steff
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Post by steff on May 10, 2019 12:01:38 GMT -5
to all the ones saying it's no big deal... first of all, read the last 2 sentences of my original post. And secondly, hope your wives/loved ones would be concerned if you were in the same situation even if you don't care enough to feel the same way about them in the situation.
For me, I actually love my husband enough to have been worried & scared. It's called being FUCKING HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS. Instead of being cold ass, don't give a shit, macho, toxic assholes who care more about their guns than their loved ones.
And fuck off while you're at it.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 10, 2019 12:11:59 GMT -5
to all the ones saying it's no big deal... first of all, read the last 2 sentences of my original post. And secondly, hope your wives/loved ones would be concerned if you were in the same situation even if you don't care enough to feel the same way about them in the situation.
For me, I actually love my husband enough to have been worried & scared. It's called being FUCKING HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS. Instead of being cold ass, don't give a shit, macho, toxic assholes who care more about their guns than their loved ones.
And fuck off while you're at it.
I hope their families don't feel a god damn thing for them if they are in that situation. And hopefully anyone they think they love has someone else to depend on, because if their grandchildren text them hiding, afraid and hearing gunshots I imagine the response will be that they should have been more prepared.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 10, 2019 12:38:38 GMT -5
Let's increase the odd's,, who here have ever been involved in a mass shooting? I don't mean where a deranged family member or a disgruntled employee, takes out revenge!
Well I haven't, but children who lived IN MY HOME, were this week. At school, without their parents, and not with each other they huddled in corners of classrooms. So yeah, it's personal for me. Even more so for Steff, who didn't start this thread for political reasons, but because it was her husband. I thought you were just a troll, but you are so much worse. You apparently have lost any human ability to feel or show compassion or empathy. You only care about your cause. **Edited to add -- I shouldn't assume to say why Steff started this thread, but it wasn't a link to an article, about a cause she supports. It's a personal situation. I have no words for people who would twist that into their agenda.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 13:00:15 GMT -5
Here's a good one. The chances of being struck by lightning is 1 in a million. The odds of being shot in a school shooting 1 in 7.8 million. I don't wear a lightning rod that's grounded. I probably am wasting my time wearing a gun on campus. As an aside, it's one in 15 million to be killed at a school shooting. You stand a chance of being struck by lightning 15 times, to equal the chance of being killed at a school shooting There is nothing you can do to control a lightning strike. We do have some control over access to guns. Straw man fallacy. (bolded) I never said anything about "controlling" a lightning strike. My point was the odds of being shot in a school shooting, versus getting struck by lightning. Both can be avoided, or not, depending on what is acceptable risk for the person involved. As a 7.8 to 1 ratio, lightning is far more risky, if you choose to not modify your behavior, in regards to the risk.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 10, 2019 13:04:01 GMT -5
The people who work in banking are trained to know there can be problems. I see from time to time where schools are training the students and faculty. It's not just gun nuts. I was in WY when a professor's son went into his class room with class in session with a cross bow. The student's fled when told but the professor died. There are stats out that show knives are worse than guns. I don't have access right now to the stats.
Knives vs. Shotguns only, yes. Hand guns are still far and beyond the big killer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 13:04:20 GMT -5
Here's a good one. The chances of being struck by lightning is 1 in a million. The odds of being shot in a school shooting 1 in 7.8 million. I don't wear a lightning rod that's grounded. I probably am wasting my time wearing a gun on a campus. As an aside, it's one in 15 million to be killed at a school shooting. You stand a chance of being struck by lightning 15 times, to equal the chance of being killed at a school shooting ...and the odds of getting to play hero? Hi Sparty, long time. The last time I talked to you was when you were on a field trip with Virgil, to market talk from EE, on the old MSN site. (I think) I don't know what you're trying to say in "playing hero". I personally run away from confrontation that doesn't include me as the intended target. Risk avoidance and all that. It's also been about 40 years since I've been on a college campus, now that I think about it.
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steff
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Post by steff on May 10, 2019 13:09:59 GMT -5
Let's increase the odd's,, who here have ever been involved in a mass shooting? I don't mean where a deranged family member or a disgruntled employee, takes out revenge!
