Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 23, 2019 16:47:28 GMT -5
Everyone have a great time moving your goal posts in your thoughts bout getting Trump. Not happening
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 23, 2019 16:51:01 GMT -5
So either you didn't read it. Or your comprehension skills are even worse than i realized before... because that is not even close to what this says... THat's the problem with trump supporters; they look through the news with Vaseline covered rose colored glasses.
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oped
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Post by oped on Mar 23, 2019 16:54:51 GMT -5
Moving what goal posts? No one even knows what is in this report or what has been passed to other agencies? Seriously, the only people commenting on this are you and your 'side'... everyone else seems to be waiting on the actual facts...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 23, 2019 17:10:27 GMT -5
Everyone have a great time moving your goal posts in your thoughts bout getting Trump. Not happening we learned from the best.
first it was that there was never a meeting. then it was that nothing campaign related was discussed. then it was that Trump knew nothing about it. then it was that there was no collusion.
forgive us all for not following the lie train. what we said was that Trump is the kind of man that not only knew about this but approved of it.
show us where we went wrong, oh remarkable clairvoyant one.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 23, 2019 17:16:10 GMT -5
So did you actually read that? Yes. Coming from them that is an almost 100% admission they were wrong without admitting to it by about 99% but I take it as a complete win from fake news and Jeff Bezos please spare us the bullshit talking points. WaPo is one of the most reliable journals in the US.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Mar 24, 2019 8:45:46 GMT -5
So did you actually read that? Yes. Coming from them that is an almost 100% admission they were wrong without admitting to it by about 99% but I take it as a complete win from fake news and Jeff Bezos You sound just like President Trump. I'm sure Putin is enjoying the American circus show he helped create. He probably is somewhat surprised it was that easy.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 24, 2019 9:03:39 GMT -5
Yes. Coming from them that is an almost 100% admission they were wrong without admitting to it by about 99% but I take it as a complete win from fake news and Jeff Bezos You sound just like President Trump. I'm sure Putin is enjoying the American circus show he helped create. He probably is somewhat surprised it was that easy. There is a lot of truth in what you stated. I too, imagine Putin thought the democrats were a lot smarter than they turned out to be and did not expect such a great shitshow from them. Democrats bought it hook line and sinker.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Mar 24, 2019 9:09:35 GMT -5
Correction: The Americans bought it hook line and sinker. Who do you think lost and continue to lose with the Russian meddling?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 24, 2019 9:14:00 GMT -5
Correction: The Americans bought it hook line and sinker. Who do you think lost and continue to lose with the Russian meddling? Since diehard Republicans and actual thoughtful Independents did not buy into any of this crap, just who do you think Putin directed the disinformation to? If you take more than five seconds to think about it, that is four seconds too long. As we all know Trump has been harder on Putin than Obama ever was. Putin is very happy creating gridlock in our Federal government to destroy us from the inside. Kruschev was much more direct in trying to destroy us. Putin learned a lot from this approach from the early cold war.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 24, 2019 11:08:20 GMT -5
You sound just like President Trump. I'm sure Putin is enjoying the American circus show he helped create. He probably is somewhat surprised it was that easy. There is a lot of truth in what you stated. I too, imagine Putin thought the democrats were a lot smarter than they turned out to be and did not expect such a great shitshow from them. Democrats Republicans bought it hook line and sinker. agree with one small correction.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on Mar 24, 2019 11:18:04 GMT -5
Correction: The Americans bought it hook line and sinker. Who do you think lost and continue to lose with the Russian meddling? Since diehard Republicans and actual thoughtful Independents did not buy into any of this crap, just who do you think Putin directed the disinformation to? If you take more than five seconds to think about it, that is four seconds too long. As we all know Trump has been harder on Putin than Obama ever was. Putin is very happy creating gridlock in our Federal government to destroy us from the inside. Kruschev was much more direct in trying to destroy us. Putin learned a lot from this approach from the early cold war. LOL, he looked really hard on Putin in Helsinki. President Trump fell over himself defending him....over his own intelligence agencies. Oh, Putin is smart all right. He had the look of pure satisfaction on his face during that press conference. "His denial was extremely strong and powerful" What did he think Putin was going to say? We really wanted American to elect a circus clown to spout "fake news" and "the press is the enemy of the people" to continue to divide the country.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 24, 2019 15:39:56 GMT -5
Sweet! Now can we look at things like President Trump's tweet on North Korean sanctions.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 24, 2019 15:51:03 GMT -5
We don’t “all know that Trump has been harder on Putin than Obama ever was” so can we get some commentary on that to back it up?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 24, 2019 16:13:07 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 24, 2019 17:54:37 GMT -5
Wooooo, Hooooo, NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION!!!! Told You SO!!!!!!!!!
