andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 11, 2019 9:18:58 GMT -5
Yes, yes and they were looking for trouble. First they could have not been there in the first place. The Native Americans were doing their demonstration there at that time. Not for a second do I believe that gathering place was randomly chosen. They also could have left when the Hebrew guys started acting up. And finally he could have moved aside when the Drummer came up to him. They were not innocent children overwhelmed by the adults. They were making the point that they are tougher. Why are you blaming them when the old guy went up to them and started banging a drum a foot away? Why should they have to leave? If the kid in the hat was a woman and then old guy banged his drum at her, would you still blame her? And what about how the old guy completely fabricated what happened? I saw the full video, the kid did not lie about what happened. But old, miserable assholes can’t stand him because he is a conservative kid. There is zero wrong with that hat. If I was a person that wore hats, I would wear one. IIRC, the kids weren't supposed to be there anyway. They were supposed to be waiting for their bus at a different location. Had they been following instructions, none of this would have happened.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 11, 2019 9:29:43 GMT -5
OK I will bite,, Why they shouldn't have been there? Because there was a Native American demonstration going on and their presence was a huge provocation, they ensured that by wearing the hats. They did not need to wait for their bus right there. That was the bus stop!
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 10:13:26 GMT -5
Because there was a Native American demonstration going on and their presence was a huge provocation, they ensured that by wearing the hats. They did not need to wait for their bus right there. That was the bus stop! They were travelling on school buses, the buses did not need to pick them up there. Look, I'm not looking for you to blame the kids for the whole incident. Just admit that they were not innocent bystanders with pure motives and intentions.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 11, 2019 10:45:14 GMT -5
Not quite true. The "old guy" had a permit to demonstrate in that area. The kids didn't. Neither, as far as I can learn, did the religious group. in Washington on Jan. 18 to attend an anti-abortion March for Life rally, were waiting for their bus! they were in teh middle of a crowd in front of the Lincoln Memorial. That isn't where the bus stop is. I've been there. It's about 300 yards away. They weren't that far from the stop, but they weren't sitting at the bus stop and minding their own business either.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 11, 2019 12:46:08 GMT -5
Weren't you one of the ones praising the tot armies marching in the street last year? Or did that happen before you got back? Either way, perhaps we can all agree that tot armies and tot activism in general is more trouble than it's worth.
Before I got back. I don' think I've ever supported tot armies but I'm not totally sure what you mean by that. I have nothing against youth protesting, like the Florida kids. Or even these young men. Just own up to the fact that is what you were doing. I still won't agree with them, but I will have a hell of a lot more respect. "They shouldn't have been there" and "I have nothing against youth protesting... Just own up to the fact that is what you were doing" are conflicting assessments. If the students weren't there protesting, clearly they wouldn't be the aggressors. If they were there protesting (spontaneously, as a kind of counter-protest), and they shouldn't have been, clearly you have an issue with their protesting.
I haven't seen the footage nor do I care to. The aggressors are the group that first physically approaches the other, whether the students or the Native Americans. Words are words, drums are drums, hats are hats, but one group converging on another is aggression. If both groups converged, both were aggressors. If Mr. Sandmann was among the aggressors, I agree with your first assessment: he shouldn't have been there. However, I'd never say "I have nothing against youth protesting." I have a great deal against it. The last thing our society needs is its least experienced and most easily manipulated demographic--some 5+ years short of the ability to grant legal consent--marching in the streets, drunk on power and self-importance, demanding governments accede to their will, even if there is no prohibition against it.
As for the "tot army", it refers to the "movement" founded by David Hogg et. al in early 2018. Juveniles "getting angry", "getting in people's faces", "refusing to take it [in this case, inaction on gun control] anymore", marching on the White House, etc. The kind of self-righteous theatrics the MSM calls "youth activism" and "youth empowerment" if it happens to like the message, and "harassment" and "puppeteering" if it doesn't.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 13:17:28 GMT -5
No they aren't. If they weren't protesting they shouldn't have been there. Since they were protesting they don't get to claim to be innocent victims. The hats and "fight songs" were provocative and they intended them to be. Own up to it.
I'm okay with that. I'm even okay with the MAGA hats youth doing it. Just don't try to tell me that's not what you were doing when it is obvious you were.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 11, 2019 14:35:22 GMT -5
Even if WaPo was wrong, what are the kid's damages? He has to prove some kind of immediate harm. Was he kicked out of school? College acceptance rescinded? Job denied? I have no idea. Well half the Liberal world calls him an entitled little "prick" Channeling the conservative statements made many times before on this on this board in relation to the #metoo movement: "so what? The poor little special snowflake needs a safe place?"