Well I haven't, but children who lived IN MY HOME, were this week. At school, without their parents, and not with each other they huddled in corners of classrooms. So yeah, it's personal for me. Even more so for Steff, who didn't start this thread for political reasons, but because it was her husband. I thought you were just a troll, but you are so much worse. You apparently have lost any human ability to feel or show compassion or empathy. You only care about your cause. **Edited to add -- I shouldn't assume to say why Steff started this thread, but it wasn't a link to an article, about a cause she supports. It's a personal situation. I have no words for people who would twist that into their agenda. I was scared & starting to get angry about the situation. I'm states away from my husband, can't contact him until after classes each day, haven't physically seen him in almost 4 months & I was incredibly scared & freaked out by something so completely out of my control. I had already done my crying once I heard from him & knew he was safe, but still wanted to share how close to home this hit. We all discuss school shootings & this time it hit (two of us) closer than it ever had before. It shows how it can literally happen to any one of us in the blink of an eye.
I know my husband is safe when he's at work in the plant. After 9/11 his plant became a fortress with security because it's national food production. But he's not in the plant. He's states away on a college campus. I worry endlessly about my son at work because he's in contact with the public in a very gun happy area of the country. Hearing literally THE DAY BEFORE that he had active shooter drills scared me. As a mom, it should scare any mom when your child describes what they are to do during a shooting. As a mom, he's still my little boy even if he's a grown man who will turn 25 next week. As a mom, he's my only child. As a mom, it terrifies me to even think of him in that situation. and as I'm still processing that information, my husband is caught in an active shooter lockdown. If that wouldn't freak someone out, then they have no heart, no feelings, and says a LOT about the kind of person they are. And for that coldness, they can all go fuck themselves. At the same time, I will still hope for them that their loved ones never have to face the same thing, even knowing that their "protector male figure" doesn't give two shits about it because it's not a big deal to them. I feel sorry for their loved ones.
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steff
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Post by steff on May 10, 2019 13:17:42 GMT -5
Let's increase the odd's,, who here have ever been involved in a mass shooting? I don't mean where a deranged family member or a disgruntled employee, takes out revenge!
Well I haven't, but children who lived IN MY HOME, were this week. At school, without their parents, and not with each other they huddled in corners of classrooms. So yeah, it's personal for me. Even more so for Steff, who didn't start this thread for political reasons, but because it was her husband. I thought you were just a troll, but you are so much worse. You apparently have lost any human ability to feel or show compassion or empathy. You only care about your cause. **Edited to add -- I shouldn't assume to say why Steff started this thread, but it wasn't a link to an article, about a cause she supports. It's a personal situation. I have no words for people who would twist that into their agenda. I'm happy (that words sucks in this context) that all your kids (own & extended) were safe. I think if it had been my son I would have fallen apart in a completely different way. I can't even think about that without tearing up (even now just writing this makes me all teary eyed). There's nothing that can calm that panic in the moment. It just grows and grows until you can't even think straight.
I admit even tho there are workplace shootings, I had a false sense of security because no one here is in school anymore. I very very briefly thought about hubby is on a school campus & school shootings, but I pushed it out of my mind. Now it's all back in full force.
I wish we could hug each other & have a good cry together.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 13:22:52 GMT -5
There is nothing you can do to control a lightning strike. We do have some control over access to guns. this is precisely it. we, us humans, are responsible for school shootings. we are NOT responsible for lightning strikes.
but I am wondering about those numbers. why are you limiting it to "school shootings"? we are not kids here.
how about "mass killings"? 387 were killed in 2018.
you numbers are off with lightning strikes, too. it is true that over 400 were struck by lightning last year, but only 43 died.
so, actually, your numbers are completely upside down. you are 10x more likely to get killed in a mass shooting than killed by lightning.