After all these months of of the Libs crowing about the Russia collusion,,,
But did not exonerate Trump from obstruction of Justice. They left that in there just to give you libs a couple of straws to grasp for before your hopes completely drown!!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 24, 2019 18:01:00 GMT -5
Wooooo, Hooooo, NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION!!!! Told You SO!!!!!!!!!
how did you conclude that?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 24, 2019 18:02:46 GMT -5
Wooooo, Hooooo, NO RUSSIAN COLLUSION!!!! Told You SO!!!!!!!!!
how did you reach that conclusion? Glad to see you aboard this afternoon,
Celebrating the Mueller report of No Collusion?? Now that little thing is out of the way,, Trump can get some things done around here,,,
Wooooo Hooooo Trump is Making America Great Again!!!
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 24, 2019 18:13:38 GMT -5
Yeah, he can finish destroying America, sad day.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 24, 2019 18:28:52 GMT -5
how did you reach that conclusion? Glad to see you aboard this afternoon,
Celebrating the Mueller report of No Collusion??
nope. haven't seen it.
have you?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 24, 2019 18:52:09 GMT -5
I believe the news thus far is limited to: no additional federal indictments, no obstruction (as determined by AG Barr). All I can say is that the MSM had better hope either i) the report is heavily redacted before being released, or ii) the report isn't redacted before release and includes powerful circumstantial evidence (in the eyes of 2020 swing voters) of wrongdoing that for whatever reason didn't rise to the level of indictable offenses. Failing either of those, the MSM just shot the few lingering shreds of public faith they have left since 2001. As I've said since 2016, I personally expect there will be some skeletons in the report. Not related to Russian "collusion", but conflicts of interest, backroom business deals with Russian heavies, false testimony, graft, etc. Suffice it to say I'll be astonished if Pres. Trump, Mr. Kushner, and the Trump family all come out squeaky clean. And of course, NY state may still indict any or all of them--or at least try to. Assuming I'm correct, the MSM gets a slight reprieve. They still look hopelessly biased (the report outcome wasn't going to change this), but at least they won't look like tinfoil-wearing dark web conspiracy theorists.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 24, 2019 18:59:28 GMT -5
just to cut to the chase, I am glad that there was not sufficient grounds to charge Trump with criminal conspiracy. that would have been a complete disaster for the republic, imo. what do you do with a president that is subject to a foreign power? that is just so off the rails that it is not even something I want to entertain.
that having been said, I have my reasons for questioning Barr, but I am not going to question Mueller. if Mueller concluded that there was insufficient grounds to charge Trump, I am going to believe him. however, the way Barr couched the conclusions, I am going to wait for "other eyes" before I draw any final conclusions about the report. not necessarily my own. I am not a legal expert.
some people on this board MIGHT be qualified, but quite a few are not. I would hope that they would reserve judgment, but I suspect that won't be the case.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 24, 2019 19:10:16 GMT -5
Also, fair warning: If the full report is released and by some miracle Pres. Trump and his family all come out smelling like roses (excepting anything highly speculative), I pledge to write a bot to comb through the YMAM Mueller threads from the past three years, compile the 1,000 most hyperbolic "Here comes the whammy!" statements along with names and dates, and then craft them into a giant 4K "goose egg" infographic, with the egg made up of (just a fraction of the) 3+ years of insufferable Mittmentumism the statements represent. Republican board members can use it as a desktop background. It will stand as a somber reminder to all that neither wishful thinking, nor the fervent assurances of the MSM, nor the express certainty of hundreds of millions of people can ultimately change the nature of reality. But... let's not get ahead of ourselves. The war ain't over yet.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 24, 2019 19:24:33 GMT -5
since we all seem to be contemplating the meaning of this, here is something else to say:
the report didn't say there was no evidence of crime. nor did it say that Trump is off the hook for everything. even Barr didn't say that.
what he DID say is that he (and Rosenstein) did not BELIEVE that there was SUFFICIENT GROUNDS for INDICTMENT on those two crimes.
I am sure that in the coming days, we will here the usual suspects crowing about how Trump is "completely exonerated", that there is NO evidence, that he did NOTHING, etc. none of that is true. what Barr and Rosenstein have concluded is that there is just not enough to indict. and that is their call to make. but that doesn't mean that others won't make a different call.