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 11, 2019 14:48:51 GMT -5
No they aren't. If they weren't protesting they shouldn't have been there. Since they were protesting they don't get to claim to be innocent victims. The hats and "fight songs" were provocative and they intended them to be. Own up to it. Ah. An if...then...else. Gotcha. I agree save for the fact that IMO they had no business protesting, unconditionally. At least their youthful activism bore plentiful fruit, bringing legions of formerly anti-Trump, anti-MAGA Americans into the pro-Trump, pro-MAGA fold without stirring up animosity and deepening political rifts even slightly. The transformative power of protests never ceases to amaze.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 16:25:30 GMT -5
No they aren't. If they weren't protesting they shouldn't have been there. Since they were protesting they don't get to claim to be innocent victims. The hats and "fight songs" were provocative and they intended them to be. Own up to it. Ah. An if...then...else. Gotcha. I agree save for the fact that IMO they had no business protesting, unconditionally. At least their youthful activism bore plentiful fruit, bringing legions of formerly anti-Trump, anti-MAGA Americans into the pro-Trump, pro-MAGA fold without stirring up animosity and deepening political rifts even slightly. The transformative power of protests never ceases to amaze.
Sarcasm I presume. Protests are a lot like the debates on here. They don't change anyone's minds but they let the people that you agree with know you're out there.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 16:55:42 GMT -5
Why are you blaming them when the old guy went up to them and started banging a drum a foot away? Why should they have to leave? If the kid in the hat was a woman and then old guy banged his drum at her, would you still blame her? And what about how the old guy completely fabricated what happened? I saw the full video, the kid did not lie about what happened. But old, miserable assholes can’t stand him because he is a conservative kid. There is zero wrong with that hat. If I was a person that wore hats, I would wear one. IIRC, the kids weren't supposed to be there anyway. They were supposed to be waiting for their bus at a different location. Had they been following instructions, none of this would have happened. Had she not worn such slutty clothes, she never would have been raped...why can't one liberal say "yes, we were wrong when we just to conclusions based on a clipped video, the old guy marched up to them to start shit, not the other way around". Instead, they are to be blamed because of waiting for a bus in a different location?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 17:05:53 GMT -5
IIRC, the kids weren't supposed to be there anyway. They were supposed to be waiting for their bus at a different location. Had they been following instructions, none of this would have happened. Had she not worn such slutty clothes, she never would have been raped...why can't one liberal say "yes, we were wrong when we just to conclusions based on a clipped video, the old guy marched up to them to start shit, not the other way around". Instead, they are to be blamed because of waiting for a bus in a different location? Back at ya. I've said the Native guy was wrong to walk up to them. But they were wrong too. Why can't you admit they enjoyed stirring up shit? And saying "a different location" is so disingenuous and fools no one. They waited for their bus in a spot that put them in the middle of the demonstrations. Purposely.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 17:22:59 GMT -5
Had she not worn such slutty clothes, she never would have been raped...why can't one liberal say "yes, we were wrong when we just to conclusions based on a clipped video, the old guy marched up to them to start shit, not the other way around". Instead, they are to be blamed because of waiting for a bus in a different location? Back at ya. I've said the Native guy was wrong to walk up to them. But they were wrong too. Why can't you admit they enjoyed stirring up shit? And saying "a different location" is so disingenuous and fools no one. They waited for their bus in a spot that put them in the middle of the demonstrations. Purposely. I've just spent the last 10 minutes googling to find out where the boys were supposed to be standing (according to Andi). I have yet to find anything, conservative or liberal, that says the boys were not where they were supposed to be. One liberal article blamed the chaperones for not having them move once the black idiots start, but never said the boys were in a place they were not supposed to be. “Turn the other cheek,” would have been far better advice. “Ignore them. We’ll wait over here.”www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-perspec-zorn-covington-video-native-american-phillips-blame-0123-20190122-story.htmlCNN says they are standing their waiting for buses and they deserved it for wearing a hat But far more complete videos showed otherwise. Instead, it was Phillips, 64, who approached the teenagers; they had been standing there waiting for the buses that would take them back home. Phillips moved toward them while beating a drum and chanting; they did not move from their original positions. www.lifezette.com/2019/01/cnns-chris-cuomo-dismisses-covington-kids-as-victims-of-their-own-choices/So no, I will not admit that these kids are wrong when I cannot find anything they did wrong. Wearing a hat or a hoodie should not get someone attacked, taunted or anything else. The fact that a grown ass man decided to be an ass and go bang a drum in this kids face is getting glossed over by most. And the kid did a great job of not giving into it. He very calmly stood his ground. Now, if it were my kid I wouldn't want him/her anywhere near protests (I am not exactly the protesting kind of person, let alone when there are angry black people yelling, giving todays climate towards white people). But I would also be proud of him for not acting like an idiot like the adults.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 17:37:19 GMT -5
Wearing the hat was a taunt in the first place. It was not a random choice.