you can put your rod away, @x
First bolded; Straw man fallacy. I make no mention of "responsibility", only the comparison of the odds. Second bolded; Another straw man fallacy. Because the OP was about a school shooting, not whether we are kids or not. Might need to adjust your numbers. I don't wear a lightning rod at those strike numbers, 26,000 people a year die in simple falls, I need a walker. I only answer this because you tagged me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 13:30:00 GMT -5
I bet getting in a car and driving to the store, a much greater risk for death and injury, doesn't create the same angst either. It really isn't a big deal, statistically. You put a seatbelt on when you get in the car, don't you ? What is it about people that deliberately refuse to protect themselves, by disarming themselves ? Then they worry about the criminal element/mental aberrations, that have always existed throughout man's history. It's not the 'bigness of the deal', it's about acceptable risk. You can increase of decrease your risk by your own choices. Those who "never realize", really should. So your solution is to have everyone walking around with guns? Am I understanding that right? "So your solution" and the rest, is a directed premise about something I'm not talking about. You're not "understanding that right". You seem to be missing the point entirely. My point; What is acceptable risk, and the comparison of the odds.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 10, 2019 13:40:17 GMT -5
So your solution is to have everyone walking around with guns? Am I understanding that right? "So your solution" and the rest, is a directed premise about something I'm not talking about. You're not "understanding that right". You seem to be missing the point entirely. My point; What is acceptable risk, and the comparison of the odds. So then explain. What is an acceptable risk? How can people lower their risk? Perhaps I'm not missing the point and you just aren't very good at articulating.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 13:50:52 GMT -5
"So your solution" and the rest, is a directed premise about something I'm not talking about. You're not "understanding that right". You seem to be missing the point entirely. My point; What is acceptable risk, and the comparison of the odds. So then explain. What is an acceptable risk? How can people lower their risk? Perhaps I'm not missing the point and you just aren't very good at articulating. I'm excellent at articulating. I'm excellent at avoiding stereotyping also. ymam.proboards.com/post/3000125I can do this for you. Acceptable Risk definition ; Acceptable risk refers to the level of human and property loss that can be tolerated by an individual, household, group, organization, community, region, state, or nation.definitions.uslegal.com/a/acceptable-risk/I lower my risk by avoiding risky situations. School shootings isn't one I even think about.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 10, 2019 13:58:50 GMT -5
So then explain. What is an acceptable risk? How can people lower their risk? Perhaps I'm not missing the point and you just aren't very good at articulating. I'm excellent at articulating. I'm excellent at avoiding stereotyping also. ymam.proboards.com/post/3000125I can do this for you. Acceptable Risk definition ; Acceptable risk refers to the level of human and property loss that can be tolerated by an individual, household, group, organization, community, region, state, or nation.definitions.uslegal.com/a/acceptable-risk/I lower my risk by avoiding risky situations. School shootings isn't one I even think about. How very zen of you. Obviously those people who are affected shouldn't be upset by it either.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 10, 2019 13:59:49 GMT -5
So then explain. What is an acceptable risk? How can people lower their risk? Perhaps I'm not missing the point and you just aren't very good at articulating. I'm excellent at articulating. I'm excellent at avoiding stereotyping also. ymam.proboards.com/post/3000125I can do this for you. Acceptable Risk definition ; Acceptable risk refers to the level of human and property loss that can be tolerated by an individual, household, group, organization, community, region, state, or nation.definitions.uslegal.com/a/acceptable-risk/I lower my risk by avoiding risky situations. School shootings isn't one I even think about. So how can people who have been a victim of public shootings of any kind lower their risk? Your comment I originally responded to suggested that unarmed people are not minimizing risk. I ask you to explain and you post a link to me question and a definition you found on the internet. You still haven't explained your statement. In fact, you really never do. You throw out baseless or ridiculous statements all the time (just like another YM troll we know) and then when asked to explain said statement or to provide fact, you tell people that they are missing the point or tell them that their opinion is baseless. You never really explain your stance. Just like you're refusing to do now.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 10, 2019 14:02:40 GMT -5
I am not concerned at all,, You do realize your chances being shot by a cop is greater than being shot in one of the thing you are freaking over! I bet getting in a car and driving to the store, a much greater risk for death and injury, doesn't create the same angst either. It really isn't a big deal, statistically. You put a seatbelt on when you get in the car, don't you ? What is it about people that deliberately refuse to protect themselves, by disarming themselves ? Then they worry about the criminal element/mental aberrations, that have always existed throughout man's history. It's not the 'bigness of the deal', it's about acceptable risk. You can increase of decrease your risk by your own choices. Those who "never realize", really should. This is the quote I'm referring to if you need to see it again. People refusing to protect themselves by not being armed and then worrying about risks that have existed through history? So then are you saying that all people should be armed so as not to put themselves at risk? Please actually answer the question.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 10, 2019 14:07:18 GMT -5
to all the ones saying it's no big deal... first of all, read the last 2 sentences of my original post. And secondly, hope your wives/loved ones would be concerned if you were in the same situation even if you don't care enough to feel the same way about them in the situation.