I will remind the conservatives on the board that myself and many others felt that there would be insufficient evidence to charge Clinton with any crime regarding Benghazi or anything else. and many of you continue to assert that this does NOT mean that there were no crimes committed, and that is TRUE. but the way our system of justice works, if there is insufficient grounds, it is pretty much the same as no grounds, except in the eyes of the haters.
it does ALSO not mean that Trump won't be guilty of profiting from the presidency, which would put him in violation of the emoluments cause. it does not mean that he didn't engage in Tax Fraud, which is I believe how they finally ended up getting Al Capone. and there are probably a dozen other hurdles he is going to have to clear. here is my final wish:
may ALL of these charges come to the attention of someone as thorough and well meaning as I conclude Mueller is.
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 24, 2019 19:35:02 GMT -5
There is a lot of truth in what you stated. I too, imagine Putin thought the democrats were a lot smarter than they turned out to be and did not expect such a great shitshow from them. Democrats Republicans bought it hook line and sinker. agree with one small correction. How can republicans not see it. The russian ads were not aimed at democratic party members. The werec designed to get republicans riled up to vote for trump in the fly over states.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 24, 2019 19:43:08 GMT -5
I believe the news thus far is limited to: no additional federal indictments, no obstruction (as determined by AG Barr). All I can say is that the MSM had better hope either i) the report is heavily redacted before being released, or ii) the report isn't redacted before release and includes powerful circumstantial evidence (in the eyes of 2020 swing voters) of wrongdoing that for whatever reason didn't rise to the level of indictable offenses. Failing either of those, the MSM just shot the few lingering shreds of public faith they have left since 2001. As I've said since 2016, I personally expect there will be some skeletons in the report. Not related to Russian "collusion", but conflicts of interest, backroom business deals with Russian heavies, false testimony, graft, etc. Suffice it to say I'll be astonished if Pres. Trump, Mr. Kushner, and the Trump family all come out squeaky clean. And of course, NY state may still indict any or all of them--or at least try to. Assuming I'm correct, the MSM gets a slight reprieve. They still look hopelessly biased (the report outcome wasn't going to change this), but at least they won't look like tinfoil-wearing dark web conspiracy theorists. Reread the Obstruction of Justice section in the summary letter in the link I posted. trump has not been cleared of obstruction of justice. No determination of guilt or innocence was made by Mueller and his team and therefore, Barr.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 24, 2019 19:59:19 GMT -5
I believe the news thus far is limited to: no additional federal indictments, no obstruction (as determined by AG Barr). All I can say is that the MSM had better hope either i) the report is heavily redacted before being released, or ii) the report isn't redacted before release and includes powerful circumstantial evidence (in the eyes of 2020 swing voters) of wrongdoing that for whatever reason didn't rise to the level of indictable offenses. Failing either of those, the MSM just shot the few lingering shreds of public faith they have left since 2001. As I've said since 2016, I personally expect there will be some skeletons in the report. Not related to Russian "collusion", but conflicts of interest, backroom business deals with Russian heavies, false testimony, graft, etc. Suffice it to say I'll be astonished if Pres. Trump, Mr. Kushner, and the Trump family all come out squeaky clean. And of course, NY state may still indict any or all of them--or at least try to. Assuming I'm correct, the MSM gets a slight reprieve. They still look hopelessly biased (the report outcome wasn't going to change this), but at least they won't look like tinfoil-wearing dark web conspiracy theorists. Reread the Obstruction of Justice section in the summary letter in the link I posted. trump has not been cleared of obstruction of justice. No determination of guilt or innocence was made by Mueller and his team and therefore, Barr. this might be a good time to point out AGAIN that Mueller has explicitly stated, ON THE RECORD, that he did not believe that it was within his purview (nor, likely, within any other jurisdiction) to indict Trump for ANYTHING while he is president.