So you like the fact that the kid "stood up to him". The fact that the kids were being aggressive in ways you approve of does not make them any less aggressive. Wearing the hats, chanting the fight songs, standing "their" ground...it's all aggressive. You are proud of them for doing it. Fine. But you can give up on the dream of convincing anyone they were innocent victims.
That's actually something about Conservatives I find really strange. You admire being tough and standing your ground and all that stuff but deny you do it. What's with that?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 17:55:20 GMT -5
Wearing the hat was a taunt in the first place. It was not a random choice. So you like the fact that the kid "stood up to him". The fact that the kids were being aggressive in ways you approve of does not make them any less aggressive. Wearing the hats, chanting the fight songs, standing "their" ground...it's all aggressive. You are proud of them for doing it. Fine. But you can give up on the dream of convincing anyone they were innocent victims. That's actually something about Conservatives I find really strange. You admire being tough and standing your ground and all that stuff but deny you do it. What's with that? You didn’t provide any documentation that they were standing in the wrong place. You said they were in your teply to me. Were they or weren’t they I’m not denying they were standing their ground. I don’t believe the kids should have had to run away from the old man. He was the aggressor by going up to them. Why didn’t he go up to the black people who were yelling obscenities at the kids? I just had an asshole neighbor leave a threatening note and then yell at me over a parking spot. So I guess following your logic I should cower away and never park there again. Guess what, we didn’t move the car and told them it was public parking. I’m not going to be bullied by an idiot. But following your logic, because I stood my ground in the aggressor.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 11, 2019 18:00:57 GMT -5
IIRC, the kids weren't supposed to be there anyway. They were supposed to be waiting for their bus at a different location. Had they been following instructions, none of this would have happened. Had she not worn such slutty clothes, she never would have been raped...why can't one liberal say "yes, we were wrong when we just to conclusions based on a clipped video, the old guy marched up to them to start shit, not the other way around". Instead, they are to be blamed because of waiting for a bus in a different location? That's absolutely ridiculous. There is a huge difference between someone sexually assaulting someone else and someone beating on a deum in front of someone and not touching them. If you can't see that, there's something wrong. And I read an article where one of the boys involved explained in his own words what happened and admitted that they were not where they were supposed to be. I don't care enough about proving anything to you to go looking for it. You can believe me or not. Your argument is still ridiculous.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 18:04:53 GMT -5
Had she not worn such slutty clothes, she never would have been raped...why can't one liberal say "yes, we were wrong when we just to conclusions based on a clipped video, the old guy marched up to them to start shit, not the other way around". Instead, they are to be blamed because of waiting for a bus in a different location? That's absolutely ridiculous. There is a huge difference between someone sexually assaulting someone else and someone beating on a deum in front of someone and not touching them. If you can't see that, there's something wrong. And I read an article where one of the boys involved explained in his own words what happened and admitted that they were not where they were supposed to be. I don't care enough about proving anything to you to go looking for it. You can believe me or not. Your argument is still ridiculous. It’s really not though. They should be able to stand wherever they want without being harassed. No different than a woman walking down the street in revealing clothes getting cat called by idiots. Maybe if she didn’t dress so Slutty the men wouldn’t cat call. Or should the men just not cat call her? Because we can’t have it both ways.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 11, 2019 18:11:54 GMT -5
No they aren't. If they weren't protesting they shouldn't have been there. Since they were protesting they don't get to claim to be innocent victims. The hats and "fight songs" were provocative and they intended them to be. Own up to it. Ah. An if...then...else. Gotcha. I agree save for the fact that IMO they had no business protesting, unconditionally. At least their youthful activism bore plentiful fruit, bringing legions of formerly anti-Trump, anti-MAGA Americans into the pro-Trump, pro-MAGA fold without stirring up animosity and deepening political rifts even slightly. The transformative power of protests never ceases to amaze.
