hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 10, 2019 15:36:39 GMT -5
I don't understand your arbitrary requirement that protesting must 'cost' something.
One of the best protests in the 60's were sit ins - that cost nothing but some time to go sit in the Dean's office, or in a diner. You get 100 people to go with you, though, and it's very effective.
Yep. Doesn't matter what it costs, matters what it does. Name me one protest that cost the protester absolutely nothing that "did" anything. No time, no money, no emotional outlay, no risk, no NOTHING.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 10, 2019 15:54:05 GMT -5
If your state changed the laws so that every man must get a vasectomy in puberty which can’t be reversed until they have a bank account sufficient to raise a child... would there be 2 sides to that fucking issue? Is there two two sides to owning people? Two sides to molesting children? This is about the marginalization and oppression of women. Making them second class citizens and controlling their lives. It is fucking fundamental. I will not let Gilead take root. You minimize the potential impact of this to your peril. The republic is crumbling already. Start making rights geographical and self selection is the slowest way this country ends. If there ARE 2 sides, then there ARE 2 sides. Whether you think there SHOULD be 2 sides is irrelevant, there ARE 2 sides both of significant proportion. I'm pretty sure there are 2 sides to molesting children, because I'm guessing someone out there supports it, it just happens to be a very uneven 2 sides in terms of population. I can't tell you if there would be 2 sides to hypotheticals, because that would depend on whether there ARE 2 sides. You don't want the issue decided by politics, your only answer seems to be "everyone should just agree I'm right because I say so" which is very 2019 Presidential of you, but isn't very practical for actual resolving issues. You determine whose rights are being infringed. In the child molestation case, the right of the children are being infringed by the child molester. Doesn't matter if the child molester thinks he has a right to have some fun, or thinks kids are old enough to give consent - the rights of the child to not be molested are greater than the right of the child molester to have some sexual pleasure. In the case of slavery, the rights of the slave to be free are greater than the right of the owner to have free labor. The constitution must always come down on the side of the person whose rights are being denied.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 10, 2019 15:55:47 GMT -5
Yep. Doesn't matter what it costs, matters what it does. Name me one protest that cost the protester absolutely nothing that "did" anything. No time, no money, no emotional outlay, no risk, no NOTHING. Now you're including emotional outlay as a "cost"? Really stretching this here.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 10, 2019 16:03:32 GMT -5
If there ARE 2 sides, then there ARE 2 sides. Whether you think there SHOULD be 2 sides is irrelevant, there ARE 2 sides both of significant proportion. I'm pretty sure there are 2 sides to molesting children, because I'm guessing someone out there supports it, it just happens to be a very uneven 2 sides in terms of population. I can't tell you if there would be 2 sides to hypotheticals, because that would depend on whether there ARE 2 sides. You don't want the issue decided by politics, your only answer seems to be "everyone should just agree I'm right because I say so" which is very 2019 Presidential of you, but isn't very practical for actual resolving issues. You determine whose rights are being infringed. In the child molestation case, the right of the children are being infringed by the child molester. Doesn't matter if the child molester thinks he has a right to have some fun, or thinks kids are old enough to give consent - the rights of the child to not be molested are greater than the right of the child molester to have some sexual pleasure. In the case of slavery, the rights of the slave to be free are greater than the right of the owner to have free labor. The constitution must always come down on the side of the person whose rights are being denied.
