happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on May 22, 2019 7:29:38 GMT -5
Looks like more and more the Dems are pushing for some kind of impeachment investigation.
Trump, IMHO, is deliberately antagonizing the Dems by refusing to let any of his staff respond to subpoenas for questioning by the House, and by legally attempting to block any request for documents, and it's making the Dems push harder and harder for an impeachment investigation. Then he piles on with all his insulting, mocking tweets. He's egging them on.
I think that's the WORST thing the dems can do, actually. They don't have the votes to succeed in getting the impeachment, as the GOP, for whatever crazy reason, seems determined to remain supportive of Trump. All it will do is cause further infighting in the country, while giving the president a big boost when running for 2020 - "Here I was fighting to improve your lives and protect you while the DEMS couldn't focus on anything else but IMPEACHMENT - AND THEY FAILED AT IT."
Dems should instead be building a kick ass platform and focusing on winning the 2020 election. Boot Trump out of office and let him face the countless lawsuits and investigations as a private citizen, without the office of POTUS as his bully pulpit. For a narcissist of his caliber, the worst thing that can happen to him is he'll become unimportant again, with his businesses exposed and floundering, and a bunch of his former pals either in jail or disgraced. Let him quickly become a national bad memory, tweeting out tweets that mostly get ignored because he just doesn't matter anymore, attempting to hold his cheerleading rallies that no one attends. When the history books are written, Trump will be a black spot in the presidential line, the most criminal, self dealing, self involved, borderline fascist president ever.
I hope Pelosi can hold the Dems back from this. Let them hold an investigation, if they want. Let them total up all the obstructionist/fascist shit Trump's been doing. But hopefully she can rein in the impeachment itself.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/under-mounting-pressure-from-dems-pelosi-to-hold-closed-door-impeachment-meeting/ar-AABHmjD
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on May 22, 2019 7:34:18 GMT -5
Pelosi might have met her Waterloo. I think whe outsmarted herself and underestimated the new Democratic party.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,753
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 22, 2019 13:16:17 GMT -5
I agree with NP. We just need to wait for the election. I wasn't of voting age during the last impeachment, but I have no fond memories of any of that. Let's just wait it out.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on May 22, 2019 13:16:51 GMT -5
Nope, they're still with her. The young Turks are itching to pull the trigger, and so are many others. She is inching closer too, but she knows how to play this game, and she is happily giving trump enough rope to hang himself. High. Seriously. Like today, I was ‘why are they bothering to meet with him in infrastructure?’ ... and then trump storms out and announces to the world he won’t do his job while being investigated... and Pelosi wins again... It’s a necessary slow burn. I just hope some of the things happening in the meantime are still fixable... I am not terribly optimistic.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on May 22, 2019 13:18:02 GMT -5
Oh no. Sorry. Do not agree. ‘Waiting out’ total disregard for the constitution isn’t possible... that is not a precedent that should be set...
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,912
|
Post by bean29 on May 22, 2019 13:44:19 GMT -5
Seriously. Like today, I was ‘why are they bothering to meet with him in infrastructure?’ ... and then trump storms out and announces to the world he won’t do his job while being investigated... and Pelosi wins again... It’s a necessary slow burn. I just hope some of the things happening in the meantime are still fixable... I am not terribly optimistic. I just got done looking at that on the news feed. Wow. The guy walks into the room visibly agitated, blurbles a few words about how Nancy said "something terrible" and then storms out. Then he goes on an off script and rambling rant to the press about not doing his work. Wow. Maybe he should stop meeting "Chuck and Nancy" in the oval office, because he always seems to screw it up pretty badly. Yeah, I would love to watch Rachel Maddow tonight, but I already decided that after I get home from my hair apt, I am watching Jimmy Kimmel's revival of All in the Family and the Jeffersons.
