Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 17, 2019 15:56:50 GMT -5
I'm scarier than that. I'm staying informed supporting people that are like minded. Your privileges are being eroded by people like me mwahahahaha Years ago (2014), when I first heard about "white privilege", people were using it to describe de facto exemptions for whites from alleged systemic injustices. For example, whites weren't as likely to be pulled over and questioned by police while driving expensive cars. People with traditionally 'white names' were less likely to have their resumes summarily tossed from piles of job applications. Etc. At the time, my two grievances were that an exemption from an unjust bias isn't a privilege (i.e. the term "white privilege" is a misnomer), and that nobody could provide insights on how an average Joe like me could make the world a fairer place aside from striving to be colourblind, which I already did. As the years rolled by, WP packed on baggage. In 2015, a thread pops up debating whether PB&J sandwiches are WP. Then it was WP to use the word 'bossy'. Then (rather humorously) it was WP to want to ban the word 'bossy'. Then the Academy Awards were WP. Then opposition to the public use of the 'N' word (by everyone, including blacks) was WP. Then mentioning white poverty ("as if whites have it so bad"). Since none of these things had anything to do with systemic injustice, I quickly lost any sense of the term.
By early 2018, it seemed to be a catch-all for opposition to the idea that injustices (both real and perceived) ought to be combated by perpetrating injustices of the opposite parity. This included opposition to reparations, hiring quotas, black-only schools, etc. By late 2018, not only did the proposed "solutions" for WP include broadening of such discriminatory initiatives, they began targeting the exemptions ("privileges") of whites from unjust biases. It wasn't enough that you supported putting more black people into positions of power, you had to support removing white people from power. Not only were you to assume the best of black suspects/witnesses in he-said-she-said police shootings, you were to assume the worst of white police officers/witnesses. And here we are in 2019, where WP appears to have expanded yet again to include wearing campaign hats (I still have no idea what specific privilege is being exercised) and arguing that wearing such hats is neither inherently racist nor a privilege. I have no use for an ideology whose "solution" to systemic injustice (injustice being a form of evil) is to perpetrate a similar injustice (more evil) against another group of people, many of whom have nothing to do with the systemic injustice. You don't combat prejudice with prejudice, demonizing with demonizing, evil with evil. If you want to erode my ability to be hired without worrying about my name, or to visit statues of Canadian statesmen, or to walk down the street wearing an "I (heart) Canada" cap without people presuming I'm the scum of the Earth, that's your prerogative. Whatever your intentions, it's not going to lead to the happier, more peaceable world you're hoping for.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 17, 2019 16:17:14 GMT -5
That was the State of Colorado that said that, after I took their tests. But obviously not smart enough to stay off these message board!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 17, 2019 17:06:51 GMT -5
Here is exactly what says, Make America Great Again,, Exactly that! No where does it say Make American a Racist Nation
Reading difficulty?? or just a comprehension problem??
when was America great?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 17, 2019 17:12:18 GMT -5
I can't say that I include again, in my belief,, it is more of,, "Make America Great". I don't necessarily. need the again attached to it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 17, 2019 17:17:59 GMT -5
I can't say that I include again, in my belief,, it is more of,, "Make America Great". I don't necessarily. need the again attached to it. i wish Trump didn't, either.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 17, 2019 17:34:52 GMT -5
I can't say that I include again, in my belief,, it is more of,, "Make America Great". I don't necessarily. need the again attached to it. ...and yet, you keep repeating "Make America Great Again". Again? That means it's not great now. Why do you hate America? And when was it great?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 17, 2019 17:49:56 GMT -5
I can't say that I include again, in my belief,, it is more of,, "Make America Great". I don't necessarily. need the again attached to it. ...and yet, you keep repeating "Make America Great Again". Again? That means it's not great now. Why do you hate America? And when was it great? You don't have to hate America to believe it's not great. OldCoyote: Weltz does have a point. "Make America Great Again" clearly implies America was great at one point and lost that greatness. This is consistent with Pres. Trump's usage of the slogan and his personal belief, which happens to be correct in this case. It's incumbent on you, therefore, to ask when and why America lost its greatness, and how Pres. Trump plans to restore it.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 17, 2019 18:08:02 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion that would be an example of one of your long winded distortions of my position. The debate (with me) is not about their right to wear the hat. They can wear it. And they can get called out on their passive aggressiveness when they do. That is the loss of privilege here. There was a time when white guys could say "I didn't mean anything by it" and "It was just a joke" and everyone had to pretend to believe them. Those days are gone. I'm not after a more peaceable world. If I was I would just let things stand and not fight about it. I'm after a more just world. And that makes me happy.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 17, 2019 18:19:52 GMT -5
Ok, If I had something to do with it which I don't. I would say Let trump have some leeway, Don't instantly decide to oppose anything and everything that Trump does, which is what happens now! If it does seem to be working it can always be changed. An example about making America Great, When some of Obama's policies were changed,, One That I was glad to see returning some of the land back to the public,, that Obama deem preserves,,
