thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 25, 2019 8:40:25 GMT -5
companies like Wal*Mart had to pay a living wage
And you have just supported price and wage fixing. Check with Russia about how well Central Planning worked in the USSR.
This "Venezuela" / "Russia" thing as an argument for everything has reached the level of "Hitler" for me. It isn't really a good argument with any true understanding or nuance. It is just an inflammatory thing to say that doesn't clarify anything or show any level of understanding of the other side's perspective.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jun 26, 2019 10:57:18 GMT -5
Well you support our government subsidizing corporations underpaying workers so as to increase their profits. That’s fascism. I support people being paid enough they don’t need your tax dollars to pay for government assistance programs. Go ahead and call that whatever you want. Ok so how much is being paid enough? Who gets to set that standard? We have a min wage what more do you want. I believe in people are in charge of their life it's their responsibility to provide for themselves nit the hove the welfare system should be shutdown and revamped. Not going to hurt anyone to work 60-80-100 hrs a wee Week
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 26, 2019 11:03:30 GMT -5
You remain naïve about the wage crisis in America even though it has been explained numerous times. Since 1973 wages have not kept pace with productivity and the profits that increased productivity has created. You always imply that a HUGE amount of the American people are lazy, on welfare, don't work etc. and you are completely wrong on that. Folks are just not getting paid commensurate with what they have created in goods and services. You mention the minimum wage which is lagging far behind where it would be if adjusted for inflation.
So here is your truth...you support massive corporate profits over people being paid enough to have a decent life. You support massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that create crippling deficits. You believe a vast number of Americans just need to work 60-80-100 hours a week regardless if they have children yet are pro-life/family values. Congratulations.
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Jun 26, 2019 11:15:11 GMT -5
You remain naïve about the wage crisis in America even though it has been explained numerous times. Since 1973 wages have not kept pace with productivity and the profits that increased productivity has created. You always imply that a HUGE amount of the American people are lazy, on welfare, don't work etc. and you are completely wrong on that. Folks are just not getting paid commensurate with what they have created in goods and services. You mention the minimum wage which is lagging far behind where it would be if adjusted for inflation.
So here is your truth...you support massive corporate profits over people being paid enough to have a decent life. You support massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that create crippling deficits. You believe a vast number of Americans just need to work 60-80-100 hours a week regardless if they have children yet are pro-life/family values. Congratulations. No I'm not naive. You never answered my question just how much is a living wage? And my next question what do you have against people pushing themselves to take care of their family? Corporations have a fiduciary duty to their stock holders to max their profits. If people don't want to work for the pay they are offering they would have no choice but to raise their pay scale or move to another country If course Dems like that just like they like taxing the hell out of them so they move out of the country
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 26, 2019 11:31:44 GMT -5
You remain naïve about the wage crisis in America even though it has been explained numerous times. Since 1973 wages have not kept pace with productivity and the profits that increased productivity has created. You always imply that a HUGE amount of the American people are lazy, on welfare, don't work etc. and you are completely wrong on that. Folks are just not getting paid commensurate with what they have created in goods and services. You mention the minimum wage which is lagging far behind where it would be if adjusted for inflation.
So here is your truth...you support massive corporate profits over people being paid enough to have a decent life. You support massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that create crippling deficits. You believe a vast number of Americans just need to work 60-80-100 hours a week regardless if they have children yet are pro-life/family values. Congratulations. No I'm not naive. You never answered my question just how much is a living wage? this took about 15 seconds:
livingwage.mit.edu/
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 26, 2019 11:35:03 GMT -5
You remain naïve about the wage crisis in America even though it has been explained numerous times. Since 1973 wages have not kept pace with productivity and the profits that increased productivity has created. You always imply that a HUGE amount of the American people are lazy, on welfare, don't work etc. and you are completely wrong on that. Folks are just not getting paid commensurate with what they have created in goods and services. You mention the minimum wage which is lagging far behind where it would be if adjusted for inflation.