For me, I actually love my husband enough to have been worried & scared. It's called being FUCKING HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS. Instead of being cold ass, don't give a shit, macho, toxic assholes who care more about their guns than their loved ones.
And fuck off while you're at it.
I hope their families don't feel a god damn thing for them if they are in that situation. And hopefully anyone they think they love has someone else to depend on, because if their grandchildren text them hiding, afraid and hearing gunshots I imagine the response will be that they should have been more prepared. Strangely enough I don't. I really want everyone to have someone that cares enough about them to be worried and scared in a situation like this. However, that does not take away from the fact that I consider these "don't give a shit, macho, toxic assholes" despicable idiots!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 14:07:20 GMT -5
I'm excellent at articulating. I'm excellent at avoiding stereotyping also. ymam.proboards.com/post/3000125I can do this for you. Acceptable Risk definition ; Acceptable risk refers to the level of human and property loss that can be tolerated by an individual, household, group, organization, community, region, state, or nation.definitions.uslegal.com/a/acceptable-risk/I lower my risk by avoiding risky situations. School shootings isn't one I even think about. How very zen of you. Obviously those people who are affected shouldn't be upset by it either. Straw man fallacy. (bolded) I didn't state any opinion on "affected" or "upset". I see nothing wrong in comforting one another. My point was acceptable risk and the comparison of the odds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 14:10:54 GMT -5
I bet getting in a car and driving to the store, a much greater risk for death and injury, doesn't create the same angst either. It really isn't a big deal, statistically. You put a seatbelt on when you get in the car, don't you ? What is it about people that deliberately refuse to protect themselves, by disarming themselves ? Then they worry about the criminal element/mental aberrations, that have always existed throughout man's history. It's not the 'bigness of the deal', it's about acceptable risk. You can increase of decrease your risk by your own choices. Those who "never realize", really should. This is the quote I'm referring to if you need to see it again. People refusing to protect themselves by not being armed and then worrying about risks that have existed through history? So then are you saying that all people should be armed so as not to put themselves at risk? Please actually answer the question. False dilemma fallacy. (bolded) My answer is, it's not the only answer. There are all kinds of things one can do to avoid risk. I only stated one.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 10, 2019 14:27:00 GMT -5
Let's increase the odd's,, who here have ever been involved in a mass shooting? I don't mean where a deranged family member or a disgruntled employee, takes out revenge!
Well I haven't, but children who lived IN MY HOME, were this week. At school, without their parents, and not with each other they huddled in corners of classrooms. So yeah, it's personal for me. Even more so for Steff, who didn't start this thread for political reasons, but because it was her husband. I thought you were just a troll, but you are so much worse. You apparently have lost any human ability to feel or show compassion or empathy. You only care about your cause. **Edited to add -- I shouldn't assume to say why Steff started this thread, but it wasn't a link to an article, about a cause she supports. It's a personal situation. I have no words for people who would twist that into their agenda. Then turn off the TV,, go hide in a dark closet,,. I am most certainly not going to hide anywhere. If the boogey man is out there, send him over,
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 10, 2019 14:28:15 GMT -5
This is the quote I'm referring to if you need to see it again. People refusing to protect themselves by not being armed and then worrying about risks that have existed through history? So then are you saying that all people should be armed so as not to put themselves at risk? Please actually answer the question. False dilemma fallacy. (bolded) My answer is, it's not the only answer. There are all kinds of things one can do to avoid risk. Such as? You're still not explaining. Or is it perhaps that you have absolutely no idea and just don't want to admit it?
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steff
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Post by steff on May 10, 2019 14:33:18 GMT -5
It's interesting that the conservatives here couldn't even muster up a "thoughts & prayers" for someone they know here. Instead it's all about defending guns. Not even an ounce of care or concern. Just their guns.
Says a lot about the current state of men in the conservative party.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 14:34:41 GMT -5
False dilemma fallacy. (bolded) My answer is, it's not the only answer. There are all kinds of things one can do to avoid risk. Such as? You're still not explaining. Or is it perhaps that you have absolutely no idea and just don't want to admit it?Quote; A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. A false dilemma can arise intentionally, when a fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice or outcome. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaNothing to explain.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 14:36:53 GMT -5
It's interesting that the conservatives here couldn't even muster up a "thoughts & prayers" for someone they know here. Instead it's all about defending guns. Not even an ounce of care or concern. Just their guns.