The question is...WHO decides whose rights are being infringed...if the statement was that it shouldn't be political (you're absolutely right in what the question IS, whose rights are being infringed). The President is political, the Congress is political, the Supreme Court is political in that they are charged with enforcing laws created in the political system. So in a situation where you have a significant portion of the population on each side...how do you decide it if not via politics? So when someone says it is ridiculous that it is decided through the political system...the obvious next question is "ok, then how do you decide it?". So far in this thread, the answer has simply been "I'm right so the opposing side to me shouldn't even exist"...which is all fun and nice as a personal mental exercise...but doesn't actually provide a real resolution to an issue with lots of people on each side both thinking they are upholding what is right. I mean we don't have some omniscient oracle that we all go to when it comes to human rights or large ethical issues. I struggle to think of any ways to resolve those kinds of large conflicts apart from "politics" or "war" historically. Obviously everyone hates "politics" when politics decides that something you feel strongly about is not the law...but that can simply mean "stupid political decision" rather than "this is stupid that it's decided via politics". I kind of assumed that "this is ridiculous to decide via politics" meant there was some alternative idea coming...so far it's only meant "everyone should just do what I tell them is ok" which isn't much of a plan for settling large disputes.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 10, 2019 16:09:26 GMT -5
Name me one protest that cost the protester absolutely nothing that "did" anything. No time, no money, no emotional outlay, no risk, no NOTHING. Now you're including emotional outlay as a "cost"? Really stretching this here. "now", or back when I made the initial statement that also included it? I intend it to mean something along the lines of creating a vulnerability, not simply "i'm sad". For example, if part of my protest is publishing a deeply emotional story/secret that relates to my protest, that certainly costs me something emotionally.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on May 10, 2019 18:27:53 GMT -5
Are you seriously trying to argue that child molestation is a nuanced discussion of whose rights are being infringed? Dude, please stop. You're just embarrassing yourself.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 11, 2019 23:13:57 GMT -5
Are you seriously trying to argue that child molestation is a nuanced discussion of whose rights are being infringed? Dude, please stop. You're just embarrassing yourself. Please try to keep up here, the legislation has nothing to do with child molestation, it's about abortion. You could at least pretend to understand anything that's happening. Alternatively, maybe you do understand the discussion and you're just obsessed with derailing it since any point you make has been quickly proven false, i'm sure that's embarrassing for you.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 11, 2019 23:34:32 GMT -5
lol. 2 days and that's what you came up with?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 12, 2019 1:02:03 GMT -5
I worked 65 really taxing hours this week, fell asleep on the couch around 8:30, and woke up to SNL’s Weekend Update. There was an awesome bit by Colin Jost about the Georgia law but damn if I can remember it now. Sorry.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 12, 2019 4:34:55 GMT -5
I worked 65 really taxing hours this week, fell asleep on the couch around 8:30, and woke up to SNL’s Weekend Update. There was an awesome bit by Colin Jost about the Georgia law but damn if I can remember it now. Sorry. Georgia is making Mother's Day mandatory.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 12, 2019 11:34:11 GMT -5
I worked 65 really taxing hours this week, fell asleep on the couch around 8:30, and woke up to SNL’s Weekend Update. There was an awesome bit by Colin Jost about the Georgia law but damn if I can remember it now. Sorry. Georgia is making Mother's Day mandatory. Thank God YOU were functioning on all cylinders. I am toast. Thank you, Thyme!!!
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on May 12, 2019 13:20:40 GMT -5
Are you seriously trying to argue that child molestation is a nuanced discussion of whose rights are being infringed? Dude, please stop. You're just embarrassing yourself. Please try to keep up here, the legislation has nothing to do with child molestation, it's about abortion. You could at least pretend to understand anything that's happening. Alternatively, maybe you do understand the discussion and you're just obsessed with derailing it since any point you make has been quickly proven false, i'm sure that's embarrassing for you. Oh, I understand perfectly. There has been someone on the thread trying to derail it from it's original point, but it sure as hell isn't me.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 12, 2019 14:15:30 GMT -5
WTF? Your insurance company will cover a "procedure", only if it's impossible to do, and there's no such thing. Brilliant. A bill recently introduced in Ohio in April would ban most private insurance coverage of abortion. It gained added attention this week when Jo Ingles of the Ohio radio station WOSU reported on an unusual provision: The bill allows insurance companies to cover “a procedure for an ectopic pregnancy that is intended to reimplant the fertilized ovum into the pregnant woman’s uterus.”
It is not possible to remove the egg from the fallopian tube and reimplant it into the uterus. If left untreated, an ectopic pregnancy can be fatal. www.vox.com/2019/5/10/18564436/ohio-abortion-bill-law-alabama-georgia-detailsIt's kind of like being covered for a head transplant, which doesn't exist.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 12, 2019 18:16:46 GMT -5
WTF? Your insurance company will cover a "procedure", only if it's impossible to do, and there's no such thing. Brilliant. A bill recently introduced in Ohio in April would ban most private insurance coverage of abortion. It gained added attention this week when Jo Ingles of the Ohio radio station WOSU reported on an unusual provision: The bill allows insurance companies to cover “a procedure for an ectopic pregnancy that is intended to reimplant the fertilized ovum into the pregnant woman’s uterus.”