www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2019/05/20/kimmel-spurs-all-in-the-family-the-jeffersons-all-star-revival/3705469002/
|
|
grumpyhermit
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,432
|
Post by grumpyhermit on May 22, 2019 14:00:19 GMT -5
If I were in Pelosi's district, she would have lost my vote. If the Democrats in power are just going to sit idle while Trump runs rough shod over the Constitution, and not exercise their constitutional powers, I will happily start voting my conscious, instead of the "lesser of two evils." This notion that we are going to have free and fair elections NEXT time, when signs seem to point to the fact we didn't have it last time (interference, hacking, non-audit able ballots, gerrymandering, and voter suppression) is laughable. I suspect the main line Dems are going to lose more than a few progressives over this inaction. I hope their gamble that they will win back enough "moderates" pays off.
|
|
grumpyhermit
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,432
|
Post by grumpyhermit on May 22, 2019 14:45:23 GMT -5
You do get why, correct? Impeachment has no path in the Senate, NADA. It is a dead end procedurally, and it is a bad gamble politically- at least for now. That equation could change, and as written above, Pelosi is currently paying out the rope as fast as numb nutz will pull it in. I do, and I fundamentally disagree with the argument they are making. I think her messaging on the issue of impeachment has been horrendous. I don't think that the fact that the Senate will refuse to try and possibly remove him is reason for the House not to open a formal investigation and do it's job. I am fully aware they are playing political games, and I think we just disagree on the result of the gamble.
They think they are likely to lose moderates if they move to open an investigation. They very well might. However, I also think they will lose some progressives when they fail to do anything at all. Time will tell.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
|
Post by thyme4change on May 22, 2019 14:48:38 GMT -5
If Congress doesn't investigate and preserve their power of oversight, we will be a dictatorship in my children's lifetimes.
But, they are in a pickle. They need to sway public opinion, and given today's atmosphere, they need a big ol' smoking gun.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,344
|
Post by Tennesseer on May 22, 2019 16:21:48 GMT -5
Andy Borowitz
20 hrs “I can’t fucking believe he hasn’t been impeached yet.”
— Nixon in Hell
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on May 22, 2019 16:50:25 GMT -5
Pelosi might have met her Waterloo. I think whe outsmarted herself and underestimated the new Democratic party. Pelosi can outsmart Trump with her brain in a Tupperware container in the fridge.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
|
Post by thyme4change on May 22, 2019 18:23:44 GMT -5
Andy Borowitz 20 hrs “I can’t fucking believe he hasn’t been impeached yet.”
— Nixon in Hell 🤣
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on May 23, 2019 7:43:42 GMT -5
I do, and I fundamentally disagree with the argument they are making. I think her messaging on the issue of impeachment has been horrendous. I don't think that the fact that the Senate will refuse to try and possibly remove him is reason for the House not to open a formal investigation and do it's job. I am fully aware they are playing political games, and I think we just disagree on the result of the gamble.
They think they are likely to lose moderates if they move to open an investigation. They very well might. However, I also think they will lose some progressives when they fail to do anything at all. Time will tell.
And you may be right. It is a difficult political calculation. And one that may still end up leading to articles of impeachment depending on how it goes. The district court of southern NY ruled today that Dueche Bank and Capital One had to turn over their records on trump. So far all of his delaying tactics are coming up short. Not just the Deutche bank records - Trump has had multiple judges rule against him in the last week or so, and reams of documents are now getting delivered to the House investigative committees. I think it's one of the reasons he was so pissy Wednesday, he's been trying his usual method of delaying legal issues with appeals, but unlike in the real estate arena, the political arena moves faster, especially when the POTUS is involved.
And he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. There is 200 years of precedent that says Congress has the right to investigate the president and his financial/business matters. I don't know if there is a 'smoking gun' in there that could prove a financial tie to Russia, but there is a lot of quasi-legal shit in Trump's businesses and charity that will make it hard for all but the most hard core Trumpettes to keep up their belief in Trump as a fine upstanding businessman. It should help cripple his 2020 campaign, even if it isn't enough to impeach him, and really, the most important thing for the nation right now is to elect any other human being to POTUS other than Trump.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,333
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
Member is Online
|
Post by busymom on May 23, 2019 9:28:33 GMT -5
Andy Borowitz 20 hrs “I can’t fucking believe he hasn’t been impeached yet.”