Doubtful. It would take far more than an old Indian man and a group of idiots wearing MAGA hats for anti-Trumpers to join the fold. Do you have a link?
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Mar 11, 2019 18:25:14 GMT -5
That's absolutely ridiculous. There is a huge difference between someone sexually assaulting someone else and someone beating on a deum in front of someone and not touching them. If you can't see that, there's something wrong. And I read an article where one of the boys involved explained in his own words what happened and admitted that they were not where they were supposed to be. I don't care enough about proving anything to you to go looking for it. You can believe me or not. Your argument is still ridiculous. It’s really not though. They should be able to stand wherever they want without being harassed. No different than a woman walking down the street in revealing clothes getting cat called by idiots. Maybe if she didn’t dress so Slutty the men wouldn’t cat call. Or should the men just not cat call her? Because we can’t have it both ways. That's not what you said. You likened their having a drum beaten in their faces to being physically sexually assaulted. There is no comparison. And I don't know about you, but I've had men cat call at me while wearing jeans and a t shirt. You ignore it and move on, just like these boys could have done. It's not being bullied. It's called not engaging. There's a huge difference just like there is between cat calling and rape.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 18:27:00 GMT -5
It’s really not though. They should be able to stand wherever they want without being harassed. No different than a woman walking down the street in revealing clothes getting cat called by idiots. Maybe if she didn’t dress so Slutty the men wouldn’t cat call. Or should the men just not cat call her? Because we can’t have it both ways. That's not what you said. You likened their having a drum beaten in their faces to being physically sexually assaulted. There is no comparison. And I don't know about you, but I've had men cat call at me while wearing jeans and a t shirt. You ignore it and move on, just like these boys could have done. It's not being bullied. It's called not engaging. There's a huge difference just like there is between cat calling and rape. Yes I did originally liken it to rape. Then I realized you were right Ok, if I’m standing somewhere and I start getting cat called, would you think it was my fault if I didn’t walk away? Or should them men not have cat called me in the first place?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 11, 2019 18:48:47 GMT -5
OK I will bite,, Why they shouldn't have been there? Because there was a Native American demonstration going on and their presence was a huge provocation, they ensured that by wearing the hats. They did not need to wait for their bus right there. hush, little lady. don't you know that white men can go anywhere they fucking please?
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 19:09:58 GMT -5
And the Native Americans should be able do their demonstration without being harassed. Beating the drum is no more menacing than wearing the hats. The boys wore the hats to make a statement. They wore them standing at the demonstration to make a statement. They were being as harassing as the drummer.
Give it up! The boys were not just standing there. For your analogy it's like a woman wearing a bikini into a construction sight and crying victim when the men catcall her.
I'm done discussing this. The boys were not innocently standing around minding their own business and you look foolish when you keep trying to say you believe they were.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 19:35:39 GMT -5
Wearing the hat was a taunt in the first place. It was not a random choice. So you like the fact that the kid "stood up to him". The fact that the kids were being aggressive in ways you approve of does not make them any less aggressive. Wearing the hats, chanting the fight songs, standing "their" ground...it's all aggressive. You are proud of them for doing it. Fine. But you can give up on the dream of convincing anyone they were innocent victims. That's actually something about Conservatives I find really strange. You admire being tough and standing your ground and all that stuff but deny you do it. What's with that? You didn’t provide any documentation that they were standing in the wrong place. You said they were in your teply to me. Were they or weren’t they I’m not denying they were standing their ground. I don’t believe the kids should have had to run away from the old man. He was the aggressor by going up to them. Why didn’t he go up to the black people who were yelling obscenities at the kids? I just had an asshole neighbor leave a threatening note and then yell at me over a parking spot. So I guess following your logic I should cower away and never park there again. Guess what, we didn’t move the car and told them it was public parking. I’m not going to be bullied by an idiot. But following your logic, because I stood my ground in the aggressor. I just saw this. I read the thing about your asshole neighbours. I think they should have approached you much nicer about parking in front of their house. But out of curiosity, why doesn't your daughter park in front of your house? I can see it being annoying having the neighbour park in front of your house all the time.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 11, 2019 19:52:40 GMT -5
Ah. An if...then...else. Gotcha. I agree save for the fact that IMO they had no business protesting, unconditionally. At least their youthful activism bore plentiful fruit, bringing legions of formerly anti-Trump, anti-MAGA Americans into the pro-Trump, pro-MAGA fold without stirring up animosity and deepening political rifts even slightly. The transformative power of protests never ceases to amaze.