It is not possible to remove the egg from the fallopian tube and reimplant it into the uterus. If left untreated, an ectopic pregnancy can be fatal. www.vox.com/2019/5/10/18564436/ohio-abortion-bill-law-alabama-georgia-detailsIt's kind of like being covered for a head transplant, which doesn't exist. In their zeal to prevent all abortions, the far right has written these laws without consulting doctors or lawyers, I think.
I read a review by a Georgia legal expert that said the GA law is poorly written and full of legal holes - he said it should never have been approved, and it won't stand up in court. I think this was a hail Mary attempt from Kemp to keep a campaign promise he made when he was desperate not to lose the governorship to a black woman.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 12, 2019 19:56:44 GMT -5
Yup, I've been hearing about the boycotts, too. If the boycott spreads to Georgia products, I wonder what they'll do with all of those peaches & pecans? But but, but, why are you punishing all the migrant worlers from Central America that pick these crops? What are they going to do if no one buys the product?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 12, 2019 20:00:39 GMT -5
The film industry in Atlanta is significant. Thereis is no way this is constitutional. Unless new interpretations prevail. I wouldn’t live in Georgia under this rule. I won’t even drive through. You can drive through the whole state on less than two tank fulls of gas and not spend another penny if you want to. If you drive around the state border you probably wind up with an over night stay somewhere and a lot more spent on gas....... Please redeem your YMAM card.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 12, 2019 20:01:20 GMT -5
But as long as Georgia's new law stands, I won't see anything that continues to film there. Honestly can't see how any woman would agree to work there. Off to research things i might otherwise buy that are manufactured in Gilead... Star by cancelling Netflix
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 12, 2019 20:56:50 GMT -5
?? Netflix is based in California.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 12, 2019 20:59:27 GMT -5
Netflix films some things in Georgia.
For instance, Insatiable. Alyssa Milano has said she won't return to the show next season if they don't move out of Georgia and this law is still in effect.
I will see what they decide to do. As with the others.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 12, 2019 21:04:03 GMT -5
Atlanta is huge in filming... more top 100 films have been filmed there than in either Cali or New York in recent years. We will see if it remains that way.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 13, 2019 7:40:37 GMT -5
Netflix films some things in Georgia. For instance, Insatiable. Alyssa Milano has said she won't return to the show next season if they don't move out of Georgia and this law is still in effect. I will see what they decide to do. As with the others. Well, Hoops, I guess there is one person willing to make a big personal sacrifice to push for change in the GA law.
There's a list of people who are saying they won't film in Georgia. Walking Dead, for instance. The film industry has created more than 10,000 jobs in Georgia. 9.5 billion in spending in the industry took place in GA in 2017.
Other film companies are being more low key, waiting to see if the law holds up in court (probably won't) - or donating money to the ACLU which is expected to challenge it.
www.newsweek.com/georgia-heartbeat-bill-faces-hollywood-boycott-producers-and-actors-while-1423042
I understand where they're coming from, the law is so egregious I doubt it will hold up in court.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 13, 2019 7:43:13 GMT -5
We are Archer fans, and I am debating skipping the next season because of this.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 13, 2019 8:22:03 GMT -5
?? Netflix is based in California. But films some series in Georgia. If someone is welling to boycott coca cola which is bottled all over the country outside of Georgia, Netflix must also be boycotted. We are leaving for Indiana tomorrow morning. Do I drive out of the way through Alabama to escape Georgia and tack on two hours travel time or take the soon to be empty I 75 right through downtown Atlanta?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 13, 2019 11:41:52 GMT -5
Netflix films some things in Georgia. For instance, Insatiable. Alyssa Milano has said she won't return to the show next season if they don't move out of Georgia and this law is still in effect. I will see what they decide to do. As with the others. Well, Hoops, I guess there is one person willing to make a big personal sacrifice to push for change in the GA law.
There's a list of people who are saying they won't film in Georgia. Walking Dead, for instance. The film industry has created more than 10,000 jobs in Georgia. 9.5 billion in spending in the industry took place in GA in 2017.