So here is your truth...you support massive corporate profits over people being paid enough to have a decent life. You support massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that create crippling deficits. You believe a vast number of Americans just need to work 60-80-100 hours a week regardless if they have children yet are pro-life/family values. Congratulations. No I'm not naive. You never answered my question just how much is a living wage? And my next question what do you have against people pushing themselves to take care of their family? Corporations have a fiduciary duty to their stock holders to max their profits. If people don't want to work for the pay they are offering they would have no choice but to raise their pay scale or move to another country If course Dems like that just like they like taxing the hell out of them so they move out of the country Until you acknowledge that there is a wage crisis, since 1973, you remain naïve. I'm not sure how much a living wage is but can probably provide a link for you as you seem unable to look it up for yourself. Give me a sec. OK here we go. First a definition:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage Now a calculator based on COL across America:
livingwage.mit.edu/
That you believe that I am "against people pushing themselves to take care of their family is just more proof of your naivete. I have never even come close to implying that. As for the remainder of your post....you get the 'just don't get it' award once again. Your naivete is legion!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 26, 2019 11:35:30 GMT -5
And my next question what do you have against people pushing themselves to take care of their family? Corporations have a fiduciary duty to their stock holders to max their profits. If people don't want to work for the pay they are offering they would have no choice but to raise their pay scale or move to another country If course Dems like that just like they like taxing the hell out of them so they move out of the country the next question is a red herring. nobody is arguing against "striving". but when the RESULT of your striving is that you are barely making it, that is not OK. you are correct about corporations. however, there is no contradiction between paying people commensurate on work performed and looking out for the interests of the enterprise. Costco is a good example. there are many others. and corporations have NEVER paid less tax than today, yet they are not "flooding into" this country. explain that.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 26, 2019 15:52:49 GMT -5
... Corporations have a fiduciary duty to their stock holders to max their profits. ... Corporations exist because the representatives of US citizens have passed laws allowing them to exist. I think that we are within our rights to ask certain things of them for that privilege. I think that they have a responsibility to us as well.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 26, 2019 16:58:35 GMT -5
Well you support our government subsidizing corporations underpaying workers so as to increase their profits. That’s fascism. I support people being paid enough they don’t need your tax dollars to pay for government assistance programs. Go ahead and call that whatever you want. Ok so how much is being paid enough? Who gets to set that standard? We have a min wage what more do you want. I believe in people are in charge of their life it's their responsibility to provide for themselves nit the hove the welfare system should be shutdown and revamped. Not going to hurt anyone to work 60-80-100 hrs a wee WeekYou can't possibly be serious! The richest country in the world, where people have to work 100 hours a week, just to put bread on the table and a roof over their heads.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 26, 2019 17:02:04 GMT -5
Ok so how much is being paid enough? Who gets to set that standard? We have a min wage what more do you want. I believe in people are in charge of their life it's their responsibility to provide for themselves nit the hove the welfare system should be shutdown and revamped. Not going to hurt anyone to work 60-80-100 hrs a wee WeekYou can't possibly be serious! The richest country in the world, where people have to work 100 hours a week, just to put bread on the table and a roof over their heads. So 80 percent of the country is working 60 - 80 - 100 hours a week to put a roof over their heads and get enough to eat, while the top 10 % continues to sop up the bulk of the wealth.
Sounds like a 3rd world nation. Also sounds pretty unsustainable, unless we revert back to kings and serfs, plus the knights hired by the kings to keep the serfs in line and working 24/7 to keep themselves out of pauper's prison.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 26, 2019 17:04:21 GMT -5
Perhaps you want little kids to work as well......their little fingers would do well in factories, assembling small parts for electronics.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 26, 2019 17:04:54 GMT -5
I'm so fucking sick of this American idea that working 60+ hours a week with maybe 2 wks of vacation is not only acceptable but a perfectly fine way to live. While they blithely ignore all the studies that show how it's bad for both the workers and corporations.
I'm a decade into my career and it's fucked up that these dinosaur companies are like oh let's give you the same amount of vacation as a kid. fuck that shit.
If your company has positions that consistently need over 40 hours to complete you need more employees. Period.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 26, 2019 17:10:56 GMT -5
Funny how people in other first world countries clock out at 17h00 and go for a leisurely cafe au lait or a drink with friends, and yet somehow manage to pay for food and housing. Nobody works 100 hours a week just to survive. Plus, they get a crapload of vacation time. Only in America do you have to work yourself to death, running like a hamster on a rodent wheel.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 26, 2019 17:49:15 GMT -5
There are plenty of Americans that just.don't.get.it.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Jun 26, 2019 18:38:36 GMT -5
Funny how people in other first world countries clock out at 17h00 and go for a leisurely cafe au lait or a drink with friends, and yet somehow manage to pay for food and housing. Nobody works 100 hours a week just to survive. Plus, they get a crapload of vacation time. Only in America do you have to work yourself to death, running like a hamster on a rodent wheel.That's why we call it the "rat race!"
I see it every morning. A bunch of miserable zombies driving their SUVs and sedans in gridlock traffic to go sit in a building (or on a jobsite, a classroom, etc) for 10-12 hours just to barely survive. There is a legit medical condition now for all of this. Its called burn out. And I definitely have it!
www.helpguide.org/articles/stress/burnout-prevention-and-recovery.htm
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 26, 2019 20:04:10 GMT -5
No I'm not naive. You never answered my question just how much is a living wage? this took about 15 seconds:
livingwage.mit.edu/
Pfffttt. What do those nerds at MIT know. We should get our information from a real University - Like Liberty University!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 27, 2019 17:27:43 GMT -5
... Corporations have a fiduciary duty to their stock holders to max their profits. ... Corporations exist because the representatives of US citizens have passed laws allowing them to exist. I think that we are within our rights to ask certain things of them for that privilege. I think that they have a responsibility to us as well. it might be well to remember that if they fail to promote the general welfare, we could undo their existence with the stroke of a pen, as well.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 27, 2019 20:54:12 GMT -5
Exactly, and of great concern is that the wealth DISPARITY in this country is GROWING. Another troubling trend in the United States is stagnation by economic class. One of our great strengths used to be class mobility. We are no longer the envy of the world there, and most European countries have now outpaced us in that dynamic. This helps to explain why few of the president's great Norwegians are hustling to emigrate here. Europe has caught us, and largely surpassed us. Is the solution Take money from the rich, give it to the poor, As long as they have free money coming in, why build anything better, And if you are a mover, make a lot of money,, We will take it from you ,, give it to the poor , that well,, don't work! Wow that sounds great!!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 27, 2019 20:59:22 GMT -5
You remain naïve about the wage crisis in America even though it has been explained numerous times. Since 1973 wages have not kept pace with productivity and the profits that increased productivity has created. You always imply that a HUGE amount of the American people are lazy, on welfare, don't work etc. and you are completely wrong on that. Folks are just not getting paid commensurate with what they have created in goods and services. You mention the minimum wage which is lagging far behind where it would be if adjusted for inflation.