one could easily conclude that "insufficient grounds" is almost meaningless in this context. I am actually taking a more conservative position than that, however.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 24, 2019 20:00:15 GMT -5
agree with one small correction. How can republicans not see it. The russian ads were not aimed at democratic party members. The werec designed to get republicans riled up to vote for trump in the fly over states. correct. there was nothing for Democrats to BUY, because they were not being SOLD.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 24, 2019 20:44:47 GMT -5
I believe the news thus far is limited to: no additional federal indictments, no obstruction (as determined by AG Barr). All I can say is that the MSM had better hope either i) the report is heavily redacted before being released, or ii) the report isn't redacted before release and includes powerful circumstantial evidence (in the eyes of 2020 swing voters) of wrongdoing that for whatever reason didn't rise to the level of indictable offenses. Failing either of those, the MSM just shot the few lingering shreds of public faith they have left since 2001. As I've said since 2016, I personally expect there will be some skeletons in the report. Not related to Russian "collusion", but conflicts of interest, backroom business deals with Russian heavies, false testimony, graft, etc. Suffice it to say I'll be astonished if Pres. Trump, Mr. Kushner, and the Trump family all come out squeaky clean. And of course, NY state may still indict any or all of them--or at least try to. Assuming I'm correct, the MSM gets a slight reprieve. They still look hopelessly biased (the report outcome wasn't going to change this), but at least they won't look like tinfoil-wearing dark web conspiracy theorists. Reread the Obstruction of Justice section in the summary letter in the link I posted. trump has not been cleared of obstruction of justice. No determination of guilt or innocence was made by Mueller and his team and therefore, Barr. ibid.: Mr. Mueller’s team drew no conclusions about whether Mr. Trump illegally obstructed justice, Mr. Barr said, so he made his own decision. The attorney general and his deputy, Rod J. Rosenstein, determined that the special counsel’s investigators had insufficient evidence to establish that the president committed that offense. This sounds to me like A.G. Barr et al. clearing Pres. Trump of obstruction. If by "clearing" you mean "determined to be innocent", then neither Mr. Mueller nor Mr. Barr has cleared Pres. Trump... of anything. The report and Mr. Barr's follow-up letter are equally clear on that. "Insufficient evidence to establish...", etc. Not necessarily "Zero evidence of any indictable offense was found." So I agree with you: the war ain't over yet.
Presently the only reason the MSM has egg on its face is because they pushed the idea of Pres. Trump being perp-walked out of the White House for so long and with such fanatical certainty that literally anything less seems like a nonevent by comparison. They bet the horse, the farm, the kids' college fund, the company payroll, and grandma's china collection on indictments, impeachment, and Pres. Trump not serving a full term, and the way Washington insiders are behaving, they've almost surely lost that bet. If the MSM had been calm, rational, and objective since November 2016, Trump supporters would presently be nervously awaiting the publication of the report, not dancing in the streets. Architects of their own doom. I hope they enjoyed their ratings bump.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 24, 2019 22:17:38 GMT -5
Also, fair warning: If the full report is released and by some miracle Pres. Trump and his family all come out smelling like roses (excepting anything highly speculative), I pledge to write a bot to comb through the YMAM Mueller threads from the past three years, compile the 1,000 most hyperbolic "Here comes the whammy!" statements along with names and dates, and then craft them into a giant 4K "goose egg" infographic, with the egg made up of (just a fraction of the) 3+ years of insufferable Mittmentumism the statements represent. Republican board members can use it as a desktop background. It will stand as a somber reminder to all that neither wishful thinking, nor the fervent assurances of the MSM, nor the express certainty of hundreds of millions of people can ultimately change the nature of reality. But... let's not get ahead of ourselves. The war ain't over yet. So, how is that different from what you usually do? Not much of a pledge.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Mar 24, 2019 23:25:16 GMT -5
I believe the news thus far is limited to: no additional federal indictments, no obstruction (as determined by AG Barr). All I can say is that the MSM had better hope either i) the report is heavily redacted before being released, or ii) the report isn't redacted before release and includes powerful circumstantial evidence (in the eyes of 2020 swing voters) of wrongdoing that for whatever reason didn't rise to the level of indictable offenses. Failing either of those, the MSM just shot the few lingering shreds of public faith they have left since 2001. As I've said since 2016, I personally expect there will be some skeletons in the report. Not related to Russian "collusion", but conflicts of interest, backroom business deals with Russian heavies, false testimony, graft, etc. Suffice it to say I'll be astonished if Pres. Trump, Mr. Kushner, and the Trump family all come out squeaky clean. And of course, NY state may still indict any or all of them--or at least try to. Assuming I'm correct, the MSM gets a slight reprieve. They still look hopelessly biased (the report outcome wasn't going to change this), but at least they won't look like tinfoil-wearing dark web conspiracy theorists. Reread the Obstruction of Justice section in the summary letter in the link I posted. trump has not been cleared of obstruction of justice. No determination of guilt or innocence was made by Mueller and his team and therefore, Barr. Muller had nearly 2 years with a team of people who were mostly rabid Hillary Clinton supporters. And he not only didn't prove guilt, he couldn't come up with enough evidence for an indictment. While I agree with you that failing to indict is not the same as proving innocence, may I remind you that we do not live in a country where people are guilty until proven innocent. Hillary did not in any way shape or form prove that none of the emails she deleted from her private server did not contain some kind of quid pro quo involving the tens of millions of dollars that the Clinton Foundation collected from Russians and other bad actors. Frankly, being able to cover her tracks is the most sensible reason why someone who is not tech save would bother having a private server. And since the server was wiped, there is no way to prove that some bad actor doesn't have leverage on her. Had she won the election, would you be ok with her being subjected to never ending special council investigations, because she could not prove her innocence?
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