Other film companies are being more low key, waiting to see if the law holds up in court (probably won't) - or donating money to the ACLU which is expected to challenge it.
www.newsweek.com/georgia-heartbeat-bill-faces-hollywood-boycott-producers-and-actors-while-1423042
I understand where they're coming from, the law is so egregious I doubt it will hold up in court.
I dont' know if that's a BIG personal sacrifice, because I don't know what she makes for that show compared to her net worth. But it's willing to make a REAL sacrifice for sure. To me that's a lot more telling than film companies who will just choose to shoot somewhere else which is not really a big deal (i.e. Unlike Milano, they wouldn't actually be giving something up, they're just changing locations). She's also someone specifically that given her stance on other things (maybe not stance, but her outspoken nature on topics), probably CAN'T continue to film there and still keep her reputation. Her outspoken nature essentially forced her into taking a stance...I'll be curious in comparing stances taken by people who because of their public nature have to take a stance, vs people who could get away with not taking a stance but who still choose to. I don't want to diminish her sacrifice, because she could certainly lose some money in the deal...just given who she is I wonder if this is the path which prevents her from losing more money (i.e. how much would she lose if she didn't take this stance given her following based on social consciousness?). It's an unanswerable question, but financially I wonder if overall she loses out on more money by taking this stance, or if she actually chose to keep filming there. For clarity though, I don't think she's making this statement BECAUSE it results in her losing the least money, I think her motives are genuine, and as such, she's positioned herself as someone who could lose heavily if she suddenly went against her persona as someone who cares about these things and DIDN'T boycott. I'll also be curious to see where the boycotts land if we presume this will be thrown out in court. Does it matter if it gets thrown out in court? Are people still going to be willing to give money to a government that WANTS to pass this kind of legislation...DID pass this kind of legislation...and only don't have it in effect because of a court ruling. If a local shopkeeper throws up a nazi flag in front of his store, and you boycott, do you stop your boycott and return to his store just because the local government makes him take the flag down (or even if he chooses to do it on his own)? Are you boycotting the specific thing (flag/law), or are you boycotting the people who made the decision to put that thing forth and the idea behind it?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 13, 2019 11:44:29 GMT -5
?? Netflix is based in California. But films some series in Georgia. If someone is welling to boycott coca cola which is bottled all over the country outside of Georgia, Netflix must also be boycotted. We are leaving for Indiana tomorrow morning. Do I drive out of the way through Alabama to escape Georgia and tack on two hours travel time or take the soon to be empty I 75 right through downtown Atlanta? Is it ok to drive through Georgia if you aren't going to spend any money there? Maybe that's like the most anti-Georgia thing you can do. Pollute their air with your car emissions, use and abuse their roadways, and don't give them any money via fuel taxes in return. Throw a soda can out the window while you're at it and maybe that's a super effective boycott (whereas most people are boycotting simply giving them money, you can boycott giving them money while still using up their services)?
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on May 13, 2019 12:50:43 GMT -5
Do I drive out of the way through Alabama to escape Georgia and tack on two hours travel time or take the soon to be empty I 75 right through downtown Atlanta? Yes.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 14, 2019 8:33:40 GMT -5
Do I drive out of the way through Alabama to escape Georgia and tack on two hours travel time or take the soon to be empty I 75 right through downtown Atlanta? Ha ha ha "Soon to be empty". In Atlanta? I don't think people are that principled. I 75 will still have traffic for 18 months after people stop existing.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 14, 2019 14:27:46 GMT -5
I don't know if this thread got there yet, but it's not just Georgia. Texas and Ohio too. And like 3 or 4 more.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 14, 2019 14:56:38 GMT -5
Alabama.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 14, 2019 14:57:32 GMT -5
Do I drive out of the way through Alabama to escape Georgia and tack on two hours travel time or take the soon to be empty I 75 right through downtown Atlanta? Ha ha ha "Soon to be empty". In Atlanta? I don't think people are that principled. I 75 will still have traffic for 18 months after people stop existing.So I have now this mental picture of cockroaches pushing cars off I-75 long after we have become extinct. Our rallying cry needs to change from Marge Simpson's "think of the children" to the more appropriate "think of the cockroaches"
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