Just because some Indian Tribe declares thousands of acres Sacred lands, only to keep the "White" man off does not make it so. At certain point People were glad to be American,, I am damned proud to be an American,, Look at the posts here ,, a lot are not that happy or proud of being Americans!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 17, 2019 18:22:19 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion that would be an example of one of your long winded distortions of my position. The debate (with me) is not about their right to wear the hat. They can wear it. And they can get called out on their passive aggressiveness when they do. That is the loss of privilege here. There was a time when white guys could say "I didn't mean anything by it" and "It was just a joke" and everyone had to pretend to believe them. Those days are gone. I'm not after a more peaceable world. If I was I would just let things stand and not fight about it. I'm after a more just world. And that makes me happy. Why are you as a Canadian concerned about whether or not what the reason would be that I might wear an NRA, Trump,or MAGA cap?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 17, 2019 18:27:28 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion that would be an example of one of your long winded distortions of my position. The debate (with me) is not about their right to wear the hat. They can wear it. And they can get called out on their passive aggressiveness when they do. That is the loss of privilege here. There was a time when white guys could say "I didn't mean anything by it" and "It was just a joke" and everyone had to pretend to believe them. Those days are gone. I'm not after a more peaceable world. If I was I would just let things stand and not fight about it. I'm after a more just world. And that makes me happy. Why are you as a Canadian concerned about whether or not what the reason would be that I might wear an NRA, Trump,or MAGA cap? I'd love to talk about the Canadian version of those things but then I'd be stuck only ever talking to Virgil. You Americans don't participate much in talks about other countries. And the point is transferable. We have similar issues here. White privilege isn't just an American phenomenon.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 17, 2019 18:37:14 GMT -5
I don't hear the Canadians complaining about people wearing MAGA hats In Canada.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 17, 2019 18:39:37 GMT -5
I don't hear the Canadians complaining about people wearing MAGA hats In Canada. I've never seen one in Canada.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 17, 2019 18:42:24 GMT -5
If you really want to improve relations with the U.S.
Get the Canadian with Ontario plates out of the center lane here on the 101,, doing 40 MPH when everyone else is doing 75 or 80 MPH!
Oh wait what is 40 in Kilometers per Hour?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 17, 2019 19:15:54 GMT -5
If you really want to improve relations with the U.S.
Get the Canadian with Ontario plates out of the center lane here on the 101,, doing 40 MPH when everyone else is doing 75 or 80 MPH!
Oh wait what is 40 in Kilometers per Hour? You're "smart enough to be a doctor". You figure it out.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 17, 2019 19:40:26 GMT -5
And Virgil Showlion could you please site all your sources for post #240 TYIA
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 17, 2019 19:59:49 GMT -5
Ok, If I had something to do with it which I don't. I would say Let trump have some leeway, Don't instantly decide to oppose anything and everything that Trump does, which is what happens now! If it does seem to be working it can always be changed. An example about making America Great, When some of Obama's policies were changed,, One That I was glad to see returning some of the land back to the public,, that Obama deem preserves,,
Just because some Indian Tribe declares thousands of acres Sacred lands, only to keep the "White" man off does not make it so. At certain point People were glad to be American,, I am damned proud to be an American,, Look at the posts here ,, a lot are not that happy or proud of being Americans!
At least in my case, AS, I save my pride for my accomplishments. The place of my birth is not something I consider an accomplishment. It's more a luck-o'-the-draw type thing.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 17, 2019 21:17:11 GMT -5
The debate (with me) is not about their right to wear the hat. They can wear it. And they can get called out on their passive aggressiveness when they do. This is quintessential prejudice and stereotyping. You're celebrating the genesis of a new prejudice and stereotype. There was a time when white guys could say "I didn't mean anything by it" and "It was just a joke" and everyone had to pretend to believe them. Those days are gone. What does this have to do with wearing hats? You expect Mr. Sandmann et al. will take off their hats at some point and claim, "Oop. It was all a joke. We don't really support Pres. Trump."? Regardless, your attitude here is abhorrent. Not only are you celebrating prejudice and stereotyping, you're saying that when it's a white man who offends you, if he realizes he's offended you and he makes a conciliatory gesture, you're going to summarily conclude he's lying and rebuff his apology. I'm not after a more peaceable world. If I was I would just let things stand and not fight about it. I'm after a more just world. And that makes me happy. You're defining "just" as a world where everybody is prejudged, stereotyped, unforgiven, and resented by his neighbour. And that makes you "happy"? Because we can all hate each other equally? Quid pro quo. Either provide evidence for my outstanding queries (in particular, Reply #201) or admit you can't procure any. Upon receipt, I'll take the time to compile the links supporting Reply #240. I did, after all, ask you first--and several days ago.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 17, 2019 21:32:31 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion that would be an example of one of your long winded distortions of my position. The debate (with me) is... I forgot to include in the last post: Note that little in #240 is specifically ascribed to you. Most of what I describe is from discussions that took place while you weren't even here on YMAM. I'm just adding your positions in this thread to the big, amorphous blob that is "white privilege". Hence you feature only in paragraph 5 and later.