Doubtful. It would take far more than an old Indian man and a group of idiots wearing MAGA hats for anti-Trumpers to join the fold. Do you have a link? It's sarcasm. Some think that because governments sometimes respond favourably to protests, so too do people's hearts and minds. I'm a hardened skeptic in this regard. The reactions in this thread are one more piece of evidence to add to the heap.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 20:02:48 GMT -5
You didn’t provide any documentation that they were standing in the wrong place. You said they were in your teply to me. Were they or weren’t they I’m not denying they were standing their ground. I don’t believe the kids should have had to run away from the old man. He was the aggressor by going up to them. Why didn’t he go up to the black people who were yelling obscenities at the kids? I just had an asshole neighbor leave a threatening note and then yell at me over a parking spot. So I guess following your logic I should cower away and never park there again. Guess what, we didn’t move the car and told them it was public parking. I’m not going to be bullied by an idiot. But following your logic, because I stood my ground in the aggressor. I just saw this. I read the thing about your asshole neighbours. I think they should have approached you much nicer about parking in front of their house. But out of curiosity, why doesn't your daughter park in front of your house? I can see it being annoying having the neighbour park in front of your house all the time. You can only park on one side of the street. No one can park on my side of the street. When she comes home from work she parks where something is open. It is street parking so first come, first served Is that really the point? Should we have backed down because he is lucky enough to have parking in front of his house but it is illegal to park in front of mine? Can he not just be wrong? Is everything an argument with you? If she didn’t lark in front of his house she would have had to park in front of someone else’s. Should she just not own a car?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 20:05:33 GMT -5
And the Native Americans should be able do their demonstration without being harassed. Beating the drum is no more menacing than wearing the hats. The boys wore the hats to make a statement. They wore them standing at the demonstration to make a statement. They were being as harassing as the drummer. Give it up! The boys were not just standing there. For your analogy it's like a woman wearing a bikini into a construction sight and crying victim when the men catcall her. I'm done discussing this. The boys were not innocently standing around minding their own business and you look foolish when you keep trying to say you believe they were. According to the liberals women should be able to wear whatever they want, go wherever they want and be left alone. You are victim shaming if you say a woman asked for it. I think you look foolish. That man walked right up to them to bang the drum right in their face. Yet they remained calm. A lot of people wouldn’t have. But you will forever think the boys were wrong because they are white, trump supporters.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 20:11:30 GMT -5
I thought you had parking in front of your house. That's why I asked.
Not an argument, but I do ask more questions to try to get the full picture. What you describe, he's wrong. On my street you can park on both sides and people tend to keep their company in front of their own homes unless it's a party and they need more space. People that park in front of other people's houses all the time are the jerks. But there are streets like that in Toronto near where my aunts live and like you say no one has claim to any part of the street parking, you just can't park in front of people's driveways.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 11, 2019 20:11:50 GMT -5
Doubtful. It would take far more than an old Indian man and a group of idiots wearing MAGA hats for anti-Trumpers to join the fold. Do you have a link? It's sarcasm. Some think that because governments sometimes respond favourably to protests, so too do people's hearts and minds. I'm a hardened skeptic in this regard. The reactions in this thread are one more piece of evidence to add to the heap. How are we to know when your excessive logorrhea is sarcasm? Perhaps one of these would suffice.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 11, 2019 20:15:54 GMT -5
No you don't. If you did you would stick to debating what I actually said instead of creating some fictional Liberals that apparently say women should be allowed to wear bikinis on constructions sites and cry victim when they are catcalled.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 20:18:27 GMT -5
Because there was a Native American demonstration going on and their presence was a huge provocation, they ensured that by wearing the hats. They did not need to wait for their bus right there. hush, little lady. don't you know that white men can go anywhere they fucking please? There were three groups there for protests and the Covington kids were there for the March for Life protest. So they had just as much right to be there as the other two groups. And the students were with their chaperones waiting for the bus so that tells me that they didn’t just pick that spot to stir up shit
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 11, 2019 20:20:23 GMT -5
No you don't. If you did you would stick to debating what I actually said instead of creating some fictional Liberals that apparently say women should be allowed to wear bikinis on constructions sites and cry victim when they are catcalled. I never said women should wear bikinis in a construction site. I said if a woman is standing there and being catcalled, based on what you are saying she should have to move. She is in the wrong not the person doing the cat calling. I really should learn not to waste my time in this board. White men bad, everyone else good. Got it
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