So here is your truth...you support massive corporate profits over people being paid enough to have a decent life. You support massive tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations that create crippling deficits. You believe a vast number of Americans just need to work 60-80-100 hours a week regardless if they have children yet are pro-life/family values. Congratulations. You need to go over to the Jimmie thread, then tell about how all these wonderful employees, deserve so much money,, share in the profits
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 27, 2019 20:59:50 GMT -5
Exactly, and of great concern is that the wealth DISPARITY in this country is GROWING. Another troubling trend in the United States is stagnation by economic class. One of our great strengths used to be class mobility. We are no longer the envy of the world there, and most European countries have now outpaced us in that dynamic. This helps to explain why few of the president's great Norwegians are hustling to emigrate here. Europe has caught us, and largely surpassed us. Is the solution Take money from the rich, give it to the poor,
if they took it from the poor in the first place, yes.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 27, 2019 21:02:19 GMT -5
I'm so fucking sick of this American idea that working 60+ hours a week with maybe 2 wks of vacation is not only acceptable but a perfectly fine way to live. While they blithely ignore all the studies that show how it's bad for both the workers and corporations. I'm a decade into my career and it's fucked up that these dinosaur companies are like oh let's give you the same amount of vacation as a kid. fuck that shit. If your company has positions that consistently need over 40 hours to complete you need more employees. Period. Then quit, Take your services and skills else where.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 27, 2019 21:06:15 GMT -5
You distribute all the wealth you want, in a short time the ones that know how to make money will have it back,
those that don't know will be crying about those people again, have all the money need some one to give it back.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 27, 2019 21:14:26 GMT -5
You distribute all the wealth you want, in a short time the ones that know how to make money will have it back,
those that don't know will be crying about those people again, have all the money need some one to give it back.
please remind us all what happened when FDR distributed wealth during the last major downturn.
did it result in decreasing inequality? did it result in decreased economic growth? did it result in declining fortunes for the middle and lower classes? did the wealthy flee to some safe haven for capital?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 27, 2019 21:25:05 GMT -5
Tell me DJ, if you lost all you money tomorrow, I am willing to say, a few years down the road,, you would have it back, maybe more. That is because you know how to make money. A whole lot of people do not know how to do that, So they are indeed stuck in their job, It is their fault for not figuring out what they need to do. Or don't want to do it!
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jun 27, 2019 21:30:22 GMT -5
Why is it so difficult for the standard Repo-Con to understand that American workers have been getting underpaid since 1973 and that we would all be better off if they weren’t?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 27, 2019 21:40:38 GMT -5
Why is it so difficult for the standard Repo-Con to understand that American workers have been getting underpaid since 1973 and that we would all be better off if they weren’t? it is a week argument to the rich, don.
a better argument is that the way to STAY rich is to share some small fraction of the wealth. the reason being twofold:
1) if you don't, someday, your house will be surrounded by starving people with pitchforks and rifles. 2) if you DO, they will end up buying products and services which will keep the gravy train rolling.
even if you don't like threats (as you know, i sure as hell don't), you have to like money.
i mean, who doesn't?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 27, 2019 21:43:45 GMT -5
Tell me DJ, if you lost all you money tomorrow, I am willing to say, a few years down the road,, you would have it back, maybe more. That is because you know how to make money. A whole lot of people do not know how to do that
it depends, OC.
there is a MEANS to capital in every system. but at the end of the day, it depends on a few crucial things:
1) a sound legal framework that allows business to take place 2) a thriving middle class 3) a sound financial system
of those three, we have one, right now, imo. and Trump is working very hard to undermine it. i am very worried that all opportunity will be lost unless we fix the other two.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 27, 2019 22:41:51 GMT -5
I have to hand it to you DJ, Your business are in Cali I believe, lots of regulations, taxes, high cost of doing business there, cost of fuel,, Most of all the traffic!. You have success in business there.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 27, 2019 22:46:26 GMT -5
I have to hand it to you DJ, Your business are in Cali I believe, lots of regulations, taxes, high cost of doing business there, cost of fuel,, Most of all the traffic!. You have success in business there.
every single one of my businesses is in a "niche market". it is actually not hard to run businesses in niche markets. it is tough to find those markets, and tough to serve them. but the BUSINESS part is pretty easy.
edit: of all those, traffic is the one that drives me nuts. it is the one cost I can't pass on to customers.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 27, 2019 22:48:30 GMT -5
Mine also is a niche business.
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