), insurance (life insurance), etc.

Any investment is done in the market.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I never consider my savings account as a way to make money.  It is merely another place to put money where I would need quick access.  I funnel money in, and when the balance gets to a certain point, I take half and invest it.