— Nixon in Hell I LOVE Andy Borowitz! He's a "friend" on Facebook. His humor is one of the few things I can smile about during the current administration. He allows us to laugh at scary-crazy.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,489
|
Post by chiver78 on May 23, 2019 9:56:06 GMT -5
I agree with NP. We just need to wait for the election. I wasn't of voting age during the last impeachment, but I have no fond memories of any of that. Let's just wait it out. I did not think I was older than you. 1998?
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on May 23, 2019 11:14:05 GMT -5
I do think we need public hearings...
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,753
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 23, 2019 12:06:51 GMT -5
I agree with NP. We just need to wait for the election. I wasn't of voting age during the last impeachment, but I have no fond memories of any of that. Let's just wait it out. I did not think I was older than you. 1998? You're like 12 - 18 months older than I am. I swear I'm not stalking you; it's just we've had this realization before. ETA: Okay, I thought the investigation started in the mid-90s, but apparently not. I was of voting age in 1998.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,753
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 23, 2019 12:11:56 GMT -5
I do think we need public hearings... And I do understand that, and I partially feel that way because I don't understand how this buffoon can be allowed to remain in office. But, at the moment, I just cannot deal with this ridiculousness that is the POTUS, so I don't want there to be anything added to it. We cannot even get a straight answer on the Mueller report. Why have another hearing? It's just going to add to the circus.
I also see it going the way of the Benghazi investigations and hearings. I don't think any of that was necessary after the first one. I don't want to go down that road again, even though it's on the other side of the table.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on May 23, 2019 12:14:58 GMT -5
I do think we need public hearings... And I do understand that, and I partially feel that way because I don't understand how this buffoon can be allowed to remain in office. But, at the moment, I just cannot deal with this ridiculousness that is the POTUS, so I don't want there to be anything added to it. We cannot even get a straight answer on the Mueller report. Why have another hearing? It's just going to add to the circus.
I also see it going the way of the Benghazi investigations and hearings. I don't think any of that was necessary after the first one. I don't want to go down that road again, even though it's on the other side of the table. Why? To get a straight answer. To have mueller testify. To have the people who refused to testify for mueller testify to congress who has a greater authority. Because what is obvious from the redacted mueller report is that mueller felt he didn’t have authority to take action and that he thinks congress DOES have not just that authority but responsibility...
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,489
|
Post by chiver78 on May 23, 2019 12:19:38 GMT -5
I did not think I was older than you. 1998? You're like 12 - 18 months older than I am. I swear I'm not stalking you; it's just we've had this realization before. ETA: Okay, I thought the investigation started in the mid-90s, but apparently not. I was of voting age in 1998. 1) I may have you mixed up in my head with someone else. I'll own that. the '78 in my screenname is there for a reason, if that helps.☺ 2) I knew I was already in college when the impeachment proceedings started, and I was 18 when I got there. actually, the college I went to was the only one I had applied to where I would be 18 to start bc they started so late. my birthday is labor day weekend.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on May 23, 2019 12:20:05 GMT -5
And quite frankly people are not reading the report... it’s much harder to ignore public testimony.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,753
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 23, 2019 12:22:49 GMT -5
oped is on the left. Chloe is on the right.
|
|
Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 13,753
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1980e6
|
Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 23, 2019 12:23:55 GMT -5
You're like 12 - 18 months older than I am. I swear I'm not stalking you; it's just we've had this realization before. ETA: Okay, I thought the investigation started in the mid-90s, but apparently not. I was of voting age in 1998. 1) I may have you mixed up in my head with someone else. I'll own that. the '78 in my screenname is there for a reason, if that helps.☺ 2) I knew I was already in college when the impeachment proceedings started, and I was 18 when I got there. actually, the college I went to was the only one I had applied to where I would be 18 to start bc they started so late. my birthday is labor day weekend. You're 14 months older than I am.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,489
|
Post by chiver78 on May 23, 2019 12:29:39 GMT -5
duly noted! I definitely had you mixed up with someone else in my head. 😳
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on May 24, 2019 10:11:35 GMT -5
And I do understand that, and I partially feel that way because I don't understand how this buffoon can be allowed to remain in office. But, at the moment, I just cannot deal with this ridiculousness that is the POTUS, so I don't want there to be anything added to it. We cannot even get a straight answer on the Mueller report. Why have another hearing? It's just going to add to the circus.