While it wouldn't shock me if parts of #240 turned out to accurately characterize your views on WP, I can't prove this, and I'm not asserting it here. I don't want others making the same assumption and concluding I'm being unfair.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 18, 2019 14:13:37 GMT -5
So we've been through normal debate, ridicule, misrepresentation and now you're pretending not to understand me. (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that your not stupid). Is there a set number of stages to this? I'm suspecting it will go on forever. Like I said a long time ago, I don't expect you to admit to it. I'm done. Again
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 18, 2019 14:18:48 GMT -5
I don't hear the Canadians complaining about people wearing MAGA hats In Canada. I've never seen one in Canada. I have. Hockey dads. I apologize for them.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 18, 2019 14:29:51 GMT -5
So we've been through normal debate, ridicule, misrepresentation and now you're pretending not to understand me. (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that your not stupid). Is there a set number of stages to this? I'm suspecting it will go on forever. Like I said a long time ago, I don't expect you to admit to it. I'm done. Again The only thread in the 10 most recent P/CE threads not about Beto O'Rourke (1) or you-know-who (9).
Variety is the spice of life. Maybe we'll even agree on something.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 18, 2019 15:14:52 GMT -5
I've never seen one in Canada. I have. Hockey dads. I apologize for them. This is Quebec....the province of dairy farmers. Trump is LOATHED here. I guess that's why I've never seen one. I do know one Trump supporter, though. He fried his brain doing heavy duty drugs in the Amazon, with a shaman. He can barely put one foot in front of the other now.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 18, 2019 15:24:59 GMT -5
So we've been through normal debate, ridicule, misrepresentation and now you're pretending not to understand me. (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that your not stupid). Is there a set number of stages to this? I'm suspecting it will go on forever. Like I said a long time ago, I don't expect you to admit to it. I'm done. Again The only thread in the 10 most recent P/CE threads not about Beto O'Rourke (1) or you-know-who (9).
Variety is the spice of life. Maybe we'll even agree on something. I can try posting something. Hey, it worked once. You both liked the same post!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 18, 2019 16:58:06 GMT -5
I have. Hockey dads. I apologize for them. This is Quebec....the province of dairy farmers. Trump is LOATHED here. I guess that's why I've never seen one. I do know one Trump supporter, though. He fried his brain doing heavy duty drugs in the Amazon, with a shaman. He can barely put one foot in front of the other now. The US hockey dads get set loose in Canada on a regular basis.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 18, 2019 17:01:08 GMT -5
I have. Hockey dads. I apologize for them. This is Quebec....the province of dairy farmers. Trump is LOATHED here. I guess that's why I've never seen one. I do know one Trump supporter, though. He fried his brain doing heavy duty drugs in the Amazon, with a shaman. He can barely put one foot in front of the other now.Almost the same as Trump, trying to waddle his... (cough) 239 lbs. (cough, cough) to his waiting ride.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 18, 2019 17:04:41 GMT -5
This is Quebec....the province of dairy farmers. Trump is LOATHED here. I guess that's why I've never seen one. I do know one Trump supporter, though. He fried his brain doing heavy duty drugs in the Amazon, with a shaman. He can barely put one foot in front of the other now. The US hockey dads get set loose in Canada on a regular basis. I haven't been to a hockey game in years.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 19, 2019 9:26:32 GMT -5
Here is the problem. You see the MAGA hat as racist and just another white sheet on our head. Trump supporters and myself see it as making America an economic as well as political powerhouse again, placing us back at the top of world leadership in all areas of economic output, production and economic achievement for the greater good of all of our citizens. No more apology tours around the world. you didn't see it that way during the primary. you seem to have become a convert since then. You and I go way back to the MSN board, and went round and round about Bush and the elections......I told you then the pendulum would swing to the Democrats in 2008. Now the pendulum has swung back to the conservative wing for eight years. Your time will come in 2024. I was correct then, and am correct now
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 19, 2019 13:40:06 GMT -5
you didn't see it that way during the primary. you seem to have become a convert since then. You and I go way back to the MSN board, and went round and round about Bush and the elections......I told you then the pendulum would swing to the Democrats in 2008. Now the pendulum has swung back to the conservative wing for eight years. Your time will come in 2024. I was correct then, and am correct now red herring. I was talking about 2016. you know, when you figured HC would win, and you were a Kasich guy?
I don't forget much, VB.
edit: for the record, my time will come in 2020. I already stated that, and why.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 20, 2019 10:43:07 GMT -5
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