Says a lot about the current state of men in the conservative party.
Line #3 of my answer. ymam.proboards.com/post/3000236Too many slams on the thoughts and prayers thing in the recent past. I don't do that anymore.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 10, 2019 14:36:53 GMT -5
Well I haven't, but children who lived IN MY HOME, were this week. At school, without their parents, and not with each other they huddled in corners of classrooms. So yeah, it's personal for me. Even more so for Steff, who didn't start this thread for political reasons, but because it was her husband. I thought you were just a troll, but you are so much worse. You apparently have lost any human ability to feel or show compassion or empathy. You only care about your cause. **Edited to add -- I shouldn't assume to say why Steff started this thread, but it wasn't a link to an article, about a cause she supports. It's a personal situation. I have no words for people who would twist that into their agenda. Then turn off the TV,, go hide in a dark closet,,. I am most certainly not going to hide anywhere. If the boogey man is out there, send him over,
huh? Do you even know what post you're responding to? I'm not hiding. My kids are still going to school. Not that it's my call, but my friends kids will be back in the same building they were bunkered down in come Monday. So no, those of us actually living our lives and not trolling the internet are living our lives and facing the consequences.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 10, 2019 14:40:39 GMT -5
Other than be aware of my surroundings and knowing where the closest exits are, I have no idea how to take precautions for a mass shooting. I do recognize that it is not likely to happen, but if I happen to pull the unlucky straw, it doesn't matter how statistically rare of an event it is, it's gonna suck.
As far as the lighting and car accidents situations, I take the precautions I'm supposed to take.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 10, 2019 14:41:51 GMT -5
Such as? You're still not explaining. Or is it perhaps that you have absolutely no idea and just don't want to admit it?Quote; A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. A false dilemma can arise intentionally, when a fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice or outcome. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaNothing to explain. So then it is the part of my post that you bolded. You have no idea. Gotcha.
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steff
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Post by steff on May 10, 2019 14:41:58 GMT -5
It's interesting that the conservatives here couldn't even muster up a "thoughts & prayers" for someone they know here. Instead it's all about defending guns. Not even an ounce of care or concern. Just their guns.
Says a lot about the current state of men in the conservative party.
Line #3 of my answer. ymam.proboards.com/post/3000236Too many slams on the thoughts and prayers thing in the recent past. I don't do that anymore. so you don't see a problem, but can't be bothered. Pretty much like your position on gun safety. Doesn't affect you, so you have no sympathy.
Last 2 sentences of my original post are for people like you.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on May 10, 2019 14:45:07 GMT -5
False dilemma fallacy. (bolded) My answer is, it's not the only answer. There are all kinds of things one can do to avoid risk. Such as? You're still not explaining. Or is it perhaps that you have absolutely no idea and just don't want to admit it? This line of questioning is actually making me laugh out loud. I mean, it's incredibly frustrating for poor Andi trying to get a coherent thought out of this guy but honestly, I appreciate the chuckle this has given me. To summarize:
Diogenes: I am extremely articulate.
Andi: Please give me an example of things shooting victims should have done to protect themselves.
Diogenes: All kinds of stuff. Duh.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on May 10, 2019 14:47:37 GMT -5
It's interesting that the conservatives here couldn't even muster up a "thoughts & prayers" for someone they know here. Instead it's all about defending guns. Not even an ounce of care or concern. Just their guns.
Says a lot about the current state of men in the conservative party.
Right! Conservative: No one's taking my guns from me. I have rights! Others: So then everyone should be allowed to walk around with a gun? Conservative: That's not what I said. Others: Not allowing everyone to carry guns is called gun control. You know that, right? Conservative: You're missing the point. Others: Which is? <crickets>
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 10, 2019 14:51:37 GMT -5
Then turn off the TV,, go hide in a dark closet,,. I am most certainly not going to hide anywhere. If the boogey man is out there, send him over,
huh? Do you even know what post you're responding to? I'm not hiding. My kids are still going to school. Not that it's my call, but my friends kids will be back in the same building they were bunkered down in come Monday. So no, those of us actually living our lives and not trolling the internet are living our lives and facing the consequences. Here is a real simple solution,, if you don't like my posts, Block me or ignore me. There other here that are far better at insults than your trolling thing,, And they don't bother me,, When they get real insulting, it only means I made a Good point!
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