I also see it going the way of the Benghazi investigations and hearings. I don't think any of that was necessary after the first one. I don't want to go down that road again, even though it's on the other side of the table. Why? To get a straight answer. To have mueller testify. To have the people who refused to testify for mueller testify to congress who has a greater authority. Because what is obvious from the redacted mueller report is that mueller felt he didn’t have authority to take action and that he thinks congress DOES have not just that authority but responsibility... I agree, we need to have an impeachment investigation. I just don't think we need to vote to impeach, because we don't have the votes, it will fail, and Trump will spin that into a vindication, which it is not.
However, it's important to get the full Mueller report out, and to get Mueller to testify publically, because Trump just told Barr to review the Mueller report and cherry pick which parts of the report should be made public. We absolutely don't need Trump's version of the report out there, without also having the whole report available, and Mueller to explain it. Too many voters are low information voters and would fall for Trump's propaganda if we don't.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
|
Post by thyme4change on May 24, 2019 10:16:40 GMT -5
Why? To get a straight answer. To have mueller testify. To have the people who refused to testify for mueller testify to congress who has a greater authority. Because what is obvious from the redacted mueller report is that mueller felt he didn’t have authority to take action and that he thinks congress DOES have not just that authority but responsibility... I agree, we need to have an impeachment investigation. I just don't think we need to vote to impeach, because we don't have the votes, it will fail, and Trump will spin that into a vindication, which it is not.
However, it's important to get the full Mueller report out, and to get Mueller to testify publically, because Trump just told Barr to review the Mueller report and cherry pick which parts of the report should be made public. We absolutely don't need Trump's version of the report out there, without also having the whole report available, and Mueller to explain it. Too many voters are low information voters and would fall for Trump's propaganda if we don't.
Could they do the whole investigation, wrap up all the evidence, set it aside, claim it would be uncool to impeach during the campaign, and then see if they gain the Senate in 2020 (and if he gets re-elected). If they find anything criminal and he isn't reelected, turn it over to someone who can charge him.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,344
|
Post by Tennesseer on May 24, 2019 10:17:30 GMT -5
Why? To get a straight answer. To have mueller testify. To have the people who refused to testify for mueller testify to congress who has a greater authority. Because what is obvious from the redacted mueller report is that mueller felt he didn’t have authority to take action and that he thinks congress DOES have not just that authority but responsibility... I agree, we need to have an impeachment investigation. I just don't think we need to vote to impeach, because we don't have the votes, it will fail, and Trump will spin that into a vindication, which it is not.
However, it's important to get the full Mueller report out, and to get Mueller to testify publically, because Trump just told Barr to review the Mueller report and cherry pick which parts of the report should be made public. We absolutely don't need Trump's version of the report out there, without also having the whole report available, and Mueller to explain it. Too many voters are low information voters and would fall for Trump's propaganda if we don't.
House Judiciary chair: Mueller 'wants to testify in private'
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,856
|
Post by happyhoix on May 24, 2019 10:22:51 GMT -5
I agree, we need to have an impeachment investigation. I just don't think we need to vote to impeach, because we don't have the votes, it will fail, and Trump will spin that into a vindication, which it is not.
However, it's important to get the full Mueller report out, and to get Mueller to testify publically, because Trump just told Barr to review the Mueller report and cherry pick which parts of the report should be made public. We absolutely don't need Trump's version of the report out there, without also having the whole report available, and Mueller to explain it. Too many voters are low information voters and would fall for Trump's propaganda if we don't.
House Judiciary chair: Mueller 'wants to testify in private'Yep. I understand where Mueller is coming from, he doesn't want his testimony to be used politically, but I think we have to override that and make it public. Maybe they can release the transcripts after his testimony?
I really think Mueller is an upstanding, very law abiding guy who doesn't want to be partisan. This has to be a nightmare for him, being stuck inside this tornado.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on May 24, 2019 10:30:21 GMT -5
I can’t predict a vote until there is an investigation...
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on May 25, 2019 14:56:54 GMT -5
|
|